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Mario CRT (Low 2-C Upgrade)

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Bernkastelll said:
Woah, so, we have people calling the others as Gay, homophobic etc etc etc, this thread really made my day better, yeah I agree with the upgrades, after reading the entire thread, I felt that the Low 2-C arguments makes more sense than the counter arguments
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If Matthew was still staff a witch hunt would've started on that staff position for that mesa thinks
 
So, Matt is getting """""""cyber-bullied""""""" in the thread because he's using bad arguments

Results in him retaliating with some """""""hilarious""""""" gay jokes

Thread gets derailed to hell and back because there's absolutely no moderation

Jesus, can this place ever take a break? You guys are like children.

Anyway, i disagree with about 2/3rds of this thread. Feats involving destruction and creation of parallel universes and universes are considered 3-A by defaut, and require explicit mention of space-time/past present and future to count. We've had a whole thread about that.
The 3rd feat is legit, but i don't know how i feel about Mario being treated as if he tanked the thing, but it doesn't really matter. Put me in neutral.

btw Matt, if you wanted a better nickname, you should have at least said "The United F***tts of the Globe". Don't worry, i'm also bisexual :)
 
DatOneWeeb said:
This is moreso argument from belief.

Fabric of the universe is space-time.
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?????

Did you mean to respond to my post? Since your response doesn't feel like it's responding to what I said.
 
I might comment some time in the evening regarding this. Though, I will note I'll pretty much having a lot of the same things I laid out last time.
 
I would propose a varies tier for Mario but that would cover from like tier 8 to tier 2, which isn't a varies at that point its just a matchmaking profile with no real definition
 
Agreement: Maverick Zero X, Pink999999, Oleggator, Gabs22_Gamer, TyranoDoom30, Starsprite53, Bernkastelll, Ned_the_outer_god, QuasiYuri, Rtxthegamer, ElixirBlue, Lord_JJJ, MikeBro25, DaRepearMan, Foxthefox1000, Mozzada, AmiEXE, Psychomaster35, FoxySonicMaster, LuckyEmile, Da_Lunge_Fish, Jared1111, Fastestthingalive50, liluzivert, GreenShifter, deonment, MikeBro25, InfiniteDay, DatOneWeeb, TheQuirkyBoy, Ari64-SP, Bobsican, XSOULOFCINDERX, ShakeResounding, I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die, y3p_owo, sanicspood, TUHTPeaSkull12, MrWarnerTheGreat, SMASHssf2, LephyrTheRevanchist, Maskofthedragon, Adem_Warlock69, Zencha9, Yakushimi, GojiBoyForever, Roachman40, Cyberblader90, VileShadows, Orange, Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou), Gewsbumpz_dude, Gilad_Hyperstar, Bruhtelho, ProfessorKukui4Life, Hunterzilla, NotAMarioFan(lol), Tllmbrg, (58)

Staff Agreement: The_Wright_Way, GyroNutz, Migue79, KieranH10, JustSomeWeirdo, The_real_cal_howard, Seol404 (7)

Neutral: CrinsomStarFallen (1)

Disagreement: Matthew_Schroeder, Agnaa (2)

Staff Disagreement: Eficiente (1)

Tally: 65-1-3
 
DatOneWeeb said:
Well yeah, saying "I disagree because x character should be x tier instead" isn't really an argument. I'll add it for disagreement anyways.
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Oh, my argument for it is that the Mario cast consistently pop up in that range. I don't believe that "outliers" means "has a bunch of anti-feats that can't be argued against by saying AoE fallacy", I think that "outliers" means "far above their consistent showings".

I would propose a varies tier for Mario but that would cover from like tier 8 to tier 2, which isn't a varies at that point its just a matchmaking profile with no real definition

I strongly disagree with profiles that put "varies" for a character's high and low ends just because they have some feats there. Find the consistent ends, and place them there, don't weasel out of it with "varies" when their power should be static.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I would propose a varies tier for Mario but that would cover from like tier 8 to tier 2, which isn't a varies at that point its just a matchmaking profile with no real definition
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After this and the Power Star thread, I plan to add 3 more feats to hopefully make this a bit more consistent.

