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Anos Volidgoad Resistance Analysis and Changes [Maou Gakuin]

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It does, since the core of the argument you are using against anti-magic is that it is reliant on AP difference, but yet, I still don't see it in the OP. What I see, is the magic difference between characters, not AP itself.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The thing about Ivis and Lay being able to bypass Anos' "weak" anti-magic is yet another example of how AP ties into the effectiveness of anti-magic, so thanks. While I do think Anos' anti-magic being able to break weapons is interesting, it obviously only works on magic weapons (because they're, yknow, magic), and there are still plenty examples of raw physical force bypassing anti-magic normally. Notably, Anos treats his anti-magic and barriers as separate things in the same scan where Lay harms him. Also, Anos choosing to take Ivis' attack doesn't mean much when the text still says it tore through his anti-magic.
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This is literally years of basic knowledge about MGK spells. I'll just follow your logic on anti-magic since it doesn't change anything anyway. Yes, ordinary magic barriers and anti-magic barriers are different. Anos let Ivis destroy his barrier, that's the difference.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I'm aware anti-magic can be used in different ways, but the fundamental nature of it doesn't change; It nullifies magic, and it is reliant on power levels. I was not able to find an exception to this rule, so while there are undeniably different types, there will always be some shared traits between them (notably, the two I just mentioned).
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If it's just about anti-magic sharing both of these traits, that's the basics, it's been that way since the profile was created.
 
ImmortalDread said:
It does, since the core of the argument you are using against anti-magic is that it is reliant on AP difference, but yet, I still don't see it in the OP. What I see, is the magic difference between characters, not AP itself.
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It literally says it relies on the difference in power, Dread.
image.png


Dog3352 said:
This is literally years of basic knowledge about MGK spells. I'll just follow your logic on anti-magic since it doesn't change anything anyway. Yes, ordinary magic barriers and anti-magic barriers are different. Anos let Ivis destroy his barrier, that's the difference.
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It's a pretty significant change, given that nobody will be given resistances via the use of their anti-magic anymore, and that anybody can overcome one of Anos' main defensive tools so long as they're stronger than him or can amplify their stats. Also, even if it doesn't change anything (unlikely as that is), it's still good to have an actual explanation indexed somewhere.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
It literally says it relies on the difference in power, Dread.
image.png



It's a pretty significant change, given that nobody will be given resistances via the use of their anti-magic anymore, and that anybody can overcome one of Anos' main defensive tools so long as they're stronger than him or can amplify their stats. Also, even if it doesn't change anything (unlikely as that is), it's still good to have an actual explanation indexed somewhere.
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The second part always had, the difference is that hardly anyone managed to have more AP than Anos in his old profile, in addition to the anti-magic being very far from being one of Anos good defenses.

By the way, Venuzdonoa still has resistance to powernull, Venuzdonoa is a magic sword, not a regular magnet sword.
 
ImmortalDread said:
It refers to magic power.
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And you're basing this off of what, exactly?

ImmortalDread said:
Is this the only scan you are relying on right now?
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Oh, so you didn't read the OP? Then be quiet and leave. I don't have tolerance for your brand of stonewalling, especially not in yet another thread about Arnold Vortigaunt.

Dog3352 said:
The second part always had, the difference is that hardly anyone managed to have more AP than Anos in his old profile, in addition to the anti-magic being very far from being one of Anos good defenses.
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I mean, regardless of if that's true in or out of universe, it is still a realistic possibility. Hell, rn he's star level with a universe level+ sword, any 2-C character can just say no to his anti-magic, so it seems like a big deal.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I mean, regardless of if that's true in or out of universe, it is still a realistic possibility. Hell, rn he's star level with a universe level+ sword, any 2-C character can just say no to his anti-magic, so it seems like a big deal.
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Any character with higher AP could "say no to your anti-magic" in the old profile too, like I said, the difference was Anos' AP was higher.
 
You don't have any tolerance, but you got guts to use a provocable title in your thread and being disrespectful here. Laughable. The fact, that you are still mistyping his name already proves that CRT is spiteful and invites drama.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
And you're basing this off of what, exactly?
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The fact that they are already talking about magic. Is this the single screenshot you are basing it off? Since pretty much, if you watched anime or read novel based on what you said OP, the author made it clear when he refers to strength power and magic power.

According to this, those characters Eugo, Nousgalia, Eques, Aeges, Wesnera haxxed Anos and Anos is still suprior in terms of attack potency. Eugo has haxed Anos, and we all know Anos is suprior to his in AP.


You ARE basing A WHOLE argument in ONE single taken-out of context part?

Then, what about this blatant definition of anti-magic? Anti-magic= A spell which casts magic resistance on the target
Screenshot_20230624-082815.png
 
Dog3352 said:
Any character with higher AP could "say no to your anti-magic" in the old profile too, like I said, the difference was Anos' AP was higher.
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Well that isn't indexed anywhere currently, so I think it's important to note.

ImmortalDread said:
You don't have any tolerance, but you got guts to use a provocable title in your thread and being disrespectful here. Laughable. The fact, that you are still mistyping his name already proves that CRT is spiteful and invites drama.
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Okay. Report me, then.
 
