Marvel Comics - Thor Shaking the Realms of the World Tree

[Hasty12345]

Oh God we may have to remove 3-C from the Herald Tiers.

I don’t see why or how all Heralds somehow scale to Thor’s peak. Sorry if I’m misinterpreting your comment here.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Probably 4-B again.

That is, unless we use the few 3-c feats not connected to Thor/Surfer:

• Suzanne Selby mentions that she will set fire to the entire Shi'ar galaxy
• It could cause a universal armageddon according to Silver Surfer.
• Firelord claims that Star Brand can melt the stars along with everything else in the heavens.
• Black Bolt defeated Sphinx, who claimed to be able to destroy a galaxy with thought.
• For Beta Ray Bill, a side effect of their battle with Stardust, they shook the universe by darkening the stars and knocking the planets out of their orbits.

Also, if Silver Surfer gets 2-C...so does Doctor Doom's low-end of his prep/tech since a pretty big chunk of it is from Silver Surfer scaling.

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Shouldn't Godzilla scale since he's fought a serious Hercules?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I can see the ratings being (3-C up to High 3-A, likely 2-C when serious)

 

[Excellence616]

I can see the ratings being (3-C up to High 3-A, likely 2-C when serious)

Or 3-C, up to High 3-A, likely 2-C when serious, up to 2-A at peak

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

As long as Thor gets upgraded, I'm happy

 

[ObberGobb]

It seems to me that 2-C is pretty consistent with the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C as support. Couldn't that just replace the 3-C rating? So the Herald Tier rating will be "5-B when holding back, 2-C normally."

 

[Stefano4444]

It seems to me that 2-C is pretty consistent with the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C as support. Couldn't that just replace the 3-C rating? So the Herald Tier rating will be "5-B when holding back, 2-C normally."

Agree, or if not then it would be better if the High 3-A feats are used to support 2-C rather than add another tier, so something like this:

"5-B when holding back, up to 3-C, possibly/likely 2-C at full power."

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

It seems to me that 2-C is pretty consistent with the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C as support. Couldn't that just replace the 3-C rating? So the Herald Tier rating will be "5-B when holding back, 2-C normally."

I though we were getting rid of the holding back part as per @KLOL506

 

[ObberGobb]

Personally, I think having three tiers is a bit much. The 5-B/3-C split is already kinda arbitrary, but a 3-C/2-C split would be even worse.

 

[Hasty12345]

no one who doesn't have their own tier 2 feat should have anything near tier 2 in their AP description, as far as I can tell, Thor, Hulk, Silver Surfer (maybe) and Sentry are the only characters who seem to need an upgrade.

 

[Stefano4444]

Our current focus here seems to be to find extra feats to justify Thor's 2-C tier, as well as see if any other Marvel superhero characters have High 3-A to 2-C level feats that we can scale their upper maximums from.

Speaking about this, didn't Hulk once contained enough energy to destroy two universes in his body?

Also there its Hyperion infamous feat or surviving two universes colliding to each other, although i'm unsure if that feats its Low 2-C or 2-C.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Also there its Hyperion infamous feat or surviving two universes colliding to each other, although i'm unsure if that feats its Low 2-C or 2-C.

That one is accepted as 2-C

 

[Stefano4444]

no one who doesn't have their own tier 2 feat should have anything near tier 2 in their AP description, as far as I can tell, Thor, Hulk, Silver Surfer (maybe) and Sentry are the only characters who seem to need an upgrade.

And what about characters who had been consistently show to be comparable or if not stronger than them?

 

[Hasty12345]

And what about characters who had been consistently show to be comparable or if not stronger than them?

different threads problem

 

[KLOL506]

I though we were getting rid of the holding back part as per @KLOL506

We definitely should be axing the "holding back" parts for good because it arbitrarily holds back Thor and co. to a level of the lower-tier peeps for absolutely no reason at all, literally no one other than the Hulk and Sentry in the Heralds gang have an actual legitimate "Varies" mechanism (Hulk has his anger, Sentry has his mental state), we have explicity rules of not making "Varies" keys if they don't have it.

