Maou Gakuin No Futekigousha (The Misfit of Demon King Academy) 2-A for Future World Crystal and Mortal World

[PrinceofPein]

I think I'm done arguing, so I will just link all the necessary chapters here, I mean all the chapters in which nafta showed up here.

They are pretty short so anyone that is going to evaluate them, can read through them in like 10mins.
Going roundabout with you guys is exhausting as well obviously you won't even see things eye to eye and would rather retort to head canons

 

[PrinceofPein]

Last scan, explicitly tells us that there are infinite possibilities that are equal to the world=universe.

No actually like I can also read.

There is no single future is decided. With the love of Nafta, there are infinite possibilities, and people hold hope in their hearts and seize a better future. Dragon Knights, don't be afraid"

"No single future decided" already mean those futures have not happened yet. What else is there?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

To clarify, we have confirmation that these alternate timelines exist parallel to eachother?

Yes there are infinite possibilities and each possibilities are infinite futures which are already constructed by order which even gods can't overturn. They already materialised. You can check the OP for scans.

 

[Dog3352]

And this proves those futures she sees are already existing physically??

As I asked earlier, don't crystals exist?

Crystal = possibility

The order of Nafta chooses one among all possibilities and uses it to limit its target, what he means by "the future will materialize" is not that it will come into physical existence, but that this will be the future that materialized in the world of Nafta (limited world), it will be the future used to limit your target, all crystals/possibilities exist physically.

And it has already been stated that crystals have the same shape as the world.

 

[Dereck03]

"No single future decided" already mean those futures have not happened yet. What else is there?

They are not decided because it is she who has to choose 1 of all those futures that were made by her order. If they were already decided then what would be the point of nafta order to select a future?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Before this thread gets any longer...

Points @Pain_to12 is yet to address;

• The fact that Kandaquizorte (the future world crystal) is equivalent to the many futures of the world and its shape is equal to that of the world.
• Manifested possibilities are always in the form of possibilities (abstract existences) yet nafta's seemingly warps reality and manifests as bonafide physical events.
• Overruling/overwriting an event by manipulating probability so that the event didn't happen is effectively changing the past which is impossible for two reasons, 1). Being that nafta is the future god and can't influence the past, 2). The past cannot be changed as it is preordained and once it is changed, the temporal order is activated and all changes are reversed.

 

[Tatsumi504]

No actually like I can also read.

No your logic is that the future world needs to be a space that contains infinite timelines which is refuted by the point that Kandaquizorte is the physical embodiment of all futures and its shape is equal to the shape of the world.

 

[ImmortalDread]

As I asked earlier, don't crystals exist?

Crystal = possibility

The order of Nafta chooses one among all possibilities and uses it to limit its target, what he means by "the future will materialize" is not that it will come into physical existence, but that this will be the future that materialized in the world of Nafta (limited world), it will be the future used to limit your target, all crystals/possibilities exist physically.

And it has already been stated that crystals have the same shape as the world.

Hopes this clarifies @Pain_to12

 

[Hajun]

No actually like I can also read.

"No single future decided" already mean those futures have not happened yet. What else is there?

If future are already decided then what is the use of nafta?

 

[Dereck03]

If future are already decided then what is the use of nafta?

Not to be rude my friend, but all you say is what others have already said previously, you don't seem to bring anything new or of your own, so I would appreciate it if you would not overhelm the thread anymore.

 

[Hajun]

I think I'm done arguing, so I will just link all the necessary chapters here, I mean all the chapters in which nafta showed up here.

They are pretty short so anyone that is going to evaluate them, can read through them in like 10mins.
Going roundabout with you guys is exhausting as well obviously you won't even see things eye to eye and would rather retort to head canons

We made Headcanons when you are the one ignoring everything

 

[Hajun]

Not to be rude my friend, but all you say is what others have already said previously, you don't seem to bring anything new or of your own, so I would appreciate it if you would not overhelm the thread anymore.

Ok sir

 

[PrinceofPein]

I think I'm done arguing, so I will just link all the necessary chapters here, I mean all the chapters in which nafta showed up here.

