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How exactly is Doctor Doom related to this thread?
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See here.Most of it is good, but Doom's 3-C stuff needs to be edited (and other Doom stuff on his profile IMO needs to be settled).
For instance, @Eficiente pointed out why those Power Cosmic Doombots aren't even from Earth 616 Doom.
If the PC Doombots are not standard for 616 Doom due to not being from the 616 Universe we simply remove it.See here.
It would certainly make more sense for it to have its own CRT.It was about his tech/prep Tier wasn't ? Honestly at this point maybe a separate thread for Doom could be a better way to revise him
yeah, i agreeIt would certainly make more sense for it to have its own CRT.
Ok you say that, but don't cover at all any of the reasons I gave to cover the topic. I already know that everyone who wants that wants that, but they give nothing to give further value on that opinion.I’m still not in favor of giving Thor, Surfer, Hercules and BRB a “5-B while holding back” rating, let alone scaling other characters to 5-B for fighting them.
This was wrong before in the sense that I pointed out but it's even more wrong now that I pointed out here and here that "3-C normally, 2-C at peak" is nonsense as it refers to 1 thing. You can keep saying that they're like varies files all you want to defend your position, it sounds neat and it's hard to talk about due to being super vague, but it's wrong. I can break this down further if you yourself elaborate the meaning behind how Heralds are like a having a Variable tier by portraying just 2 states they're in. Or you could argue the matter on its own w/o needing to draw that comparison to discredit it.Agreed
Make a note of it and move on; the Heralds are basically varies files at this point despite not having grounds for one beyond “muh inconsistency”
I went over this. Statistically, in ways we can measure, this happens too little times to matter, and Thor has the ability to control his stats to justify it, which is not the same as the fact that most of the time he holds back he's 5-B.Yes, that is true, but he has been injured by tier 9 or 8 weapons or characters at times as well.
There was no reason to dismiss me there. Let me remind the information we have and don't have so far:True, but I was vehemently opposed by most of the Marvel fans here when I tried to argue for that.
Yes, there is no need for any follow-up discussion thread.Okay, so you both think that we have properly finished this revision, and do not need any follow-up discussion thread?
We should just wait for him for now.Hmm. The problem is that Eficiente is usually a very rational staff member who does a lot of research and has been of great help to me over the years, so it seems very inappropriate of me to not at least give him a chance to argue for his case in a new thread.
I'm currently working on compiling an ability restructuring revision for Thor, Hulk, and Doctor Doom, but it's coming along too slowly to be suitable for this thread. I'll make a new CRT later.Okay, so you both think that we have properly finished this revision, and do not need any follow-up discussion thread?
You immediately prove otherwise by saying things that are wrong and were talked about before though:At this point we are just having to repeat ourselves, but I don't really mind
No it isn't, in fact many profiles show 2 stats of characters with the first being what they mostly show in their story in a maybe restricted way and the second being something greater that they may be able to achive or be their true self, literally their peak at times. Again, 3-C and 2-C represent the same; their peak/not holding back, they don't switch from one and the other mid-story based on feeling like it or something.it's against the rules
This is wrong in 2 ways.ignores all other notes and explanations about their scaling
If you mean the notes and explanations not being enough then yes, and I gave reasons for it, I don't assume so.assuming they aren't enough
I don't ignore it, I judged it unproven because it's unproven, I judged it that 5-B was consistent based on all the showings I posted, and I clarified how Thor's ability to control his stats isn't the same as how we use a Varies tier.ignores Thor's variable power when holding back
Again, I don't ignore it, I showed evidence that makes that minimum in comparison to judge that 5-B was consistent.with multiple feats/scaling lower than 5-B
Again, it's not "variable power" in a way we would use it, it's in a way that is in fact about accuracy and consistency. There is nothing here for you to judge it as arbitrary, you only show that you don't like it. I can argue back anything that isn't vague feelings about this, one should be able to tell it's not hard., and pretends that scaling people to that variable power is about accuracy and consistency when it's massively arbitrary
I think I would like to add Thanos' fight with Odin as part of the justification for 2-C Thanos
Odin's tier is "Varies from 3-C to 2-A". And given what @Ehnkr2beboh pointed out, it'll be a weird justification for 2-C since it might be suggesting that Thanos is fighting 2-A OdinI think the Odin fight can be added, in the fight Odin straight up compares his power reserve to Thanos'. Their fight also was tearing apart Asgard
He praises his power to then say that his is better, that is meaningless. He also threw rocks at Thanos as he said that, which Thanos called base elements, which is another bit that shows Odin's going easy.in the fight Odin straight up compares his power reserve to Thanos'.
Of course we would when the scan shows some buildings getting destroyed there, there is no "probably" here, this is clear as water.Their fight also was tearing apart Asgard, though you can probably just interpret this as the Kingdom instead of the whole space.
Well, wid you read what's happening in the scans?Thanos has also threatened an Out of Realm Mephisto (up to 2-C), and made him run away (Infinity Crusade #6)
This is a helpless Mephisto Thanos is confident he can harm. It's not implied he would simply "follow Mephisto to his realm and squash him", but that in an unknown future Thanos would get his revenge in an unknown way (maybe w/ prep time) and in an unknown place (could be out of his realm), this tells us nothing of value.Thanos was also confident he could defeat Mephisto, and Warlock even implied he could follow Mephisto into this realm and squash him, though these are from Infinity Finale, which I'm not sure we see as canon.
She took a weaker form as it says there and as that small fairy can harm her also. I'm pretty sure she can choose to use her higher powers if prepared.Thanos also defeated Kosmos (Thanos #10), and while I know we don't automatically give Cosmic Cubes tiers, Kosmos is considered to be capable of contracting the Universe in this run (Thanos #8).
I support this.I'm currently working on compiling an ability restructuring revision for Thor, Hulk, and Doctor Doom, but it's coming along too slowly to be suitable for this thread. I'll make a new CRT later.
Yeah me too .I support this.
Well, I do wish for it to be included somehowAs I said before I don't really want to argue about any of this, but while I wont be addressing anything Eficiente said (even though I still disagree with pretty much all of it), I do agree with what @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer pointed out, Odin varies from 3-C to 2-A, so he could really be at any of those levels, making the feat really hard to quantify. Granted I'm not sure if Odin's minimum being below Peak Thor makes sense, but as his page stands nothing there really isn't anything to support 2-C.
I don't mind, but I don't think we are going to see new arguments for both sides, only more members being involved and I guess that's how we are going to decide this, so yeah, a new thread for that might be the best optionHmm. The problem is that Eficiente is usually a very rational staff member who does a lot of research and has been of great help to me over the years, so it seems very inappropriate of me to not at least give him a chance to argue for his case in a new thread.
So, we're all good to move this into another thread?
It seems good to me at least.I don't mind, but I don't think we are going to see new arguments for both sides, only more members being involved and I guess that's how we are going to decide this, so yeah, a new thread for that might be the best option
Is there anything left to do besides this? If not, please make the new thread and lock this one.I think that Eficiente makes sense above.
It seems good to me at least.
That was me, but I already said it's coming along too slowly to be currently relevant. I'll let everyone know when I'm done, which won't be for quite a while.Didn't someone say they were gonna make a Doom, Thor, and Hulk CRT or sandbox?