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Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree
- Thread starter NaturalDestroyer
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How is the statement 2-C again?
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From what I understand, the statement says that the Big Bang formed universes
Stefano4444
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That its actually a good point, between the Negative Zone and the Nine Realms the entirety of Earth-616's reality/timeline should count as a 2-C structure.
Similar to how an entire timeline in Dragon Ball count as 2-C due of be made by multiple separated universes.
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How about 3-A, possibly 2-C or "3-A to 2-C".
But would the 3-A actually be high 3-A since the Marvel Universe is infinite?
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Thor's feat of shaking the universe is taken as 4-A or 3-C, so I don't think Infinite Marvel Universe is accepted (otherwise, it would be High 3-A)
About the structure, do we have scans of Negative Zone having a different, separate time-space ? Some Universal structures are just higher into 3-A when the realms have no proof of having their own timeline
About the structure, do we have scans of Negative Zone having a different, separate time-space ? Some Universal structures are just higher into 3-A when the realms have no proof of having their own timeline
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For the heralds that shall have a 2-C rating, my take is:That is correct, yes, but we still need to determine which characters that can reliably be scaled to their 2-C peak portrayals.
See here for useful character lists that can be used to investigate:
Antvasima/DPL
vsbattles.fandom.com
- They must have their own feats near or at 2-C level (3-A or above, let's say)
- They must consistently fight a "2-C at peak" Herald when both were absolutely serious and going all out without some common restrictions (Like Thor fighting on Earth)
I say this because, again, Thor can be anywhere between 3-C and 2-C, and it's rather arbitrary to pinpoint his power output sometimes, so to avoid inconsistent 2-Cs, we should be careful to who scales
I'll message KLOL and other staff to help
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This seems like a good starting point to further reduce the headaches with Herald-scaling.
Though Hulk and Sentry would be exceptions to this and they can thus retain the 5-B scaling because they genuinely have statements on that level when they're at their worst mentally-speaking, and becasue they have a true "Varies" mechanism where their power level explicitly depends on their mental state.
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I would personally much prefer if we scale from the other evidence instead, as the Big Bang was calculated to contain far less than 3-A energy in the old cosmological models.
I would appreciate input from @DontTalkDT about this though.
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Well, I think that we used some explicit statement about the MU's size, but that Confluctor created a revision thread to adjust it to infinite size later. I do not remember if that went anywhere though.
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I think that your take above seems sensible. Thank you for helping out.
Technically, Thor can be anywhere from tier 9 to tier 1 depending on the story though.
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I think it was put on hold so that the others could make a more definitive version explicitly for Marvel because the CRT at the time conjoined both DC and Marvel.
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Okay then, if you guys are fine with my suggestion, let's take the next step:
- Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Sentry, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Hercules and Hyperion are the currently accepted 2-Cs, right ? These are the owners of the accepted feats on that list
From this, I believe the Heralds that are likely to scale are:
Only took the Tier 5/3 overlaps, there are more people to talk about, but it's a first step anyway
- Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Sentry, Hulk, Silver Surfer, Hercules and Hyperion are the currently accepted 2-Cs, right ? These are the owners of the accepted feats on that list
From this, I believe the Heralds that are likely to scale are:
- Apocalypse (Marvel Comics) = Disagree, his 3-C scaling comes from Thor on Earth (I absolutely disagree with Thor using that level of power on earth when it's stated that he doesn't use his full power here numerous times)
- Namor (Marvel Comics) = Disagree, his 3-C scaling mentions a weakened Thor and Red Hulk, who varies a lot in power and it's arbitrary to say he was at 2-C power at that point
- The Sentry = Already accepted
- Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
- Thor (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
- Hulk (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
- Beta Ray Bill = Already accepted
- Colossus (Marvel Comics) = Disagree with every key, as he fough a weakened Thor on Earth, the last one depends on Juggernaut, who also has a Varies that doesn't depend on himself and only fought Thor on Earth
- Emma Frost = Disagree, again, weakened Thor on Earth and only a brief fight against a non peak Hulk
- Red Hulk = Equal to Hulk I guess, should scale
- Loki (Marvel Comics) (Classic) = Agree, matched Silver Surfer and Thor numerous times, although in his case it's magic only
- She-Hulk = Unsure how we scale Devil Hulk, but her being comparable to Thor isn't about his Peak Power so unlikely, I guess
- Onslaught = Agree, Hulk was apparently at his peak or close to it
- Juggernaut (Marvel Comics) = Already explained above, Disagree
- The Champion of the Universe = Agree, defeated two of the 2-Cs here and overpowered Thanos
- Cyclops (Marvel Comics) = Some of his keys only have feats against Weakened Thor on Earth, but the other one is apparently enough to scale
