Maou Gakuin Retribution Series Part 1

[Tatsumi504]

INTRODUCTION​

---

The purpose of this content revision is to rectify the changes that were enacted in this previous CRT and as such is structured as a response to it.

That CRT is built upon obvious contradictions, name and association fallacies, lack of knowledge and "trust me bro" which leaves me with a few choice words for all the participating members. A "lack of scans and reference" is frankly just an excuse to antagonize the supporters as there are multiple profiles without them and still nothing has been done to correct them. If this kind of behaviour is allowed to continue then I might as well be forced to seek retribution through my own means and with that said, let's get down to business.

ELECTRICITY MANIPULATION​

---

This is from Anos shrugging off the effects of <Jirasd> in volume 1. The feat itself is quite clear, but there is more at play than just tanking a lightning bolt. Jirasd is what’s known as origin magic, or magic that has been greatly amplified due to being drawn from a specific origin. Such magic has a caveat though; It works on everyone except the origin of the magic in question. Wouldn’t you know it, Anos is the one who invented Jirasd, so he naturally isn’t affected by it - not due to his own innate resistance, but due to a weakness of origin magic in general.

This isn't even where the resistance comes from in the first place.
The resistance stems from Jerga being unaffected by <Jirasd> by protecting himself with his magic power by expelling it from his body, those unable to resist it are reduced to ashes by the heat of the lightning.

Ice Manipulation, Matter Manipulation & Transmutation​

---

This stems from the claim that anti-magic can cancel the effects of Misha’s Eyes of Creation. For reference, Misha uses this ability exactly once, in volume 4 part 1. The one instance of her using this ability shows her transmuting someone into ice; Nobody ever resists it, and she doesn’t even use it against anyone else to begin with. I am legitimately baffled as to where this came from. As seen below, anti-magic would no longer be considered a form of resistance even if this feat was legit.

Misha's opponent failed to resist it because Misha's powers became more potent. Anti-magic can resist it as shown with the opponent strengthening her defenses. Why would she waste her magic on such a mundane action otherwise? If one were to look closely at the surrounding context, they'd find the attempt at resistance failed because Misha had just gained a massive increase to her abilities as I said above.

Light Novel Volume 4 Chapter 13
Misha's opponent despite already putting both Misha and her sister on the verge of death becomes flustered when her power awakens and this isn't because she awakens, it's because of what she does after that which is basically creating a god which is something that should be impossible for any Demon to do. In the scenario, it's also noted how Misha's new found ability has already shown what it's capable of when she reconstructed her opponent's weapon (an item from the mythical era) and the same was noted for her sister Sasha's eyes which had grown to the point it could affect the weapon but not Linka herself.

Sasha and Misha are equal and opposite, two sides of the same coin etc and it is something that has been portrayed since the beginning. Despite specializing in opposite attributes, the effect/potency of one's ability is always equal to that of the other however Misha with the magic tool she created (a god) surpassed what her sister is capable of.

Exploring the magic tool itself, the Demon King's Castle Delzgade, the body of the God of Destruction which holds that authority, the greatest magic artifact owned by Anos, a 3-dimensional magic formation used for the activation of greater magic such as the one done in the prologue of the first volume which split the entire world into 4.
There is a hierarchy between the gods with the higher ranked one's holding more authority that the lower ones and the god of destruction is currently at the top with the current information.
Misha created a watered down version of it and used it to augment her powers.

Against what everyone is made to believe, Misha does continue to use this ability later on and will continue to use it as the story progresses. In Volume 4 part 2, she uses it again and this time even with the boost from the pseudo demon king castle, she still required her sisters assistance to affect her target. Melheis and the others are having their abilities amplified by Avos Dilhevia's. Sasha had to use her eyes to nullify the amplification before Misha could affect them.
Avos uses the spell to absorb massive amounts of magic from mixed blood demons which she uses to enhance the effectiveness of <Gyze> a spell which bestows one's magic to their subordinates. This magic she is giving them is so immense it manifests as an ominous sludge around them.

Web Novel Chapter 265
This same exact scenario will still play out again but with different opponents. Aisha's eyes of creation and destruction have to break through the anti-magic of 2 of the 4 Evil Kings in order for her to affect their weapons

Spoiler

アイシャが、イージェスとカイヒラムを睨む。

その＜創滅の魔眼＞が、彼らの反魔法を突破し、魔弓と魔槍に干渉する。

「……おのれぇ……」

「……話に違わぬ、凄まじい魔眼よ……」

ディヒッドアテムとネテロアウヴスは瞬く間に氷の結晶へと変わる。

その魔眼から逃れるように、冥王と詛王は飛び退いた。

「逃がさないわ」

「どれだけ離れても視界にいる限り同じ」

アイシャが追撃するように＜創滅の魔眼＞に魔力を込め、二人を睨みつける。

Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam.

Her <Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction> breaks through their anti-magic and interferes with their magic bow and spear.

"......, you ......"

"......, just as its said, you've got a great magic eye. ......"

Dihidatem and Neteroauvus are instantly transformed into ice crystals.

To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back.

"I won't let you escape."

"No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same."

Once again it's mentioned how the eyes could affect their weapons but did nothing to them despite being in her sight (throwback to Sasha's eye's affecting Linka's weapon but not doing anything to Linka herself) and when she increases the magic power the eyes use, Graham has to step in to protect them from it

Spoiler

Aisha puts magic power into her <Eyes of Creation and Destruction> to chase after them and glares at them.

At that moment, the response of the <I Gneas> that was gripping me disappeared.

As if blocking Aisha's view, a huge purple lightning bolt poured down making a rattling sound.

"Just as I thought."

A light voice echoes.

It is not that of Aeges, nor of Kaihiram.

"It's the Magic Eye of Transgression, isn't it?"

If magic power does nothing, why does Graham suddenly need to protect them from what previously had no effect on them simply because more magic power was used?

Web Novel Chapter 243

Spoiler

"Look at the moon of creation, Aisha."

At Arcana's words, the silver-haired girl looks up to the heavens.

"The Magic Eye of Transgression is said to have even reshaped the order of the gods. If the same power is in your magic eye, then it can change the moon of creation from a crescent moon to a half moon."

Aisha poured magic power into the Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction and looked at the crescent moon Artieltonoa.

For a moment, she thought the outline of the moon was blurred, but there was no change.

"Isn't that impossible......?"

"I don't have enough magic."

Aisha concentrated her magic power in her Magic Eye, but it did not seem to have enough power to reshape the Moon of Creation.
[...]
"Then I'll give you the magic."

Sparkling, the snow and moon flowers begin to radiate a silvery white light.

"Snow is ephemeral, melting and vanishing. It leaves a remnant in your heart."

Fluttering snow and moon flowers fall on Aisha's body, which melts and turns into her magical power.

The Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction captures the moon in the sky.

Artieltonoa's radiance increased slightly.
[...]
Aisha stares at the moon, putting all her magic power into her Eyes of Creation and Destruction.

The outline of the moon blurred for a moment, and then the crescent moon of Artieltonoa, which had been hidden by the order, was gradually revealed.

With a shimmering and fantastic silvery white light, it turned into a half moon.

The power of the falling snow, moon, and flowers increased, protecting those standing on the ground even more firmly.

Even when it comes to affecting Order, the amount of magic power determines it's potency.
Aisha's eyes are incapable of affecting the order of creation despite having the ability to do so and the reason given is a insufficient magic power however, when given the magic power required, her eyes easily affect it.

Potency of abilities in the verse works on a system of magic power. The more magic power you have, the more potent your ability. Between users of relative amounts of magic power, the one with the larger one will be victorious as resistance can easily be overcome by increasing the amount of magic power used for the ability. Similarly, if it's a resistance based on anti-magic, you can strengthen/amplify that resistance by adding more magic power to your anti-magic which is exactly what Linka did in an attempt to resist however the magic power increase Misha received from the castle was greater than what Linka could manage.

Resistance also increases in proportion to one's magic power and characters gain new abilities by gaining magic power which is precisely how Misha gained this Matter Manipulation and Transmutation.

FIRE MANIPULATION​

---

As mentioned before, anti-magic is not a valid means of granting resistance to anything. However, despite looking through every volume for a source on magic power extinguishing flames, I couldn’t find anything, so I’m fairly certain this needs to go.

First off, there's also no scan provided to even justify this removal. Why was the word of someone who hasn't even read the series acknowledged? Yes, I say they haven't read the series with 100% certainty.

Volume 3 Chapter 41
The divine light in that scan is referring to Jerga's magic power and by expelling that magic power, not only was he unharmed, he also dispersed the flames.

Volume 1 Chapter 25
Another obvious case can be found here. Anos directly spawns a fire spell inside Ivis Necron (dura neg) and it explodes burning him from the inside out. In the end Ivis was unscathed by it and Anos simply remarks "as expected of a demon from the Era of Myths, you're tough". So it applies to all Demons from that era and Anos is easily at the top of the pecking order.

Volume 4 Chapter 68
So what does this have to say for the argument "anti-magic doesn't grant any resistance to fire"?

Light Novel Volume 5 official TL which will be out in October will also show dragons resisting not just flames but other elements with magic power so for now, here's the Web Novel version

Spoiler

聖剣の力を全開放し、レドリアーノは幾重にも重ねた魔法障壁の力を、数十倍に増幅させる。

「――はああぁぁぁぁぁぁぁっ！！」

彼はベイラメンテで大きく円を描く。

すると、受けとめていたブレスの力の方向が反転し、竜たちに跳ね返った。

ゴオオォォォォッとその炎に焼かれながらも、しかし、竜の群れは怯むことはない。その頑強な鱗と皮膚、そして魔力がブレスを完全に防いでいた。

Releasing the full power of the holy sword, Ledriano amplifies the power of the magical barrier several tenfold.

"--Haaaaaaaaaah!

He draws a big circle with <Bailamente>.

Then the direction of the breath he was receiving was reversed and bounced back to the dragons.

The dragons were not intimidated, however, even as they were consumed by the flames. Their tough scales and skin, as well as their magical power, completely protected them from the breath.

~Web Novel Chapter 224​

ANTI-MAGIC​

---

Now to finally get into the most irksome thing here.

Anti-magic is a topic frequently brought up in Maou Gakuin, but Anos’ page does a poor job of explaining what exactly it is. As the name implies, it acts as protection from magic, but it is decidedly not a resistance - as shown here, it’s a very distinct entity from magic resistance, and overreliance on it actually weakens one’s magic resistance. It is directly shown to interfere with or outright cancel magic, so it is moreso power nullification than “resistance” to any individual power.

