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maou gakuin no futekigousha Upgrade from 2-A to low 1-C

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Put me down for agree with 5D, with Ultima finally given their opinion I now have no hesitation agreeing to what's been presented.

As for 6D Silver Sea, I agree to what Ultima is saying, but you should probably link that scan that states the Silver Sea is infinite in the opening, as the quotes you do have there aren't strong enough evidence in my opinion.
 
Also, three sorta relevant questions to the scaling that this thread will change I'm wondering.

One, Anos' true power being capable of destroying the Silver Sea is a hypothetical that has yet to happen in the story? What is his current greatest feat or statement he is or was capable of in the story?

Two, if we put Venuzdonoa's statement of being able to destroy anything to the side, what is the greatest thing it's destroyed or has been directly stated to be able to destroy?

Three, has anyone currently capable of destroying the entire Silver Sea appeared in the story yet?
 
Everything12 said:
Also, three sorta relevant questions to the scaling that this thread will change I'm wondering.

One, Anos' true power being capable of destroying the Silver Sea is a hypothetical that has yet to happen in the story? What is his current greatest feat or statement he is or was capable of in the story?

Two, if we put Venuzdonoa's statement of being able to destroy anything to the side, what is the greatest thing it's destroyed or has been directly stated to be able to destroy?

Three, has anyone currently capable of destroying the entire Silver Sea appeared in the story yet?
Click to expand...
Isn't this already discussed & some rule was made when null was active in the wiki
 
Everything12 said:
Also, three sorta relevant questions to the scaling that this thread will change I'm wondering.

One, Anos' true power being capable of destroying the Silver Sea is a hypothetical that has yet to happen in the story? What is his current greatest feat or statement he is or was capable of in the story?

Two, if we put Venuzdonoa's statement of being able to destroy anything to the side, what is the greatest thing it's destroyed or has been directly stated to be able to destroy?

Three, has anyone currently capable of destroying the entire Silver Sea appeared in the story yet?
Click to expand...
Hypotetically everyone who lives in deeper layers can destroy all previous layers because for them it should be like a broke a glass, and every upper layer must be more easyer to destroy.
But that means everyone from abyssal world would be as strong as perfect lion of deatruction, what is impossible
Thats why im not sure
 
Pekarchan said:
Hypotetically everyone who lives in deeper layers can destroy all previous layers because for them it should be like a broke a glass, and every upper layer must be more easyer to destroy
Click to expand...
Wait man this was already discussed for 5 pages in last CRT and concluded Anos AP scaling to Silver Sea..
 
I guess the 6-D silver sea seems fine from Ultima's points, and since the silver holy sea encompassed the bubble worlds as an infinitesimal portion of itself.
I agree with Everything12's point that the supporting statements on the silver sea being 6-D should definitely have been in the thread to have made the case stronger.
Here is one of the statements from here:

"You are an inhabitant of a bubble world, so it is understandable that you are bewildered. Outside the world in which you lived, an endless sea spreads out. That is the Silver Water Holy Sea. And there are many countless small worlds that exist there."

„~ WN Chapter 673
 
Last edited:
Ultima_Reality said:
So, summarizing all that, each Bubble World contains an infinite amount of timelines, as well as an infinitely large space (The Black Sky) enveloping them, of which the entire set of timelines is just miniature version? I've seen the discussion where 2-A was accepted, and I'll admit that the reasoning for the rating itself seems a bit questionable, based on my skimming of it at least, but this is not the thread for this, so I'll just push it aside for now.

Regardless, if what I just described is an accurate summary of how each Bubble World works, I am fine with Low 1-C for them. It does seem like the whole thing about the Black Sky being infinite isn't really literal, and moreso talking about how it is constantly expanding and growing in size, but that wouldn't really impact the upgrade anyway, I don't think.
Click to expand...
Hello ultima, can you explain why bigger than 2A structure can have low 1C rating??

Because i think few people dont understand why, and then disagree with this thread
 
Fixxed said:
Hello ultima, can you explain why bigger than 2A structure can have low 1C rating??

