Makoto Nanaya (Low 5-B) vs. Susanoo/Yuuki Terumi (Low-5-B)

[Spawn888]

Both are 5-B in tier.

Makoto has Power of Order and Terumi is Susanoo.

Speed is equalized.

The fight takes place in the ruins of Ibukido.

Terumi is Susanoo and had defeated Ragna and co. after obtaining the Susanoo Unit. Kokonoe deploys Makoto Nanaya as the last line of defense.

Makoto Nanaya is seriously determined and has the power of Order. The Power of Order declares Susanno/Terumi as a dangerous threat to the world and all of existence.

Oh, and a twist to this.

-Makoto has prep and is informed of how hatred and fear empowers Susanoo by Kokonoe.

-Susanoo can't use Time Killer.

-Both sides must win by either death or crippling the opponent.

Can Makoto, using the Power of Order's potential, be able to beat the God of Destruction? Or will Susanoo make her submit to Despair and Fear?

 

[Spawn888]

I thought that this would be an interesting match-up since the Power of Order is actually a reactive power level. Anyway, when you give your opinions, please tell me why specifically please.

 

[EternallyAlone]

Hmmm, this is a bit hard.

If the Power of Order is truly a form of reactive power level and Makoto is not showing hate or fear toward Terumi, then I might as well say Makoto may have the advantage.

But there is a one problem, the Susanoo Unit grants the wielder limitless stamina. I don't think Makoto could outlast Susanoo in stamina unless the empowerment of Hate and Fear has something to play with his stamina, yes?

 

[Spawn888]

Hmmm, this is a bit hard.
If the Power of Order is truly a form of reactive power level and Makoto is not showing hate or fear toward Terumi, then I might as well say Makoto may have the advantage.

But there is a one problem, the Susanoo Unit grants the wielder limitless stamina. I don't think Makoto could outlast Susanoo in stamina unless the empowerment of Hate and Fear has something to play with his stamina, yes?

It actually does. In Chronophantasma, Kokonoe used this method on him and rendered him unable to fight. I'm sure this would effect him even in the Susanoo Unit as it is linked to his very existence.

 

[EternallyAlone]

It's possible, though this fight feels like it is 50/50.

But since this is Susanoo just now getting the Unit, Makoto might have the advantage. Then again, Jin was able to fight him and get wrecked badly in Central Fiction.

 

[Spawn888]

It's possible, though this fight feels like it is 50/50.
But since this is Susanoo just now getting the Unit, Makoto might have the advantage. Then again, Jin was able to fight him and get wrecked badly in Central Fiction.

You mean unable right?

That's because Jin was inhabiting a magically constructed body by Trinity in order to function and play an active role in the fight. If he pushes himself too hard, his body would give out. I strongly believe if Jin were at his peak, he could defeat Susanoo.

But the Power of Order in Blazblue and its wielders function and use it differently. Jin's Order is for specifically Ragna. Celica's Order is to nullify seithr. Makoto's Order manifested by her sheer willpower and determination to protect her friends and loved ones. If anything, Susanoo is indirectly giving her enough strength to put up a good fight in this scenario.

 

[EternallyAlone]

It's possible, though this fight feels like it is 50/50.
But since this is Susanoo just now getting the Unit, Makoto might have the advantage. Then again, Jin was able to fight him and get wrecked badly in Central Fiction.

You mean unable right?
That's because Jin was inhabiting a magically constructed body by Trinity in order to function and play an active role in the fight. If he pushes himself too hard, his body would give out. I strongly believe if Jin were at his peak, he could defeat Susanoo.

But the Power of Order in Blazblue and its wielders function and use it differently. Jin's Order is for specifically Ragna. Celica's Order is to nullify seithr. Makoto's Order manifested by her sheer willpower and determination to protect her friends and loved ones. If anything, Susanoo is indirectly giving her enough strength to put up a good fight in this scenario.

Doesn't Terumi have reactive evolution on his profile. That should give him the advantage and match the Power of Order.

 

[Theglassman12]

just letting you guys know, you can't restrict abilities if you're planning on adding this matchup.

 

[TheEndIsNear45]

Susanoo. Come on, nobody was ever seen physically defeating him in Blazblue.

 

[Eganergo]

Squirrel FTW.