For all that is said to be a failure on the supporters part to explain what it is, they end up doing worse at it. It is in this section where the lack of knowledge, contradictions and deceit will be exposed.

Beginning with what may very well be the biggest contradiction here, "what is anti-magic?" is so clearly stated in the very scans they used

His newly donned dark-gray armor had activated a circle of magic resistance

It's clearly defined as a magic of magic resistance which contradicts everything else implied by the OP in the thread. If anti-magic is magic of magic resistance, how is it a completely separate entity from magic resistance?

The 2nd scan is simply a very specific application of anti-magic that has been modified to affect only teleportation. This is pretty obvious because the characters there are capable of using every other form of magic freely (for reference, Anos summoning that spell in his opponent happened in this same place). No, it is not because Anos resists it as he said himself that it's made so that even he can't use teleportation there. Similar to this, there's another specific application which prevents the use of only telepathy and yes, other forms of magic continue to be used and there's others such as blocking the power of magic eyes which is ESP, information analysis, enhanced senses, clairvoyance etc.

The 3rd scan is the worst of them all. It is worded as "outrightly cancel out" to which everyone fell for hook, line and sinker. The scan shows he used anti-magic to sever the chains binding them not erase, nullify, cancel them out as was implied. Anti-magic was used to cut chains, of which the mechanics will be explained later so what does cutting chains have to do with power null?

As regards to the portion saying anti-magic weakens a character's resistances

His dependence on such toys had weakened his resistance to magic

This argument is false and likely stems from a lack of reading comprehension.
Making an analogy with a similar sentence, "Humanity's dependence on technology has lowered their ability to survive without it".
How many people can live comfortably without relying on any of the amenities modern civilization has to offer? Compared to the World's total population, it's as close to zero as possible however, at some point in time, it was indeed possible for everyone to survive without it.
With this analogy it becomes clear the statement implied Zepes over reliance on such items has has led to the degradation of his natural resistance and not "usage of anti-magic weakens one's resistance", even more so that it says "such items" and not "anti-magic", in other words, it is referencing his armor specifically not anti-magic. This character is simply too reliant on items to resist magic for him that his own personal resistance has declined.

---

Given its nature as power null, it has an obvious weakness: No means of countering physical attacks. Anos states this pretty clearly when he encounters a castle with anti-magic barriers in place and responds by casually yeeting it.

Anti-magic isn't cast as a barrier (it isn't always a barrier in the first place but can be made to be one), this is clearly shown in the manga. Anti-magic is simply cast on the castle itself to defend against magical attacks, there's no extending or protruding barrier to actually stop physical contact with the castle.
This proves absolutely nothing as there's nothing preventing one from actually making contact with the castle and just yeeting it.

---

This is again mentioned when Anos bypasses a door protected by anti-magic by pushing it open,

Same as the one above, this is meaningless as this is a door and a spell is cast/imbued onto the door itself not the opening to once again make it withstand magical attacks. There is nothing stopping the door from operating as a door by simply pushing or pulling it.
Nothing is being bypassed here and it's infact stated that the door is covered in anti-magic to prevent others from "magically destroying it" not impede entrance & exit or opening & closing to which Anos says to 'think about it. If you only concentrate on destroying it, you won't be able to move forward. If you can't destroy it, just open it normally' which he does.
Further context: it is a giant ass door heavy enough that opening it is considered more impressive than the feat of yeeting a castle.

---

and yet again when a casual sword swing from Ivis tears apart Anos’ anti-magic.

Casual? Sword swing? Where's the casual sword swing happening exactly? Not to mention that this is the faint layer of anti-magic he keeps around him at all times, in other words, it is weak.

Let's diverge into some powerscaling. Ivis had the added force of falling under gravity added to his attack. Apart from that, he is also accelerating faster than the rubble alongside him while falling showing he is using flight to actively increase his falling speed so no this isn't casual neither is it a swing, Anos also notes the weapon is an item from the Age of Myths the era were everything and everyone is ridiculously strong compared to the current era. The era where a random twig lying on the ground is more powerful than zepes demon sword that can amplify power tenfold.
Also, the OP so conveniently decided to leave out the part where Anos states he took the attack on purpose to draw Ivis closer.

Further supporting context, later on in this fight, the guardian god of time who is stronger than Ivis shows up and adds his power to Ivis own so that makes Ivis at least 2x stronger and later on he fuses with the weapon of the god which amplifies his power again by 20x. Later Anos easily blocks attacks from this stronger Ivis with an anti-magic barrier (barrier application) while having less than 1/3 of his full power. So a 40x stronger Ivis is unable to break the same barriers when Anos is over 66.66% weaker and he only breaks the barrier when he uses damage boost by pouring more magic power into his attacks proving Anos did allow himself to be harmed.

---

Finally, Anos’ anti-magic is easily overcome by Lay’s sword attacks.

I'll just copy what is already on the profile.
Information Manipulation (Type 2; At the core of every spell there is an existing theoretical and practical formula that allows it to function. A magical blueprint that determines the function of the magic. In addition, altering the spell formula changes the properties of the magic itself).
So that's what makes magic function and in relation to that, what does Lay's sword do? Demon Sword <Initio>, has the ability to directly slip past magic, cutting through the spell formula itself thus neutralizing it. It isn't overcoming the defense, it's using hax to nullify it.

Spoiler: RANT

Even the very scan shows it's cutting through the formula not the barrier, did anyone read the scans at all?
It's either one contradiction or the other or the scan presented already proving the points false. Give me a break.

It doesn't even need to be <Initio> or other swords with the same ability like <Gabreid>, other magic weapons use anti-magic same as how Anos used it to sever chains in the points made above to nullify magic by destroying the spell formula.

Spoiler: RANT

Okay let's assume the hax aspect of the sword is nonexistent, are you trying to tell me that a force field being broken by AP that's higher than it's durability= force field not being capable of taking physical attacks? What is that slap dash logic? Guess I'll have to go make a CRT so that it should be noted on every profile with force field creation, whether said force field has been broken by a physical attack or not because that would mean it can't take physical attacks.

---

From this, it’s quite clear that anti-magic is anti-magic alone; Regardless of what form it takes, enough raw muscle can bypass it.

Come to think of it, there was a previous back and forth regarding an issue pertaining to this. If you're unable to recall what I'm referring to, allow me to jog your memory, does..."limited invulnerability to purely physical attacks", ring any bells?

Volume 2 Chapter 19
I guess this is an opportune time to bring this back. A weapon without magic power, is incapable of breaking this barrier, infact, in-verse any weapon without any magic power regardless of the material it's fashioned from or the strength of it's wielder will simply be destroyed if it clashes with a true magic sword/weapon.

Regarding the scenario in the scan, Anos says he is capable of breaking the barrier with his bare hand but not the sword a contradiction? I think not as there is no logical explanation why a strike done with a weapon will lack more force compared to a strike done bare handed.
Pressure= Force/Area. A bladed weapon would apply the force of a swing along the thin edge of its blade dealing more damage and the weight of the weapon itself also increases the force of the blow and despite this Anos says the sword can't destroy it but his bare hand can and what Anos bare hand has that the sword lacks is magic power and to prove this point, he specifically overcomes this predicament by supplying the weapon with his own magic power.

Spoiler

Since I'm the one handling the scaling, this version of Anos massively scales above a 6-C value while his opponent at best is only in 7-B so going by the baseline of these tiers it amounts to a massive difference of over 2,200x.

Volume 3 Chapter 23
Even ignoring what I've said above, a character is unharmed by Anos smashing them into the ground and while it's a durability feat, both their own anti-magic barrier and that of the weapon plays a part in it.

---

So anti-magic is pretty clearly power null, which means it should be removed from the resistance tabber and moved to Anos’ power null justifications.

False. Anti-magic is a magic of magic resistance it's in the scan.

However, this is just the start of the issues. Anti-magic barriers and armor are reliant on the discrepancy in power level between caster and defender;

Force fields are not indestructible, hit them with AP greater than their durability and they will break. A force field is an immaterial shield. More magic power= more AP and anti-magic being broken through AP or any other means does not discredit its ability to resist magic. Even if broken it can be immediately cast again and it being broken depends on how it is used (barrier or no barrier). Profiles index abilities & resistances obtained through other means such as equipment. Do we remove these things from the profile simply because they can be taken away/destroyed in battle?

---

Against origin magic like Jirasd, a typical anti-magic barrier won’t hold because of the vast increase in power.

A completely baseless argument. Barriers cast by a couple of nobodies in the magical era. What is such a barrier that would have a durability of 7-B at best supposed to do against an attack with at least 6-C AP? This specific Jirasd used by Leorg in this scenario wouldn't even scratch an anti-magic barrier created by the mainstream of characters in the current volume (Would also like to see how well this point ages when the same anti-magic is used to block attacks that destroy multiverses).

Volume 4 Chapter 37
This chapter introduces us to Ancient runes used in times long before the mythical age. With proper understanding of ancient runes, one can take a little amount of magic power and amplify it infinitely/indefinitely.
In a competition, Anos opponent uses these runes to cast his own spell, <Mezoavus> while Anos uses origin magic <Jirasd> and ofc, this one scales to cast that ate at least 4-C.
The opponents spell overpowers Anos' own and continues heading straight for him which he blocks with an anti-magic barrier so now I ask, what does this say for the argument that anti-magic can't block a spell like <jirasd> when it blocks spells that far outstrips it?
Ignoring that completely, this is a matter of hax...power null vs resistance...so what does AP have to do with it? Does this wiki assume that power null that has only nullified something in tier 8 can do the same for tier 3?

---

Ivis clearly states that Anos’ magic is far more powerful than his, which allows his anti-magic barriers to be torn apart

Once again we are back to AP arguments. I grow tired of this, why wouldn't a 6-C attack break 7-A force fields?

(this also showcases another flaw of anti-magic: it’s possible to bypass barriers entirely if you just cast a spell inside of it lol).

Arguably the flimsiest argument here with a good laugh at itself to boot.
It is possible to just bypass barriers entirely if you just cast a spell inside of it, was this scan even read?
Anos cast the magic, inside of Ivis (inside his body which is a feat of dura neg) so what was meant here by inside the barrier? I guess it's a normal thing so everyone should feel free to add dura neg to every profile since conjuring attacks inside somebody is a very easy thing everyone can do.

