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Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree
- Thread starter NaturalDestroyer
- Start date
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Also neutral on Godzilla
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I remember Lobo (Afaik) being listed with a Varies with the explanation being quite literally and directly "Too inconsistent to be rated properly", then he had a 4-B at peak for his best showings. I know, Varies is only for certain cases, but maybe we can open an exception for Marvel and DC ? Some characters would be far easier to work with that. However, that doesn't really change much on my list, who shouldn't scale to 2-C still won't scale
Btw, after the recent comments, can you guys point who in my list stops scaling/starts scaling to 2-C at peak ? This is important to keep track on so we don't lose ourselves again
About Godzilla, I'll avoid staying neutral and side with Tracer and Apex, if Hercules had to go absolutely serious, it should at least grant him a "Likely 2-C at peak"
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2-C godzilla makes more sense to me. He pretty much ragdolled the avengers for a while, forced hercules to get serious, matched thor and thor compared it to the midgard serpent even if you say it's only by the way they act (which in my opinion is downplay but i don't give enough of a dime atm to argue against it)
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That’s not a precedent we should be setting. The Varies tier only exists for characters whose power level changes for canonical reasons. If a character is inconsistently portrayed, that’s not an excuse for a Varies tier, it means we need to put in more effort to find the proper tier for them.
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Strongly agreed with this sentiment, especially for Marvel Comics where a clear scale of established power levels exist.
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Okay, so if we disagree with this notion, how about we focus here only on giving the "2-C at peak" rating to those who deserve it (with the current accepted scaling) and leave the lower tiers to another thread ? This is being delayed long enough
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I wouldn't say "delayed" (and this is coming from someone who is usually not very patient). We just want the most accurate results, and this is a massive verse-wide scaling change.
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Also, for Doom, would it just be possible to remove the low-end of his prep and say that it goes up to 2-A?
Since a bunch of his 2-C stuff is being questioned, he'll likely still have a few 2-C tech/prep feats but nowhere near the amount of 2-A stuff already on his profile, so it may be best to just remove the 3-C/2-C low end entirely.
Kind of like what we did to Odin.
Since a bunch of his 2-C stuff is being questioned, he'll likely still have a few 2-C tech/prep feats but nowhere near the amount of 2-A stuff already on his profile, so it may be best to just remove the 3-C/2-C low end entirely.
Kind of like what we did to Odin.
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Sure
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This is the list of characters that may or may not scale, right?
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I understand, but we need more focus aswell, no reason to start yet another complicated topic over the current scaling if that can be discussed on a specific Thread, it helps both sides to debate better (The 2-C ratings would be applied and taken into consideration when re-doing some holding back scaling, don't you think that's vital ?)
That works for me yeah
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Yes.
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Actually only half of it
Here is the full list (on the end)
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Alright then, time for me to question a lot of these.
Both Thor and Jane were stated to be enraged while going against Apocalypse, which would be a point against them holding back.
Fair enough.
Nope, 1/2 PF Emma scales to 1/2 PF Cyclops who absolutely scales above Thor. She scales. Her 1/5 PF key not scaling is fine.
Juggernaut threw hands with Green Scar Hulk, there’s an argument to be made for him scaling.
As mentioned before, there was no probable chance of Thor defeating 1/2 PF Cyclops, as stated by two of the smartest characters in the verse, so that key scales.
I’ve already discussed why Godzilla scales, and while the Midgard Serpent doesn’t have a page, it absolutely scales to peak Thor. In Thor Vol. 1 #278, Thor was only able to weaken the Serpent, not kill it, while striking it multiple times, and one of those blows was stated to be possibly be greater than any blow Thor has struck before.
Could argue against this, considering that Ultron has beat the tar out of Thor on multiple occasions.
Executioner should scale, he’s pretty blatantly overpowering BRB.