- Red She-Hulk = Unsure, her only scaling is to Devil Hulk, which I don't know how it will work
- Magik (Marvel Comics) = Disagree, Weakened Thor on Earth
- Mindless Ones (Marvel) = Agree, harming Ego puts them above Thor by his own words
- Latveria = Wielding the Power Cosmic alone isn't enough for 2-C
- Kobik = Doesn't scale to any 2-C
- Maestro = Agree, same as The Hulk
- Godzilla (Marvel Comics) = Equal to the Midgard Serpeant who doesn't scale to Peak Thor as far as I know
- Wakanda (Marvel Comics) = Scaling to Silver Surfer's max power, so I guess so
- Drax the Destroyer (Marvel Comics) = His current self is a no no, his Classic self should have a "Likely 2-C at peak" considering his Thanos scaling, I wouldn't use his SS scaling since Norrin wasn't fighting at peak (Didn't had a reason to aswell)
- Genis-Vell = Agree, not that complicated
- Ultron (Marvel Comics) Okay, so his first key shouldn't scale as his feats against Thor are on Earth (2-C Thor on earth is not reasonable at all), his second key is scaled to Sentry, so I guess it's okay if he was at peak mental condition, his third key is scaled to Adam Warlock's third key I think, who is scaled to Silver Surfer, should be enough for a "2-C at peak", if Norrin was going all out
- Kurse (Waziria) = I guess so ? It has scaling to The Destroyer
- Iron Man Armor Model 37 = Disagree, it's scaling to Mokk who doesn't scale to Peak Thor
- Doctor Doom = Numerous scalings to other 2-Cs and scaling to even stuff beyond that, absolutely agree
- Executioner (Marvel Comics) = Unsure, but doesn't seem to be pushing Thor or BRB to their limits
- Hercules (Marvel Comics) = Already accepted
- Daimon Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Seems fine, has numerous scalings against already accepted 2-Cs
- Satana Hellstrom (Marvel Comics) = Already is 2-C
- Jane Foster (Marvel Comics) = Same as Thor as...Thor, her 2nd key shouldn't have "2-C at peak" since Thor wasn't at his best
- Cassandra Nova (Marvel Comics) = Her scaling is only a Possibly already, so I also Disagree
- Exodus (Marvel Comics) = Isn't 3-C to begin with
Only took the Tier 5/3 overlaps, there are more people to talk about, but it's a first step anyway
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Sounds about right (although didn't Juggernaut fight WW Hulk)?
Also, I feel like Wakanda's Silver Surfer thing is honestly way too weird and should likely be removed.
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Now this I like and fully agree with.
The dude openly recreated a portion of the Power Cosmic to give to Terrax which he himself said was on par with what the Silver Surfer had, he recreated the Destroyer Armor which then overpowered base Thor, and IMO he has a lot for his durability without prep to scale to 2-C.
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This looks miles better than anything else before it. Good job.
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Life saver
Excellence616
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These Hulks shouldn't scale to hulk.
Excellence616
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Then what of Gladiator?
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Personally, I disagree with 2-C scaling for these characters, but if everyone else is fine with it, then I guess it should be ok
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Does Gladiator have any consistent 2-C powerscaling or non-powerscaling 2-C feats?
Excellence616
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Gladiator Vs Thor | Thor Vol 2 #36
Gladiator Vs Thor | Thor Vol 1 #445
Gladiator Vs Hulk | Incredible Hulk Annual 1997
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That is Eric Masterson Thor, who has constantly been stated to be weaker than Thor Odinson
Thor was fighting on Earth and holding back, until the end, and later Gladiator said that Thor was too strong
Hulk is keeping his Varies power mechanism, so chances are this will only be accepted as 5-B powerscaling
Excellence616
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I'm interested, can you tell me your reasons ?
I didn't kept up with Jane's Thor arc, don't know much about her scaling
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It's the Marvel "everybody can fight everybody" thing that was brought up several times. I'm just not in full support of JF Thor and Waziria scaling to only two 2-C characters without it being more consistent, such as fighting those 2-C characters more than once / having their own non-scaling feats or statements on that level, or just... something more than 4-A
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I see, well I agree with you then
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Lightning's suggested scaling above largely seems to make sense to me, but should we really scale individual Mindless Ones nearly that high? During Dormammu's recent invasion of the main Marvel universe, even average-powered superheroes were able to defeat them, and I have some vague memories of The Thing and similarly powerful characters having successfully held their own against them previously as well.
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We could just say that only the Classic Mindless Ones are that strong, just like how Classic Dormammu is separated from his modern version.
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Godzilla currently scales from Hercules not the Midgard Serpent.
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BumpWe have, i have around 9 feats that put thor within the range of 2-C (that being said, if anyone has solid Universal feats for heralds please put them here)
I am now, asking someone knowledgeable to write a list everytime heralds have kept up with 2-C guys
I beg you people, this is my 4th post
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I begrudgingly suppose so, but would prefer if we scale from the other feats instead.
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