 

[Spawn888]

Squirrel FTW.

Can you explain why?

 

[Spawn888]

Susanoo. Come on, nobody was ever seen physically defeating him in Blazblue.

Unless his soul was ripped out of the unit.

 

[Spawn888]

just letting you guys know, you can't restrict abilities if you're planning on adding this matchup.

Like Time Killer?

 

[Theglassman12]

Yes

 

[Spawn888]

Yes

Can you fix it for me please?

And who do you vote for and why.

 

[Theglassman12]

Susanoo would take it easily with his reactive evolution since it worked against the power of order before, and eventually time killers Makoto to oblivion.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Susano'o would take it quite easily...

Makoto doesn't have the Power of Order as well as someone like Jin or Hakumen and Susano'o Time Killer GG's Makoto due to reactuve evolution.

Plus Susano's hax is more then enough to take out Makoto without the need for Time Killer.

 

[Spawn888]

Susano'o would take it quite easily...
Makoto doesn't have the Power of Order as well as someone like Jin or Hakumen and Susano'o Time Killer GG's Makoto due to reactuve evolution.

Plus Susano's hax is more then enough to take out Makoto without the need for Time Killer.

They are 5-B. Isn't Susanoo only haxed in 2-A?

This fight takes place after Terumi obtained the Unit, which means he isn't at his full power or even adjusted to the Unit itself.

 

[Theglassman12]

he still has Time killer, and a lot of stuff he has is 2-A by default.

 

[Spawn888]

he still has Time killer, and a lot of stuff he has is 2-A by default.

Doesn't Time Killer take a lot of time to charge up?

 

[Theglassman12]

No not really. Hakumen was able to use it right off the bat on Izanami and used it on Noel after a brief encounter, and even Terumi when he was on the ropes.

 

[Spawn888]

No not really. Hakumen was able to use it right off the bat on Izanami and used it on Noel after a brief encounter, and even Terumi when he was on the ropes.

But why doesn't Terumi use it on Ragna or Jin since they were a threat to him in Central Fiction?

And if this were the case, why was Hakumen having a hard time with Terumi and needed help from Platinum if the technique were so easy to pull off?

 

[Theglassman12]

he was going to use it, but Ragna used his black beast form to force Terumi out of the Susanoo unit to prevent that.

You do know that with Izanami and Noel, Platinum was nowhere near Hakumen, and he was able to time killer both of them without any help right?

 

[Spawn888]

he was going to use it, but Ragna used his black beast form to force Terumi out of the Susanoo unit to prevent that.
You do know that with Izanami and Noel, Platinum was nowhere near Hakumen, and he was able to time killer both of them without any help right?

And can you show me proof or any implication of Terumi intending to use Time Killer against Ragna? Where exactly in the dialogue does it suggest he was going to use Time Killer?

He was able to use Time Killer on Izanami because she knew that it wouldn't have an effect on her, so there was no reason for her to dodge something that can't hurt or kill her. As for Noel, Hakumen was able to get a hit on her because she paralyzed in fear from Hakumen's killing intent, similar to how Ragna was terrified of him in Calamity Trigger, leaving her open to attack.

It's safe to say that in order for Time Killer to work, the victim must be open for the attack or unable to dodge, thus immobilized. Plus, Time Killer wastes a lot of energy after use. It must be used carefully not all willy-nilly and recklessly.

Hakumen was able to land a clean hit on Terumi because Platinum immobilized him, giving Hakumen a chance to pull it off. If it were so easy to do, he could've done it to Terumi without strugglling.

 

[Theglassman12]

He was going to use it on Jin to kill the Power of Order and implied that he was going to kill Nine with it to create a reality without Ars Magus just to create more fear for him to grow more powerful from.

That doesn't disprove him not needing prep against Izanami cause he can use it just like that with no prep. Uhh, no she wasn't paralyzed, she just sensed killing intent and was fighting back to survive, and in the end of the fight he landed Time Killer on her in the end, only to find out it didn't work.

 

[Spawn888]

He was going to use it on Jin to kill the Power of Order and implied that he was going to kill Nine with it to create a reality without Ars Magus just to create more fear for him to grow more powerful from.
That doesn't disprove him not needing prep against Izanami cause he can use it just like that with no prep. Uhh, no she wasn't paralyzed, she just sensed killing intent and was fighting back to survive, and in the end of the fight he landed Time Killer on her in the end, only to find out it didn't work.

