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maou gakuin no futekigousha Upgrade from 2-A to low 1-C

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GustiTalk12 said:
for those of you who use monika's profile please change it immediately because you don't play the game and follow fiction, so I hope you delete the profile right now
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oh no, there is gusti here, using monika's profile is freedom, even though i don't follow the ddlc story, but i have the right to use monika's profile, because she is my waifu
 
sen_ said:
1, 2, countless or whatever number of infinite multiverses will always be able to contain the same number of elements, that is N = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...}. That's why separate multiverses are not treated as above baseline, unintuitively 2 is not bigger than 1 here. However if a space is stated to be effectively larger that's another story.

they just contain different elements, the same number of elements but different. Just like the set A = {A, B, C, D} and the set B = {1, 2, 3, 4} contain different elements but have the same cardinality.

for any cardinality strictly larger than N, we can say that it is at the very least uncountable. Now 2^Aleph-0 (the cardinality of the real numbers) could be Aleph-1, Aleph-2, Aleph-22. Or in general for any n > 0 it's consistent to assume 2^Aleph-0 = Aleph-n. Also the notion that there is no cardinal between Aleph-0 and Aleph-1 does not come from the continuum hypothesis, its definition implies (in ZF) that there is no cardinal number between them. With the axiom of choice you can further expand that by proving that the class of cardinal numbers is totally ordered.
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Dread said:

Introduction​

As you guys know, Maou Gakuin cosmology is presently at the 2-A tier.
The good news (bad news for haters) is that we got more scans/statements/shreds of evidence for a good possibleness of a low 1-C tier (5D- possibly 6D to be precise)

Cosmology Overview​

eC6QjYv.jpg

Credits for the picture/cosmology go to me @Dread

This is how the cosmology looks like in The Misfit of Demon King Academy Series. You can zoom in to view bubble World and Militia World.

Currently, this is what it looks like:
  • 1 realm (sanctuary) is 2-A (contains countless infinite timeline/space-time continuums)
  • 1 Azure Sky = countless realms
  • 1 bubble contains countless infinite black sky + Azure lane = countless 2-A
  • 0 layer contains infinite bubbles Worlds
  • 1-99+ layers = countless up to infinite Bubbles
There are 99+ layers in the silver sea. All layers are of the same size. Here is the thread that evaluates our cosmology for 99+ x baseline 2-A (currently one of the strongest 2-As in a wiki)

Note: For more info, here is the cosmology page

Low 1-C (5D) rationalization​

「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」
"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this sanctuary."
「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」

"Each divine domain is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the source of the world is fixed, so is the amount of fire dew in Da Ku Kadate, and the number of flowers in this divine domain."

Every sanctuary (realm) is just a microcosm of the bubble. And microcosm is microscopic, miniature, a copy of a larger place, a small unit. So that world is very limited by a bubble and treated only as subsets of it, and make bubble is infinitely greater in all parts of the universes (sanctuary) because universes are only a small unit in the infinite bubble. It also means every sanctuary has the same, similar structure.

ミーシャが目の前を指さす。

　鮮やかな蒼穹に星のように散りばめられているのは、黄金の火山や白色の湖、いばらの大地、車輪のような街など、色とりどりの様々な風景だ。

「ここが神々の蒼穹。見えている風景は、どれも神域」

　エンネスオーネの芽宮神都や、ナフタの限局世界と同じものだ。

　確かに、どれもこれも、凄まじい魔力を発している。

Misha points out in front of him.

　Scattered like stars across the brilliant azure sky are a variety of colorful landscapes, including golden volcanoes, white lakes, thorny lands, and wheel-like cities.

"This is the azure sky of the gods. Every landscape you see is a divine realm."

　It is the same as the budding divine city of Ennesione and the limited world of Nafta.

　Indeed, all of them emit tremendous magical power.

The future world is also a sanctuary. There are countless realms, but the black sky itself is infinite in size and is not bound by the real world.

There is nothing in-between countable infinity and uncountable infinity, so something that is stated to be bigger than the former would result in the latter by necessity. This applies to Maou Gakuin's case, as Kandaquizorte (a 2-A structure) was stated to be small compared to the Bubble.