Because i think few people dont understand why, and then disagree with this thread
Click to expand...
I think that because you can have uncountable infinite by have cardinality that stricly bigger then aleph 1
 
Fixxed said:
I know that, i just want ultima explain, because i think people that disagree not understand why that can have low 1C structure
Click to expand...
He already has.

"Low 1-C sounds fine if all of the qualifying factors are met, which they seem to be in this case. As said before, there is no such thing as being larger than a 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself (Unless the verse establishes that this is possible somehow), so Chronos perceiving infinite timelines as so tiny she cannot perceive them fits that bill."
 
Fixxed said:
I know that, i just want ultima explain, because i think people that disagree not understand why that can have low 1C structure
Click to expand...

Elizhaa said:
I guess the 6-D silver sea seems fine from Ultima's points, and since the silver holy sea encompassed the bubble worlds as an infinitesimal portion of itself.
I agree with Everything12's point that the supporting statements on the silver sea being 6-D should definitely have been in the thread to have made the case stronger.
Here is one of the statements from here:
Click to expand...
That's all you need
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
He already has.

"Low 1-C sounds fine if all of the qualifying factors are met, which they seem to be in this case. As said before, there is no such thing as being larger than a 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself (Unless the verse establishes that this is possible somehow), so Chronos perceiving infinite timelines as so tiny she cannot perceive them fits that bill."
Click to expand...
And they still disagree
EldemadeDityjon said:
@Fixxed let's just stop it. Its already 7 pages. Let the OP and staff decide.
Click to expand...
I just tired to see people that disagree but not know about why it can have low 1C structure. Its better ultima to explain why because i think even if our explain is correct, they will not take it
 
oberon said:
also change my 6d from neutral to agree based on ultima explanation
Click to expand...
Yeah change mine as well, I guess, and the changes can be applied now, so we should probably do that and close this thread at last.
 
Dread said:

Introduction​

As you guys know, Maou Gakuin cosmology is presently at the 2-A tier.
The good news (bad news for haters) is that we got more scans/statements/shreds of evidence for a good possibleness of a low 1-C tier (5D- possibly 6D to be precise)

Cosmology Overview​

eC6QjYv.jpg

Credits for the picture/cosmology go to me @Dread

This is how the cosmology looks like in The Misfit of Demon King Academy Series. You can zoom in to view bubble World and Militia World.

Currently, this is what it looks like:
  • 1 realm (sanctuary) is 2-A (contains countless infinite timeline/space-time continuums)
  • 1 Azure Sky = countless realms
  • 1 bubble contains countless infinite black sky + Azure lane = countless 2-A
  • 0 layer contains infinite bubbles Worlds
  • 1-99+ layers = countless up to infinite Bubbles
There are 99+ layers in the silver sea. All layers are of the same size. Here is the thread that evaluates our cosmology for 99+ x baseline 2-A (currently one of the strongest 2-As in a wiki)

Note: For more info, here is the cosmology page

Low 1-C (5D) rationalization​

「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」
"Each sanctuary is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the root of the world is fixed, the number of fire dewdrops in da ku kadate is fixed, as is the number of flowers in this sanctuary."
「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」

"Each divine domain is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the source of the world is fixed, so is the amount of fire dew in Da Ku Kadate, and the number of flowers in this divine domain."

Every sanctuary (realm) is just a microcosm of the bubble. And microcosm is microscopic, miniature, a copy of a larger place, a small unit. So that world is very limited by a bubble and treated only as subsets of it, and make bubble is infinitely greater in all parts of the universes (sanctuary) because universes are only a small unit in the infinite bubble. It also means every sanctuary has the same, similar structure.

ミーシャが目の前を指さす。

　鮮やかな蒼穹に星のように散りばめられているのは、黄金の火山や白色の湖、いばらの大地、車輪のような街など、色とりどりの様々な風景だ。

「ここが神々の蒼穹。見えている風景は、どれも神域」

　エンネスオーネの芽宮神都や、ナフタの限局世界と同じものだ。

　確かに、どれもこれも、凄まじい魔力を発している。

Misha points out in front of him.