Finally, while there are likely other examples, volume 2 makes explicit mention of how anti-magic is reliant on the power difference between the magic and anti-magic;

Great, what is a High 8-C barrier supposed to do against a freaking 7-B opponent especially when these tiers are determined by the magic power in these attacks and defenses? The build up of contradictions here is insane. The argument being made is for power null and still there is no power null happening just stronger attacks overpowering weaker defenses.

Any anti-magic can be overcome if you just… make your magic stronger. So while anti-magic is power null, it has a very clearly defined limitation in regards to its mechanics.

Yes, a characters AP can simply be increased by adding magic to the attack. The amount of magic power a person has dictates their stats that's how the universal energy system works.
This isn't the Naruto verse that has normal chakra, more potent types of chakra so there's no such thing as making your magic stronger however, you deal more damage by increasing the magic power in your attacks. Statistics amplification can be achieved by releasing magic power from your body, magic power simply enhances what ever it is put into be it strength, speed, toughness, magic attacks, hax and resistance after all a forest which had it's river, mountain and vegetation blown away turning it into a wasteland would simply regenerate every thing overnight because it is overflowing with magic power.

There is no limitation to it's mechanism, the more magic, the more AP, hax layers, resistance layers simple as that.

---

Notably, this would mean Venuzdonoa loses its resistance to power null, as it overcoming “layers upon layers of anti-magic” hardly means anything when it’s a sword, which is a physical attack.

I don't care about this one honestly. I never agreed with overpowering anti-magic to mean the attacker resists power null in the first place because it was never power null, now act 2 of volume 4 is out and there's an actual feat for Venuzdonoa. The eye's of destruction are not capable of nullifying Venuzdonoa's abilities so the sword should get its resistance to power null reinstated with that scan as well as a resistance to deconstruction (All abilities of the Eye is from destruction). Reference is Volume 4 Chapter 71.

CLOSURE​

---

Anti-magic has several applications some deviating from its original purpose and that is magic resistance. At the end of the day, what the characters use to defend themselves is anti-magic be it by simply activating it like zepes armor or actually creating a barrier and whether that barrier can be broken or not is irrelevant.

Regarding the resistances it gives, that is case by case. Using the barrier to block fire, ice doesn't mean a resistance to those will be indexed which is the reason why Anos resistance to space-time manipulation doesn't come from an anti-magic barrier blocking attacks that cut through space-time...wait a damn minute, it's not there! He can catch attacks which cut through time-space with his bare hands.
Basically simply blocking magical attacks doesn't mean a resistance to that attack will be added however, when these characters wear these barriers of magic resistance like a 2nd skin and use it to overcome hax like space-time BFR, madness manipulation, transmutation, curse manipulation, statistics reduction, power nullification, conceptual manipulation, existence erasure etc, you can be sure as hell that it is a genuine resistance because no random ass shield is going to prevent something thay doesn't even require contact.

"Anti-magic" and "magic resistance" are terms used interchangeably. For example, from the same CRT

This one’s pretty legit; It’s repeatedly confirmed that the ability to resist this is reliant on, well, resistance. So just add these scans and we’ll be good to go.

The same scan used to say anti-magic is just power null (the part involving the armor) is used for what they say requires "legit resistance" to body puppetry...see the contradiction here? This makes contradiction no. 2 in the CRT as regards the topic of anti-magic.
It is the very same armor used in the scan and it even mentions the armor is used to ward off/defend against/protect from all forms of magic not nullify magic so why does it so conveniently put it under power null in one case and resistance in the other just to match an agenda?

The terms "magic resistance" and "anti-magic" are being used interchangeably as even a quick google translate of the raws (about Zepes' armor) translates where magic resistance is used in the official TL as anti-magic same as a deepl translation of the web novel so the translators portray both as being the same. I've also inquired from @Chasekilleen about it and this is the response

Spoiler

As an aside, if any arguments that this is only resistance to magic and not resistance to a particular ability, come up, they would receive a hard no.
It is shown working on non-magical things like sound waves & vibrations and even physical attacks (shall be addressed later). In that scan, his heartbeat had to pass through the gaps in the armor to affect zepes and without those gaps it would've done nothing.

Taking a look at another obvious resistance on the profile–Time Stop.
This resistance is from the Magic Eyes of Destruction which is said to be the ultimate form of anti-magic.
It is the ultimate form because of it's ability to destroy/nullify magic not just resist.
It's obvious the time stop wasn't nullified/erased/destroyed, only resisted infact, Sasha Necron is outrightly stated to have resisted the time stop of the guardian god of time with her eye's of destruction.
She was affected by said time stop when the eye's were not active however while already being frozen in time, these eye's activated on their own granting not just her but also extending it's effects to her sister as well. If the eyes don't grant this resistance, how did they activate when the owner was already frozen in time? It's even shown by the sequence of events were they slowly but surely resisted the ability not immediately being unaffected by it.
Volume 3 Chapter 22
Here as well the workings of the eye are depicted. Sasha while caught in a spell that induces paralysis and power nullification had to use the eye's to actually nullify the spell she didn't resist it even when the eye's were active.

Come to think of it, if anti-magic is power nullification, how do characters still use their magic while using anti-magic without interference? You're keeping power null around your body, how do you still summon a fire ball in your hand without the power null interfering with it?
In the specific applications like teleportation, telepathy, ESP, info analysis, clairvoyance it never nullified/negated the use of this ability. For teleportation, it doesn't stop you from activating it, it just blocks the shifting same for telepathy and mind reading it simply blocks/jams communication/transmissions (is jamming radio/electromagnetic waves now power nullification? Why is it power null here, because it utilizes magic to send and receive transmissions?) same goes for ESP, clairvoyance etc it prevents magic eyes from running analysis on you, locating/observing you so if it's power null why doesn't anyone go blind since it should be nullifying their sight?

At this point it should be obvious to anyone who has and hasn't read the story, both officially translated content and web novel alike. If you look, you'll find other feats of anti-magic taking not just magical attacks but physical ones as well and also being a means of resisting abilities and the same goes for magic power as shown here

Spoiler

彼女の乏しい魔力では、この緊縛牢獄への抵抗力がないのだろう。
[…]
With her meager magical power, she would not be able to resist this bondage prison.

~Web Novel Chapter 400​

Including here as well

Spoiler

「もう、みんなして。心配いらないわ。あれから魔力もずいぶん上がったし、毒への抵抗力だって強くなったんだから。致死性の毒だって耐えられるのに、お酒なんかで酔うはずないわ」
[...]
I'm not going to let you guys down. Don't worry. My magical power has increased a lot since then, and my resistance to poison has become stronger. I can withstand lethal poisons, so I shouldn't be intoxicated by alcohol.

~Web Novel Chapter 286​

Raws and links are available for anyone doubting the translation, staff are also welcome to seek out the opinion of a translation helper.

There's still more. Reno one of few individuals who resist <Beno Ievun> won't easily resist it anymore because she is weakened from expending nigh-infinite amounts of magic power.
Summing all these up, apart from determining and enhancing physical attributes & AP, you have magic power inducing reactive evolution such that they gain new abilities, layering hax to overcome resistance, determining the potency of one's hax, layering one's resistance, determining the level of one's resistance and this will go on in the series that it affects entire universes, their laws & concepts. It isn't a "your ability doesn't work because I am stronger", it's "my abilities and resistance become more potent the stronger I am". In the end the stronger ones end up having the more potent hax because this system affects those as well.

"Strength", "power" etc are all just synonyms used to still refer to how much magic power one has as you'll notice some of the scans such as this one switching between magic power, magic, strength, power and it has even been used to showcase a difference in skill, knowledge and intelligence so claiming the use of "strength" and "power" as an indication of a reliance on power difference is simply a name and association fallacy same as saying anti-magic is power nullification simply because of it's name.

CONCLUSION​

---

The changes from the CRT should be reverted and the following abilities and resistances should be added in the profile

• Electricity Manipulation (ability and resistance as for all the talk about the resistance, the ability itself is missing)
• Limited Invulnerability to physical attacks via anti-magic
• Resistance to Sound & Vibration Manipulation for anti-magic resisting those types of attacks.
• Durability Negation
• Resistance to Space-time manipulation

In addition, the Body Puppetry resistance isn't just for body puppetry but compulsion magic in general (the ability to compel opponents with words). It's effects extend past just body puppetry and ventures into Fear Manipulation (is in the same scan the OP used), Power Nullification (Covered by the eye's of destruction already so no need), Curse Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation.

Agree (5): @DarkDragonMedeus, @LordGriffin1000 , @DarkGrath, @Elizhaa, @Dereck03
Neutral:
Disagree: Theglassman12 (Anti-magic resistance, resistance to fire, electricity, addressed nothing else), Deagonx (Same as glassman)

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We already discussed multiple times in discord

So Obviously Agree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

holy shit that's a lot of words, give me time to respond

 

[Robo432343]

holy shit that's a lot of words, give me time to respond

No.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Gaining resistance by putting on anti magic barrier seems valid. Though it should be noted that it is granted through that and should also be put on weakness section that their resistance depends on their magic power and if they somehow deplete or low. Their resistance will as well weakened.

Tbh seeing how magical power is basically tied to AP, durability, and resistance it should be classified as UES. But its also important to explain the weakness of said ability.

And although it is not a topic of the CRT. The improvement of resistance seem to work on the stronger your resistance to poison the more you can resist other much more poisonous substance. It starts from Alcohol to lethal poison.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

@LordGriffin1000 @DarkGrath @DarkDragonMedeus

@EldemadeDityjon wants your help. Now, off I go with things that I have to do. Hehe.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Though it should be noted that it is granted through that and should also be put on weakness section that their resistance depends on their magic power and if they somehow deplete or low.

Doesn't work that way. The amount you have already determines the level of your resistance so it doesn't fluctuate. What is affected by the amount is the ability to layer said hax/resistance.

In Anos vs Melheis, his resistance to beno Ieven wasn't lowered by him expending magic however, Melheis made Beno Ievun more potent by adding magic

The improvement of resistance seem to work on the stronger your resistance to poison the more you can resist other much more poisonous substance. It starts from Alcohol to lethal poison.

No, the increase in magic is what led to an increase to her poison resistance. Poison and alcohol have been said to be the same inverse, after all we're talking about alcohol levels that destroy sources.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

ELECTRICITY MANIPULATION​

---

This isn't even where the resistance comes from in the first place.
The resistance stems from Jerga being unaffected by <Jirasd> by protecting himself with his magic power by expelling it from his body, those unable to resist it are reduced to ashes by the heat of the lightning.

