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maou gakuin no futekigousha Upgrade from 2-A to low 1-C
- Thread starter ImmortalDread
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EldemadeDityjon
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Tell me without telling me you haven't read the op completely and just nitpicking.
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Not really as having multiple infinite multiverses is still the same as having infinite universes. Here the size actually goes beyond that
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I'd be surprised if he said he read something, it's harder to find a structure that isn't infinite in size in MGK.
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Thank you for helping out, Elizhaa.
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OFF Topic. If you want to share something, then do it in the verse thread...Also this is unrelated but Yoshinori Shizuma (MGK illustrator) stated this in his/her twitter account:
Translations:
Source and Yoshinori offical twitter account"The art book is a collection of records, so I made an illustration with that kind of nuance. In the work, an item called "Sosei Arial" that contains the memories of Anos appears, and with that as a hint, the worldview that stores memories and records in physical things is expanded. The image is that each black box around you has a record of the story embedded in it, and Anos sits on top of that story. If you look closely, you can see the silhouette of someone wearing a hood in the background, but the space is surrounded by statues of the races that appear in the work: demons, humans, spirits, gods, and dragon men. It's a mysterious space with a box of records floating in it."
Might aswell get a fluent japanese translator to translate the statement properly because I'm pretty sure that this might give anos something, as far as I know Artbook & statement from author/illustrator can be used for feat as long as it cannon like this one.
ps: if y'all already knew ab this and it a useless statement then feel free to ignore this lol
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My bad, should I remove the post and repost it in the verse thread?
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I would say yes. Thanks.
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The first evidence sounds to be a range limitation. I am curious if you have the scans; though, on this point currently, I don’t see 6-D being valid unless there are more valid elaborations on how the silver sea has everything as something insignificant subset of itself. I won’t continue further since you said you would leave the point for another thread.
The 6-D silver bubble points seem weak to me. I am also curious if you have the evidences, but I will leave my thoughts first. If I recall correctly, chief gods' higher-dimensional existence are accepted as 4-D scaling from 4-D worlds; if they were accepted from transcending the world accurately, they would have been 5-D or Low 1-C already.
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You're keep repeating what I've already, said twice. That's one of the reasons why I stopped because of the great disadvantages I'm having right now. Everyone knows that this site ignores the skepticism of Continuum Hypothesis, or accepting GCH to be precisely.
Oh yeah it does? I don't understand how you could say that after asserting that there is no strict cardinal between countable and uncountable sets. Multiple infinite multiverses being equal to one occur because of bijection, I'm making a scenario if a verse treats them as superior to one. That means there's no such thing as above the 2-A baseline because after 2-A (which is infinite) you go straight to the Low 1-C if this standard is getting abused.
EldemadeDityjon
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I will try to reply later. I am kinda busy
There are 3 statements which compared difference between Silver Bubbles and Bubbles as dimensions. And Chief God (higher dimensional existence can only Exists in Silver bubble aka Evolved Bubbles). I will try to go into details later.
Kinda busy. I will try to reply later. If you have some arguments drop it.
EldemadeDityjon
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The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them.
"It is the reason why this world is the world it is. Why is a bird a bird, why is a demon a demon? The heavens send down rain to moisten the earth and nurture the trees. If you draw a magic circle and put magic power into the magic formula, the light will come on. These are what we call the laws of nature, the laws of magic, the order that makes this world what it is."
[...]
"And the beings who maintain that order, the beings who embody that order, are the higher order divine race, the gods."
[...]
"And the beings who maintain that order, the beings who embody that order, are the higher order divine race, the gods."
Something that flows through the Fundamental Laws Cyclic Garden, the domains of the Four Fundamental Laws Gods, equivalent to the term "Source" in the world of mortals. It is born, deepens, meets its demise, changes and cycles back to birth again, gradually decreasing its total amount in the process.
A visualization of the laws that affect the "Source" of the earth, which flows in the depths of the "Azure Sky of the Gods". It is the very power itself that the world contains, and the strength of the world's order is approximately equivalent to the total amount of fire dew that it contains.
"Fire dew is the order of life-force. Its quantity is the foundation of the Small World, which determines the depth of the world. It is no exaggeration to say that Silver Water Shogi uses the Small World itself as its pawns."
If you lose the fire dew, the world will be destroyed.
The amount of fire dew is directly related to the amount of magic power in the entire small world.