　Scattered like stars across the brilliant azure sky are a variety of colorful landscapes, including golden volcanoes, white lakes, thorny lands, and wheel-like cities.

"This is the azure sky of the gods. Every landscape you see is a divine realm."

　It is the same as the budding divine city of Ennesione and the limited world of Nafta.

　Indeed, all of them emit tremendous magical power.

The future world is also a sanctuary. There are countless realms, but the black sky itself is infinite in size and is not bound by the real world.

There is nothing in-between countable infinity and uncountable infinity, so something that is stated to be bigger than the former would result in the latter by necessity. This applies to Maou Gakuin's case, as Kandaquizorte (a 2-A structure) was stated to be small compared to the Bubble.

In math terms​

Kandaquizorte (sanctuary) <<<<<<<<<< 1 bubble and there are Infinite bubbles = 1 layer

microcosm statement for the bubble = 5D

Low 1-C (6D) rationalization​

In the Silver Water Holy Sea, 14,000 years ago. Before the God of Creation Militia was born, the name of that bubble world was Elenesia. That is, there is a discrepancy in time between the Silver Sea and the small world. From the perspective of the Militia World, it was roughly more than 700 million years ago--
"Even so, the Militia World was created 700 million years ago, right?" "In the Silver Water Holy Sea, it is only about 14,000 years old." A questioning look appeared on Sasha. Then Misha explained. "Luna fell into the Elenesia World 14,000 years ago." "...Oh, I see, that's right... Huh? But I was certain that the Militia World is 700 million years old since its creation...?" "Perhaps time is out of sync." "...Well, for example, when a day passes in the 7th of Elenesia, a year or even longer passes in the Militia World?" "Simply put, yes. However, I haven't been able to confirm any discrepancy in time between the small worlds we have visited so far and the Militia World. One second here in the 7th of Elenesia is exactly the same as one second in the Militia World." Sasha looked more and more puzzled. "Then, what do you mean?" "A discrepancy in time somehow occurred once. And now, it's back to normal, I guess." For example, if nearly 700 million years have passed only in the Militia World, while time has stopped in this Silver Sea, it would make sense. It's not certain if the Militia World accelerated or if the other small worlds stopped.
The silver water sacred sea is wide. 　It is endlessly vast. 　Even with her God's eye, which is well penetrated throughout her own world, she is unable to predict the whole picture. Its endlessness felt to her like a distance to peace. 　No matter how much we seek peace, we will never get there. This silver sea is so endless that it seems that way.
The gears of the upper limits begin to turn. Limits are raised by the gears, and thou and I are separated by a dimension of power. 　Eques tries to crush me with a force that seems to exceed the upper limits of order.
The silver sea's time flow is independent of the bubbles', Therefore the Silver Sea is a separate bigger (extradimensional space) space-time continuum. Elensia can view a complete bubble world (5D) but she cannot perceive the end of the silver sea and perceives it as endless even while being able to see an Infinitely large 5D space. The bubbles are infinitely sized 5D already. Bubble worlds can't perceive the silver sea. Also, an additional note is that they can't even get out of bubbles Worlds without a travelling aka usage of ships. And those ships are created by chief gods. Chief gods transcend the bubble worlds. The world's reality is set by the upper limits of the order. Birth of Eques (chief God) in Militia World (5D) stated to surpass that set limits. Later, that world sinks into layer 1. Exceed means “transcend” in that context, and in Wiki, we always treat those two terms as the same.
The evidence is here

