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Maou Gakuin Retribution Series Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
No, since I am not really contesting for it at all.

Sorry, either create a new thread solely based on the topic, and make it staff only, and let all evaluating staff members to carefully read it through, or I am not calling anyone.
 
Please list all approved abilities for me, so I can apply them. I am not applying anti-magic resistances since it is rejected.
 
sure-ok-hand.gif
 
Antimagic Resistances have six staff against them Elde, two who agree with everything except them, and two who just flat disagree with them.

Having two to four at best, neutrals, means your resistance is practically out voted six to two.
 
Yeah, I am not applying them. If you still have a chance to convince 6 staff members, go ahead. Alternatively, you can conclude and create a new thread if you feel it is essential.

Honestly, I don't want to be involved in any conflicts, and the chances of Fuji falsely reporting me are already high. So please present all approved ones, and don't involve me in unnecessary ambiguities.

thumbs-up-good-job.gif
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
What was accepted here, though?
Click to expand...
Check the OP
ImmortalDread said:
I don't see a significant approval for anti-magic resistance to be applied. Sorry, I can't do it.

But if the rest are approved, I can apply them.
Click to expand...
Everything except anti-magic basically.
ImmortalDread said:
Please list all approved abilities for me, so I can apply them. I am not applying anti-magic resistances since it is rejected.
Click to expand...
Making it right now
DaReaperMan said:
Antimagic Resistances have six staff against them Elde, two who agree with everything except them, and two who just flat disagree with them.

Having two to four at best, neutrals, means your resistance is practically out voted six to two.
Click to expand...
ImmortalDread said:
Yeah, I am not applying them. If you still have a chance to convince 6 staff members, go ahead. Alternatively, you can conclude and create a new thread if you feel it is essential.

Honestly, I don't want to be involved in any conflicts, and the chances of Fuji falsely reporting me are already high. So please present all approved ones, and don't involve me in unnecessary ambiguities.

thumbs-up-good-job.gif
Click to expand...
Elizha and dark are neutral, Glass disagrees, deagonx is FRA'ing glass answer so I'm wondering where you got 6 disagrees from
 
DaReaperMan said:
Antimagic Resistances have six staff against them Elde, two who agree with everything except them, and two who just flat disagree with them.

Having two to four at best, neutrals, means your resistance is practically out voted six to two.
Click to expand...
Bruh check the vote tally again.
 
ImmortalDread said:
Yeah, I am not applying them. If you still have a chance to convince 6 staff members, go ahead. Alternatively, you can conclude and create a new thread if you feel it is essential.

Honestly, I don't want to be involved in any conflicts, and the chances of Fuji falsely reporting me are already high. So please present all approved ones, and don't involve me in unnecessary ambiguities.

thumbs-up-good-job.gif
Click to expand...
I already know you're innocent here Dread lmao
 
Dark disagreed? I remember him making analogies and some questions about anti-magic, but I don't remember him saying directly that he disagrees, even more so when the main arguments were put forward some time after he left the CRT.
As far as I saw, Dark never positioned himself as agreeing or disagreeing, just making analogies and demonstrating clear doubts about anti-magic, I believe that thanks to Tatsumi's explanation he has his doubts clarified and can position himself directly.
 
Darkgrath literally said right here that the evidence for resistances via anti-magic aren't sufficient enough to pass, that sounds like a disagreement to me.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Darkgrath literally said right here that the evidence for resistances via anti-magic aren't sufficient enough to pass, that sounds like a disagreement to me.
Click to expand...
See the other comments, Dark is clearly asking more questions about anti-magic, making his own analogies and having obvious doubts, he "disagreed" with the OP (which he didn't, as shortly after that he talked to us about why for which he disagrees and did not have a direct opinion), he still does not have a direct position, as you can see by him asking questions, analogies, having doubts and talking to us, see his last comment.
DarkGrath said:
Let me explain with an analogy.

Let's say Anti-Magic is not just a single thing, but two separate things with the same name. The first kind of Anti-Magic just refers to a character's innate ability to survive the effects of magic cast onto them. The second kind of Anti-Magic refers to some kind of mechanism that can be wielded by a person to cancel out magic that it interacts with.

In this hypothetical situation, "Anti-Magic" would be two entirely different things - in the same way that "crane" can refer either to a bird or to a machine used for building, "Anti-Magic" could be used to refer to two different concepts within the same verse.

If this was true, I would expect some explicit mention of this. I would expect, for example, dialogue from a character who explains that "Anti-Magic" refers to two different powers. For something as integral and important to the magic system of this verse as "Anti-Magic" to exist as a homonym that is simply never elaborated on would be an extraordinary oversight on the part of the author, one which I don't believe they would have made. I want some kind of statement that this is indeed the case.
Click to expand...
After a few conversations he more than clearly doesn't have a concrete opinion, as he keeps making analogies, asking questions, and asking for certain statements. Now that we have Tatsumi's explanation, which is simple to understand and has what he asked for, he can come and give his concrete opinion, because it's pretty obvious from the conversation after that comment that you showed that he doesn't have a concrete opinion.
 