Using the fire dew as pawns would indeed be equivalent to using the world itself as a pawn.
If you lose the fire dew, the world will be destroyed.
The amount of fire dew is directly related to the amount of magic power in the entire small world.
Using the fire dew as pawns would indeed be equivalent to using the world itself as a pawn.
From both Keywords from LN and WN chapters we can easily conclude the amount of fire dew world has directly linked to worlds reality.
The spherical blackboard must have been a magical tool as it was transparent and what appeared inside were silver bubbles.
It seemingly imitated five Shallow Layer Worlds and one Deep Layer World.
"Let's say, for example, that the Shallow Layer Worlds have a magic power of 10 and the weight of their Order is 10. The same goes for the Deep Layer World."
'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10'
'Deep Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10' was added.
"According to the Order of the Silver Sea, magic power flows to the deep layer and the Order exerts its power to the depths. The magic power of the Shallow Layer World shifts by one, same for its Order."
One magic power and weight are subtracted.
It was rewritten as 'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power 9. Weight 9'.
"The magic power and Order are given to the Deep Layer World, turning it into power."
From each of the five Shallow Layer Worlds, one magic power and weight are transferred for a total of five magic power and weight, which are added to the ones the Deep Layer World originally had.
There, the Deep Layer World becomes 'Magic Power 15, Weight 15'.
"It's actually not that simple, but this is the basic principle of the Silver Sea's Order. A small world that possesses numerous magic power and a strong functioning Order is heavy and sinks into the depths. Thus, it is considered deep."
It seemingly imitated five Shallow Layer Worlds and one Deep Layer World.
"Let's say, for example, that the Shallow Layer Worlds have a magic power of 10 and the weight of their Order is 10. The same goes for the Deep Layer World."
'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10'
'Deep Layer World: Magic Power: 10. Weight: 10' was added.
"According to the Order of the Silver Sea, magic power flows to the deep layer and the Order exerts its power to the depths. The magic power of the Shallow Layer World shifts by one, same for its Order."
One magic power and weight are subtracted.
It was rewritten as 'Shallow Layer World: Magic Power 9. Weight 9'.
"The magic power and Order are given to the Deep Layer World, turning it into power."
From each of the five Shallow Layer Worlds, one magic power and weight are transferred for a total of five magic power and weight, which are added to the ones the Deep Layer World originally had.
There, the Deep Layer World becomes 'Magic Power 15, Weight 15'.
"It's actually not that simple, but this is the basic principle of the Silver Sea's Order. A small world that possesses numerous magic power and a strong functioning Order is heavy and sinks into the depths. Thus, it is considered deep."
Here it pretty much explains deeper layers getting order of shallow layers. For example 1 deeper layer world would get countless amounts of order of countless shallow layer bubbles. For Layer 1 it will be infinite amount layer 0 reality would be transferred as Layer 0 there will be no shortage of bubbles and all layers are infinite in size if a bubble gets destroyed a new one will replace it in no time.
"For 700 million years in Militia's world alone, the world of her mother, Elenesia, her mother's world, her mother's world, and her mother's world, and her mother's mother's world, and her mother's mother's world, and her mother's mother's world. Each time, while the fire dew was taken from you. The amount of fire dew stored at the bottom of the divine world cannot possibly account for it."
Each time the world got destroyed by Eques stealing the fire dew. So he had already stolen many of Bubbles' world amounts of fire dew. As explained above, to sink into deeper layers or become deep, the world needs all shallow layer bubbles in order. As Eques was supposed to be the Chief God of Militia World he collected the fire dew and getting evolved and he finally evolved during Militia World also the fact we know Conformist are born when Bubble Evolve is another example for this Vlad(Conformist) being born indicates Militia World getting evolved and Sinking to layer 1 and that's the Reason why they sank to layer 1 after recreation of Militia world the world's order gotten evolved.
Among the worlds that exist in the Silver Water Holy Sea, there are those where the Chief God has not yet been born, and the world has not evolved to be able to perceive the outside of the world. They are constantly releasing fire dew, and most of them are fated to disappear without any change
The Chief God is the god who governs the order of the world, and the Sovereign is the one chosen by the Chief God as a worthy person to govern the world. The birth of the Chief God is the key to perceiving the outside of the world, stopping the leakage of fire dew, and the evolution of the Bubble World.
"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this sanctuary."
"The gears of the upper limits begin to turn. Limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of power."
Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
Here it's clear without Chief Gods and Conformity the world wouldn't evolve. Bubble worlds can't perceive the silver sea. Also, an additional note is that they can't even get out of bubbles Worlds without a travelling aka usage of ships. And those ships are created by chief gods. Chief gods transcend the bubble worlds. The world's reality is set by the upper limits of the order. Birth of Eques (chief God) in Militia World (5D) stated to surpass that set limits. Later, that world sinks into layer 1. Exceed means “transcend” in that context, and in Wiki, we always treat those two terms as the same.
"Hmm. I thought I was just a little out of shape." "In this small world, which exists deeper than your small world, the power of everything is in another dimension. Strength, speed, toughness, magic power, everything. Even the resistance of a grain of air would be a weight to you. If you unleash your shallow, world-destroying magic, you will not be able to destroy a single ship here."
It's also consistent with Silver Bubbles compared to dimensional differences. Here we need to take a look at how the author is explaining things. He didn't just say characters from deeper layers are stronger than shallow layers but he stated the world in deeper layers ( evolved) is stronger than shallow layers and he also goes on to compare breathing air as Difference between dimensions. The point we should take a look at this is a world destroying spell which can destroy complete 5D structure can't even be able to destroy a small object.
E.g. <Dogda Azbedara>: Supreme Flame Magic Heavy Cannon. Highly explosive flame magic that trails towards the enemy in the form of a blue star. As a deep magic, its power is far beyond <Jio Graze>, to the point that it's not even comparable.
Limit set on the Bubble world can't be exceeded as 3D range can't reach 4D here 5D can't reach 6D. That's how author portrayed.
Ottlulu draws a transparent bubble on a spherical blackboard.
She wrote 'Bubble World' on it.
"The movement of fire dew occurs mainly in the bubble world. This is what we call the countless dark bubbles floating in the Silver Sea. It is said that all worlds begin with bubbles. Even the deeper worlds located in the depths of this ocean, was one bubble in the beginning."
She added the word 'unevolved'.
"The bubble world is an unevolved small world. In the Silver Sea, it can be said to be an unborn world, because the Bubble World does not have a Chief God and Sovereign. Without the Chief God, there is no complete control over the order of the Small World, and without the Sovereign, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine what will happen."
Like a bubble popping, the Bubble World disappears.
"The bubbles of that ocean would disappear if left alone like this, hence the name bubbles."
Lots of bubbles appear again, building a bubble world.
"However, not all bubbles disappear. Those bubble worlds that are lucky enough to survive have certain changes going on within them."
Ottlulu wrote 'The birth of a Conformist'.
"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will are invisible and do not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of the Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were probably the seeds of world will.
"The Conformist is the end result of the evolution of life. They have magic power and strength, power that surpasses that of the gods, and the power to lead the world in a better direction. As the number of conformists continues to increase, further changes will be brought to the small world. That is the birth of the World Chief God."
Ottlulu continued her explanation without hesitation.
"The existence of the Conformist strengthens the world's fire dew and brings a strong force to the order. One of the seeds of the world possessed by the gods will sprout, and the existence that can be called the will of the world, the World Chief God, will be born."
"It's a little different from the Militia world."
[...]
"With the birth of the World Chief God, the small world will change drastically. The Chief God will choose a suitable Sovereign to rule the small world. The candidates will be the Conformists."
"Do you mean a Sovereign Conformist?"
"They are the Sovereign Conformist and a conformist of an evolved world. The Chief God sniffs out those who are suitable for his world according to his order."
[...]
"The Chief God will choose a king of the world from among the conformists. This will create a Sovereign, and the bubble world will evolve into a silver bubble."
She wrote 'Bubble World' on it.
"The movement of fire dew occurs mainly in the bubble world. This is what we call the countless dark bubbles floating in the Silver Sea. It is said that all worlds begin with bubbles. Even the deeper worlds located in the depths of this ocean, was one bubble in the beginning."
She added the word 'unevolved'.
"The bubble world is an unevolved small world. In the Silver Sea, it can be said to be an unborn world, because the Bubble World does not have a Chief God and Sovereign. Without the Chief God, there is no complete control over the order of the Small World, and without the Sovereign, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine what will happen."
Like a bubble popping, the Bubble World disappears.
"The bubbles of that ocean would disappear if left alone like this, hence the name bubbles."
Lots of bubbles appear again, building a bubble world.