「泡沫世界は未進化の小世界。この銀水聖海においては、生まれていない世界と言えます。なぜなら、泡沫世界には主神と元首がおりません。主神がいなければ、小世界の秩序を完全に制御することはできず、元首がいなければ小世界の住人たちは争い続けます。行く末は、想像に容易いでしょう」
The bubble world is small, unevolved world. In this silver water sacred sea, it can be said that it is a world that has not been born. Because there is no main god and head of state in the bubble world. Without the chief god, the order of the small world cannot be completely controlled, and without the head of state, the inhabitants of the small world will continue to fight. It's easy to imagine how it will end
泡沫世界だったため、ミリティア世界があると証明することも不可能だっただろう。
Because it was a bubble world, it would have been impossible to prove the existance of Militia world
The bubble world is small and unborn bubble if compare to the silver bubble world. As long as the bubble world does not evolve to a silver bubble is impossible to prove its existence, that means in silver sea bubble world is nonexistent or unborn world, and then evolve to a silver bubble is make the world exist

The gap between bubble and silver bubble is non-existence and the existence

Summary:
  • Author Clearly distinguish between Bubble world and Silver Bubbles
  • Bubble worlds are already 5D
  • Silver bubbles are evolved worlds and to evolve the world needs the birth of Chief God and Conformist. Both surpass the world order and power.
  • Worlds reality is set by a limit. Even realms gods and everything is bound to that limits and it's how a 3D can't reach 4D like that limit is set.
  • Birth of Eques (Chief God) of Militia world indicated that the world will evolve Dimensionally and sink into layer 1 and exceeds that limit in other words Transcends
  • To specify correctly Eques has collected Many worlds fire dew (the reality of the world order) already but only when the world started sinking when a Conformist born and Eque's existence was started to take place. But to sink into deeper layers than shallow layers you need all Shallow layer order.. layer 0 will have infinite worlds order and Layer 1 will get that infinite worlds order. So technically Silver bubbles will have uncountably infinite worlds order.
  • After the introduction of Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles author continuously uses dimensionality to differentiate between the power difference of the worlds. For example, When Anos first met Sasha he displayed power difference and used a lesser fire magic spell to cancel out his greater fire magic spell of Sasha and explained that if the character has more magic even less fire magic can destroy greater magic. But this power between them was never Compared to dimensions and this was not the case when Anos. tried to do the same thing when Silver Sea was introduced. No matter how much magic he put into Geo graze which is the strongest magic in the Bubble world it's not reaching the Silver Bubble.
  • The Elenesia and Mutouh is another example where Elenesia is from Bubble world and Mutouh is from Silver bubbles where narratively stated as both of them different is dimensional.
Conclusion:
Bubble worlds are 5D & Silver Bubbles are Evolved Bubbles (6D). The evolution of Bubbles only takes place during the birth of chief gods and conformists. Chief Gods transcend the world (5D) as explained above. They can't exist in Bubble worlds they exist in specifically Silver bubbles which are Evolved Bubbles. There has been an author continuously comparing the difference between Silver Bubbles and Bubbles dimensions which has not the case until the Silver sea was introduced. That's also we have 3 different statements from different arcs only after the Silver Sea introduction. The series follows the lore of Life can't exist outside of Worlds so technically he is trying to introduce dimensionality based on the world Evolution.

I know it's very confusing but Maou Gakuin has a different set of Cosmology because of Author trying to display his own fictional work. The overall point is he never differentiated something until the Silver Sea was introduced and when Silver Sea and Silver Bubbles were introduced he directly jumped to dimensionality. And He clearly specified that the Birth of Chief God and Conformist and Evolution of bubbles would Exceed the world limits. Exceed can mean many things and here the context is trying to say transcend. And the difference was compared to dimensionality.

I also left out some more information as this is only confusing for others. There is this Silver Sea Shogi example where Worlds fire dew is used as a Shogi piece and Magic bullet world was trying to use Bubbles world as bullets which should have been impossible if both are in the same dimensionality plane. But let's leave that apart. I hope the above explanation Clarifies why Bubble world and Silver Bubbles are not in the same dimensionality.

Small info: Chief Gods are already accepted as higher dimensional existence in the wiki.
The layers of hax will still remain the same, as a single silver bubble would be Low 1-C. But Ano's true key won't have the layers.

Thread Conclusion​

This means, there is no object being larger than the 2-A structure while still remaining 2-A yourself

Also, another note: This does not scale to the whole Silver Sea, only to Silver bubbles being 6D. So Anos will still have 99+ layers of hax.
The cosmology is still infinitely larger, and I will do the next CRT after silver bubbles 6D is accepted.