That's not even what those scans say. The first one says that Jerga dispelled Jirasd, but it doesn't say how he does it (occam's razor would say power null, since that's usually what "dispel" means). The first one just mentions someone casting Jirasd without anybody resisting it.

Ice Manipulation, Matter Manipulation & Transmutation​

---

Misha's opponent failed to resist it because Misha's powers became more potent. Anti-magic can resist it as shown with the opponent strengthening her defenses. Why would she waste her magic on such a mundane action otherwise? If one were to look closely at the surrounding context, they'd find the attempt at resistance failed because Misha had just gained a massive increase to her abilities as I said above.

Yknow I'm just not gonna bother with this one, because nothing even shows that anybody resists this at any point. The only thing close is Misha lacking sufficient magic power to affect people, but that's... literally just a weakness of how magic works and isn't a feat for everyone else.

Volume 3 Chapter 41
The divine light in that scan is referring to Jerga's magic power and by expelling that magic power, not only was he unharmed, he also dispersed the flames.

Idk if extinguishing fire is the same as resisting it, but seeing as Jerga seemed to be unbothered by the fire in the first place, I'd say he (and he alone) would have a resistance.

Volume 1 Chapter 25
Another obvious case can be found here. Anos directly spawns a fire spell inside Ivis Necron (dura neg) and it explodes burning him from the inside out. In the end Ivis was unscathed by it and Anos simply remarks "as expected of a demon from the Era of Myths, you're tough". So it applies to all Demons from that era and Anos is easily at the top of the pecking order.

Ivis is literally in agony in that scene and it says he was struggling to suppress it, he isn't "resisting" shit lol

Volume 4 Chapter 68
So what does this have to say for the argument "anti-magic doesn't grant any resistance to fire"?

Light Novel Volume 5 official TL which will be out in October will also show dragons resisting not just flames but other elements with magic power so for now, here's the Web Novel version
聖剣の力を全開放し、レドリアーノは幾重にも重ねた魔法障壁の力を、数十倍に増幅させる。

「――はああぁぁぁぁぁぁぁっ！！」

彼はベイラメンテで大きく円を描く。

すると、受けとめていたブレスの力の方向が反転し、竜たちに跳ね返った。

ゴオオォォォォッとその炎に焼かれながらも、しかし、竜の群れは怯むことはない。その頑強な鱗と皮膚、そして魔力がブレスを完全に防いでいた。

Releasing the full power of the holy sword, Ledriano amplifies the power of the magical barrier several tenfold.

"--Haaaaaaaaaah!

He draws a big circle with <Bailamente>.

Then the direction of the breath he was receiving was reversed and bounced back to the dragons.

The dragons were not intimidated, however, even as they were consumed by the flames. Their tough scales and skin, as well as their magical power, completely protected them from the breath.

~Web Novel Chapter 224​

Well the first one says "his anti-magic was unable to resist the flames of god", for starters. I do not think a statement of not being able to resist something is grounds for being able to resist that thing. The second one also attributes the dragons' resistances to their scales and skin, so while they can keep those resistances, it wouldn't scale to anyone else.

ANTI-MAGIC​

Alright, I'm not gonna even bother with this for now because the vast majority of it is just you nitpicking my explanations, and I have no intention of derailing the thread with semantics. However, doing a quick skim shows that there just... aren't any scans where anti-magic is shown to work like a resistance and not power null. Can you please post the scans that are supposed to argue that point, and not tangentially related bullshit?

"I don't care about this one honestly. I never agreed with overpowering anti-magic to mean the attacker resists power null in the first place because it was never power null, now act 2 of volume 4 is out and there's an actual feat for Venuzdonoa. The eye's of destruction are not capable of nullifying Venuzdonoa's abilities so the sword should get its resistance to power null reinstated with that scan as well as a resistance to deconstruction (All abilities of the Eye is from destruction). Reference is Volume 4 Chapter 71."

This is fine yeah

"In addition, the Body Puppetry resistance isn't just for body puppetry but compulsion magic in general (the ability to compel opponents with words). It's effects extend past just body puppetry and ventures into Fear Manipulation (is in the same scan the OP used), Power Nullification (Covered by the eye's of destruction already so no need), Curse Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation."

okay but like
why

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Doesn't work that way. The amount you have already determines the level of your resistance so it doesn't fluctuate. What is affected by the amount is the ability to layer said hax/resistance.

In Anos vs Melheis, his resistance to beno Ieven wasn't lowered by him expending magic however, Melheis made Beno Ievun more potent by adding magic
No, the increase in magic is what led to an increase to her poison resistance. Poison and alcohol have been said to be the same inverse, after all we're talking about alcohol levels that destroy sources.

I lacked that context with the alcohol so sure.

As for how it can be layered thats a bigger discussion to have best to save on another thread lets get it accepted first since when talking about layers we have to consider hax potency, hax resistance, range, and mechanism

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

In Anos vs Melheis, his resistance to beno Ieven wasn't lowered by him expending magic however, Melheis made Beno Ievun more potent by adding magic
No, the increase in magic is what led to an increase to her poison resistance. Poison and alcohol have been said to be the same inverse, after all we're talking about alcohol levels that destroy sources.

Oh yeah in regards to this; While I'm fine with this applying to poison resistance, nothing implies it'd extend beyond that, and it isn't even relevant to anti-magic anyways since it explicitly says it's a result of magic power. Also a source on that "alcohol can destroy sources" thing because that's either some really wacky alcohol or this is an incredibly stupid weakness for sources.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I agree with OP.

 

[Fixxed]

Basically almost everything can be resisted in MGF if you have more magic power (except if that ability already being deepened)

I just think we must made page that explain about resistence, magic power, and potance of ability. So we not have to make the CRT too long for explain that again and again

 

[Tatsumi504]

That's not even what those scans say. The first one says that Jerga dispelled Jirasd, but it doesn't say how he does it (occam's razor would say power null, since that's usually what "dispel" means). The first one just mentions someone casting Jirasd without anybody resisting it.

Dispel–make (a doubt, feeling, or belief) disappear.
"the brightness of the day did nothing to dispel Elaine's dejection"
Synonyms:

• Banish
• Eliminate
• Drive off/away
• Dismiss
• Chase away.

Occams razor wouldn't say power null as the word has no bearing towards that information. The sequence of events was explicitly written and in no way does it imply he power nulled it, if anything he pushed it off himself which doesn't counter the fact his body was exposed to the lightning for a while and still he wasn't burnt by it.

Did you mean the 2nd one? There doesn't need to be any showing of resisting it there as it is just to show the effects of the lightning – burning people to ashes. Jerga took the brunt of this and came out unscathed

Yknow I'm just not gonna bother with this one, because nothing even shows that anybody resists this at any point. The only thing close is Misha lacking sufficient magic power to affect people, but that's... literally just a weakness of how magic works and isn't a feat for everyone else.

So concession? You're ignoring the entire semantics and course of events, you also missed were Aeges and Kaihilam's weapons got affected but they didn't.
Weakness of magic? Please outline what implies a weakness there when the eye has already affected everything else. The potency of the eyes were not enough to affect the order of creation with the amount of magic power Aisha had, said potency then increased when Arcana gives her magic power.

Ivis is literally in agony in that scene and it says he was struggling to suppress it, he isn't "resisting" shit lol

Suppress meaning put it out/ extinguish. Nothing indicates agony (agony is a higher level of pain). Not immediately extinguishing fire≠ no resistance. Ivis took an attack that can burn anything without leaving ashes behind and Ivis is among the bottom of the barrel of mythical era demons who can perform the same feat

Well the first one says "his anti-magic was unable to resist the flames of god", for starters. I do not think a statement of not being able to resist something is grounds for being able to resist that thing. The second one also attributes the dragons' resistances to their scales and skin, so while they can keep those resistances, it wouldn't scale to anyone else.

His anti-magic not being able to resist is directly proportionate to saying someone else's anti-magic can resist added to the fact those are not actual flames.
"Their scales and skin as well as their magic power". Both are separate entities and magic power is something everyone has. Nothing implies their scales and magic power work in tandem to produce the resistance so it applies to everyone with magic power.

Alright, I'm not gonna even bother with this for now because the vast majority of it is just you nitpicking my explanations, and I have no intention of derailing the thread with semantics. However, doing a quick skim shows that there just... aren't any scans where anti-magic is shown to work like a resistance and not power null. Can you please post the scans that are supposed to argue that point, and not tangentially related bullshit?

So concession again? Everything I've written is related to it. The first few sentences in this part already indcate massive contradictions in your reasoning where anti-magic is clearly said to be a magic of magic resistance and I already made it clear that this is structured as a response to the previous CRT.

okay but like
why

It's all compulsion magic. Magic power in the words causes the victim to do every the other one says/states. It's been used as a curse, used to manipulate minds, induce paralysis, power null, induce fear etc and all fall under compulsion magic.

Edit: Imma need to confirm the mind manipulation of the compulsion magic part so put that on hold (it might be from a separate ability)

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Oh yeah in regards to this; While I'm fine with this applying to poison resistance, nothing implies it'd extend beyond that, and it isn't even relevant to anti-magic anyways since it explicitly says it's a result of magic power. Also a source on that "alcohol can destroy sources" thing because that's either some really wacky alcohol or this is an incredibly stupid weakness for sources.

It extends. That entire portion shows potency of abilities and resistance increasing in direct proportion to an increase in magic power.
It doesn't pertain to the CRT so I didn't add it, it's also something that'll be too hard for me to properly translate but if you really want to see it let me know and I'll get back to you

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Dispel–make (a doubt, feeling, or belief) disappear.
"the brightness of the day did nothing to dispel Elaine's dejection"
Synonyms:

• Banish
• Eliminate
• Drive off/away
• Dismiss
• Chase away.

Occams razor wouldn't say power null as the word has no bearing towards that information. The sequence of events explicitly was written and in no way does it imply he power nulled it, if anything he pushed it off himself which doesn't counter the fact his body was exposed to the lightning for a while and still he wasn't burnt by it.

None of those definitions imply resistance either though.... If something was said to banish or eliminate magic, then that'd still be power null. Which means your second point has no grounding either, because Jirasd was dispelled and therefore nullified.