 

[KLOL506]

And what about characters who had been consistently show to be comparable or if not stronger than them?

Depends on whether said characters were fighting full-power/not-holding-back Thor.

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm also against "at peak" ratings, they're so gross.

 

[Eseseso]

I support axing the Holding Back part, especially sinc we're probably gonna have 2-A stuff so we don't need 4 tiers

 

[Excellence616]

no one who doesn't have their own tier 2 feat should have anything near tier 2 in their AP description, as far as I can tell, Thor, Hulk, Silver Surfer (maybe) and Sentry are the only characters who seem to need an upgrade.

I totally agree with this. Before we start seeing characters like she hulk, captain marvel, at high 3-A and Tier 2

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I totally agree with this. Before we start seeing characters like she hulk, captain marvel, at high 3-A and Tier 2

She-Hulk may still get affected by this upgrade, since Hercules' Infinite LS feat would scale to her, unless that section of her Lifting Strength gets axed

Handled The Thing's maximum lifting capacity with a single arm when her strength was restrained by a "Jupiter suit" and was shown as stronger than Hercules in an arm-wrestling competition, when in a calm state

 

[KLOL506]

She-Hulk may still get affected by this upgrade, since Hercules' Infinite LS feat would scale to her, unless that section of her Lifting Strength gets axed

Confluctor told me that Herc's feat would not scale to him, though he didn't elaborate why, I'll ask him.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Hercules scaling to She Hulk is a definite outlier. She shouldn't be anywhere as strong as someone who consistently matches Thor

 

[KLOL506]

Confluctor told me that Herc's feat would not scale to him, though he didn't elaborate why, I'll ask him.

NVM, he told me that Herc lifted it only for a moment, so this'd be his peak scaling.

 

[Excellence616]

Hercules scaling to She Hulk is a definite outlier. She shouldn't be anywhere as strong as someone who consistently matches Thor

Thank you. That's exactly why. That feat is a massive outlier. Her strength was even limited at that point. Stronger than Hercules who can consistently match Thor and Hulk. Just plot at work.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

NVM, he told me that Herc lifted it only for a moment, so this'd be his peak scaling.

Ok. Not to mention Herc did it pretty casually and offered to do it for three hours

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Ok. Not to mention Herc did it pretty casually and offered to do it for three hours

That's definitely a casual lifting feat. Agreed

 

[NHTkenshin2]

It seems to me that 2-C is pretty consistent with the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C as support. Couldn't that just replace the 3-C rating? So the Herald Tier rating will be "5-B when holding back, 2-C normally."

Brother, do you understand what war we have to fight to get solid 2-C?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then

Thank you for being reasonable.

Oh God we may have to remove 3-C from the Herald Tiers.

That seems unnecessary. Let's try to not get out of hand with the random wild revision attempts here that will likely completely mess up our scaling.

Im still confused, the realms are 4D in nature, thor shook them, that should qualify as affecting a 2-C structure

Only shaking the physical space of them without further specifications, much like the Hulk feat in the Crossroads nexus.

Also doesn't this debunk the current 2-C world engine feat? Because we could make the assumption that thor moved the 3D space of the realms?

No, he explicitly affected their timelines.

As well as alot of 2-C feats on here

This is wild side-tracking. I cannot be expected to properly analyze and answer for lots of verses that I know very little about.

Ah alright sorry, i guess it will be a 3-B - 3-A supporting feat

I do not recall which feat that we are talking about here. Sorry.

Well, the entire comic is thor doing some wild shit, but if it is iffy then alright maybe we cant use this

Thank you for being reasonable.

I am asking why Yggdrasil isnt always portrayed as having 2-C durability.