Results​

Note: Bold = Staff Opinion

Agree: 42 (2:40) @Gasfo @Ubdon (with 5D), @Wagy, @sen_ @Ottavio_Merluzzo, @Yohata, @Satoshi23, @Diablo_, @Accelerator, @GustiTalk12, @Tatsumi504 (with 5D), @Rendynoc0unter, @Shadow_Somnius, @Overlord_THE_END (with 5D), @ZinnaiYama (with 5D), @God900, @Caduz213, @EldemadeDityjon (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 5D), @Arzzz (with 5D), @Dereck03 (with 5D), @wwereymy235, @Kowalski, @Peak, @TheGreatJedi13 (with 5D), @Orioreeem, @ActuallySpaceMan (with 5D), @Sus, @DigiAnymore (with 5D), @NHTkenshin2 (with 5D), @Elizhaa with (5D), @Arnoldstone18 (with 5D), @Dog3352, @Samael24567, @NieferGoingCraaazy (with 5D), @Sacchan, @CosmologyLearner, @Alicred (with 5D), @Pain_to12 (agreed with 5D if 2-A is legit), @oberon (with 5D), @Daten_Naraku, @Pekarchan (with 5D)
Disagree: 7 (1:6) @Everything12 (with 6D; no reasons given), @Sergeant_Hypocrite (with both), @GreatIskandar14045 (with both, even with 2-A), @Tetrahedron1234, @NullVoid312 (with everything and no reasons given), @Nothingness2264 (his first message is in this OP with disagreement, no reasons given), @Pain_to12 (with 6D)
Neutral: 16 (2:14) @Ubdon (neutral with 6D), @Tatsumi504 (with 6D), @Overlord_THE_END (with 6D), @ZinnaiYama (with 6D), @YoPercy (with 6D), @Arzzz (with 6D), @Dereck03 (with 6D), @TheGreatJedi13 (with 6D), @ActuallySpaceMan (with 6D), @InfiniteDay, @Everything12 (with 5D), @Mr._Undetected, @DigiAnymore (with 6D), @NHTkenshin2 (with 6D), @Arnoldstone18 (with 6D), @NieferGoingCraaazy (with 6D), @Alicred (with 6D), @oberon (with 6D), @Pekarchan (with 6D)
Click to expand...
Awoakwok Ultima Agree
 
  • Misha Necron
  • Sasha Necron
  • Lay Glanzudlii
  • Shin Reglia
  • Aisha (Maou Gakuin)
  • Graham (Maou Gakuin)
  • Eques
  • Anos
  • Venuzdonoa
  • + I assume the cosmology page should be updated as well
I will be working on those profiles (but I need them to get unlocked)
(Please only verse supporter and the content moderator replies here)
You can unfollow the thread if you want
 
Dread said:
  • Misha Necron
  • Sasha Necron
  • Lay Glanzudlii
  • Shin Reglia
  • Aisha (Maou Gakuin)
  • Graham (Maou Gakuin)
  • Eques
  • Anos
  • Venuzdonoa
  • + I assume the cosmology page should be updated as well
I will be working on those profiles (but I need them to get unlocked)
(Please only verse supporter and the content moderator replies here)
You can unfollow the thread if you want
Click to expand...
Why Aisha? For the same reason she doesn't have any of Misha and Sasha's goddess abilities right now (they haven't fused again after becoming gods), the same reason I don't plan to add it in the next ability addition CRT, why would she be affected by the tier upgrade here?
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Why Aisha? For the same reason she doesn't have any of Misha and Sasha's goddess abilities right now (they haven't fused again after becoming gods), the same reason I don't plan to add it in the next ability addition CRT, why would she be affected by the tier upgrade here?
Click to expand...
Via scaling to bubble.
 
Anyway, I will be waiting for a content moderator to unlock the profiles and I will be adding the changes. The thread can be closed if it is wished.
 
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