In math terms​

Kandaquizorte (sanctuary) <<<<<<<<<< 1 bubble and there are Infinite bubbles = 1 layer

microcosm statement for the bubble = 5D

Low 1-C (6D) rationalization​

In the Silver Water Holy Sea, 14,000 years ago. Before the God of Creation Militia was born, the name of that bubble world was Elenesia. That is, there is a discrepancy in time between the Silver Sea and the small world. From the perspective of the Militia World, it was roughly more than 700 million years ago--
"Even so, the Militia World was created 700 million years ago, right?" "In the Silver Water Holy Sea, it is only about 14,000 years old." A questioning look appeared on Sasha. Then Misha explained. "Luna fell into the Elenesia World 14,000 years ago." "...Oh, I see, that's right... Huh? But I was certain that the Militia World is 700 million years old since its creation...?" "Perhaps time is out of sync." "...Well, for example, when a day passes in the 7th of Elenesia, a year or even longer passes in the Militia World?" "Simply put, yes. However, I haven't been able to confirm any discrepancy in time between the small worlds we have visited so far and the Militia World. One second here in the 7th of Elenesia is exactly the same as one second in the Militia World." Sasha looked more and more puzzled. "Then, what do you mean?" "A discrepancy in time somehow occurred once. And now, it's back to normal, I guess." For example, if nearly 700 million years have passed only in the Militia World, while time has stopped in this Silver Sea, it would make sense. It's not certain if the Militia World accelerated or if the other small worlds stopped.
The silver water sacred sea is wide. 　It is endlessly vast. 　Even with her God's eye, which is well penetrated throughout her own world, she is unable to predict the whole picture. Its endlessness felt to her like a distance to peace. 　No matter how much we seek peace, we will never get there. This silver sea is so endless that it seems that way.
The gears of the upper limits begin to turn. Limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of power. 　Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
The silver sea's time flow is independent of the bubbles', Therefore the Silver Sea is a separate bigger (extradimensional space) space-time continuum. Elensia can view a complete bubble world (5D) but she cannot perceive the end of the silver sea and perceives it as endless even while being able to see an Infinitely large 5D space. The bubbles are infinitely sized 5D already. Bubble worlds can't perceive the silver sea. Also, an additional note is that they can't even get out of bubbles Worlds without a travelling aka usage of ships. And those ships are created by chief gods. Chief gods transcend the bubble worlds. The world's reality is set by the upper limits of the order. Birth of Eques (chief God) in Militia World (5D) stated to surpass that set limits. Later, that world sinks into layer 1. Exceed means “transcend” in that context, and in Wiki, we always treat those two terms as the same.
The evidence is here

Summary:
  • Author Clearly distinguish between Bubble world and Silver Bubbles
  • Bubble worlds are already 5D
  • Silver bubbles are evolved worlds and to evolve the world needs the birth of Chief God and Conformist. Both surpass the world order and power.
  • Worlds reality is set by a limit. Even realms gods and everything is bound to that limits and it's how a 3D can't reach 4D like that limit is set.
  • Birth of Eques (Chief God) of Militia world indicated that the world will evolve Dimensionally and sink into layer 1 and exceeds that limit in other words Transcends
  • To specify correctly Eques has collected Many worlds fire dew (the reality of the world order) already but only when the world started sinking when a Conformist born and Eque's existence was started to take place. But to sink into deeper layers than shallow layers you need all Shallow layer order.. layer 0 will have infinite worlds order and Layer 1 will get that infinite worlds order. So technically Silver bubbles will have uncountably infinite worlds order.
  • After the introduction of Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles author continuously uses dimensionality to differentiate between the power difference of the worlds. For example, When Anos first met Sasha he displayed power difference and used a lesser fire magic spell to cancel out his greater fire magic spell of Sasha and explained that if the character has more magic even less fire magic can destroy greater magic. But this power between them was never Compared to dimensions and this was not the case when Anos. tried to do the same thing when Silver Sea was introduced. No matter how much magic he put into Geo graze which is the strongest magic in the Bubble world it's not reaching the Silver Bubble.
  • The Elenesia and Mutouh is another example where Elenesia is from Bubble world and Mutouh is from Silver bubbles where narratively stated as both of them different is dimensional.
Conclusion:
Bubble worlds are 5D & Silver Bubbles are Evolved Bubbles (6D). The evolution of Bubbles only takes place during the birth of chief gods and conformists. Chief Gods transcend the world (5D) as explained above. They can't exist in Bubble worlds they exist in specifically Silver bubbles which are Evolved Bubbles. There has been an author continuously comparing the difference between Silver Bubbles and Bubbles dimensions which has not the case until the Silver sea was introduced. That's also we have 3 different statements from different arcs only after the Silver Sea introduction. The series follows the lore of Life can't exist outside of Worlds so technically he is trying to introduce dimensionality based on the world Evolution.

I know it's very confusing but Maou Gakuin has a different set of Cosmology because of Author trying to display his own fictional work. The overall point is he never differentiated something until the Silver Sea was introduced and when Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles were introduced he directly jumped to dimensionality. And He clearly specified that the Birth of Chief God and Conformist and Evolution of bubbles would Exceed the world limits. Exceed can mean many things and here the context is trying to say transcend. And the difference was compared to dimensionality.