So concession? You're ignoring the entire semantics and course of events, you also missed were Aeges and Kaihilam's weapons got affected but they didn't.
Weakness of magic? Please outline what implies a weakness there when the eye has already affected everything else. The potency of the eyes were not enough to affect the order of creation with the amount of magic power Aisha had, said potency then increased when Arcana gives her magic power.

Literally just post a scan where characters resist this ability. That's all I'm asking for. Until then, I'll keep ignoring semantics because semantics are the only thing you've got as an argument.

Suppress meaning put it out/ extinguish. Nothing indicates agony (agony is a higher level of pain). Not immediately extinguishing fire≠ no resistance. Ivis took an attack that can burn anything without leaving ashes behind and Ivis is among the bottom of the barrel of mythical era demons who can perform the same feat

When the scan says it "destroyed his insides" and the following text is him going "Gaah! Wh-What is this power?!" then it is quite evident that he does not, in fact, resist it. I can't just slap a resistance to explosion manipulation on any character who gets their limbs blown off by a grenade just because "well they didn't die immediately".

His anti-magic not being able to resist is directly proportionate to saying someone else's anti-magic can resist added to the fact those are not actual flames.
"Their scales and skin as well as their magic power". Both are separate entities and magic power is something everyone has. Nothing implies their scales and magic power work in tandem to produce the resistance so it applies to everyone with magic power.

No the **** it isn't, what are you even talking about lol

The dragon thing is weird because you're focusing solely on the magic power aspect of that statement and not the scales and skin part. We don't know which part is doing the heavy lifting, so it's really hard to scale to anyone. It's notable, but not really quantifiable imo

So concession again? Everything I've written is related to it. The first few sentences in this part already indcate massive contradictions in your reasoning where anti-magic is clearly said to be a magic of magic resistance and I already made it clear that this is structured as a response to the previous CRT.

"A lot of what you said isn't relevant to the topic, so could you break it down into what is relevant?"
"Ahah, so you conceded?"
yeah man okay

It's all compulsion magic. Magic power in the words causes the victim to do every the other one says/states. It's been used as a curse, used to manipulate minds, induce paralysis, power null, induce fear etc and all fall under compulsion magic.

Well I gathered that, I moreso meant that I'd like to see the reasoning for those.

It extends. That entire portion shows potency of abilities and resistance increasing in direct proportion to an increase in magic power.

Where does it say that?

 

[Tatsumi504]

None of those definitions imply resistance either though.... If something was said to banish or eliminate magic, then that'd still be power null. Which means your second point has no grounding either, because Jirasd was dispelled and therefore nullified.

They don't need to imply resistance, not being burned by something that burns others to ashes is textbook resistance. It doesn't need to be said he resisted it.

Cause effect relationship. Dispelling it does not defeat the fact he was exposed to it's negative effects for a significant amount of time without burning to ashes

Literally just post a scan where characters resist this ability. That's all I'm asking for. Until then, I'll keep ignoring semantics because semantics are the only thing you've got as an argument.

It is literally there.

Misha: glares at them, breaks through their anti-magic and reconstructs their weapons

Aeges & Kaihilam: Unaffected, weapons turned into ice.
This isn't a battleboarding story so you won't see statements like "x resisted y" flying around. Also note the anti-magic needed to be broken too before even the weapons could be affected so once again, the anti-magic resistance is present.

When the scan says it "destroyed his insides" and the following text is him going "Gaah! Wh-What is this power?!" then it is quite evident that he does not, in fact, resist it. I can't just slap a resistance to explosion manipulation on any character who gets their limbs blown off by a grenade just because "well they didn't die immediately".

The standard function of fire is to burn thus if you are not burned by fire you resist it. Jio graze is an explosion so yes it will destroy his insides now show where it says "his insides were burned". He received damage from the explosion/AP but no damage from the fire.
When did I give any resistance to explosions?

The dragon thing is weird because you're focusing solely on the magic power aspect of that statement and not the scales and skin part. We don't know which part is doing the heavy lifting, so it's really hard to scale to anyone. It's notable, but not really quantifiable imo

It is quantifiable as levels of fire resistance is dependent on the heat. Whether one part does heavy lifting or not does not deny the fact that individually both grant resistance.

"A lot of what you said isn't relevant to the topic, so could you break it down into what is relevant?"

It actually is as the topic required branching off to other required explanations and evidence. I honestly have no idea how to shorten it but the biggest points made that you consider relevant are:

1. Anti-magic is a magic of magic resistance
2. Anti-magic and magic resistance are terms used interchangeably
3. It cannot be power nullification as bot anti-magic and other magic are used in tandem with interfering with the other
4. It doesn't power null any ability, has been shown to be used as a means of resistance
5. Clearly offers resistance to non-magical effects
6. Works against physical attacks (I don't know what drove you to even include this in that CRT as it means nothing)
7. It doesn't rely on a system of being stronger, it works based on magic power

And a host of others including explaining how magic power is a universal energy system etc

 

[Tatsumi504]

Well I gathered that, I moreso meant that I'd like to see the reasoning for those.

The reasoning? You mean compulsion magic showing those effects? If so, here

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

They don't need to imply resistance, not being burned by something that burns others to ashes is textbook resistance. It doesn't need to be said he resisted it.

Uh huh. Yeah. So if I pour water on a fire, that means I innately have resistance to fire?

The reasoning? You mean compulsion magic showing those effects? If so, here

To me it just looks like the paralysis is a function of the body puppetry, not really it's own ability. Seems redundant tbh. Curse manipulation is fine.

Cause effect relationship. Dispelling it does not defeat the fact he was exposed to it's negative effects for a significant amount of time without burning to ashes

I mean I already conceded to Jerga having a resistance, I just don't think it should be applied to anyone else.

It is literally there.

Misha: glares at them, breaks through their anti-magic and reconstructs their weapons

Aeges & Kaihilam: Unaffected, weapons turned into ice.
This isn't a battleboarding story so you won't see statements like "x resisted y" flying around. Also note the anti-magic needed to be broken too before even the weapons could be affected so once again, the anti-magic resistance is present.

I've reread that section like 5 times now and I still cannot find what you're talking about, can you post it again for clarity?

The standard function of fire is to burn thus if you are not burned by fire you resist it. Jio graze is an explosion so yes it will destroy his insides now show where it says "his insides were burned". He received damage from the explosion/AP but no damage from the fire.
When did I give any resistance to explosions?

This is semantic bullshit and you know it; Anos used a fire spell, it obliterated Ivis' insides, therefore he does not resist it. I also didn't say you gave resistance to explosions, I was making a comparison.

It is quantifiable as levels of fire resistance is dependent on the heat. Whether one part does heavy lifting or not does not deny the fact that individually both grant resistance.

Uh, okay? That's true but it has no relevance to the feat at hand, so my point stands.

It cannot be power nullification as bot anti-magic and other magic are used in tandem with interfering with the other

I'm only gonna address this because the rest is just dancing around my request for you to post specific examples of anti-magic being used to resist - not nullify - magic, while leaving out all the unrelated rants in the OP.

That isn't true; Characters are rarely if ever affected by their own abilities in fiction. No character who has an aura is assumed to resist said aura by default. I could give any number of examples of characters with passive power null who aren't affected by their aura, not because of a resistance, but because they just... aren't. Same for any passive, or any AoE ability (soul absorption, mind hax, paralysis, etc). In the case of active abilities, one example would be Dio not being affected by The World's time stop because it's his own damn ability.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Uh huh. Yeah. So if I pour water on a fire, that means I innately have resistance to fire?

Water gets evaporated when it comes into contact with fire. This point is moot

To me it just looks like the paralysis is a function of the body puppetry, not really it's own ability. Seems redundant tbh. Curse manipulation is fine.

Agree to disagree. If it's redundant I can remove it

I've reread that section like 5 times now and I still cannot find what you're talking about, can you post it again for clarity?

Spoiler

アイシャが、イージェスとカイヒラムを睨む。

その＜創滅の魔眼＞が、彼らの反魔法を突破し、魔弓と魔槍に干渉する。

「……おのれぇ……」

「……話に違わぬ、凄まじい魔眼よ……」

ディヒッドアテムとネテロアウヴスは瞬く間に氷の結晶へと変わる。

その魔眼から逃れるように、冥王と詛王は飛び退いた。

「逃がさないわ」

「どれだけ離れても視界にいる限り同じ」

アイシャが追撃するように＜創滅の魔眼＞に魔力を込め、二人を睨みつける。
Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam.

Her <Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction> breaks through their anti-magic and interferes with their magic bow and spear.

"......, you ......"

"......, just as its said, you've got a great magic eye. ......"

Dihidatem and Neteroauvus are instantly transformed into ice crystals.

To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back.

"I won't let you escape."

"No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same."

This is semantic bullshit and you know it; Anos used a fire spell, it obliterated Ivis' insides, therefore he does not resist it. I also didn't say you gave resistance to explosions, I was making a comparison.

It destroyed his insides not burned it there is a difference not to mention Anos notes he took no damage. Show where it's said he was burned by the fire

That isn't true; Characters are rarely if ever affected by their own abilities in fiction. No character who has an aura is assumed to resist said aura by default. I could give any number of examples of characters with passive power null who aren't affected by their aura, not because of a resistance, but because they just... aren't. Same for any passive, or any AoE ability (soul absorption, mind hax, paralysis, etc). In the case of active abilities, one example would be Dio not being affected by The World's time stop because it's his own damn ability.

Yeah except there are many instances of the characters being affected by their own abilities. Zepes armor isn't his ability still he could use magic while wearing it and it is said to "ward of all magic".
Anos being affected by his own spells such as the anti-magic that prevents teleportation, being affected by beno Ieven that erases everything, Venuzdonoa being used against him, heck the voldigoad bloodline needs to resist their own destruction, the gods are not exempt from their own order etc

 

[Orioreeem]

Seems fine

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Water gets evaporated when it comes into contact with fire. This point is moot

wh
what
are you implying that water doesn't put out fire????????????????

Agree to disagree. If it's redundant I can remove it

Spoiler

アイシャが、イージェスとカイヒラムを睨む。

その＜創滅の魔眼＞が、彼らの反魔法を突破し、魔弓と魔槍に干渉する。

「……おのれぇ……」

「……話に違わぬ、凄まじい魔眼よ……」

ディヒッドアテムとネテロアウヴスは瞬く間に氷の結晶へと変わる。

その魔眼から逃れるように、冥王と詛王は飛び退いた。

「逃がさないわ」

「どれだけ離れても視界にいる限り同じ」

アイシャが追撃するように＜創滅の魔眼＞に魔力を込め、二人を睨みつける。
Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam.