The feat in question is from Thor: Man of war

Also, as far as i am concerned almost every showing of Yggdrasil shows it as a structure that contains or “holds" 9 realms, i do not understand how it doesn't have 2-C durability at the least

Well, maybe I misremember, but isn't it usually possible to damage small parts of the tree for regular Asgardians? Anyway, I think that I mentioned earlier that damaging Yggdrasil can probably be a supporting feat for Thor.

I am sorry man that is just intentionally dismissing the statement for no reason, the scan states three times that stardust and BRB were going to destroy the universe, the heavens and “Everything" even the Ad of the 3rd issue states that BRB was “shaking the heavens" which is commonly used for shaking the universe

I dont believe this is a hyperbole

If reliable statements are provided within a comic book story itself, that can often be used, but the previews for upcoming stories that are released several months in advance are just written in order to sell as many copies of each comic book issue as possible without spoiling what is going to happen too much, and as such they are usually filled with hyperbole, misleading information, or outright lies. They are even less reliable than offhanded Twitter replies from authors that do not own the characters that others ask about.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate if we can all try to stay on topic here, not waste either my limited available time or that of others by being unnecessarily argumentative, and strictly focus on finding an listing the most reliable available feats for upgrading the upper limits of certain superhero characters.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Alright then, thank you for evaluating the feats.

 

[Eseseso]

That seems unnecessary. Let's try to not get out of hand with the random wild revision attempts here that will likely completely mess up our scaling.

90% of the 3-C stuff comes from Thor, Silver Surfer, or Sentry, who is equal to Thor.

Also, if Surfer is 2-C then the low end of Doom's tech/prep should be 2-C as well since a lot of his low-end prep and his strongest Doombots scale to the Silver Surfer.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

The sentry has a WOG of being capable of destroying a universe by the way

The Sentry can destroy a universe | Paul Jenkins word of god

 

[Antvasima]

Suzanne Selby mentions that she will set fire to the entire Shi'ar galaxy

That seems like an unproven threat to me.https://imgur.com/a/WMVWsC1

It could cause a universal armageddon according to Silver Surfer.

Well, the Surfer tends to be reliable, but we do not know the timeframe involved. Then again, the complete main Marvel Universe is much larger than our real world observable universe.

Firelord claims that Star Brand can melt the stars along with everything else in the heavens.

In itself this is not very reliable, as it is rather unspecific, but I suppose that it strengthens the earlier claim.

Maybe Possibly/Likely 3-A would work for The Starbrand then?

• Black Bolt defeated Sphinx, who claimed to be able to destroy a galaxy with thought.

I cannot see this scan when I click on it.

For Beta Ray Bill, a side effect of their battle with Stardust, they shook the universe by darkening the stars and knocking the planets out of their orbits.

That fits with what regular Thor can do, yes, and Beta Ray Bill has equal power to him. The preview text in itself is not reliable though. Only the parts that were provided as narration within the story itself.

I think that we can use this feat in any case.

Also, if Silver Surfer gets 2-C...so does Doctor Doom's low-end of his prep/tech since a pretty big chunk of it is from Silver Surfer scaling.

Please remind me about the Silver Surfer's 2-C feat(s).

 

[Antvasima]

Honestly, just make him 3-C, up to 2-A at his absolute peak since adding more tiers in the middle looks like an eyesore imo.

We need explicit 2-A feats for that though, not just powerscaling. My apologies, but I think that Thor's current tiering is appropriate, given how inconsistent Marvel Comics is in general.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems to me that 2-C is pretty consistent with the 3-A/High 3-A/Low 2-C as support. Couldn't that just replace the 3-C rating? So the Herald Tier rating will be "5-B when holding back, 2-C normally."

That would mess up the tiering of virtually all other 3-C Marvel characters that scale from him, as far as I am aware.

I am afraid that we all need to accept that Marvel Comics is extremely inconsistent, particularly in terms of power levels, and move on in that regard. Our current tiering is the best that we have managed to do to find a balanced approach, and I would appreciate if we do not mess things up in that regard.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

That fits with what regular Thor can do, yes, and Beta Ray Bill has equal power to him. The preview text in itself is not reliable though. Only the parts that were provided as narration within the story itself.