Theglassman12 said:
And how much of the responses remotely address what Darkgrath is asking?
Click to expand...
Dark asks exactly how this "offensive anti-magic", "defensive anti-magic" stuff works and about how exactly anti-magic works, where it's more simply by Tatsumi, of course, besides the fact that it's currently the main argument from the OP.
Besides this being an answer about the analogy he made, which is basically an answer about whether or not his analogy is correct.
Now, whether he agrees or disagrees with the anti-magic's request after reading Tatsumi's explanation only remains to be seen if he speaks.
 
About agree and disagree, i think we must ask again what their position, and not assume anything. I remember in my thread the staff literally say leaning agree but he say for put he in neutral, not just some implicit word like what dark made and say he disagree where there are no explicit word he say that

I dont like someone making a assumtion for the vote, when the voter himself just give some implicit word
 
Not to be rude or anything, but how long will this topic stay open? I think we're just missing agreements or disagreements for anti-magic, right?
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Finally found the time to do this, here's what I could find for now.

EYES OF DESTRUCTION​

These are a unique set of eyes possessed only by Anos Voldigoad, Sasha Necron (Avernyu) and Avos Dilhevia.
These eyes were formed in the Mythical Era when Anos and the Goddess of Destruction Averneyu exchanged one of their eyes with the other.

Anos possessed the Eyes of Chaotic Destruction while the Goddess of Destruction possesses the Divine Eyes of Apocalypse. When both switched eyes, the Eye of Chaotic Destruction and Divine Apocalyptic eye diluted each others powers to form the now weaker Eyes of Destruction.
Essentially, the Eyes of Destruction while called anti-magic, are not actually anti-magic. They're a lesser form of the concept of destruction leading Anos to call it the ultimate form of anti-magic because of it's ability to destroy magic and in other words, is unique and the ability to destroy magic not being something possessed by normal anti-magic. It's ability to destroy also extends to other things besides magic such as destroying;
Physical material (Deconstruction)
Destroying space (spatial manipulation)
Destroying the mind to put people to sleep or in a coma (mind manipulation & sleep manipulation)
Destroy the force behind attacks physical/ magical to reduce their power, reduce one's statistics (Damage reduction & Statistics Reduction)
It can also destroy the effects of magic on a person without destroying the actual magic itself which the series indexes as resistance.

Similar to the Eyes of Destruction utilizing the concept of Destruction, the Order of Abortion uses Abortion to essentially abort magic. Anti-magic can also be used to cut through spell formula and negate the magic however, this isn't an inherent property of anti-magic as for one, anti-magic is made using spell formula and two, cutting formula is something that needs to be actively done by the caster as it is reliant on skill and knowledge. This isn't done with only anti-magic, weapons that have the function to slip through magic and directly cut said formula exist. These are cases @EldemadeDityjon refers to as offensive power nullification.

INTERFERENCE MAGIC
This is another specific application of anti-magic which has been outlined however, anti-magic is never said to negate teleportation magic <Gatom>, thought communication <Leaks>, magical perception. It interferes with teleportation, telepathy/mind reading, magical perception empasis on "interfere" not "destroy", "cancel", "negate" etc all while other forms of magic work unimpeded.

Now this is may be speculation on my part but "anti-magic" as a spell might not even be responsible for this. While it is possible anti-magic can be engineered to perform to this specific application such as here. Anos doesn't say they put up anti-magic, he says they put up a ward to prevent <Gatom> from functioning, a ward meaning barrier and it's set up so that their allies can also teleport around inside said barrier which left gaps he could exploit to get through.
It could as well be an unnamed spell which is just classified under the term "anti-magic" as such spells exists examples being:
1.) <Demera>: A spell which covers an area in a barrier of darkness which instills the caster's will into those inside.
Anos originally called this barrier anti-magic until the name is revealed by one of his subordinates. This grants substance to my speculation.

2.) <Lo Maisis>: This is a ward (barrier) that was used by heroes 2,000yrs ago

Both interfere with magical perception, teleportation & telepathic communication by blocking it not negating it, negating magical sight will be the same as blinding the person to which no one ever goes blind.

<De Ijeria>​

This is another spell that has been referred to as anti-magic however, just like the two other spells spells listed previously, it's cast method has separate mechanics to it furthermore, it's functions don't even line up with any of the abilities being discussed here. <De Ijeria> involves creating wards of fire, earth, wind, water in different cardinal directions, each amplifying the magic sealing potential of the other. This is something that isn't required to utilize normal anti-magic which has also never been stated to seal magic.

As said above <De Ijeria> has no properties of power null neither does it offer any resistance instead it's functions include;
  • Statistics Reduction.
  • Statistics Amplification.
  • Regeneration/Healing.
It halves the power of demons, amplifies that of humans, regenerates the wounds of allies.