Her <Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction> breaks through their anti-magic and interferes with their magic bow and spear.

"......, you ......"

"......, just as its said, you've got a great magic eye. ......"

Dihidatem and Neteroauvus are instantly transformed into ice crystals.

To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back.

"I won't let you escape."

"No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same."

"To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back."
They didn't resist anything, they explicitly dodged it lmao

It destroyed his insides not burned it there is a difference not to mention Anos notes he took no damage. Show where it's said he was burned by the fire

I'm not debating this with you, anyone who bothers to read the scan can see clear as day that he was, in fact, harmed by it. It is literally as simple as "Anos casts a fire spell inside Ivis' body --> Ivis is harmed by it --> Therefore Ivis does not resist it". You're making something extremely blatant so much more complicated than it needs to be.

Yeah except there are many instances of the characters being affected by their own abilities. Zepes armor isn't his ability still he could use magic while wearing it and it is said to "ward of all magic".
Anos being affected by his own spells such as the anti-magic that prevents teleportation, being affected by beno Ieven that erases everything, Venuzdonoa being used against him, heck the voldigoad bloodline needs to resist their own destruction, the gods are not exempt from their own order etc

I don't know what to tell you other than that's never how we've done things. Characters in fiction are not affected by their abilities when used by them unless otherwise stated; It's one of those illogical compromises we have to make in VS debating.

This also doesn't even make sense from a logical standpoint either, because how is Ivis not frozen in time every time he stops time if this is the case? How has Misha not turned herself into a block of ice? How does Sasha not nullify her powers and enter a coma every time she opens her eyes? Why isn't Anos cowering in fear of himself every time he speaks? If you go with the logic of "all characters in MGK affect themselves with their own abilities", then you don't get to just pick and choose. Just, stop and think about how fundamentally illogical all of this is.

 

[Tatsumi504]

"To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back."
They didn't resist anything, they explicitly dodged it lmao

Yes because it is possible to dodge kilometers wide AoE while inside. Did you conveniently choose to ignore where the weapons were frozen but they weren't?

It is literally as simple as "Anos casts a fire spell inside Ivis' body --> Ivis is harmed by it --> Therefore Ivis does not resist it". You're making something extremely blatant so much more complicated than it needs to be.

I believe I asked something simple. Show were it's implied he got burned. Anos even remarks "as expected of a demon from the mythical era, you're tough" showing he wasn't damaged.

I don't know what to tell you other than that's never how we've done things. Characters in fiction are not affected by their abilities when used by them unless otherwise stated; It's one of those illogical compromises we have to make in VS debating.

It is stated otherwise.

This also doesn't even make sense from a logical standpoint either, because how is Ivis not frozen in time every time he stops time if this is the case? How has Misha not turned herself into a block of ice? How does Sasha not nullify her powers and enter a coma every time she opens her eyes?

Gods are affected by and bound to their order and resist their own abilities. The eyes of creation and destruction work on what they are looking at and why should they use it on themselves? Speaking of Sasha, she does use her EoD to destroy her own source in vol 10.

Why isn't Anos cowering in fear of himself every time he speaks?

Because he ranks among the God tiers in terms of resistance already? To list a few:

• Chief Gods that are the culmination of all order being affected by other gods
• Curse King Kaihilam, Noor dorfmund being affected by their own curses
• Wesnera God of Bondage being affected by his own chains
• Nafta the God of the Future being affected by the Order of the future
• Eguz De Rafan Guardian Gods of Destruction burning under the sun of destruction
• Dragons being affected by their own breath
• Eugo La Raviaz being affected by his own Scythe of Time
• Graham being affected by Befenguzdogma
• Nutella De Hiana being killed by her own regenerative powers
• Lions of destruction needing to resist the the corrosive water of the abyss of craving which is the same as their blood

Yeah, the list goes on and on

If you go with the logic of "all characters in MGK affect themselves with their own abilities", then you don't get to just pick and choose. Just, stop and think about how fundamentally illogical all of this is.

I'm not picking and choosing anything as everything is there in black and white for all to see.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

@LordGriffin1000 @DarkGrath @DarkDragonMedeus

@EldemadeDityjon wants your help. Now, off I go with things that I have to do. Hehe.

The fact that you called me for some long ass MG thread and then leave puts you on the list.

Anywho, not sure I'll be much help her but I'll go over it and give my thoughts but might take me till tomorrow cause I got other stuff to do like sleep.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That CRT is built upon obvious contradictions, name and association fallacies, lack of knowledge and "trust me bro" which leaves me with a few choice words for all the participating members. A "lack of scans and reference" is frankly just an excuse to antagonize the supporters as there are multiple profiles without them and still nothing has been done to correct them. If this kind of behaviour is allowed to continue then I might as well be forced to seek retribution through my own means and with that said, let's get down to business.

No a lack of scans and references is a problem in general. The only reason old profiles aren't getting hounded is because they are given time due to being made before the enforcement of the scans and references thing, but if someone sees something not right then they can and should make a thread about it and see if something plans to get done about it. Other than that, all new shit requires references or scans at minimum. Claiming it's an excuse to just antagonize supports is not a logical thing to say given verses are being revised and even called out for sus stuff (Dragon Ball Heroes come to mind) but many people care little for other verses they aren't knowledgeable on so obviously not every verse being tackled quickly (heck I've got profiles I plan on making threads about due to their lack of scans but I plan on at least reading up on them first so I can suggest changes, it's what I did for Larfleeze, Atrocitus, and Valthoom from DC Comics. Now I'm not saying people aren't antagonizing MG supports but I highly doubt that's the only reason so I ask you not make claims like this and simply just debunk the arguments as it's not needed. The best way to shut someone down is to prove them wrong, not drop accusations as it takes away from the what really matters in my opinion.

Ice Manipulation, Matter Manipulation & Transmutation​

So while I agree with generally what's said in this portion, one thing bothers me...

Web Novel Chapter 265
This same exact scenario will still play out again but with different opponents. Aisha's eyes of creation and destruction have to break through the anti-magic of 2 of the 4 Evil Kings in order for her to affect their weapons

Spoiler

アイシャが、イージェスとカイヒラムを睨む。

その＜創滅の魔眼＞が、彼らの反魔法を突破し、魔弓と魔槍に干渉する。

「……おのれぇ……」

「……話に違わぬ、凄まじい魔眼よ……」

ディヒッドアテムとネテロアウヴスは瞬く間に氷の結晶へと変わる。

その魔眼から逃れるように、冥王と詛王は飛び退いた。

「逃がさないわ」

「どれだけ離れても視界にいる限り同じ」

アイシャが追撃するように＜創滅の魔眼＞に魔力を込め、二人を睨みつける。

Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam.

Her <Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction> breaks through their anti-magic and interferes with their magic bow and spear.

"......, you ......"

"......, just as its said, you've got a great magic eye. ......"

Dihidatem and Neteroauvus are instantly transformed into ice crystals.

To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back.

"I won't let you escape."

"No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same."

Once again it's mentioned how the eyes could affect their weapons but did nothing to them despite being in her sight (throwback to Sasha's eye's affecting Linka's weapon but not doing anything to Linka herself) and when she increases the magic power the eyes use, Graham has to step in to protect them from it

Spoiler

Aisha puts magic power into her <Eyes of Creation and Destruction> to chase after them and glares at them.

At that moment, the response of the <I Gneas> that was gripping me disappeared.

As if blocking Aisha's view, a huge purple lightning bolt poured down making a rattling sound.

"Just as I thought."

A light voice echoes.

It is not that of Aeges, nor of Kaihiram.

"It's the Magic Eye of Transgression, isn't it?"

If magic power does nothing, why does Graham suddenly need to protect them from what previously had no effect on them simply because more magic power was used?

While it says so long as they are in the line of sight they get effected. It doesn't state she triggered it on the other two yet...

Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam.

Her <Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction> breaks through their anti-magic and interferes with their magic bow and spear.

"......, you ......"

"......, just as its said, you've got a great magic eye. ......"

Dihidatem and Neteroauvus are instantly transformed into ice crystals.

To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back.

"I won't let you escape."

"No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same."

If they were uneffected, I don't see the need of them to jump back to try and avoid the characters line of sight. Unlike the first example you posted, this example states... "Aisha glances at Aeges and Kaihilam." This lets us know she looks at those two first specifically and it works on them.

Then it states... "To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back." This doesn't mean she used it one the next two at that moment just that they jump back to make sure they don't stay in her line of sight and her saying "No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same." doesn't mean she used it, it just her saying she can catch them, which is why in the next text you posted it says... "Aisha puts magic power into her <Eyes of Creation and Destruction> to chase after them and glares at them." This indicates that now she's actively trying to use it on them but then gets block.

So while I can agree with the over suggestion in the OP, I don't consider this in the same vein as the previous example from the description of what's happening. At least how I'm looking at it, though this is simply my interpretation and if others agree with it being valid I'm not going to say they are wrong. As for the other stuff, I agree with the OP's response to Electricity Manipulation and Fire Manipulation. As for Anti-Magic, I'm leaning towards agreeing with the OP so I guess you can put me down for agreeing with the OP as my thoughts don't overly effect my disagreement with everything that's presented as a whole. So that's pretty much all I half to say on the matter.

Edit: Also find it funny I said I was going to comment tomorrow and it was just a little after 12:00 AM when I posted this.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I believe I asked something simple. Show were it's implied he got burned. Anos even remarks "as expected of a demon from the mythical era, you're tough" showing he wasn't damaged.

Not damaged
Literally getting his insides destroyed

Yeah I'm out, I'm too stressed to deal with this more than I have to. Perhaps a third thread will be made in the future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The fact that you called me for some long ass MG thread and then leave puts you on the list.

Anywho, not sure I'll be much help her but I'll go over it and give my thoughts but might take me till tomorrow cause I got other stuff to do like sleep.

It was me. Btw I'm pronounce as he/him

Anyway thanks for your input. It was a great help. Appreciated

 

[Tatsumi504]

Now I'm not saying people aren't antagonizing MG supports but I highly doubt that's the only reason so I ask you not make claims like this and simply just debunk the arguments as it's not needed.

Based on the surrounding evidence and circumstances, my personal opinion is that it's a means of antagonism but I've taken heed of this. If needed I can remove it from the OP.

This lets us know she looks at those two first specifically and it works on them.

