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Marvel Comics: Possible Yggdrasil Upgrade (Staff only)

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@Antvsima What Dr.Strange said about "galaxies", don't change what was said about the multiverse. "I sense a great upheaval which is tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse" Strange was talking about the threat of Seth to Yggdrasil. In this context, Yggdrasil is the nexus of "all planes"

Exist others configuration and religions, but them are encompassed by "Celestial Axis|World Axis" that have many manifestation, which is Yggdrasil. Erik only talk considering the "myth" of norse gods about "9 realms". Yggdrasil have nine realms? Yes, but not only Nine Realms. Nine Realms is the Norse Configuration Classic, that was disregarded even in past.

I don't believe that Mephisto and Hela could cause the "end" of multiverse, the term "omniverse" in classic is not clear, but is indicative of a multiversal battle larger that only with "9 realms", and this is point here: Gods don't are limited to "9 realms"(What keep gods like 2-C is illogical), and work with gods in classic comics is relationed with multiversal events larger. Some times 2-A, or 1-C, or even higher, as when was used "planes" to describe the entire multiverse.
 
Exist points that are out context in their arguments Hykuu.

In Loki's comics, Loki begins the narrative before King Loki comes out of creation, the comics make mention of higher narratives, and in others moments, Loki makes the universe believe what he wants.

Mikaboshi don't need "gain more power", all creation born of Mikaboshi, Mikaboshi only absorbed the creation to return to their true status. Maelstrom is not "aspect" of Oblivion, in Quasar, Maelstrom was an avatar of other other being, Oblivion only help Maelstrom, and when Maelstrom lost, Oblivion desist of fight against Infinity. Maelstrom in this comics never had Oblivion Power. Maelstrom Power are based in: The cosmic being called Anomaly , in fight against Maelstrom, Quasar stole the status of "Anomaly" , and Anomaly confirmed . What make Oblivion and Maelstrom "lose the fight".
 
I have a problem with something in your comment Driger, actually multiple somethings, but I don't have time to get more into it right now.

You said Asgard is moving from higher dimensions to lower dimensions but your scan just says its moving to nether regions of time and space. That level of evidence should definitely not fly when we're discussing the possibility of higher spatial dimensions.
 
I forgot to respond to the above earlier. In any case, I would much prefer explicit statements from scans shown as proof, rather than subjective personal interpretation.
 
The problem with bringing up God of Stories Loki is that, despite all the symbolic / metaphorical statements of powers that come with being the god of well... Stories, that version of Loki is pretty shit as far as combat and direct feats are concerned.
 
Also, bringing up the whole "On this level, combat is a metaphor!" excuse to justify BS scaling seems like shooting yourself in the foot, since the very context of that storyline was that following the rebirth of the Multiverse in the Eight Eternity and the death of the Living Tribunal, the Cosmic Hierarchy literally didn't exist anymore, and all was up for grabs, with any Cosmic Entity being able to defeat other Cosmic Entities purely through the strength of their willpower. With the sole exception to that rule being The First Firmament.

So no, "His power is metaphorical" doesn't mean he gets to be 1-A. In fact it means quite the opposite.
 
Also: are you guys seriously using the "Hela and Mephisto fighting will destroy the Omniverse" scan as an argument? That sequence is a pure outlier of the highest bidder.

Likewise, showing a handful of scans from the 60s that refer to Asgard as a "Higher Plane of Reality" isn't proof of anything other than Asgard being a plane of existence that exists outside of the universe.

And for some reason Driver is still using the Axis Mundi / World Axis argument when I showed quite clearly in the last thread that the Axis Mundi is just a McGuffin that's limited to the Earth alone.
 
Who cares about Loki's combat feats and tier? His power as the God of Stories is completely metaphorical in nature and the story outright goes out of its way to say so.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Who cares about Loki's combat feats? His power as the God of Stories is completely metaphorical in nature and the story outright goes out of its way to say so.
Click to expand...
Like in the ultimates comics.
 