They are pretty short so anyone that is going to evaluate them, can read through them in like 10mins.
Going roundabout with you guys is exhausting as well obviously you won't even see things eye to eye and would rather retort to head canons

Chapter 253

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 預言者

男主人公 魔王 西洋 学園 中世 チート 魔法 主人公最強 コメディ要素 R15 残酷な描写あり

ncode.syosetu.com

Chapters 254

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 教皇

男主人公 魔王 西洋 学園 中世 チート 魔法 主人公最強 コメディ要素 R15 残酷な描写あり

ncode.syosetu.com

Chapter 255

魔王学院の不適合者　～史上最強の魔王の始祖、転生して子孫たちの学校へ通う～ - 勝利の未来は誰が手に

男主人公 魔王 西洋 学園 中世 チート 魔法 主人公最強 コメディ要素 R15 残酷な描写あり

ncode.syosetu.com

This is from the first showing of nafta to the end of the fight with anos.
The other chapters, I will edit this message as soon as I get them.
I plan on sending all the chapters in which there was a mention of
1. Nafta
2. The crystal
3. Future/possibilities

 

[Tatsumi504]

No it does not, its English
Read it again or rather let me help you break it down, this is the quote
It means if nafta from the past did not see a certain event that later on happens, even if time was to go back and things start again, nafta still wont see it with her precognition. Don't try to overcomplicate things

Interesting how once again you conveniently leave this point out

The future in which Nafta does not exist is certainly different from a future in which she does exist. And it's not reflected in this divine eye."

and now this is the entire scan

「未来神の秩序は、未来を司る秩序。ナフタの存在そのものが、未来の秩序を保っている。ゆえに、ナフタの神眼めにも盲点があります。ナフタが見ることのできない現在は、それより以前の時間にいるナフタにも、未来として映りません」

　ナフタが厳かな声で言う。

「すなわち、ナフタが存在しない未来は、ナフタが存在する未来とは確かに異なる。そして、この神眼には映りません」


"The order of the god of the future is the order that governs the future. Nafta's very existence preserves the order of the future. Hence, there is a blind spot in Nafta's divine eye. The present, which Nafta cannot see, is not seen as the future, even by Nafta, who is in earlier time.
　
Nafta's voice was stern.

"The future in which Nafta does not exist is certainly different from a future in which she does exist. And it's not reflected in this divine eye."

 

[Dereck03]

I'll adress my replies very quickly

Kandaquisort are all the futures of the world, which in turn are equal to the world itself. And if you want to destroy it, you have to destroy all possibilities, which here refers to all futures.

Not to mention the fact that the Nafta sanctuary is only a microcosm of the militia world and all futures are equal to the world's shape meaning all the futures are the same as a world = universe.

Well, that it makes an explicit reference to Kandaquisort being all the futures and that these in turn are the shape of the world (in this case the world of militia which is 4-D) and it is said that each future is equal to the world itself would be proof enough.

Why ignoring the fact of all those futures are equals to a world. Even in its shape, Pain said size =/= shape which is correct but they are taking the shape of militia world which is 4-D.They have all the context of what happens in battle but clearly ignore what Kandaquisort is.

"<Future World Crystal> Kandaquisort is the many futures of this world, and is equal in form to the world. You are now trying to compare what will perish first: the world or yourself. The result is quite obvious." "As you might expect from a goddess who commands the future, you're quite strong. But it's about time you started fighting to the fullest. If you don't start looking into the future with the utmost seriousness, you could perish here." I walked toward Nafta without stopping. In the meantime, the rusted and dissipated Kandaquisort turned into countless brightly shining crystal shards. "Nafta swears. As long as there is a present, the future will rise again and again even if it is destroyed. The only way to destroy the Future World Crystal is to destroy all possibilities." The number of crystal shards increased rapidly, enveloping the place like a shining sandstorm. "This could be another form of the world. Condemned, you are sentenced to a limiting world."

Everything is related to the world (in this case to the world of militia) keeping its shape, being equal, even changing the form.

They are not decided because it is she who has to choose 1 of all those futures that were made by her order. If they were already decided then what would be the point of nafta order to select a future?

Aight that's all.

 

[Hajun]

Lazy person like me will try to make understand not that i don't wanna use another proves just that iam too lazy to bring it

 

[Dereck03]

Lazy person like me will try to make understand not that i don't wanna use another proves just that iam too lazy to bring it

Not to be rude my friend, but all you say is what others have already said previously, you don't seem to bring anything new or of your own, so I would appreciate it if you would not overhelm the thread anymore.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Interesting how once again you conveniently leave this point out

and now this is the entire scan

I'm done arguing but

"The order of the god of the future is the order that governs the future. Nafta's very existence preserves the order of the future. Hence, there is a blind spot in Nafta's divine eye. The present, which Nafta cannot see, is not seen as the future, even by Nafta, who is in earlier time.
　
Naftas voice was stern.

"The future in which Nafta does not exist is certainly different from a future in which she does exist. And it's not reflected in this divine eye."

Means absolutely nothing aside what I said
If she stops existing or dies, then the order of the future also ends.

 

[Dereck03]

If she stops existing or dies, then the order of the future also ends.