FUSION MAGIC​

This one isn't about proving separate applications or mechanisms rather, it's to establish the fact anti-magic isn't the antithesis to magic. For one both are magic spells and come from the same source and fusion magic will prove this as well as disprove any notion of magic negation, cancelation.

Fusion magic as the name implies fuses 2 sources of power to increase their effect be it magic spells, people, magic items etc. One of the things that has been accomplished with this is the fusion of magic and anti-magic.

MAGIC RESISTANCE​

Many varied applications of the term "anti-magic" exist however, the story makes it clear in what way or form it pertains to resistance. An example of this is the use of words like "resist", "ward off", "protect". Without mentioning those already used before, below are examples of cases where it pertains to resistance.

1.) Volume 3 Chapter 21
It is brought up in a matter about protecting themselves from a barrier which induces paralysis inducement and statistics reduction

2.)Volume 4 Chapter 40
Here because certain demons are frequently mentioned in the legend of the Demon King of tyranny, they are bound to the service of the being born from that legend and it's potency on them is made stronger. It also mentions how their anti-magic doesn't stand a chance against a legend that powerful.
Demons who aren't as strongly bound to it resist it by having powerful hearts (supernatural willpower). This shows a correlation between anti-magic and resistance through supernatural will.

3.) Web Novel Chapter 347
"I see, so space-time is distorted inside that gate."

Drawing a magic circle, I shoot the Hellfire Eradication Cannon <Jio Graze>.

The jet-black sun suddenly disappears the moment it enters the Blood Gate <Keikkai-mon>.

The next moment, it landed with a thud at the bottom of the stone steps.

Again I walked up the stone steps to the gate and stopped there.

"It's quite a secret," I said, "that you can ignore my anti-magic and make me cross the dimension. In exchange, not even your spear that transcends time and space will be able to reach me from there."
An opponent uses a technique which sacrifices their own life and in exchange, the effectiveness of their ability is greatly improved such that it doesn't bypass, overcome, breakthrough, it ignores the anti-magic.

4.) Web Novel Chapter 348
But to prevent this, the cursed mud covers all the stone steps like a wall.

It completely separated me and the Netherworld King.

-- "Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run! --

So the words of the curse stain the Aeges head, hard and insistent.

It broke through even Aeges anti-magic and worked a compulsion that stopped him in his tracks.
[...]
The room was filled with mud.

They spread the curse of death all over the area, touching the walls, ceiling, ground, and ruins, and turning everything into cursed mud.

Even my own body would be turned to mud if I did not constantly use my Magic Eye of Destruction and anti-magic.
[...]
I wore the least amount of anti-magic and dared to be swallowed by the mud that attacked me.

I let myself be swept away by the current of the cursed mud, and my body sank to the bottom.

The more you fall, the stronger the curse of the mud becomes, trying to eat away at your body and your roots.

The anti-magic is broken and the mud touches my body.

If I prevent this, I will not be able to get to where I want to go.

"Curse my source!"

I offer my source in place of my body and take the cursed mud within it.

A nauseating pain washes over me, and a curse that makes me crazy sticks to my ears and won't leave.

Still my body sinks and the curse grows stronger.

The pain that Kaihiram had experienced in his death came back to me, multiplied many times over.

I endured the pain and the curse, and waited patiently until I saw before me the dark coffin that contained the source of the curse, Kai Hiram.
This one shows resisting a curse that comes with compound effects through anti-magic and it differentiates between the Eye of Destruction and anti-magic. Should this be power null alone, why identify the two when in terms of nullification, EoD>>>anti-magic?

5.) Web Novel Chapter 409
Draw a magic circle on Sasha and Misha.

My magic eye sees that they are sealed or cursed with a seal that causes their bodily functions to deteriorate.

It is likely that they are desperately resisting it with anti-magic.

They are probably conscious, but they are so focused on breaking the seal that they seems unable to move.

With my magic eye, which was dyed a deep purple, I stared at the order magic that had been cast on the girls and drew multiple magic circles with <Laeluente> "Seal Curse Bind Restoration"
Self explanatory

6.) Web Novel Chapter 449
Lay, who plunged into the Sun of Destruction without putting up any anti-magic, was enveloped by the black sun and the light of final destruction, destroying his sources in the blink of an eye.

The fact that his body barely retains its original form is probably due to the blessing of the Sword of three races.
"blessings" in this case is referring to the same thing here. The character's own anti-magic as well as the blessings of their weapon giving them double protection, essentially "blessings" refer to the anti-magic of the weapon.
Click to expand...
Tatsumi504 said:
Huh, I also missed something

Edit: I actually found a bunch of stuff that I missed so I'm gonna drop it all here. This also makes me have to redact a prior statement I made regarding 2 topics in the OP "anti-magic plays no role in the resistance to fire and electricity manipulation". This statement is wrong as you'll find in the evidence presented below.