I forgot to respond to the above earlier. In any case, I would much prefer explicit statements from scans shown as proof, rather than subjective personal interpretation.

I have provided all the scans and explanations that are actually necessary, though. It is stated.
 
@Prince

The "Falling into the Nether Regions of time and space" was the form of Asgard being represented as falling into a lower dimension(The Negative Zone).

There are others mentions in Thor vol 1 and 2 about Asgard existing in a Higher Dimensional Space or in "Higher Plane of existence", but this is out of the point of the discussion here.
The discussion is: Existence of higher or lower representations of time and space(and this reflect in representation of higher dimensions too), the use of "every plane" in the context of this author to represent the entire multiverse.

@Matthew
You look like to use Reduction ad absurdum when it's convenient, even that this method is anti-argumentative and productive. In scan, never was said that Hela and Mephisto could destroy the multiverse|omniverse, only that the fight between them could cause an multiversal damage larger than the Ragnarok.

When I'm talking about gods as "multi-dimensional beings", I use not only mentions of Asgard exist "outside the universe", but this is an types of arguments that are anti-discussion.
You use an obvious point that don't unfeasible what others people said. And tries to discard another point, even if A and B are unrelated.
The mentions of Asgards are like mentions of new gods(Dc), and are represented to be an higher plane, even in Thor vol 2, exist mentions of Asgardians as beings of higher planes of existence.
And Matthew, you try to explain what is "World Axis" and "Heavenly Axis", using the same point that I mentioned, World Axis exist in Earth, this is an point, but he don't exist only in Earth, World Axis have manifestation in Earth as have in Asgard, and in others pantheons. In others dimension.
The simple fact of World Axis be some as Yggdrasil, that exist in "Nine Dimensions" at least, break the logic of your argument. :(
 
The Axis Mundi isn't Yggdrasil and it also isn't nearly as big as you're implying. And Asgardians aren't Higher-Dimensional Beings like the New Gods.
 
That depends on the story, as always happens to be the case with Marvel. Even forgotten deities like the Mayan Gods have been portrayed as 11-dimensional entities before, manifesting only through vessels.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Axis Mundi isn't Yggdrasil and it also isn't nearly as big as you're implying. And Asgardians aren't Higher-Dimensional Beings like the New Gods.
Click to expand...
Matthew, this is your word against what Incredible Hercules showed... Or you are ignoring Hercules showing Axis World in form of Yggdrasil? And in others forms?
 
Even when White Phoenix was created in events involving the axis world?

Or in description of handbook about Axis World be Infinite? Or even when Hercules use Axis World to access others dimensions that are conected by Yggdrasil, going to Yggdrasil? What you said no make sense. Sorry.
 
We ignore Handbooks all the time, my dude. It's not an argument. And Phoenix appearing in one scan isn't proof of anything. It changes the history of the Earth so the Phoenix existing in the new timeline created by the Axis isn't a feat. Just like Marty McFly isn't Low 2-C for changing the future.
 
This is an argument, everything here are arguments, any system need discussion and debate to don't create partiality.

This don't change only Earth history, changed history of Marvel universe, creating a new possible future, controlling the history, and even entities like Phoenix to create this future. Sorry, but your arguments are only imposition without bases to be sustained. Now, I said: You are seriously using this?
 
My arguments are based on the text of the story proper, so yes I am using it. Anyone who reads the Hercules story save those LOOKING for the highest possible interpretation can see that it isn't anywhere near what you imply.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I have provided all the scans and explanations that are actually necessary, though. It is stated.
Click to expand...
I do not remember seeing any for this particular context.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Who cares about Loki's combat feats and tier? His power as the God of Stories is completely metaphorical in nature and the story outright goes out of its way to say so.
Click to expand...
"Who cares about feats" actually sums up everything wrong with the wiki currently.
 
Anyway, I strongly agree with Matthew, and find Driger's and Kepekley's arguments to be mostly built on unreliable personal speculation rather than explicit facts.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"Who cares about feats" actually sums up everything wrong with the wiki currently.
Click to expand...
This is recurrently a good point. We need evidence, not personal conjecture.
 