We don't have to apply Low 2-C yet after this thread, I'd prefer if we can conclude the Power Star thread, then take a look at the other feats as a part 2.
 
I would agree with Agnaa in that the usual portrayal of Mario is far lower, but I think tier 2 is acceptable if part of a "varies" rating that also acknowledges Mario's weaker portrayals.
 
Agnaa said:
I strongly disagree with profiles that put "varies" for a character's high and low ends just because they have some feats there. Find the consistent ends, and place them there, don't weasel out of it with "varies" when their power should be static.
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Oh, you don't say Agnaa, I fehken know that. In fact I vastly prefer static tiers, because frankly slapping a "varies" on that tier is just asking for some match using the character in question to be made, only to find that the character is featless for the tier
 
To be fair, in the narrative, Mario is both treated as a person who was born with power to conquer the universe, and a prophesied hero needed to save the universes. So at least those back him up that he shouldn't directly only be fodder.

That being said, I can hopefully bump the feats onto 7 instead of 3-4 after this and the othet thread.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
To be fair, in the narrative, Mario is both treated as a person who was born with power to conquer the universe, and a prophesied hero needed to save the universes. So at least those back him up that he shouldn't directly only be fodder.
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I ain't saying he's fodder, but some of those games that treat him as a hero of legend also don't give him any feats above tier 8 or whatever.
DatOneWeeb said:
That being said, I can hopefully bump the feats onto 7 instead of 3-4 after this and the othet thread.
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I don't think that changes the point, you can probably find 30 tier 2 feats for Superman or people Superman scales to, but it's still not his usual portrayal.

To make it clear, I don't think tier 2 is "wrong" in an absolute sense, but I don't think tier 2 Mario is the only acceptable interpretation. In the end we must keep in mind that fiction is subjective by nature, and I'm sure many will agree that Mario is often portrayed at a much more modest power level even if they agree with the tier 2 feats themselves.
 
Just letting it out there that I don't think being bi gives you a pass to use slurs. It's pretty toxic, actually.

Anyways, yeah, after this please give the Power Star thread attention so we can also sort that out. Would be very much appreciated.

And as for the "Tier 9-Tier 7" argument... Why? You claim to say it's to keep a static tier and for more consistency, but like, Tier 9-Tier 7 is a pretty big range as is, showing even you don't know where to comfortably rate them. Let's also ignore the fact any verse will always have at bare minimum consistent Tier 9 and even Tier 10 showings. Mario is a character that literally will perforn whatever role he is meant to as stated by Miyamoto himself. He was never going to be consistent from the start.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Just letting it out there that I don't think being bi gives you a pass to use slurs. It's pretty toxic, actually.

Anyways, yeah, after this please give the Power Star thread attention so we can also sort that out. Would be very much appreciated.

And as for the "Tier 9-Tier 7" argument... Why? You claim to say it's to keep a static tier and for more consistency, but like, Tier 9-Tier 7 is a pretty big range as is, showing even you don't know where to comfortably rate them. Let's also ignore the fact any verse will always have at bare minimum consistent Tier 9 and even Tier 10 showings. Mario is a character that literally will perforn whatever role he is meant to as stated by Miyamoto himself. He was never going to be consistent from the start.
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If he is indeed inconsistent, isn't that more evidence for a Varies tier?
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Just letting it out there that I don't think being bi gives you a pass to use slurs. It's pretty toxic, actually.

Anyways, yeah, after this please give the Power Star thread attention so we can also sort that out. Would be very much appreciated.

And as for the "Tier 9-Tier 7" argument... Why? You claim to say it's to keep a static tier and for more consistency, but like, Tier 9-Tier 7 is a pretty big range as is, showing even you don't know where to comfortably rate them. Let's also ignore the fact any verse will always have at bare minimum consistent Tier 9 and even Tier 10 showings. Mario is a character that literally will perforn whatever role he is meant to as stated by Miyamoto himself. He was never going to be consistent from the start.
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It is a pretty big range, I don't know where to comfortably rate them because I haven't actually played/seen that many Mario games, maybe a little over a dozen.