I think you're mixing up the order of events. She looks at them, breaks through the anti-magic but they are not frozen, only their weapons are. It doesn't work on them as if did they will either be deconstructed, frozen in ice or reconstructed into something else entirely. I would argue there is no point to targeting the weapons only as they can be made instantly again.

Then it states... "To escape their magic eyes, the Netherworld King and the Curse King jumped back." This doesn't mean she used it one the next two at that moment just that they jump back to make sure they don't stay in her line of sight and her saying "No matter how far away you are, as long as you're in my sight, it's the same." doesn't mean she used it, it just her saying she can catch them, which is why in the next text you posted it says... "Aisha puts magic power into her <Eyes of Creation and Destruction> to chase after them and glares at them." This indicates that now she's actively trying to use it on them but then gets block.

Continuing with what I said above, they jump back after she has already used it on them but they weren't affected only their weapons. I'm not saying she uses them again as they jump back, the eyes are AoE and not limited to specific things

The Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction that appeared in Aisha's eyes instantly transformed the vast temple into ice.

Not only the murals, but also the ceiling, walls, pillars, ground, underground, and even the stones buried there turned to cold ice.

Essentially, the points I intended to portray are:

1. The scenario fitting with the previous one involving Sasha where something similar occured
2. The opponents weren't affected
3. The opponents needed to be protected by someone else when magic power is added to the ability
4. Showing anti-magic needing to be overcome before affecting them, in other words, it grants protection against the eyes effects which is what the profile originally mentioned. There is no difference in the standard anti-magic based on the caster, whatever one is capable of, it's the same for the other, the only thing affected based on the user is potency

So while I can agree with the over suggestion in the OP, I don't consider this in the same vein as the previous example from the description of what's happening. At least how I'm looking at it, though this is simply my interpretation and if others agree with it being valid I'm not going to say they are wrong.

I understand, thank you for responding.

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah nothing here implies resistance to electricity if he had to nullify the spell to begin with.

Not sure where this is supposed to argue resistance, especially when they again refer to anti-magic as something that just destroys other magic, AKA nullifying it completely, not an outright resistance.

That entire text of not having enough magic doesn't remotely imply potency, just that they lack enough juice to cast the spell to begin with, don't know where yo got that from. Also where does it say resistance gets overcome by this, the scans you're using says that they're absorbing their power and is getting stronger, which no shit it is, that doesn't tell me anything about bypassing resistance. The only thing remotely implying more potent magic is this, but nothing about this mentions bypassing resistances, just that the more magic power you have the stronger it gets.

Doesn't matter if they haven't read the series, the burden of proof is on you to show the proof of said resistance. If it's not there to prove anything then they have the right to question it until provided proper evidence.

You do realize that sword scan of the anti magic barrier being pierced shoots your argument in the foot that it's not treated as a barrier right? If it wasn't a barrier then it wouldn't have been stated to be as such. Also this being said to destroy magic instead of just shrugging it off doesn't help your case of this being flat out resistance. Also also resisting durability negation is not a thing, that's done in so many different ways and you need to specify how you're negating durability.

Overall I disagree with the thread, not really seeing anything here that refutes Fuji's points

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah I'm out, I'm too stressed to deal with this more than I have to. Perhaps a third thread will be made in the future.

Enough of this back and forth. If you can't obtain any evidence to support your claims just say so.
Taking damage from an explosion≠ being burned by flames, said flames that burn dragons who resist it to ashes leaving no bones behind.

There are 6 levels of fire spells, increasing in descending order:

1. Grega
2. Gusgam
3. Gresde
4. Griad
5. Jio Graze
6. Aviastan Jiara

Gresde is hot enough to instantly melt steel, Griad is hotter than that, Jio Graze is a miniature sun, Anos wasn't burned by Emilia's Gusgam, A child Anos could swim through magma, Aviastan Jiara is hot enough that it burns space

 

[Tatsumi504]

Yeah nothing here implies resistance to electricity if he had to nullify the spell to begin with.

It wasn't nullified, he pushes it off him after being exposed to it for a few seconds. Whether it was pushed away or nullified, nullifying lightning doesn't dismiss the fact that a few seconds of exposure is enough to burn you to ashes

Not sure where this is supposed to argue resistance, especially when they again refer to anti-magic as something that just destroys other magic, AKA nullifying it completely, not an outright resistance.

I get the feeling you're only looking at the scan and not reading the explanation in the OP. There is normal anti-magic and there is the Eyes of Destruction. These eyes are the ultimate form of anti-magic because of their ability to destroy magic which normal anti-magic cannot do.

That entire text of not having enough magic doesn't remotely imply potency, just that they lack enough juice to cast the spell to begin with, don't know where yo got that from.

Nowhere does it imply they don't have enough juice. Their magic power was insufficient to affect the order of creation but you are entitled to your own interpretation

Also where does it say resistance gets overcome by this, the scans you're using says that they're absorbing their power and is getting stronger, which no shit it is, that doesn't tell me anything about bypassing resistance.

This confirms you aren't reading the explanation. The scan I used to indicate overcoming resistance is this one yet the scan you are quoting comes from this instead

Between users of relative amounts of magic power, the one with the larger one will be victorious

Melheis saying 50% is greater than 30% of the same power all while Anos also resists existence erasure, said existence erasure keeps becoming more potent and Anos becomes immune to it when he regains the magic power of his past life.

The only thing remotely implying more potent magic is this, but nothing about this mentions bypassing resistances, just that the more magic power you have the stronger it gets.

I will send this once again and even more Nousgalia overcame Anos resistance by increasing the magic power in his ability.
Gaining magic power allowed Anos subordinates use a spell that they couldn't use.
The dorfmond clan are born with curses and have strong resistance against them. The increasing magic power Nohl Dorfmund gained by approaching destruction made his own curse overcome his resistance.

Doesn't matter if they haven't read the series, the burden of proof is on you to show the proof of said resistance. If it's not there to prove anything then they have the right to question it until provided proper evidence.

Except the evidence is there now in the OP, a lack of evidence is not proof of evidence. They too need evidence to justify the removal

You do realize that sword scan of the anti magic barrier being pierced shoots your argument in the foot that it's not treated as a barrier right?

Read the explanation. I didn't say it is never a barrier, I said it isn't always a barrier but can be cast as one. This is a castle with anti-magic cast on it, do you see any barrier present?

If it wasn't a barrier then it wouldn't have been stated to be as such.

Yes, in each iteration of use, it's clarified when a barrier is constructed or not evidence of which I have provided

Also this being said to destroy magic instead of just shrugging it off doesn't help your case of this being flat out resistance.

Magic eyes of destruction is not normal anti-magic. Once again, they are the ultimate form of anti-magic because of their ability to destroy magic which normal anti-magic cannot do. The very last scan there says the eyes made her resist the time stop not destroy it. I even sent scans to differentiate showing when the eyes actually destroy magic

Volume 3 Chapter 22
Here as well the workings of the eye are depicted. Sasha while caught in a spell that induces paralysis and power nullification had to use the eye's to actually nullify the spell she didn't resist it even when the eye's were active

Also also resisting durability negation is not a thing, that's done in so many different ways and you need to specify how you're negating durability.

I never said anyone resisted durability negation, please do not put words in my mouth. A Convoluted reasoning was made about anti-magic being bypassed by casting magic inside it which I argued against. Nothing was cast inside the barrier, it was cast inside the opponents body. Bypassing external durability to attack one's insides is limited durability negation if nothing else yet it was being used to justify flimsy reasoning which you accepted.

Overall I disagree with the thread, not really seeing anything here that refutes Fuji's points

All while you still haven't addressed the obvious contradictions from that thread

It's clearly defined as a magic of magic resistance

Anti-magic is literally called magic resistance

 

[DarkGrath]

EldemadeDityjon wants your help. Now, off I go with things that I have to do. Hehe.

Maou Gakuin thread

Dread it... Run from it... Destiny arrives all the same.

Jokes aside, I've taken the time to read through the OP, but I'm not confident I yet have the full understanding of the situation I need to give this a thorough evaluation. Furthermore, it looks like there has already been divisive discussion on the topic. I'll try to give a proper response within the next few hours.

 

[DarkGrath]

Another obvious case can be found here. Anos directly spawns a fire spell inside Ivis Necron (dura neg) and it explodes burning him from the inside out. In the end Ivis was unscathed by it and Anos simply remarks "as expected of a demon from the Era of Myths, you're tough". So it applies to all Demons from that era and Anos is easily at the top of the pecking order.

To refer to Ivis as "unscathed" by the attack when they exclaim in agony and pain is inaccurate and rather disingenuous. In general, the discussion around this point has been unusually obtuse. However, it is stated in the scan that they are "struggling to suppress the Jio Graze", and Ano's comment afterwards implies they are successful to some degree in doing this, even after apparently "[tearing] apart his layers of anti magic" - assuming this implication isn't invalidated by surrounding context, this would suggest that we should grant Ivis resistance to fire manipulation (or whatever else Jio Graze entails). As bizarre as the discussion on this point was, I do ultimately agree with the conclusion; just not the premises that have been used for it.

This isn't even where the resistance comes from in the first place.
The resistance stems from Jerga being unaffected by <Jirasd> by protecting himself with his magic power by expelling it from his body, those unable to resist it are reduced to ashes by the heat of the lightning.

While this may seem like double-dipping, having both read the scan and the following discussion, I would be comfortable considering this to be both resistance and power null independently of one another.

Jerga is shown being exposed to the "black lightning" of Jirasd for an extended period of time without being turned to ashes as shown in the second scan (though I would like clarification of the timeframe of the second scan - this is obviously recontexualised is Jirasd takes an extended period of time to turn someone to ash, though this doesn't appear to be the case). This fact would suggest they are capable of resisting the effects of Jirasd, as this thread suggests.

But beyond this, they are also independently stated part way through their speech to have "dispelled" Jirasd. I'm not going to touch heavily on the discussions of the semantic meaning of "dispel", especially given the entirely plausible circumstance that an author just uses a word incorrectly - but what I will say is that this is displayed in a way that implies it was done substantially after the black lightning "[crawled] across the armoured giant's body", and in the context, appears to refer to explicitly "removing" it. This suggests some ability to interact with the power of Jirasd that enables Jerga to remove it from themselves, an ability that would be best indexed as power null. It may seem redundant for a character to be able to power null an ability they already resist, but I believe that's exactly what this scan shows.

The entire Anti-Magic section

I'd put an Uncanny Mr Incredible meme here to communicate my feelings towards reading through this matter, but I'm too lazy for that.