Push it.


Again, the screenshot implies that anti-magic is a spell which casts magic resistance on the target. Can you counter it?
 
This anti-magic armor has the power to ward off any kind of magic
Fuji: it depends on AP difference.

Sure
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
You would have to pass a CRT first lol

If there's evidence beyond the officially translated LN that disproves this thread, then post it. If not, keep coping.
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
image.png
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Consider this an official warning. Despite knowing how heated these discussions can get, specially with this verse, you are choosing to needlessly provoke them. Cut that shit off.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Okay. Report me, then.
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She honestly 100% could because of the history you have with this verse.
 
With all due respect, every time I post a thread for this verse, regardless of contents, it's met with constant aggression, stonewalling, and derailment. Massively hypocritical that I'm the one being called out here, although I will try to tone it down from here on.
 
@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara @ImmortalDread Both of you cool if off, no need to derail this to another report.

Anyways if the resistances are mainly using "anti-magic" as the crux of the argument I don't really think that would be enough, especially when anti-magic is used to get rid of some magic chains as well as a magic barrier and anti-magic field being treated differently, this just sounds more like power null than any actual resistances so I'm inclined to agree that this doesn't count as resistances, just a feat for the power null on what types of magic it nullifies.
 
There hasn't been aggression here, come on now. I call your specific actions in this thread, whether you like it or not. Don't throw a rock then try to hide your hand.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
wow if only we had statements that it relied on power differences (pic unrelated)
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Before I reply, is this your SINGLE screenshot to imply that "power = AP", therefore IN every fight (which extends to WN chapters), characters who haxxed Anos while Anos is superior to them in AP is anti-feat?
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
please.
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Promises to tone it down are worthless if not respected. I'm telling you, Fuji, to tone it down. I don't want to babysit your interactions with MGK any more than I want to babysit your interactions with Touhou.

Everyone just play nice, thank you. I will be on this thread.
 
If I were to present compelling evidence showing that the author explicitly uses “strength” as a representation of “attack potency” in their novels, while “power” within the context of anti-magics/magic refers to the actual existence of magical power within the verse, would you be open to reconsidering your perspective within this particular thread?

Without intending to cause offense, allowing this thread to proceed could potentially lead to the creation and prolongation of further scaling conflicts. It may also result in the questioning of each fight involving Anos, particularly instances where he is affected by the abilities of characters with inferior attack potency.

I will represent each instance, and let's see how you are going to stick with one screenshot against tons of instances.
 
ImmortalDread said:
If I were to present compelling evidence showing that the author explicitly uses “strength” as a representation of “attack potency” in their novels, while “power” within the context of anti-magics/magic refers to the actual existence of magical power within the verse, would you be open to reconsidering your perspective within this particular thread?
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I already know this isn't true though; Just by skimming the LNs, I can find numerous examples of "power" referring to AP (or at least some measure of strength and not magic power specifically). And please, don't try to nitpick an individual scan, because that is not the point here. Oh, and just for reference, even if you take every instance of "power" as meaning "magic power", we'd still have statements that magic power is tied to AP.

ImmortalDread said:
Without intending to cause offense, allowing this thread to proceed could potentially lead to the creation and prolongation of further scaling conflicts. It may also result in the questioning of each fight involving Anos, particularly instances where he is affected by the abilities of characters with inferior attack potency.

I will represent each instance, and let's see how you are going to stick with one screenshot against tons of instances.
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Given the nature of anti-magic, the various forms in takes, and the ways in which it can be bypassed, it's not reasonable to treat every instance of someone haxing Anos as an anti-feat. Everything aught to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis, preferably with a lot of context. There is also the fact that Anos does seem to willingly lower his anti-magic at times for one reason or another, so that would also need to be considered.
 
Bravo

now cite every screenshot with chapter and volume and page, since I am not here to debate with taken out of screenshots. Why should I not address each of them while you are using them as counter-argument? It is entirely the point here, your whole argument is over a single screenshot that says “power”; you are going to actually convince everyone why in the context of magic, was this referring as AP.

You can't tell me: here is my counter-argument, however it is not relevant to the topic, so don't bother to counter-address them.

And as for “magic power is tied to AP”, dependence is nowhere the same definition as “equivalence”. So no, interpretation is false.

And I will send the instances, where indeed author use “strength” as AP, and there is undeniably a magic power in verse.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Given the nature of anti-magic, the various forms in takes, and the ways in which it can be bypassed, it's not reasonable to treat every instance of someone haxing Anos as an anti-feat. Everything aught to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis, preferably with a lot of context. There is also the fact that Anos does seem to willingly lower his anti-magic at times for one reason or another, so that would also need to be considered.
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Crazy, she is going to reject the entire fights and the instances as “anti-feats” over a single screenshot of “power”, where in fact, it refers to magic power, and not strength.