Fire Manipulation​

It is the baptism of the faithful to reach out to that divine bonfire and take hold of the Pearl of Allegiance in the flames. The one who is chosen by the heavenly mandate will be able to hold it without being burned. That one will be able to advance to the righteousness of his calling."

Hmmm. A fire made of magic.

If some anti-magic is applied, you won't get burned.

So those who proceed to the righteousness of the calling are sifted by the presence or absence of magic.
I don't think it can get clearer than this. Nothing here implies any form of nullification.
Here's the follow up on what happens later
I carelessly stuck my hand into the bonfire and picked up a pearl of allegiance.

"Oh ......!　It's wonderful. Not even a single burn. You were undeniably chosen by fate...hmm?"

Eleonore gets the ring of the Pearl of the allegiance unharmed.

It's easy!"

"...... Zesia was also chosen by fate ......"

The bishop stares at them, stunned.

"...... three people at once today, what a--ahh ......!"

Misha and Sasha still get the Pearl of Allegiance without getting burned.

"...... the five of them also ......"

"Kakka, isn't this easy?"

Eldemade takes the Pearl of Alliance.

Naya also took the liberty of reaching for the bonfire.

She is an inferior student in the Institute of the Demon King, but, however, she is a student who can enter the Institute of the Demon King in the first place. There was no way she would get burned by this level of fire, and she easily took the ring of the Pearl of Allegiance in her hand.
So 7 people in total and they possibly didn't even use anti-magic

Electricity Manipulation​

Celis pulled out the Heavy Thunder Sword Gaudgimon.

Purple electricity gushes out from the sword's blade.

Concentrating an enormous amount of magical power, the tip of Gaudgimon's is aimed at Gorloana.

"Wait,......!　I won't let you do that. ......"

As soon as Sasha glared at Celis with her 'Magic Eye of Destruction,' Zessiah, Eleonor, and Misha moved.

Instantly, Purple Lightning <Gavest> is shot out and strikes them with lightning.

Sasha and the others endured it by deploying anti-magic with all their might, but the lightning sword Gaudgimon's sword flash floated in their chests.

Immediately after, an explosion of purple electricity shot the girls away.

"...... kyaaaaaaaa............!!!"

"You don't have much magic left, do you? Don't push yourself too hard."

Ice Manipulation, Matter Manipulation & Transmutation​

Arcana's Magic Eye of Transgression shoots through Celis.

From his feet to his upper body, his body froze.

Since Celis, who is clothed in strong anti-magic, cannot be directly transformed into snow, she is transforming his anti-magic into ice.

As seen in the evidence above, there's zero semantics to be argued in these cases.

In the case of fire there's no nullification taking place, it doesn't even say they used anti-magic so it's likely just magic power. This links back to dragons that protect themselves from flames with their magic power however, the takeaway from this lies in fire not being able to burn someone who is utilizing anti-magic. Nothing there implies any sort of nullification as the fire simply continues to burn.

For electricity, those characters endured Graham's onslaught by protecting themselves with anti-magic, emphasis on "endure". You do not endure with power nullification for one.
Secondly nothing in the context given even implies power nullification of any kind taking place, infact, It's been made clear that EoD> normal anti-magic and Sasha is actively looking at Graham with the EoD so this already proves power nullification isn't working still they endure and aren't burnt by lightning that outstrips Anos <Jirasd> which already burns one to ashes by means of anti-magic.

Finally, in the case of matter manipulation, Graham's anti-magic allows him to not be affected by Arcana's Eye of Transgression. From previous scans sent, the EoT is basically a fusion of the EoD and Eye of Creation so it also has power nullification.
Graham isn't affected thanks to his strong anti-magic so he can't be frozen so Arcana instead freezes the anti-magic directly. The logic that power nullification can null abilities used on it's wielder but can't null abilities used on itself is absurd to put it in nice terms.
Click to expand...
@DarkGrath sorry for the ping, but Tatsumi has replied to a thing you've asked and it has been more than 1 month and they need your answer so they can conclude this thread.
 
Last edited:
My apologies for my delayed reply to this thread. To address the matters I've been asked to respond to:

Dog3352 said:
Dark asks exactly how this "offensive anti-magic", "defensive anti-magic" stuff works and about how exactly anti-magic works, where it's more simply by Tatsumi, of course, besides the fact that it's currently the main argument from the OP.
Besides this being an answer about the analogy he made, which is basically an answer about whether or not his analogy is correct.
Now, whether he agrees or disagrees with the anti-magic's request after reading Tatsumi's explanation only remains to be seen if he speaks.
Click to expand...

To fully clarify what I meant in those comments - I was disagreeing, not neutral. My analogy was used to explain in simple terms why the evidence at that point in time was not compelling enough to justify the suggested changes, not simply as a way of inciting questions about the changes. That being said, of course, Tatsumi has responded to my questions since then, so that's no longer relevant.