I also left out some more information as this is only confusing for others. There is this Silver Sea Shogi example where Worlds fire dew is used as a Shogi piece and Magic bullet world was trying to use Bubbles world as bullets which should have been impossible if both are in the same dimensionality plane. But let's leave that apart. I hope the above explanation Clarifies why Bubble world and Silver Bubbles are not in the same dimensionality.

Small info: Chief Gods are already accepted as higher dimensional existence in the wiki.
The layers of hax will still remain the same, as a single silver bubble would be Low 1-C. But Ano's true key won't have the layers.

Thread Conclusion​

This means, there is no object being larger than the 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself

Also, another note: This does not scale to the whole Silver Sea, only to Silver bubbles being 6D. So Anos will still have 99+ layers of hax.
The cosmology is still infinitely larger, and I will do the next CRT after silver bubbles 6D is accepted.

Results​

Note: Bold = Staff Opinion

Agree: 0 (0:20) @Gasfo @Ubdon (with 5D), @Wagy, @sen_ @Ottavio_Merluzzo, @Yohata, @Satoshi23, @Diablo_, @Accelerator, @GustiTalk12, @Tatsumi504 (with 5D), @Rendynoc0unter, @Shadow_Somnius, @Overlord_THE_END (with 5D), @ZinnaiYama (with 5D), @God900, @Caduz213, @EldemadeDityjon (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 5D), @Arzzz (with 5D)
Disagree: 0 (0:0)
Neutral: 0 (0:6) @Ubdon (neutral with 6D), @Tatsumi504 (with 6D), @Overlord_THE_END (with 6D), @ZinnaiYama (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 6D), @Arzzz (with 6D)
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Disagree
 
Aseka said:
I see those who agreed to this mostly don't have reasoning for it.
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Aseka said:
And those who disagreed got ignored
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You don't need to elaborate on why you agreee with something (as mostly you'll have read the OP before even commenting, etc), you will need to do so in case you disagree with something. If someone disagrees and explains the reason, he/she will clearly be taken into account, like Pain for example.
 
Dereck03 said:
You don't need to elaborate on why you agreee with something (as mostly you'll have read the OP before even commenting, etc), you will need to do so in case you disagree with something. If someone disagrees and explains the reason, he/she will clearly be taken into account, like Pain for example.
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But why in votes section didn't count people who disagreed with this?
 
Kuroneki00 said:
Bad news for hater
Good news for wanker
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Bad News for Supporters and Good news for downplayers you mean
Aseka said:
I see those who agreed to this mostly don't have reasoning for it.
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One who agreed already started worked on this CRT many months before. So you are gonna ignore who disagreed Without any reason ?
Aseka said:
And those who disagreed got ignored
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More like people one who agreed got ignored because one staff saying they disgreed with no elaboration. Stop trying to Twists it.
 
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Aseka said:
Count on who elaborate why they disagreed, you sure no one like that in this thread? I'm very sure that @GreatIskandar14045 disagree to this, he explain with reasoning too.
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Which already got debunked and he himself stated he doesn't understand. He asked for more knowledgeable people to comment. Also ok pain and that guy 2 people who disgreed with something which they don't understand. Even if count 2 votes is it going to change the thing that 30+ people who worked on this and ok with the upgrade? Anyway at the end all depends on staff no matter how correct you are. Just wait for staff input instead of complaining
 
You only count people who agree regardless of others who explain why MGK is not worthy of getting L1C, whether people who agree to give an answer that is worthy of upgrading this verse?. Honestly I'm waiting ultima and DT
 
MattSatire said:
Looks like this vote only covers that MGK is not worthy of this upgrade

I did not complain about this upgrade but the method was wrong, just counting votes for no apparent reason why MGK could upgrade.
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Looks like you can't read what Fixxed stated. Also no why would you count vote of people who Balantly disgrees with no explanation. Only 2 people gave any what reason. Not to mention it hasn't been updated from 3 days. From what i see you people just trying to look for something wrong in MGF supporters that's all. Also again staff votes matters not the supporters or Opponents. So stop complaining with your personal reasons and wait for staffs to comment here.
 
MattSatire said:
Looks like this vote only covers that MGK is not worthy of this upgrade

I did not complain about this upgrade but the method was wrong, just counting votes for no apparent reason why MGK could upgrade.
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Do you know that the votes of neither those who agree nor elizzha (staff) nor even those who do not agree have been counted? The OP has not updated the votes count.

And I find suspicious the amount of accounts with 5 or 6 comments and little more that appear only to cause a ruckus.

It seems to me that I have already been condecendent, I gave 2 previous warnings that if they continued derailing the thread I was going to start reporting, this is my last warning, I will report the one who continues with this derailment, we are just waiting for what Elizhaa thinks about the rest and more staff... The OP can count the votes when he feels like it. You want DT and Ultima? DT has been asked but not interested, Ultima was asked since first day and he said that he will probably take a look.
 