"However, not all bubbles disappear. Those bubble worlds that are lucky enough to survive have certain changes going on within them."
Ottlulu wrote 'The birth of a Conformist'.
"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will are invisible and do not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of the Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were probably the seeds of world will.
"The Conformist is the end result of the evolution of life. They have magic power and strength, power that surpasses that of the gods, and the power to lead the world in a better direction. As the number of conformists continues to increase, further changes will be brought to the small world. That is the birth of the World Chief God."
Ottlulu continued her explanation without hesitation.
"The existence of the Conformist strengthens the world's fire dew and brings a strong force to the order. One of the seeds of the world possessed by the gods will sprout, and the existence that can be called the will of the world, the World Chief God, will be born."
"It's a little different from the Militia world."
[...]
"With the birth of the World Chief God, the small world will change drastically. The Chief God will choose a suitable Sovereign to rule the small world. The candidates will be the Conformists."
"Do you mean a Sovereign Conformist?"
"They are the Sovereign Conformist and a conformist of an evolved world. The Chief God sniffs out those who are suitable for his world according to his order."
[...]
"The Chief God will choose a king of the world from among the conformists. This will create a Sovereign, and the bubble world will evolve into a silver bubble."
Silver bubbles are evolved Bubbles and and Bubbles are normal Universes and as for all the above evidence and explanation Silver Bubbles should have atleast uncountable infinite universes level reality. Also the fact Eques Evolution took place after he consumed fire dew for many worlds+ Infinite bubble world drew from layer 0 even makes sense that to evolve the world and sink deeper the world should receive at least an uncountable infinite amount of other worlds fire dew.
Muto looked at me strangely.
He seemed to think that he didn't need to explain.
'You ran away, so I chased you and brought you back."
In an instant, he had caught up with Elenesia, who he had thought had fled to a safe distance, caught up with her, carried her, and brought her back here.
IIt's just too much. The dimensions of power are too different.
That is probably why he let go of his hostage, Erenesia, and went to sleep.
He seemed to think that he didn't need to explain.
'You ran away, so I chased you and brought you back."
In an instant, he had caught up with Elenesia, who he had thought had fled to a safe distance, caught up with her, carried her, and brought her back here.
IIt's just too much. The dimensions of power are too different.
That is probably why he let go of his hostage, Erenesia, and went to sleep.
To add final touch this statement comes from narrative perceptive and he clearly mentioned as The power difference between Bubble world Inhabitants (Elenesia) and Silver Bubbles inhabitants ( Muto) is dimensions.
Summary:
- Author Clearly distinguish between Bubble world and Silver Bubbles
- Bubble world are already 5D as in the OP so not gonna bother Explaining
- Silver bubbles are evolved worlds and to evolve the world need the birth of Chief God and Conformist. Both surpasses the world order and power.
- Worlds reality is set by a limit. Even realms gods and everything is bound to that limits and it's how a 3D can't reach 4D like that limit is set.
- Birth of Eques (Chief God) of Militia world indicated that the world will evolve Dimensionally and sink into layer 1 and exceeds that limit in other words Transcends
- To specify correctly Eques has collected Many worlds fore dew( reality of the world order) already but only when world started sinking when a Conformist born and Eques existence was started to take place. But to sink into deeper layers than shallow layers you need all Shallow layer order.. layer 0 will have infinite worlds order and Layer 1 will get that infinite worlds order. So technically Silver bubbles will have uncountably infinite worlds order.
- After introduction of Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles author continuously uses dimensionality to differentiate between the power difference of the worlds. For example When Anos first met Sasha he did displayed power difference and used a lesser fire magic spell to cancel out greater fire magic spell of sasha and explaned if the character has more magic even less fire magic can destroy greater magic. But this power between them was never Compared to dimensions and and this was not the case when Anos.tried to do the same thing when Silver Sea was introduced. No matter how much magic he put into Geo graze which is strongest magic in the Bubble world its not reaching the Silver Bubble.
- The Elenesia and Mutouh is another example where Elenesia.is from Bubble world and Mutouh is from Silver bubbles where narratively stated as both of thems difference is dimensional.
