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MAJOR Kirby revisions

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The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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My friends. It is time. I have finally gathered enough evidence to prove... Drumroll please. That Kirby is universe level, and that Magolor isn't an outlier. Alright. So here it goes.

In RtD, it is stated that the Ancients created the Master Crown along with a few other items. Namely, the Galactic NOVAs. Note how there's an S at the end of NOVA. There's more than one. Note how it says in his flavor text that Marx Soul absorbed A NOVA. Not just NOVA, which would imply that there was just the one. But the way it's worded implies that there's multiple.

It makes a lot of sense that NOVAs and the Master Crown are equal in power. There's too many "coincidences" to say otherwise. For staters, they are the creations that are so great in power that someone tricked Kirby into getting them to it.

They are the only artifacts that give the enemy a Soul form (Sectonia went on a Miracle Fruit spree, and Drawcia did it on her own), they possessed both create dimensions that are destroyed when defeated. Both are mindless. And both have potent reality warping abilities. Star Dream is a reverse engineered NOVA, and proves to be just as capable as an ancient artifact by doing some reality warping, possession, and having a Soul Form too.

It is also stated to be the strongest machine in existence, and considering how the guy without made that claim created a machine that stomped the Halberd, I'd have no doubt.

Finally, it is also implied that the Ancients created the Star Rod(s). You know, those things that are used to summon NOVA in KSS(U)? And it takes that to defeat the Nightmare Wizard. So that's Universal feats in Kirby's Adventure/Nightmare in Dreamland, Kirby Super Star/Ultra, Kirby Return to Dreamland, and Kirby Planet Robobot. I hope that is enough to prove no outlier, and enough for an upgrade.

By the way. Who this would scale to? I have two lists: conservatively and realistically.

Conservatively: Kirby, Landia, Lor Starcutter, Star Dream, NOVA, Marx, Galacta Knight, Meta Knight, Dark Meta Knight, Nightmare, and King Dedede.

Realistically: Everyone who's 4-A right now (except Goriath, who'd actually get a downgrade due to my previous scaling chart)
 
Universe level Galacta Knight is all I need. I like this and I think this is plausible, but I'll wait for the Kirby experts and admins for their take on this.
 
The feat is one, but many other individuals share the same power. Think Chaos Emeralds for Sonic.
 
I don't understand why it's an outlier in the first place, most Nintendo characters don't have a established limit, nor are the shown to have ever go all out (yes there are few exceptions like the LoZ). Kirby is never stated to be "this strong" in any game and most feats he does casually. In the kirby verse there are enemies that range from planet to Universal and Kirby always shows the same amount of effort beating whichever one.

So I think the upgrade is fine even if it's just possibly.
 
Well wouldn't that make it an outlier for Magolor himself then? If that would upgrade several characters from a single feat...
 
I really don't like how we constantly demand consistency from Kirby of all characters. Nintendo has a reputation for being light-hearted and inconsistent.

I'd also argue that the Super Abilities would be Universal, not by scaling from Kirby, but by default as well, as while Kirby may or may not necessarily need them to deal the finishing blow, Kirby DID use them to break barriers that a 3-A Magolor places up in an attempt to augmentate his durability. Plus how much the game hypes the crap out of that final struggle with the Ultra Sword, so even if they weren't necessarily needed to deal the final blow from a gameplay stance, the game itself seems to imply from sheer hype that this seems to be the optimal way to finish it.

That being said, I'm not sure about base Kirby being Universal. At the very least, the Super Abilities need an upgrade.
 
AwesomeAussie27 said:
Oooooooh Universal Kirby.
I wonder how the Xenoblade fans would feel about this.
Click to expand...
Well Shulk is Universal+, not just Universal... Kirby would still get stomped by him.
 
We demand Consistency for EVERY Nintendo games, not just Kirby.

We don't have 2-C base Mario for that, or adding up the Galaxy feat for regular Mario.

And just look at the mess that is Pokémon.
 
It seems debatable to me, but if other people think it's fine I'm fine with it.
 
I feel like I am asked to participate in a lot of Kirby threads. lol

Anyway, can't really support an upgrade. Especially not for the reasoning of Master Crown = NOVAs due to having the same creators.

The Adeptus Mechanicus can produce both an Arc Maul and an Imperator Class Imperial Tita, but this does not mean they are even remotely close in power, effectiveness, or purpose.