That aside, despite the amount of discussion on this point, I'm yet to be convinced that Anti-Magic is ultimately just a resistance of some kind. The scans shown throughout the thread quite unambiguously show that Anti-Magic is not simply a property of a thing that prevents it from being afflicted with magic, but a thing in itself that can be used as a means of removing magic from something else. A few examples of such scans are here, here, and here, but I recall other examples sprinkled throughout the thread. These scans, among others, establish that Anti-Magic is a thing which explicitly removes the magic from the thing it is interacting with. As also shown throughout the thread, this has a proportional function - there is a level of Anti-Magic required to remove a level of Magic, which results in a layering effect with more powerful forms of Magic/Anti-Magic. If we analogise this as cardinal numbers, the number 5 is negated by the number -5, as combining the two creates 0; combining 10 and -5, on the other hand, isn't enough to fully negate the former. The former can be thought of as Magic, and the latter as Anti-Magic. This is effectively a textbook instance of what we would consider Power Null.

The only meaningful scan provided so far to give credence to the notion that it is resistance is this one which, to be fair, does use the phrase "resistance". But that's about it. "Resistance" is a word that exists outside of the specific definition we use on the website - any usage of the word needs to be given proper context to establish that it is being used the way we would use it. With the surrounding context, I don't consider it ambiguous that this is referring simply to the fact that the armour will negate up to a certain level of Magic. The context overwhelmingly suggests that Anti-Magic works by being applied as an independent entity that directly negates the magic that it is interacting with, to the extent that it can be used to remove magic up to a certain level. Despite the focus put into trying to debunk Power Null, I've not seen nearly enough of a case for considering it Resistance to pass this.

 

[Deagonx]

Overall I disagree with the thread, not really seeing anything here that refutes Fuji's points

I'm in the same boat. A lot of these arguments are pretty ridiculous.

Uh huh. Yeah. So if I pour water on a fire, that means I innately have resistance to fire?

Water gets evaporated when it comes into contact with fire. This point is moot

I mean, what is this.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

I'd put an Uncanny Mr Incredible meme here to communicate my feelings towards reading through this matter, but I'm too lazy for that.

Here

 

[Theglassman12]

@Tatsumi504 That literally does not imply resistance at all, if you have to dispel a spell in the first place that’s the exact opposite of a resistance.

That didn’t even refute my point, anti magic is stated to just destroy/nullify other magic. Not resist it.

“I don’t have enough magic” implies they lack the juice to cast the spell.

That scan does not remotely explain anything about stronger hax overcoming resistance. Quote the exact line that says that because I don’t see it.

Where did it say it overcame resistance? Because all I’ve seen in this post is that they need more magic to cast a spell they normally can’t, which doesn’t prove Jack shit for resistance and overcoming them.

Irrelevant to my point, the page lacked scans when the resistances were there and it’s your responsibility to show the proof so they don’t question it.

Yeah the anime would have to disagree with you on that given they literally show a barrier that Anos touches.

Not the same type of resistance where she tanks the spell and is fine. This is only “resistance” in the sense that she nullifies the spell, therefore it doesn’t affect her.

fair enough, I thought you were arguing they’d just gain those as resistances but I’ll take back what I said there for duraneg.

Or you haven’t done a good job refuting the points since you’re constantly posting scans that doesn’t remotely help your argument that Anti-Magic is flat out resistance.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The scans shown throughout the thread quite unambiguously show that Anti-Magic is not simply a property of a thing that prevents it from being afflicted with magic, but a thing in itself that can be used as a means of removing magic from something else. A few examples of such scans are here, here, and here, but I recall other examples sprinkled throughout the thread

"Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means."
It isn't used to remove magic from something else. For one, the 3 scans pointed are not part of my response but rather come from what I was responding to.
Scan 1: I can see why you draw the conclusion you did but the context behind it is Anos talking about deactivating the anti-magic in his castle that is interfering with Teleportation not using anti-magic to remove it.
Scan 2: I believe that this one doesn't even suggest anti-magic removing magic which I explained here

The scan shows he used anti-magic to sever the chains binding them not erase, nullify, cancel them out as was implied. Anti-magic was used to cut chains, of which the mechanics will be explained later

Which I then explain here

Information Manipulation (Type 2; At the core of every spell there is an existing theoretical and practical formula that allows it to function. A magical blueprint that determines the function of the magic. In addition, altering the spell formula changes the properties of the magic itself).
So that's what makes magic function and in relation to that, what does Lay's sword do? Demon Sword <Initio>, has the ability to directly slip past magic, cutting through the spell formula itself thus neutralizing it. It isn't overcoming the defense, it's using hax to nullify it.

In other words, it is hax that destroys the mechanism behind magic
Scan 3: Along with scan 1, I explained these are specific forms of anti-magic that differ from the general function. In each iteration, it only interferes with teleportation or telepathy and nothing else, emphasis on "interfere". I also mentioned another which affects ESP based abilities only

As also shown throughout the thread, this has a proportional function - there is a level of Anti-Magic required to remove a level of Magic, which results in a layering effect with more powerful forms of Magic/Anti-Magic. If we analogise this as cardinal numbers, the number 5 is negated by the number -5, as combining the two creates 0; combining 10 and -5, on the other hand, isn't enough to fully negate the former. The former can be thought of as Magic, and the latter as Anti-Magic. This is effectively a textbook instance of what we would consider Power Null.

While the analogy made is partially correct, mainly because anti-magic isn't the antithesis of magic. For one both come from the same source (magic) difference being anti-magic is a defense against magical techniques.

The only meaningful scan provided so far to give credence to the notion that it is resistance is this one which, to be fair, does use the phrase "resistance". But that's about it. "Resistance" is a word that exists outside of the specific definition we use on the website - any usage of the word needs to be given proper context to establish that it is being used the way we would use it.

There 2 others that directly mentioned resistance.
The context behind the first is gradually breaking out of a time stop while the second is a characters anti-magic failing to offer resistance against the flames of a God. Please check the context and decide if it supports what a powerscaling site will refer to as resistance.

The context overwhelmingly suggests that Anti-Magic works by being applied as an independent entity that directly negates the magic that it is interacting with, to the extent that it can be used to remove magic up to a certain level.

It doesn't negate it, it interferes with it or offers a defence against it.
For example magic eyes give clairvoyance, enhanced senses, information analysis, ESP etc. They aren't spells but are still magical and anti-magic offers a defence against those abilities. To say it is negating them is the same as saying it is negating one's very ability to see. While on that, there are races/ creatures whose very nature/being is magical, any contact with anti-magic will effectively erase their existence should it negate magic.

 

[Deagonx]

In other words, it is hax that destroys the mechanism behind magic

Then this would be pretty much textbook power nullification. It may serve as a resistance in practice, but the mechanism is definitively power nullification.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I agree with the points DarkGrath evaluated. We think the same way.

 

[Tatsumi504]

@Tatsumi504 That literally does not imply resistance at all, if you have to dispel a spell in the first place that’s the exact opposite of a resistance.

A human has a passive ability to dispel lightning but it only takes effect after seconds. Said human is struck by lightning that will last about 5 seconds, after 3 seconds the lightning is dispelled.
Q1: Would the human be dead after the lightning strike?
Q2: Assuming they survive, would their body show signs of being struck by lightning such as Lichtenberg scars, cardiac arrest etc or would they be perfectly normal simply because the lightning was dispelled?

That didn’t even refute my point, anti magic is stated to just destroy/nullify other magic. Not resist it.

Please show where anti-magic and not the Eyes of Destruction is said to destroy magic as I've already said normal anti-magic and the eye's of destruction are separate things

“I don’t have enough magic” implies they lack the juice to cast the spell.

It is "not enough magic" not "I don't have enough magic", it isn't a spell.

Aisha poured magic power into the Magic Eye of Creation and Destruction and looked at the crescent moon of Artieltonoa. For a moment, she thought the outline of the moon was blurred, but there was no change.

1. Where does the magic power she put into it come from if she has no magic power?
2. How do the eyes activate with no magic power?

That scan does not remotely explain anything about stronger hax overcoming resistance. Quote the exact line that says that because I don’t see it.

Nosgalia: "Cease your burning dreadful flames."
Flames: Continues burning
Anos: "Unfortunately for you my magic doesn't take orders"
Nosgalia: Repeats again while adding more magic into his words.
"Cease your burning dreadful flames, the word of a God is absolute."
Flames: Vanishes into submission
Dorfmund Bloodline: Possesses strong resistance to curses, is born with curses, research curses all their life along with apprentices remaining unaffected.
Dorfmund Bloodline: Gains magic power, said curses overcome their resistance

https://imgur.io/a/V0sJOLz#MHu7NGQ

Anos Subordinates: Being burned by Ain Aiyl Navela about to be conceptually destroyed
Anos Subordinates: Gain magic power
Anos Subordinates: Proceeds to use a spell which only Anos can use which destroys, repels and erases Order.

Where did it say it overcame resistance? Because all I’ve seen in this post is that they need more magic to cast a spell they normally can’t, which doesn’t prove Jack shit for resistance and overcoming them.

Subordinates who have more magic power than Melheis who was able to use it with 50% of newly reincarnated Anos magic power. It's a matter of affinity not magic power.

Irrelevant to my point, the page lacked scans when the resistances were there and it’s your responsibility to show the proof so they don’t question it.

It is relevant because I also questioned why it was removed on a basis of "trust me bro". Lack of evidence is not proof of evidence, simple as that, let's drop this matter now, water under the bridge etc.

Yeah the anime would have to disagree with you on that given they literally show a barrier that Anos touches.

Anime which is secondary canon. Same anime doesn't show said barriers Anos and Ivis destroys in their fight.

Not the same type of resistance where she tanks the spell and is fine. This is only “resistance” in the sense that she nullifies the spell, therefore it doesn’t affect her.

Please can you quote my message in your response next time? It becomes difficult to know exactly what you're replying to.
I assume this is referring to Sasha? So why does nullifying the effect of an ability on you and not the ability itself not constitute a resistance especially when it is described as a form of resistance?

fair enough, I thought you were arguing they’d just gain those as resistances but I’ll take back what I said there for duraneg.

Or you haven’t done a good job refuting the points since you’re constantly posting scans that doesn’t remotely help your argument that Anti-Magic is flat out resistance.

Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means.

Anti-magic wards off magic, is said to be magic of magic resistance, requires layered hax on equal or higher level than it to affect the caster. Everything is in the OP