No, if a god dies the order will be disrupted and everything related to that order will be altered, if the order is destroyed the world will be completely destroyed and it is the job of the order of order to replace the god before that happens.

 

[Hajun]

If I bring up something new this will be more messed up what it is now

 

[Orioreeem]

It means if nafta from the past did not see a certain event that later on happens, even if time was to go back and things start again, nafta still wont see it with her precognition. Don't try to overcomplicate things

Ehm no

The magical power of destruction that I myself emit inside myself is far stronger than Diedrich's fist and Kandaku Isolte's spear.



Only the Demon King can defeat the Demon King.

And he thought of a way to make me attack me.



And if you come this far, your victory will be unshakable.

The Sword Emperor must have certainly seen that future.

The one-in-10,000 victory is already in hand.

　As if to prove it, Diedrich's fist was swinging wildly.



　I quickly reached out and picked up the hilt of my revving girma, which was sheathed and thrust into him.



"Veneziala," he said.



　At the same time as the magic was exercised, it was limited, and the future was tinged with the possibility of me keeping the sword in its scabbard.



　I had been waiting for this moment.



　A moment of time has passed.



　I pull the sword of Riwaingirma out of its scabbard.

　The silvery white blade of the sword blinks, but the power of the Sword of the Almighty does not make me disappear.



　And so, with the blade, I slice through Diedrich's divine eye.



"......Guahhhhhh......!!!!"



　Fresh blood splatters, and Diedrich loses his light.

　His body is possessed by the god of the future. Nafta's divine eye has lost sight of the future.



　The spear of Kandakuisorte, which had pierced me, corroded black and crumbled to pieces.

　When you can't see the future, you can't localize it.



"......Ah......."



　His voice leaked out slightly.



"...but...but...wh-why...?"


　As inexplicable, Diedrich poses a question.


"Why couldn't Nafta's divine eyes see this future...?"
If there is only the possibility that the sword is sheathed in the future, then if you use <Hamemi kaben genjitsu kaihatsu venejiara> on it, it is as if you had not drawn the sword, even though you had drawn it, right?



　＜If the sword is sheathed in the sheath, even if the sword is drawn, the power of the reviving girma, which is the annihilation of the root of the person who drew the sword, will not be activated.



"Why ...... is ...... ......, why ......?"



　Diedrich questioned, as if puzzled.



Why didn't Nafta's divine eye see this future ......?



　If only he had seen it, he could have stopped the future limitation of not drawing his sword at that moment.



　If I had done so, the <wave body cover manifestation Veneziala> would have lost its effect and I would have disappeared.



"Isn't ...... Nafta's blind spot a future without her?"



I'm not sure how much I can do to help her, but I'm sure she'll be fine. The present, which Nafta cannot see, cannot be seen as the future, even by Nafta in an earlier time.



　This is what she had said just a few moments before.



This future that we have arrived at does not have a part of Naphta's order, her divine eye. In other words, it was a blind spot that the past Nafta could not see.



　The logic is very simple.

　If you destroy the divine eye, you cannot see the future. Not even from the past.



　But because they had the divine eye that could see the future, Nafta and Diedrich had been looking at it all the time and had not thought of that fact.


"……Really…………"

 

[Shadow_Somnius]

Based on the OP and the arguments presented by @Tatsumi504 , @Dereck03, and the others, I agree.

 

[Dog3352]

There are some facts that cannot be changed here, I will try to review everything.

First: There are infinite possibilities/futures in the world of Nafta.

Second: The infinite possibilities are the order of Nafta, the world limited and made of that same order, as well as your spear (both physically Exist obviously).

third: The crystals that Nafta mentions being each a possibility/future and made of order, which makes it impossible for him not to physically exist, since both the world, the crystals and the spear are made of the same order, say that one of them doesn't exist and how to say none of the others exist either.

Fourth: When Nafta mentions about "materializing the future", Nafta is talking about her ability/order, where she chooses one of those futures/possibilities and uses this future/possibility to limit her opponent (or ally).

Fifth: And as mentioned earlier, even if Naphtha or some other order is "destroyed" (which actually isn't that, but just changes the order), the main God "recreates that order as quickly as possible.

Edit: Futures/possibilities are said to have the same shape as the world

(I'm sorry if that happens is irrelevant, just wanted to review the topic)

 

[Tatsumi504]

Means absolutely nothing aside what I said
If she stops existing

How much of the story's mechanisms do you desperately want to contradict? All order are type 1 concepts. Anos literally destroys all futures and the order of the future was unaffected.

Edit: destroying the god that maintained an order would only cause that order to be disturbed/altered, while destroying the order would destroy the world.