I will give my counter-argument tmr, its 1:31 am. I will make sure, to give an entire essay on this. I will add WNs and raws as well. Let's see how much dependence on official translation you will stay (ironically, you will never give this importance in your own verse as well)
 
ImmortalDread said:
Bravo

now cite every screenshot with chapter and volume and page, since I am not here to debate with taken out of screenshots. Why should I not address each of them while you are using them as counter-argument? It is entirely the point here, your whole argument is over a single screenshot that says “power”; you are going to actually convince everyone why in the context of magic, was this referring as AP.
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To be blunt, this is a massive hypocrisy given that 0 of the scans that MGK supporters have shown me have the volume, chapter, and page number of all things when it comes to their own scans. You are also being quite dishonest here; You're saying I brought a single scan when I in fact brought 7, with many more I could dig up considering how frequently MGK uses the word "power". I could go on with what's wrong with your response, but I think you know as well as I do that this is all deeply flawed stonewalling, and that's the point. Because not once have you actually engaged with any of the points I've brought up.

I was willing to stop the aggression and back down. You obviously are not. Do not keep testing my patience.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I already know this isn't true though; Just by skimming the LNs, I can find numerous examples of "power" referring to AP (or at least some measure of strength and not magic power specifically). And please, don't try to nitpick an individual scan, because that is not the point here. Oh, and just for reference, even if you take every instance of "power" as meaning "magic power", we'd still have statements that magic power is tied to AP.
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It's another mistake in official translation, the scans you posted above and even in the OP says power but in the raws it clearly said as magic power in those places.

Edit: For eg: https://gyazo.com/34f8a5750413beb53cc7d663e83e3c1b

In the above raw it used 魔力＝Magical Power.
 
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Anti-Magic

Anti-magic is a topic frequently brought up in Maou Gakuin, but Anos’ page does a poor job of explaining what exactly it is. As the name implies, it acts as protection from magic, but it is decidedly not a resistance - as shown here, it’s a very distinct entity from magic resistance, and overreliance on it actually weakens one’s magic resistance. It is directly shown to interfere with or outright cancel magic, so it is moreso power nullification than “resistance” to any individual power.

Given its nature as power null, it has an obvious weakness: No means of countering physical attacks. Anos states this pretty clearly when he encounters a castle with anti-magic barriers in place and responds by casually yeeting it. This is again mentioned when Anos bypasses a door protected by anti-magic by pushing it open, and yet again when a casual sword swing from Ivis tears apart Anos’ anti-magic. Finally, Anos’ anti-magic is easily overcome by Lay’s sword attacks. From this, it’s quite clear that anti-magic is anti-magic alone; Regardless of what form it takes, enough raw muscle can bypass it. Notably, this would mean Venuzdonoa loses its resistance to power null, as it overcoming “layers upon layers of anti-magic” hardly means anything when it’s a sword, which is a physical attack.

So anti-magic is pretty clearly power null, which means it should be removed from the resistance tabber and moved to Anos’ power null justifications. However, this is just the start of the issues. Anti-magic barriers and armor are reliant on the discrepancy in power level between caster and defender; Against origin magic like Jirasd, a typical anti-magic barrier won’t hold because of the vast increase in power. Ivis clearly states that Anos’ magic is far more powerful than his, which allows his anti-magic barriers to be torn apart (this also showcases another flaw of anti-magic: it’s possible to bypass barriers entirely if you just cast a spell inside of it lol). Finally, while there are likely other examples, volume 2 makes explicit mention of how anti-magic is reliant on the power difference between the magic and anti-magic; Any anti-magic can be overcome if you just… make your magic stronger. So while anti-magic is power null, it has a very clearly defined limitation in regards to its mechanics.

TL;DR: Anti-magic is a limited form of power null reliant on one’s power level. It only works on magic, and physical blows can bypass it without issue. This also means Venuzdonoa loses resistance to power nullification.
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To be honest anti-magic doesn't just always work as a power nullification, depending on how it's used it can also act as a barrier and function as a resistance to magic. When used on the whole body it acts as resistance to magic, just like Zepes' anti-demon armor and many other cases, so there are specific differences to its function depending on how to manipulate it, when used as a barrier it only acts as a barrier, in its case as power nullification it was always used like to disrupt the magic field, drown out the magic etc. So stop generalizing something you don't know specifically and as a whole
 
Verrel966 said:
To be honest anti-magic doesn't just always work as a power nullification, depending on how it's used it can also act as a barrier and function as a resistance to magic. When used on the whole body it acts as resistance to magic, just like Zepes' anti-demon armor and many other cases, so there are specific differences to its function depending on how to manipulate it, when used as a barrier it only acts as a barrier, in its case as power nullification it was always used like to disrupt the magic field, drown out the magic etc. So stop generalizing something you don't know specifically and as a whole
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The thing is, even in those cases, it is clearly treated as a distinct thing from resistance to magic. In Zepes' case, you very clearly can't say it's a resistance when the scan outright says it reduces his magic resistance. It's only "resistance" in the sense that it nullifies magic used against it, but it is still treated differently from just having an innate resistance to magic.
 
The changes in the OP seem fine, I seriously don't know how something called "anti-magic", which negates and nullifies magic, was treated as granting resistances when they're definitionally not resisting the magical effects themselves, but are rather negating them before they're affected by them. Similar to how Asta didn't resist Zagred's Reality Warping but he could negate the effects created by it through his anti-magic.
 
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