Jin's body was failing and weakening due to pushing himself too hard, there was nothing that implies that he was going to use Time Killer or statements. We must be looking at a different story mode because I have not seen anything that says or shown Susanoo using Time Killer, my friend. Please give me video clip evidence of this information, sorry but this doesn't sound right.

Hakumen was already preparing himself to kill Izanami, Valkenhayn confirmed this during a conversation with him. Unfortunately, it had no effect on her and again, she didn't bother to dodge because she knows well enough it can't hurt her. Fighting back is nothing but an instinct. Noel was acting out of fight-or-flight. Her fear and paranoia of people trying to kill her causes her to fight out of fear, not even thinking rationally, which leads to making mistakes and Noel isn't really one of the most composed fighters in Blazblue.

 

[Theglassman12]

He was literally yelling for the Power of Order to die as he was going for the killing blow before Ragna intervened and went full Azure and partial Black Beast to even contend with Susanoo.

Dude, you're arguing that the technique is not easy to pull off, if it wasn't that easy to pull off, then he wouldn't have been able to use two Time killers in short time periods from each other, one against terumi, and like after he regrouped with the gang when he destroyed the tower with Jin, and the second time he just went straight for Time Killer. Izanami not being affected by it doesn't disprove Time Killer being easy to use.

Noel being unable to think rationally doesn't make her fighting suck, otherwise she would've been beaten to a pulp a long time ago, especially when this is the same girl that has her little Murakumo mode where she acts robotic and just fights for survival without any emotions holding her back.

 

[Spawn888]

He was literally yelling for the Power of Order to die as he was going for the killing blow before Ragna intervened and went full Azure and partial Black Beast to even contend with Susanoo.
Dude, you're arguing that the technique is not easy to pull off, if it wasn't that easy to pull off, then he wouldn't have been able to use two Time killers in short time periods from each other, one against terumi, and like after he regrouped with the gang when he destroyed the tower with Jin, and the second time he just went straight for Time Killer. Izanami not being affected by it doesn't disprove Time Killer being easy to use.

Noel being unable to think rationally doesn't make her fighting suck, otherwise she would've been beaten to a pulp a long time ago, especially when this is the same girl that has her little Murakumo mode where she acts robotic and just fights for survival without any emotions holding her back.

Susanoo yelling for Jin to die doesn't mean anything and nothing was said nor implied by substitles or the visuals of him using Time Killer. That's just assumption. Jin is still a human, even Kagura who is his superior can be killed from a punch from Susanoo or Azrael. There was no need to use that technique. Again, this doesn't prove anything unless we are looking at different Blazblue stories.

Izanami didn't dodge is my point, granting Hakumen a chance to strike. With Terumi, he was struggling to pull it off and probably wouldn't have been able to if it weren't for Platinum.

I never said she sucked at fighting. Emotions play a part in one's fighting skills, since she was fighting out of the fear of dying, she's very likely to make a mistake.

He was going to use it on Relius, but the latter said and I quote: "Hm? Do you speak of the "Time Killer" I would suggest saving your strength. That is useless on me now."

---

In order to perform Time Killer, it acquires a shit load of energy, concentration, and effort to pull off. Otherwise, he should've used that on Terumi long time ago or against Relius in Chronophantasma in his Arcade Mode. Hell, use it on Azrael!

Most importantly, I need proof and evidence of Terumi ever going to use Time Killer. Otherwise, we are stuck in a time loop, dude.

 

[Brunout]

Ins't time killer a technnique from Hakumen only?

When Hakumen used it in chronophantasma, Terumi had no idea about what was going on, he didn't reconized the technnique at all, showin that he had no knowledge about it

 

[Spawn888]

Ins't time killer a technnique from Hakumen only?
When Hakumen used it in chronophantasma, Terumi had no idea about what was going on, he didn't reconized the technnique at all, showin that he had no knowledge about it

Hakumen seems to be the only one who can perform such a technique and not Terumi. So, Susannoo/Terumi performing such is all based on assumptions.