"The present which nafta cannot see cannot be seen as a future by nafta from an earlier time"

"The future in which Nafta does not exist is certainly different from a future in which she does exist. And it's not reflected in this divine eye."

This means nafta exists in all futures she can see and any future in which she doesn't exist is a blindspot in her future god's eye. Similarly by destroying nafta's eyes in the present, you can stop her past self from seeing that future.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Aight this seems like a stonewall

 

[WarbleComeBack]

I’ve been quietly reading and given what I’ve read and what I know of the series, nothing pain has said made me personally change my mind, I still agree with upgrade.
(Saying this now since Pain said they are done arguing this topic)

 

[Dereck03]

I am neutral, I don't want my vote to affect the vote of others or say I am biased just because it is my verse. although if I had to choose, I am obviously more in favor.

 

[PrinceofPein]

How much of the story's mechanisms do you desperately want to contradict? All order are type 1 concepts. Anos literally destroys all futures and the order of the future was unaffected.

Edit: destroying the god that maintained an order would only cause that order to be disturbed/altered, while destroying the order would destroy the world.

"The present which nafta cannot see cannot be seen as a future by nafta from an earlier time"

This means nafta exists in all futures she can see and any future in which she doesn't exist is a blindspot in her future god's eye. Similarly by destroying nafta's eyes in the present, you can stop her past self from seeing that future.

I think I prefer what the author said nor your own explanation of what you think he said

 

[Dog3352]

I think I prefer what the author said nor your own explanation of what you think he said

What about the CRT? do you still disagree? And if you still disagree, could you tell me why?

 

[Caduz213]

Means absolutely nothing aside what I said
If she stops existing or dies, then the order of the future also ends.

you definitely don't know anything about this story.Even I who only know the basics am aware that if a god dies, the order is just interrupted. Just like happened to the God of Destruction once Anos killed her

 

[wwereymy235]

you definitely don't know anything about this story.Even I who only know the basics am aware that if a god dies, the order is just interrupted. Just like happened to the God of Destruction once Anos killed her

Wasn’t that literally stated after the events of season 1 in the anime?

 

[Dereck03]

you definitely don't know anything about this story

Isn't it a little obvious that he wouldn't know? He only read nafta's arc and nothing else, that's why I corrected him.

No, if a god dies the order will be disrupted and everything related to that order will be altered, if the order is destroyed the world will be completely destroyed and it is the job of the order of order to replace the god before that happens.

 

[Dog3352]

How about we ignore things that have nothing to do with CRT? (Not to be ignorant), I'm not sure why Pain isn't accepting this currently, since we proved that all possibilities/futures physically exist, we proved that there are infinite possibilities/futures, and even if the order was destroyed after a God dies I don't think I would refute anything yet, since even if the future order had ceased to exist, it wouldn't change the fact that while it existed it was a 2-A structure (if accepted).

 

[PrinceofPein]

since we proved that all possibilities/futures physically exist

These is the major contention and has not been proven, in fact reverse was the case.
Anyway I called some staffs let's wait for them

 

[Caduz213]

Isn't it a little obvious that he wouldn't know? He only read nafta's arc and nothing else, that's why I corrected him.

I thought he didn't know anything about the bow in question.I didn't know that your knowledge of the verse was 0. debating against someone who doesn't know anything and still wants to be right about something is very irritating.

 

[Dereck03]

These is the major contention and has not been proven, in fact reverse was the case.

And the counter of this is that futures are equals to the militia world, they maintain the shape of the militia world and can even change the form of the world.

 

[Dog3352]

These is the major contention and has not been proven, in fact reverse was the case.
Anyway I called some staffs let's wait for them

The inverse? As I have said before, the spear, the world and the crystals/possibilities are all made in the order of the future, to say that the possibilities do not physically exist is the same thing as saying that neither the spear nor the limited world exist physically.

Edit: And I'm not even talking about the fact that futures/possibilities is literally said to have the same shape as the world

 

[Fixxed]

To clarify, we have confirmation that these alternate timelines exist parallel to eachother?

Yes, Because just one future that can exist in one reality, i mean 2 possibility of same thing cannot exist in one reality simultaneously

 

[Fixxed]

And the counter of this is that futures are equals to the militia world, they maintain the shape of the militia world and can even change the form of the world.

Yeah, if they have shape, then they exist physicaly

 

[Firestorm808]

Yes, Because just one future that can exist in one reality, i mean 2 possibility of same thing cannot exist in one reality simultaneously

What I mean is do all the timelines occur simultaneously, not just in the realm of possibility? Can you travel to one timeline from another?