Tatsumi504 said:
Finally found the time to do this, here's what I could find for now.

EYES OF DESTRUCTION​

These are a unique set of eyes possessed only by Anos Voldigoad, Sasha Necron (Avernyu) and Avos Dilhevia.
These eyes were formed in the Mythical Era when Anos and the Goddess of Destruction Averneyu exchanged one of their eyes with the other.

Anos possessed the Eyes of Chaotic Destruction while the Goddess of Destruction possesses the Divine Eyes of Apocalypse. When both switched eyes, the Eye of Chaotic Destruction and Divine Apocalyptic eye diluted each others powers to form the now weaker Eyes of Destruction.
Essentially, the Eyes of Destruction while called anti-magic, are not actually anti-magic. They're a lesser form of the concept of destruction leading Anos to call it the ultimate form of anti-magic because of it's ability to destroy magic and in other words, is unique and the ability to destroy magic not being something possessed by normal anti-magic. It's ability to destroy also extends to other things besides magic such as destroying;
Physical material (Deconstruction)
Destroying space (spatial manipulation)
Destroying the mind to put people to sleep or in a coma (mind manipulation & sleep manipulation)
Destroy the force behind attacks physical/ magical to reduce their power, reduce one's statistics (Damage reduction & Statistics Reduction)
It can also destroy the effects of magic on a person without destroying the actual magic itself which the series indexes as resistance.

Similar to the Eyes of Destruction utilizing the concept of Destruction, the Order of Abortion uses Abortion to essentially abort magic. Anti-magic can also be used to cut through spell formula and negate the magic however, this isn't an inherent property of anti-magic as for one, anti-magic is made using spell formula and two, cutting formula is something that needs to be actively done by the caster as it is reliant on skill and knowledge. This isn't done with only anti-magic, weapons that have the function to slip through magic and directly cut said formula exist. These are cases @EldemadeDityjon refers to as offensive power nullification.

INTERFERENCE MAGIC
This is another specific application of anti-magic which has been outlined however, anti-magic is never said to negate teleportation magic <Gatom>, thought communication <Leaks>, magical perception. It interferes with teleportation, telepathy/mind reading, magical perception empasis on "interfere" not "destroy", "cancel", "negate" etc all while other forms of magic work unimpeded.

Now this is may be speculation on my part but "anti-magic" as a spell might not even be responsible for this. While it is possible anti-magic can be engineered to perform to this specific application such as here. Anos doesn't say they put up anti-magic, he says they put up a ward to prevent <Gatom> from functioning, a ward meaning barrier and it's set up so that their allies can also teleport around inside said barrier which left gaps he could exploit to get through.
It could as well be an unnamed spell which is just classified under the term "anti-magic" as such spells exists examples being:
1.) <Demera>: A spell which covers an area in a barrier of darkness which instills the caster's will into those inside.
Anos originally called this barrier anti-magic until the name is revealed by one of his subordinates. This grants substance to my speculation.

2.) <Lo Maisis>: This is a ward (barrier) that was used by heroes 2,000yrs ago

Both interfere with magical perception, teleportation & telepathic communication by blocking it not negating it, negating magical sight will be the same as blinding the person to which no one ever goes blind.

<De Ijeria>​

This is another spell that has been referred to as anti-magic however, just like the two other spells spells listed previously, it's cast method has separate mechanics to it furthermore, it's functions don't even line up with any of the abilities being discussed here. <De Ijeria> involves creating wards of fire, earth, wind, water in different cardinal directions, each amplifying the magic sealing potential of the other. This is something that isn't required to utilize normal anti-magic which has also never been stated to seal magic.

As said above <De Ijeria> has no properties of power null neither does it offer any resistance instead it's functions include;
  • Statistics Reduction.
  • Statistics Amplification.
  • Regeneration/Healing.
It halves the power of demons, amplifies that of humans, regenerates the wounds of allies.

FUSION MAGIC​

This one isn't about proving separate applications or mechanisms rather, it's to establish the fact anti-magic isn't the antithesis to magic. For one both are magic spells and come from the same source and fusion magic will prove this as well as disprove any notion of magic negation, cancelation.

Fusion magic as the name implies fuses 2 sources of power to increase their effect be it magic spells, people, magic items etc. One of the things that has been accomplished with this is the fusion of magic and anti-magic.

MAGIC RESISTANCE​

Many varied applications of the term "anti-magic" exist however, the story makes it clear in what way or form it pertains to resistance. An example of this is the use of words like "resist", "ward off", "protect". Without mentioning those already used before, below are examples of cases where it pertains to resistance.

1.) Volume 3 Chapter 21
It is brought up in a matter about protecting themselves from a barrier which induces paralysis inducement and statistics reduction

2.)Volume 4 Chapter 40
Here because certain demons are frequently mentioned in the legend of the Demon King of tyranny, they are bound to the service of the being born from that legend and it's potency on them is made stronger. It also mentions how their anti-magic doesn't stand a chance against a legend that powerful.
Demons who aren't as strongly bound to it resist it by having powerful hearts (supernatural willpower). This shows a correlation between anti-magic and resistance through supernatural will.