I think that we can use this feat in any case.

By the way, the feat in question is the stardust vs BRB feat that i brought up, you disagreed with earlier because it was an advertisement blurb, do you agree with it now that there is a statement given by asteroth?

 

[Antvasima]

Speaking about this, didn't Hulk once contained enough energy to destroy two universes in his body?

During the Heroes Reborn and Heroes Return events, he acted as a nexus between them, and was constantly absorbing energy from the one created by Franklin Richards at least.

Also there its Hyperion infamous feat or surviving two universes colliding to each other, although i'm unsure if that feats its Low 2-C or 2-C.

I already accepted that as a 2-C feat.

 

[Antvasima]

We definitely should be axing the "holding back" parts for good because it arbitrarily holds back Thor and co. to a level of the lower-tier peeps for absolutely no reason at all, literally no one other than the Hulk and Sentry in the Heralds gang have an actual legitimate "Varies" mechanism (Hulk has his anger, Sentry has his mental state), we have explicity rules of not making "Varies" keys if they don't have it.

I am afraid that we have to keep it, or we would nearly completely blow up the water dam that holds back/prevents the tsunami of chain-scaling all Marvel characters to each other due to that the verse is easily one of the most inconsistent and incoherent ones ever created in that regard.

It isn't like we are claiming that Thor isn't really 2-C at his peak. We are just adapting to that the Marvel editors have largely not known what the heck they are doing over the years, and as such have to avoid having all 5-B and 3-C characters scaling to 2-C, most other Marvel Comics characters scaling to them in one way or another, and Thor and the Surfer themselves scaling to various cosmic entities.

A statement to most of the participants here:

I would very greatly appreciate if we could all get on the same page with following our rules in this regard and trying to be responsible in accurately portraying the actually displayed tiering for the characters, rather than just irresponsibly aiming for the highest tiers possible via chain-scaling, as I REALLY don't have the available time and energy to constantly singlehandedly try to act as a voice of reason and thinking of the actual consequences in this regard. Marvel Comics does NOT function like most other of our featured verses AT ALL. We have to be much more careful in how we evaluate the scaling if we are going to be able to even feature it in our wiki, and without Impress and Confluctor here to help me prevent a general tiering disaster for this verse, you are all greatly wearing me down.

 

[Antvasima]

She-Hulk may still get affected by this upgrade, since Hercules' Infinite LS feat would scale to her, unless that section of her Lifting Strength gets axed

She-Hulk was not at her regular power level at the time. She had been weight-training for several months, and turned just a tiny bit less powerful than the Hulk according to her writer, Dan Slott. She was explicitly intended to be even more powerful than Hercules overall at the time.

However, since she was powered down to her usual level afterwards, we should probably get rid of her temporary power-up statistics, and instead simply mention that she can get exponentially more powerful in her She-Hulk form by just weight-training and intensely exercising in her Jennifer Walters form for several months.

 

[Antvasima]

NVM, he told me that Herc lifted it only for a moment, so this'd be his peak scaling.

That seems fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright then, thank you for evaluating the feats.

No problem. Thank you for being reasonable.

90% of the 3-C stuff comes from Thor, Silver Surfer, or Sentry, who is equal to Thor.

Also, if Surfer is 2-C then the low end of Doom's tech/prep should be 2-C as well since a lot of his low-end prep and his strongest Doombots scale to the Silver Surfer.

Yes. I do not have a problem with that.

I have a problem with if we remove the different "holding back" (it is recurrently rationalised this way within the verse, but it is really just extremely inconsistent writing) tier levels, so lots of other characters would scale to 2-C (or 2-A if we use that suggested change as well), and we would set a terrible precedent in that regard, so we would eventually end up with tier 1-A aunt May if we continued with the chain-scaling trend.