 

[Theglassman12]

Time Killer is a move from the Susanoo Unit. It's not a Hakumen only thing cause he only knows it with the Unit he's in. Relius flat out states that the Susanoo Unit itself can slash through time. And Terumi is the original Susanoo unit. Saying he doesn't have it is flat out wrong cause he was the original person with that power to begin with.

 

[Brunout]

Then explain why Terumi doesn't know about the move in chronophantasma.

The susano'o unit can slash time, but the time killer was a technnique created by Hakumen. Terumi didn't had any knowledge about it.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Spawn Kagura doesn't have the power of order to bring him back, so that's not even a good comparison. Considering how the Power of Order itself is capable of rewinding time to bring someone back like it did with Jin, being able to use time killer to kill Jin makes sense since the time rewind is what brings him back.

And if this were the case, why was Hakumen having a hard time with Terumi and needed help from Platinum if the technique were so easy to pull off?

You yourself said this. You're arguing that the attack is not easy to pull off, which it isn't, otherwise Hakumen wouldn't have been able to use it right away when Izanami entered if it was that difficult to use, and fighting against a dude that already has prior knowledge on what the Susanoo Unit does in the first place DOES make it harder for it to land cause the dude he's fighting knows what Time Killer does.

You're ignoring her murakumo form that basically kicks in whenever she's in like any fight. That form cuts off like any and all emotions that would hinder her in combat, and she's been in that form multiple times throughout the series.

 

[Theglassman12]

Then explain why Terumi doesn't know about the move in chronophantasma.
The susano'o unit can slash time, but the time killer was a technnique created by Hakumen. Terumi didn't had any knowledge about it.

He did, in Continuum Shift he flat out says when fighting Hakumen that he doesn't want to get hit by his blade so he went full Azure to make sure he wasn't Time Killered. You're talking about Trinity being able to sneak up on him and rendering him unable to do much, which is not the same as him not knowing what his own ability is.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Then explain why Terumi doesn't know about the move in chronophantasma.
The susano'o unit can slash time, but the time killer was a technnique created by Hakumen. Terumi didn't had any knowledge about it.

Terumi does know about it, it is THE reason why he doesn't want to face Hakumen. He was taken aback by Trinity restraining him.

 

[TheEndIsNear45]

Lol since the **** did Powrer of Order rewind time?

I am sorry but that is down right BS.

 

[TheEndIsNear45]

And Noel and Mu were seperated in Central Fiction, she sure as hell couldn't turn into Mu when Hakumen was bodying her.

 

[Theglassman12]

@End Continuum shift showed the power of Order rewinding time for Jin when he was going to die to bang.

I wasn't referring to Mu, I was referring to her robotic state where she has the blank stare and becomes fully bloodlusted.

 

[Spawn888]

@End Continuum shift showed the power of Order rewinding time for Jin when he was going to die to bang.
I wasn't referring to Mu, I was referring to her robotic state where she has the blank stare and becomes fully bloodlusted.

No, Takamagara were the ones that rewinded time. You miss understood the scene, they were the ones that are controlling the events of Blazblue's timelines, not the Power of Order.

And Noel's robotic state is her Mu-12 persona, but that alone isn't a problem anymore now that she is becoming more aware of her powers. However, in Central Fiction, the Noel and Mu persona were both seperated.

I strongly suggest you go back and analyze the story again. Otherwise, this argument is pointless. Please provide the evidence to back up your claims, I need clips of dialogue!

 

[Theglassman12]

Their power was a direct response to Jin being close to the brink of death as they basically reminded time to make sure he wouldn't die.

Are you reading anything that I'm saying? Or are you just cherry picking whatever my point is? Cause I said that I WAS NOT referring to Mu, Calamity Trigger, Noel met Nu-13, she ends up acting robotic towards her, THAT'S what I'm talking about, not her Murakumo form, the one where she talks and acts like a Murakumo.

I can say the same for you since you guys assume Terumi didn't know that Time Killer was a thing which is flat out wrong when it was stated by him that he did not want to get hit by Hakumen's blade in his story mode in Continuum Shift. And again, using Terumi as proof that Time Killer is hard to pull off is not a remotely solid argument when Hakumen is fighting the dude who knows about time killer more than anyone else.