3.) Web Novel Chapter 347
"I see, so space-time is distorted inside that gate."

Drawing a magic circle, I shoot the Hellfire Eradication Cannon <Jio Graze>.

The jet-black sun suddenly disappears the moment it enters the Blood Gate <Keikkai-mon>.

The next moment, it landed with a thud at the bottom of the stone steps.

Again I walked up the stone steps to the gate and stopped there.

"It's quite a secret," I said, "that you can ignore my anti-magic and make me cross the dimension. In exchange, not even your spear that transcends time and space will be able to reach me from there."
An opponent uses a technique which sacrifices their own life and in exchange, the effectiveness of their ability is greatly improved such that it doesn't bypass, overcome, breakthrough, it ignores the anti-magic.

4.) Web Novel Chapter 348
But to prevent this, the cursed mud covers all the stone steps like a wall.

It completely separated me and the Netherworld King.

-- "Run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run! --

So the words of the curse stain the Aeges head, hard and insistent.

It broke through even Aeges anti-magic and worked a compulsion that stopped him in his tracks.
[...]
The room was filled with mud.

They spread the curse of death all over the area, touching the walls, ceiling, ground, and ruins, and turning everything into cursed mud.

Even my own body would be turned to mud if I did not constantly use my Magic Eye of Destruction and anti-magic.
[...]
I wore the least amount of anti-magic and dared to be swallowed by the mud that attacked me.

I let myself be swept away by the current of the cursed mud, and my body sank to the bottom.

The more you fall, the stronger the curse of the mud becomes, trying to eat away at your body and your roots.

The anti-magic is broken and the mud touches my body.

If I prevent this, I will not be able to get to where I want to go.

"Curse my source!"

I offer my source in place of my body and take the cursed mud within it.

A nauseating pain washes over me, and a curse that makes me crazy sticks to my ears and won't leave.

Still my body sinks and the curse grows stronger.

The pain that Kaihiram had experienced in his death came back to me, multiplied many times over.

I endured the pain and the curse, and waited patiently until I saw before me the dark coffin that contained the source of the curse, Kai Hiram.
This one shows resisting a curse that comes with compound effects through anti-magic and it differentiates between the Eye of Destruction and anti-magic. Should this be power null alone, why identify the two when in terms of nullification, EoD>>>anti-magic?

5.) Web Novel Chapter 409
Draw a magic circle on Sasha and Misha.

My magic eye sees that they are sealed or cursed with a seal that causes their bodily functions to deteriorate.

It is likely that they are desperately resisting it with anti-magic.

They are probably conscious, but they are so focused on breaking the seal that they seems unable to move.

With my magic eye, which was dyed a deep purple, I stared at the order magic that had been cast on the girls and drew multiple magic circles with <Laeluente> "Seal Curse Bind Restoration"
Self explanatory

6.) Web Novel Chapter 449
Lay, who plunged into the Sun of Destruction without putting up any anti-magic, was enveloped by the black sun and the light of final destruction, destroying his sources in the blink of an eye.

The fact that his body barely retains its original form is probably due to the blessing of the Sword of three races.
"blessings" in this case is referring to the same thing here. The character's own anti-magic as well as the blessings of their weapon giving them double protection, essentially "blessings" refer to the anti-magic of the weapon.
Click to expand...
Tatsumi504 said:
Huh, I also missed something

Edit: I actually found a bunch of stuff that I missed so I'm gonna drop it all here. This also makes me have to redact a prior statement I made regarding 2 topics in the OP "anti-magic plays no role in the resistance to fire and electricity manipulation". This statement is wrong as you'll find in the evidence presented below.

Fire Manipulation​

It is the baptism of the faithful to reach out to that divine bonfire and take hold of the Pearl of Allegiance in the flames. The one who is chosen by the heavenly mandate will be able to hold it without being burned. That one will be able to advance to the righteousness of his calling."

Hmmm. A fire made of magic.

If some anti-magic is applied, you won't get burned.

So those who proceed to the righteousness of the calling are sifted by the presence or absence of magic.
I don't think it can get clearer than this. Nothing here implies any form of nullification.
Here's the follow up on what happens later
I carelessly stuck my hand into the bonfire and picked up a pearl of allegiance.

"Oh ......!　It's wonderful. Not even a single burn. You were undeniably chosen by fate...hmm?"

Eleonore gets the ring of the Pearl of the allegiance unharmed.

It's easy!"

"...... Zesia was also chosen by fate ......"

The bishop stares at them, stunned.

"...... three people at once today, what a--ahh ......!"

Misha and Sasha still get the Pearl of Allegiance without getting burned.

"...... the five of them also ......"