CosmologyLearner said:
Lol ur disagreement(or any other except staffsó doesn't make a difference.dont u get that ?if it did no verse would get upgraded.so it would be better if u could explain to us why u disagree.
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just for not understanding the verse, you're saying other people can't give an opinion, you're not even making up the names of people who disagree in this thread
 
Ren1999 said:
just for not understanding the verse, you're saying other people can't give an opinion, you're not even making up the names of people who disagree in this thread
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Dereck03 said:
Do you know that the votes of neither those who agree nor elizzha (staff) nor even those who do not agree have been counted? The OP has not updated the votes count.

And I find suspicious the amount of accounts with 5 or 6 comments and little more that appear only to cause a ruckus.

It seems to me that I have already been condecendent, I gave 2 previous warnings that if they continued derailing the thread I was going to start reporting, this is my last warning, I will report the one who continues with this derailment, we are just waiting for what Elizhaa thinks about the rest and more staff... The OP can count the votes when he feels like it. You want DT and Ultima? DT has been asked but not interested, Ultima was asked since first day and he said that he will probably take a look.
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I don't get you ?
Ren1999 said:
just for not understanding the verse, you're saying other people can't give an opinion, you're not even making up the names of people who disagree in this thread
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Am not saying u can't express ur opinions.am saying ur opinions be it personal? No one cares.As long as it's following vsbw standards.someone just can't jump into a thread and say "I disagree with the whole thing" without understanding(and expect us to close it down from that) and that's exactly why only staffs get to decide an upgrade,because they know more Abt the standards ?

You are not even making up the names of people who disagree in this thread

What does this mean ?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Your Ignorance about we didn't counted Elizha vote also crazy. Have you even following this thread? Don't talk if you don't know anything about what happened. No votes counted from two days. Also stop derailing. How many times dereck has to remind you that.
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Elizha not even knowledgeable about this verse though, if I'm not mistaken @Everything12 also don't agree about this L1C, I don't disagree or agree about this verse just I wonder why you all don't make a name for the vote for people who disagree in this thread
 
Ren1999 said:
Elizha not even knowledgeable about this verse though, if I'm not mistaken @Everything12 also don't agree about this L1C,
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?? Elizha not knowledgeable on the verse ? Also did you even read what Everything said later about him not knowledgeable on tier 1. Elizha has been literally helped out many CRTs on the verse . I don't remember he/she saying he is not knowledgeable on the verse.
Ren1999 said:
I don't disagree or agree about this verse just I wonder why you all don't make a name for the vote for people who disagree in this thread
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Again first decide what you are trying to say clearly. So you don't want to count Elizha vote ( who is not knowledgeable ACCORDING TO YOU ) but you want to count the votes of some people who are not even knowledgeable and disgreed with the CRT. Man the double standards.

Stop with spamming if you don't know anything about the CRT or discussion what's going on & wait for the staff. Where do you all came from same excuse do you guys have some Seperate GROUP for complaining about Maoh Gakuin supporters.

Also just stop with derailing Dereck already gave warning why the heck you are complaining can't you wait for staff to evaluate
 
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Ren1999 said:
Elizha not even knowledgeable about this verse though, if I'm not mistaken @Everything12 also don't agree about this L1C, I don't disagree or agree about this verse just I wonder why you all don't make a name for the vote for people who disagree in this thread
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The OP (Dread) is currently busy, please hold on.
When they goes online, they'll be sure to add Elizhaa and Everything12 vote.

Yes, there are multiple votes already that weren't added in the OP. I talk with Dread and it's because, they're busy and unable to keep tap on the number of votes.

I'll ask them to at the very least keep track of relevant votes (staff vote) such as Elizhaa and Everything12 votes.
 
I want to know their reasons tho..


Anyway, here's my vote.. I'm fine with 5-D being a thing (even tho I like anos in 2-A and not wanted him in tier 1)... I'm highly unsure about 6-D tho. I would like hear elizhaa's or any knowledgeable staff about 6-D stuffs before even disagree or agree with it.
 
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Updated, before you accuse me (pretty much those new accounts are starting to accuse me I did not add disagreement, but they are somehow blind or don't want to accept I did not start counting after page 2), if you find any wrong number or duplicate votes, just tell me. It was a lot for my eyes, so I am sure I made a mistake.

But now for this CRT, two staff members agreed with 5D and one is neutral, while 1 staff disagreed with 6D and the other is neutral and has not seen my message or input.
I will be DMing Ultima and DT for the 6D discussion. I hope I don't want to see any derailment, or I will start reporting.
 
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