I disagree with the assertion that any verse will have consistent tier 9-10 showings, I know a bunch of characters who don't.

Even if an author's not intending a character to be consistent, we have to find whatever most consistent value is there.

Granted, I don't expect my view to turn the tides of the way the site's been functioning for years, but I figured I'd drop my hot take on mario's tiering now that the thread's mostly done.
 
San-Kakarot said:
It is weird how Mario's power in gameplay doesn't match his power/feats during cut scenes.
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People will call game mechanics on you but we must not forget that often gameplay is used to reinforce a story and as such should at least be given consideration. Now I won't say NSMBU is a storytelling masterpiece, but we should have that consideration for the more story-driven games
DaReaperMan said:
A varies tier would literally cover the range of tier 9/8 to Low 2-C. Why should we do that again?
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No it wouldn't, we'd just have to find another consistent tier. I think there's a lot of tier 7 feats for example
 
Armorchompy said:
No it wouldn't, we'd just have to find another consistent tier. I think there's a lot of tier 7 feats for example
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And we would be basically calling the feats above that outliers. I can get 1 to 2 feats being outliers but 3, soon to be more? No.
 
DaReaperMan said:
And we would be basically calling the feats above that outliers. I can get 1 to 2 feats being outliers but 3, soon to be more? No.
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Outliers aren't about raw number, they're about proportion and portrayal.
 
So is what is being suggested here: "Varies. 9-B as a minimum, 4-A on average, Low 2-C as a maximum"?
 
Antvasima said:
So is what is being suggested here: "Varies. 9-B as a minimum, 4-A on average, Low 2-C as a maximum"?
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That isn't being suggested in any serious/coherent enough way to matter for this thread.

There'd need to actually be lower feats collected an analyzed before a change to lower tiers is justified, Low 2-C can probably pass as-is.
 
Armorchompy said:
No, we'd be saying that it is one of the lower consistent power levels Mario is at.
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But what about the consistent tier 9 feats? What about the consistent tier 8 feats?
Agnaa said:
Outliers aren't about raw number, they're about proportion and portrayal.
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And that term is VERY overused to deny upgrades and enforce downgrades. If we REALLY want to get down to it Mario should be 9-B by that logic since he has multiple 9-B feats in literally every Mario game.
Antvasima said:
So is what is being suggested here: "Varies. 9-B as a minimum, 4-A on average, Low 2-C as a maximum"?
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I can see that being a compromise though I am against it
 
I mean, we should avoid talking about tier 9/8 for now, they have a decent scaling to their current stats, it should be a thing to another thread and all feats of the franchise need to be showed in the ''tier 8/9'' thread
 
9-B is downplay, yeah. Something in the tier 8-6 range is probably fairer. However correct me if I'm mistaken but won't most 4-A feats become Low 2-C due to power stars getting upgraded?
 
I'd rather not regress the back in 2016 era when Mario had a variable tier; especially with those extreme ends. This would be like giving Thor a Tier 9, Tier 4, and Tier 1 key. And even fodder Goombas have plans to be upgraded to Tier 8-7 making anything lower than that utter downplay. And even Tier 6 stuff is extremely casual; which Ryukama iirc said using the 6-B feat from DKC was the absolute lowest he'd accept. I do not agree with going that low either, but it would still be a lot more acceptable than the 9-B stuff.

But anyway, I'll given my open-minded thoughts on the Tier 4 Vs Tier 2 stuff later. Give or take about 12-18 hours or so. Dino Ranger Black is welcome to comment; but I'm pretty sure he's 100% firm on Tier 4 as a reasonable middle.
 
Thank you for helping out Medeus.

Would "Variable. 6-B at minimum. 4-A on average. Low 2-C at maximum." be acceptable, in lack of better options?
 
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