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Jane has no 2-C scaling and they were on Earth, I'm completely against Full Power Thor on Earth when it's stated that he never uses said Full Power here, unless he performs a feat of such scale during a fight on Earth
Yeah some of their keys scale and some don't
And lost, and Hulk also has a Varies tier and wasn't at peak rage, and that’s the key issue: him stating to not be holding back doesn't mean 2-C when that rating varies with rage, not by how serious Hulk is or was. Also, consider Juggernaut's scaling besides this fight
Those fights listed on the profile are on Earth
Who also holds back, but since it isn't stated to be like Thor, I don't mind him scaling, but I do think it should be a Likely or a Possibly, since BRB being at his peak there is a possibility but not something granted
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Absolutely not, we are not changing Thor to a Varies tier without a canonical reason for him to vary.
Cosmic Ghost Rider doesn’t have a hold back thing, so there’s no reason to assume he’s not at his peak, especially when your only reasoning against it is “I doubt”.
Considering the discussion about Hercules and Godzilla, just being on Earth should not prevent someone from scaling to 2-C.
We’re not giving every single character that scales an ‘at peak’ rating, that doesn’t make any logical sense.
I believe someone already explained why Mangog would scale.
Being on Earth does not and should not invalidate 2-C.
Oh, it does have a page. Well, I explained why it does scale to peak Thor earlier.
Thanos does not vary, as far as I’m aware, so…
I’ve already explained my stance on the Earth scaling, but the Model 22 is directly powered by a gem that channels Mjolnir’s power, and it was able to absorb and redirect Thor’s powers back at him. It scales.
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So seven pages and you guys don't even agreed on if it's 2-C at peak or just plain 2-C ? Oof
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Cosmic Ghost Rider does say that he holds back a lot, though
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Okay, that’s good then.
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Certain characters can have 2-C at peak, but it shouldn’t be applied to literally everyone.
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So we'll need a list to who hs that and who doesn't
Well, one good example that I can think now is Ego: Thor stated that he can't defeat him, that's counting on his peak power, which should make Ego plain and simple 2-C
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I was reading Thor Vol. 1 #278 and it was stated this:
Mjolnir had no the power to destroy the Midgar Serpent and perhaps never before in a thousand eternities has such a blow been struck.
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Jane not being 2-C is… weird, but whatever. I’ve already explained why I disagree with the notion that Thor cannot be 2-C on Earth, especially when he’s getting the absolute shit kicked out of him and it’d be stupid and actively detrimental to hold back in such a scenario.
See reasons above.
If BRB is getting his cheeks clapped and not putting up a good fight, I think a full rating is completely warranted.
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Thanos is another example of someone who doesn’t need it, because he has consistently annihilated Silver Surfer and Thor
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I think that the 2-C Godzilla looks fine too -w-'
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I still think that not officially acknowledging Marvel's very extreme degrees of inconsistency for these characters is extremely misleading for our visitors, and also impractical, as pretending that Thor is usually portrayed as tier 3-C will lead to lots of characters, such as Wonder Man, Thing, and Colossus, also scaling to this tier. He genuinely usually varies between 5-B and 2-C depending on the writer and the opponents they have in mind.
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I thought his Explanations section already somewhat addresses this, but I guess maybe more stuff can be added onto it?
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Well, we should probably briefly mention that the real world reason is just that the different writers have very different ideas regarding how powerful Thor is, and I also have second thoughts about getting rid of his "5-B when holding back immensely in Earthly settings" tier, given that it might create a scaling mess.
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Most users including LordTracer agree with it, so it should be fine scaling Godzilla from the Midgard Serpent.
The Midgard Serpent scales from Peak Thor and the proof is the scan I posted above.
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Oh, I’m neutral on Godzilla scaling to the Serpent, I just think they both scale to peak Hercules and Thor, respectively.
Hasty12345
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I’m still of the opinion characters should only scale to 2-C if they themselves have 2-C feats, or have an incredibly strong reason to scale them to that rating. This principle I believe should also extend to 3-C tiered characters, it characters don’t have 3-C feats, they need a really good reason to scale them to 3-C.
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Oops, my bad...I misunderstood your comments.
I'm neutral on Godzilla scaling to the Serpent too. But certanly Godzilla scaling from Hercules is something sure.
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Excellence616
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