Bubble world are 5D & Silver Bubbles are Evolved Bubbles (6D). Evolution of Bubbles only takes place during birth of chief gods and conformist. Chief Gods Transcends the world (5D) as explained above. They can't exist in Bubble worlds they exists in specifically Silver bubbles which are Evolved Bubbles. There has been author continuously compared the difference between Silver Bubbles and Bubbles has dimensions which has not the case until Silver sea was introduced. That's also we have 3 different statements from different arcs only after the Silver Sea introduction. The series follows the lore of Life can't exists outside of Worlds so technically he is trying to introduce dimensionality based on the world Evolution.
I know it's very confusing but Maou Gakuin has different set of Cosmology because of Author trying to display his own fictional work. The overall point is he never differentiated something until the Silver Sea was introduced and when Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles were introduced he directly jumped to dimensionality. And He clearly specified that Birth of Chief God and Conformist and Evolution of bubbles would Exceed the world limits. Exceed can mean many things and here the context is trying to say transcend. And the difference was compared to dimensionality.
I also left out some more information as this only confusing for others. There is this Silver Sea Shogi example where Worlds fire dew is used as Shogi piece and Magic bullet world was trying to use Bubbles world as bullets which should have been impossible if both are in same dimensionality plane. But let's leave that apart. I hope above explanation Clarifies why Bubble world and Silver Bubbles are not in same dimensionality. Let me know if you any doubts.
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PrinceofPein
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Can't believe I read all that but
Here are the important quotes
"The dimensions of power are too different" has nothing to do with ontological dimensions
And "this would exceed the world's limit" also has nothing to do with ontological difference.
And "the power of everything is in another dimension" also has zero to do with ontological differences
And "Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order." Has absolutely nothing to do with ontological differences.
Just bunch of flowery quotes that has nothing to do with R>F
Also where are you seeing uncountable infinite realities?
Here are the important quotes
"The dimensions of power are too different" has nothing to do with ontological dimensions
And "this would exceed the world's limit" also has nothing to do with ontological difference.
And "the power of everything is in another dimension" also has zero to do with ontological differences
And "Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order." Has absolutely nothing to do with ontological differences.
Just bunch of flowery quotes that has nothing to do with R>F
Also where are you seeing uncountable infinite realities?
EldemadeDityjon
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Reality>fiction difference is not the only way to get higher dimensionality. Look at Gurren Laggan. So stop if you don't have patience to read whole thing. What you just said is nitpicking. Wait for staffs to comment. I am not gonna bother even if you reply. I will wait for Eliza to take a look. You just picked 3 lines and ignored the whole context.
PrinceofPein
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Don't care if you reply or not. GL has string universes IIRC.
And I read the whole thing and still there is nothing here is R>F or ontological.
R>F is not the only way there are others but you have failed to provide those
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If the explanation of @EldemadeDityjon isn't enough, I really don't know what else.The difference between bubble worlds and silver bubbles cannot just be portrayed as above the baseline 5D
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when valentine's day comes round this forum's gonna be horny as hell bro for the past week or so i've seen like 3 confessions of love
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I love flirting with random women so you might aswell see me go all out on valentine day
anyways Im gonna change my opinion from Neutral-Agree to fully agree with 5D-6D.
PengfeiNvG
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Neutral 6-D
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Meh, kinda already knew this kinda stuff would barely get accepted but lemme just say it's not flowery language or metaphors, they're all literal.
To confirm, did you read the part where the very source/essence of multiple infinite 5D realities is basically used to play shogi in deeper layers?
In the same layer, the lowest ranked spell can overcome the highest one simply by having a good enough difference in magic power but magic from bubble worlds can't contend with any magic from a silver bubble no matter how much magic power you pour into it and we're talking about someone who has infinite energy compared to someone who's energy is finite.
People who can nuke infinite 5D reality can't destroy simple objects in a silver bubble. The wiki simply tagged it as being more durable but there's no way this makes sense.
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Whats the current staff voting?
Kuroneki00
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No wonder it got easily upgraded....
Peak
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for now they agreed with 5D and are neutral to disagree with 6D
EldemadeDityjon
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One staff agreed on 5D bubble other staff has no reason just said from his belief he is disgreed and around 20+ people agreed with 5D Upgrade and neutral on 6D and pain and 2-3 disgree because they don't understand how the verse cosmology works
Now we are just arguing for 6D scale..
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30+ I assume, I did not upgrade the voting tally because I got confused lol ;-;
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What do you mean?
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5 pages = easily upgraded
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lmao
Ubdon
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5 pages full of "agree" or "neutral" votes so yeah
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tbh, only the first page till ya, let's not comment.
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