"Kakka, isn't this easy?"

Eldemade takes the Pearl of Alliance.

Naya also took the liberty of reaching for the bonfire.

She is an inferior student in the Institute of the Demon King, but, however, she is a student who can enter the Institute of the Demon King in the first place. There was no way she would get burned by this level of fire, and she easily took the ring of the Pearl of Allegiance in her hand.
So 7 people in total and they possibly didn't even use anti-magic

Electricity Manipulation​

Celis pulled out the Heavy Thunder Sword Gaudgimon.

Purple electricity gushes out from the sword's blade.

Concentrating an enormous amount of magical power, the tip of Gaudgimon's is aimed at Gorloana.

"Wait,......!　I won't let you do that. ......"

As soon as Sasha glared at Celis with her 'Magic Eye of Destruction,' Zessiah, Eleonor, and Misha moved.

Instantly, Purple Lightning <Gavest> is shot out and strikes them with lightning.

Sasha and the others endured it by deploying anti-magic with all their might, but the lightning sword Gaudgimon's sword flash floated in their chests.

Immediately after, an explosion of purple electricity shot the girls away.

"...... kyaaaaaaaa............!!!"

"You don't have much magic left, do you? Don't push yourself too hard."

Ice Manipulation, Matter Manipulation & Transmutation​

Arcana's Magic Eye of Transgression shoots through Celis.

From his feet to his upper body, his body froze.

Since Celis, who is clothed in strong anti-magic, cannot be directly transformed into snow, she is transforming his anti-magic into ice.

As seen in the evidence above, there's zero semantics to be argued in these cases.

In the case of fire there's no nullification taking place, it doesn't even say they used anti-magic so it's likely just magic power. This links back to dragons that protect themselves from flames with their magic power however, the takeaway from this lies in fire not being able to burn someone who is utilizing anti-magic. Nothing there implies any sort of nullification as the fire simply continues to burn.

For electricity, those characters endured Graham's onslaught by protecting themselves with anti-magic, emphasis on "endure". You do not endure with power nullification for one.
Secondly nothing in the context given even implies power nullification of any kind taking place, infact, It's been made clear that EoD> normal anti-magic and Sasha is actively looking at Graham with the EoD so this already proves power nullification isn't working still they endure and aren't burnt by lightning that outstrips Anos <Jirasd> which already burns one to ashes by means of anti-magic.

Finally, in the case of matter manipulation, Graham's anti-magic allows him to not be affected by Arcana's Eye of Transgression. From previous scans sent, the EoT is basically a fusion of the EoD and Eye of Creation so it also has power nullification.
Graham isn't affected thanks to his strong anti-magic so he can't be frozen so Arcana instead freezes the anti-magic directly. The logic that power nullification can null abilities used on it's wielder but can't null abilities used on itself is absurd to put it in nice terms.
Click to expand...

In regard to these posts, if the conclusion here is that:

1: There are multiple forms of anti-magic.

2: Some forms of anti-magic allow the user to directly cancel out magic (i.e.: power nullification), while others allow the user to resist magic (i.e.: resistance to magic).

Then I would have to say I tenuously agree with the conclusion. My concern from earlier in the thread remains - it's a jarring hole in the writing for "anti-magic" to refer to multiple different things while nevertheless using the exact same conflated term and never explicitly stating they are different things. But the deduction here is valid. These sources from the series do quite unambiguously refer to different uses of anti-magic having different, contradictory effects; the kind of anti-magic described in the feats for the Eyes of Destruction is evidently not the same as the kind of anti-magic applied to prevent burning when touching fire. The mechanic behind some instances of anti-magic is the act of cancelling out the magic being interacted with, while the mechanic behind some other instances of anti-magic explicitly doesn't involve cancelling out the magic, and merely becoming more resilient to it. This would only be possible if anti-magic can constitute different mechanisms depending on the specific technique being referred to as anti-magic. Therefore, multiple forms of anti-magic exist, and their individual use cases range from power nullification to resistance.

If the intention is to change the profiles to reflect the fact that anti-magic takes either of those forms depending on the context, then, I wouldn't be opposed to the change.
 
DarkGrath said:
In regard to these posts, if the conclusion here is that:

1: There are multiple forms of anti-magic.

2: Some forms of anti-magic allow the user to directly cancel out magic (i.e.: power nullification), while others allow the user to resist magic (i.e.: resistance to magic).
Click to expand...
Yes this is what I have been trying to say. I am not good with English so can't be helped. Anyway we are on the same page.
DarkGrath said:
Then I would have to say I tenuously agree with the conclusion. My concern from earlier in the thread remains - it's a jarring hole in the writing for "anti-magic" to refer to multiple different things while nevertheless using the exact same conflated term and never explicitly stating they are different things. But the deduction here is valid. These sources from the series do quite unambiguously refer to different uses of anti-magic having different, contradictory effects; the kind of anti-magic described in the feats for the Eyes of Destruction is evidently not the same as the kind of anti-magic applied to prevent burning when touching fire. The mechanic behind some instances of anti-magic is the act of cancelling out the magic being interacted with, while the mechanic behind some other instances of anti-magic explicitly doesn't involve cancelling out the magic, and merely becoming more resilient to it. This would only be possible if anti-magic can constitute different mechanisms depending on the specific technique being referred to as anti-magic. Therefore, multiple forms of anti-magic exist, and their individual use cases range from power nullification to resistance.