On top of that, the Master Crown has, by far, the best showings in the entire franchise, bar none. NOVA powered Marx up to an unspecified degree, and even going by Marx's own feats (of which there are very few), and giving him the serious benefit of the doubt in assuming the black holes he creates are actual black holes, he'd be around Large Star level. The reason the Master Crown's power scaling to Kirby is considered an outlier is because, in the very next game in fact, Kirby almost loses to someone whose threat level without any kind of scaling would be planetary.

We are already very generous to Kirby as is, for as much as I love the franchise, the Tier 5 feats are far more abundant than the Tier 4 feats, but at least people scaling to those is believable based on other showings throughout the series.
 
The two artifacts basically have the same purpose though. They're basically cut from the same cloth. It's not like how humans made both a sword and a nuke, because a sword is for slashing and a nuke is for bombing. NOVAs and the Master Crown both allow reality warping, changing form, creating black holes, and dimensions that are connected to your life force at the cost of your sanity.

If they have the power to give things on a planetary or greater scale powers like that, then I don't see why they would give more power to a Crown than they would to their equivalent of Shenron
 
Having the same purpose does not equate to the same power, especially if, as said in the OP, there are multiple NOVAs and only a single Master Crown, which was the only thing stated and shown to have such power.
 
Reason I brought up the multiple novae is because it means that the Ancients are powerful enough to create a multitude of Planet sized reality warpers. With that kind of power, they'd have no reason to unequally distribute it, especially considering how something solely used to summon it has the power to blow large chunks of the moon up.
 
If there are multiple versions of NOVA, but only one Master Crown, which is also held in a separate reality and guarded by a dragon whose goal is to keep people from using it, I see no reason to assume any of the NOVA have even remotely comparable power to the Master Crown, since if they did, they would have simply made more Master Crowns, or made no Master Crown and even more NOVA, as the other would have zero reason to exist.
 
NOVA can also only be summoned by traveling to different planets to activate rods guarded by their own bosses and then traveling to another random open space in the universe at the end of the galaxy. Not to mention that there are NOVAs in Halcandra.
 
That is at most a minor method to dissuade usage of NOVA for menial reasons, as opposed to specifically hiding something and proceeding to place it under constant guard specifically so that it cannot be used.

Only one of these two things was stated to allow dominion over the entire universe, and it was the same one which was most explicitly intended to not be used.

On top of that, it is likely that going by in-game description, the Ancients are the ones who entrusted Landia to guard the Master Crown, and I'm pretty sure they'd be most aware of its power.
 
Even Star Dream would've gone on a Universal life wiping spree if Kirby didn't stop him. Also, during the creation of Star Dream, Haltmann's daughter was sent to Another Dimension (for the record, the Another Dimension, not just another dimension) which is home of the NOVA's and Master Crown. Too many coincidences for them to be that different in power. I highly doubt NOVAs would be billions upon billions of times weaker than the Master Crown
 
Universal life wiping is nowhere near the same as controlling the fabric of a universe.

Again, there is nothing suggesting they are similar in power, nor that they need to be. Same creators =/= same power, just as same purpose =/= same power. On top of that, NOVA grants one wish. The Master Crown supplies a constant stream of near-limitless powers and new abilities to its wearer, allowing them to do whatever they want whenever they want. It is not as if their function or results are even the exact same, either.
 
I don't know, as I don't know everything about Kirby, so there may in fact be something that states the NOVAs rival the power of the Master Crown. But otherwise, I cannot go on pure speculation.
 
I think that Azathoth seems to make sense.
 
One thing I've found is that Galacta Knight came from Another Dimension, and that HAL heavily implies that Marx and Magolor are equals with their cameos. Heck. He even implies that he KNOWS Marx
 
Also, NOVAs are stated to have the same power as the Lor Starcutter. Said ship was protected by Landia too, and stayed intact (sort of) by a Master Crown empowered Landia.
 
Lor Starcutter is primarily used to travel massive distances and between universes, though. Not as a weapon. Magolor uses it as a weapon during the final battle, but more as just a secondary thing, and the power of the Master Crown is shown to be far greater.

The Master Crown was also quite literally on Landia at all times, prior to Magolor taking it.
 
Cropfist said:
somewhat related, but Meta Knight was stated to be able to control the universe with his sword.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that only in the anime and hasn't His sword shown absolutely No reality warping feats Like ......... Ever?
 
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