Didn't Hercules showed the Axis World as Yggdrasil to the norse gods ?

And a small fraction of i's power re created the entire universe if I remember.
 
"Who cares about feats" actually sums up everything wrong with the wiki currently.

Only if you go out of your way to take what I said out of context.

As I said, Loki's tier is irrelevant. He could be 11-C or 1-A for all I care. That much doesn't matter. His specific hax as the God of Stories is entirely metaphorical in nature due to his title (to the point he can write himself doing things), and that allows him to have some modicum of 1-A control over things that does not necessarily scale to his AP. Even blatantly 1-A entities praise him because of this.
 
Sorry Matthew, I'm not here to debate "you opinion about events", the events show that Axis World have different forms, this differents forms are used to acess others dimensions or even the form that this represent, as Atlas, and Yggdrasil. Your argument is based in yourself and can't be taken seriously, I could say that this is an attempt to manipulate the context to what you want. Nothing more than this. Sorry.
 
This is recurrently a good point. We need evidence, not personal conjecture.

Agreed!
 
Not like this One Above All debate matters, anyway. As long as it conceded that there are 1-A entities who are shaped by dreams and beliefs in the Marvel Universe, which there obviously are, splitting hairs about whether or not TOAA specifically is such a being (which he is blatantly stated to be in the 2019 Loki run), is irrelevant to the wider debate.
 
Well, so far the only piece of explicit evidence in this thread for Yggdrasil being of a higher than 2-C scale is this scan:

https://m.imgur.com/a/duHQbwc

Perhaps we should focus on analysing that instead of all the subjective interpretation.
 
There was also the scan regarding the scale of the world tree seed in the previous thread, but I think that ClassicNESfan debunked that.
 
Antvasima said:
There was also the scan regarding the scale of the world tree seed in the previous thread, but I think that ClassicNESfan debunked that.
Click to expand...
ClassicNESfan only expose one version about this, you really think that use the version of NESfan is coherent?

The problems in arguments of NESfan are:

1- Norns don't scale with LTis not the same that Norns can't affect the multiverse. Was posted in last thread, scans about Norns control the stories of gods, and entities cross the multiverse. And Norns use Yggdrasil to control the destiny(Without Yggdrasil, Norns are only the possibilities )
Yggdrasil is more powerful than the Norns too. Yggdrasil scale as multiverse here too.

2- Arguments about "Seth Saga" work plane only as "universe" was debunk in this post, when was showed that every planes are the "entire multiverse"

3- In other post was justified the motive of Ginnungagap be a aspect of Oblivion, in classic Thor, Ginnungagap is the "Void|Nothing" before all creation.

4- Discussion about TWSAIS is based in headcanon only, never was said that TWSAIS only going to outside when multiverse die, in comic that Loki find TWSAIS in Outside was showed that the Thrones of TWSAIS was in this place, and the Throne of TWSAIS is represented, like in Thor Vol 2, TWSAIS live here .

5- The use of Heindall vision to determine what exist within Yggdrasil is wrong, Heindall Vision is not determinant to "What Exist as part of Yggdrasil", Heindall Vision can be influencied by higher forces, and exist others feats of Heindall where he see more that only the "Nine Realms". WorldsH is said that Yggdrasil brought the "WorldH", no that WorldH exist outside Yggdrasil. Erik talking about others configurations of religions is based only in Norse Myth of "Nine Realms" as all existence, but this Myth was break many times in past. In this saga, Nine Realms are only the small part of higher system of Yggdrasil(Multiverse), in context, the saga talk about existence of more worlds than only nine realms in Yggdrasil.

6- Has the same problems of the last argument. Using Heindall Vision like argument.


Exist others scans that neither were debated, like scans of Loki(2004), where the parallel earths, and asgards are parts of Yggdrasil.
 
And it is explicitly shown in the Secret Wars storyline that the Yggdrasil embodies the entire Omniverse. With every dimension the Beyonders destroy, so too does the Tree gets weaker.
 
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