If the intention is to change the profiles to reflect the fact that anti-magic takes either of those forms depending on the context, then, I wouldn't be opposed to the change.
Click to expand...
Me and Tatsumi are planning to create a explanation page for anti magic when we are free for now we are planning to just list in the profile.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Me and Tatsumi are planning to create a explanation page for anti magic when we are free for now we are planning to just list in the profile.
Click to expand...
I'm kinda busy so unfortunately we have to keep that on the back burner. At this point any changes can be put on hold till then since almost everything here revolves round the topic
 
DarkGrath said:
My apologies for my delayed reply to this thread. To address the matters I've been asked to respond to:



To fully clarify what I meant in those comments - I was disagreeing, not neutral. My analogy was used to explain in simple terms why the evidence at that point in time was not compelling enough to justify the suggested changes, not simply as a way of inciting questions about the changes. That being said, of course, Tatsumi has responded to my questions since then, so that's no longer relevant.




In regard to these posts, if the conclusion here is that:

1: There are multiple forms of anti-magic.

2: Some forms of anti-magic allow the user to directly cancel out magic (i.e.: power nullification), while others allow the user to resist magic (i.e.: resistance to magic).

Then I would have to say I tenuously agree with the conclusion. My concern from earlier in the thread remains - it's a jarring hole in the writing for "anti-magic" to refer to multiple different things while nevertheless using the exact same conflated term and never explicitly stating they are different things. But the deduction here is valid. These sources from the series do quite unambiguously refer to different uses of anti-magic having different, contradictory effects; the kind of anti-magic described in the feats for the Eyes of Destruction is evidently not the same as the kind of anti-magic applied to prevent burning when touching fire. The mechanic behind some instances of anti-magic is the act of cancelling out the magic being interacted with, while the mechanic behind some other instances of anti-magic explicitly doesn't involve cancelling out the magic, and merely becoming more resilient to it. This would only be possible if anti-magic can constitute different mechanisms depending on the specific technique being referred to as anti-magic. Therefore, multiple forms of anti-magic exist, and their individual use cases range from power nullification to resistance.

If the intention is to change the profiles to reflect the fact that anti-magic takes either of those forms depending on the context, then, I wouldn't be opposed to the change.
Click to expand...
Okay, thanks for your input, I largely agree with this sentiment and everything in the OP seems fine to me.

@Elizhaa since you were neutral in the same thing as Dark, now that it was given an updated version of this, you still neutral or your vote has changed basing on Dark's response?
 
Ok, so the case that best suits among the different scenarios will be the one that will be applied to the current profile. So it seems that we have come to the final conclusion, everything in the OP was accepted with a substantial difference of 5:2.

@Tatsumi504 tell me when are you going to apply the changes and i'll help try to help if you need.
 
Dereck03 said:
Ok, so the case that best suits among the different scenarios will be the one that will be applied to the current profile. So it seems that we have come to the final conclusion, everything in the OP was accepted with a substantial difference of 5:2.

@Tatsumi504 tell me when are you going to apply the changes and i'll help try to help if you need.
Click to expand...
Thank you all for your help, can I really take you up on that offer? I don't wanna mess anything up, if possible tag dread to do it.

Changes to be applied include;

To Power & Abilities

To Resistances
Expand resistance to body puppetry to include;
  • Mind Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Power Nullification, Fear Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement (Can resist the effects of compulsion magic which has varied effects depending on the order given. Anos words which can leave others trembling in fear is also an effect of compulsion magic)
Venuzdonor tab

This is everything that was relevant pertaining to the discussion in the thread. If I missed anything, which I'm 100% sure I did, it can be added another day.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Thank you all for your help, can I really take you up on that offer? I don't wanna mess anything up, if possible tag dread to do it.

Changes to be applied include;

To Power & Abilities

To Resistances
Expand resistance to body puppetry to include;
  • Mind Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Power Nullification, Fear Manipulation & Paralysis Inducement (Can resist the effects of compulsion magic which has varied effects depending on the order given. Anos words which can leave others trembling in fear is also an effect of compulsion magic)
Venuzdonor tab

This is everything that was relevant pertaining to the discussion in the thread. If I missed anything, which I'm 100% sure I did, it can be added another day.
Click to expand...
Okay, i've applied the changes.... If something is missed then you can dm me in the server, also you have to send me the reference from the chapters and volume... I'll close this then, thanks everybode for your input and time.
 
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