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MAJOR Kirby revisions

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If I may, I'd like to add a couple of things. In Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, Kirby ends up defeating Master Hand and Crazy Hand to get the final pieces of the mirror to get to Dark Mind.

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Hand

It is also suggested that Master Hand and Crazy Hand are actually part of the Kirbyverse and aren't just a cameo, as Uja (an enemy from Squeak Squad) can take the form of Master Hand (though he doesn't get any of the attacks)

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Uja

Master Hand isn't even the strongest boss in the game, as Dark Mind is having Master Hand work for him.

As you can tell, Kirby defeats all three. That could easily put Kirby at Universal if you wanted to count it.
 
As long as I have been waiting for Kirby to get an upgrade like this, I still don't want the wiki to be associated with the Google Plus debaters, as this is exactly the level of power they depict Kirby at. Even if it does hold some water, I think we should leave Kirby at "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" just to play it safe.
 
You know what Cal? I'd normally be against this, but it also means I'd get to see Beerus get clowned by Kirby so I'm willing to support this just to see Beerus take the L lmao
 
If Azzy and the others can support this, then I will definitely support it as well.
 
Grudgeman1706 said:
If Azzy and the others can support this, then I will definitely support it as well.
Click to expand...
Azzy isn't supporting it though.

@Bruce

That's a very arbitrary reason, and I'm pretty sure your support won't be counted for that.
 
I know, I was just joking because I hate Beerus and love Kirby.


I am actually against this beacuse I think this is an outlier regardless as even though they have been granted the same power they feats are drastically different.
 
Hmmm, sadly Azzy's reasoning makes sense, in this case, I can't say I support this.

@Bruce, you probably should have said that in your og comment, just saying for the next time.
 
Not too often i disagree against a Kirby upgrade but these statements about NOVA seem way too vague. And i already tried the Master Hand argument a long while back....yeah you would need something more concrete if you wanted 3-A Kirby. At least that's my take on it.
 
Also Cal, Kirby needed help from 3 people comparable to him to beat a 3B possibly 3-A character.


Kirby even so would still only be possibly 3-B+
 
No one has responded about my latest string of evidence. Namely that according to HAL, Galacta Knight would be at the very least comparable to Magolor considering he's the strongest warrior in the galaxy, and his home is Another Dimension (Magolor's home), that NOVAs have the same power as Lor Starcutter, which survived hits from Landia, who at his peak was equal to Magolor at his peak, and that HAL goes out of their way to establish a connection between Marx and Magolor.
 
That last string of evidence looks pretty solid imo, but I still think that if it were to be accepted, I'd try to keep the "At least 4-A" as part of Kirby's rating alongside the possibility of it being 3-A, just to keep it safe.

Like I've said before, I don't want the wiki to be associated with Google+ debaters. Because universal Kirby is an extremely common argument you'll find on there.
 
I'm not going to give an opinion on the thread itself, however not wanting to have similiar ratings to other sites is far from a legitamate reason not to accept something.

If there is more evidence to support Kirby being this powerful (which I am not knowledgable enough to say whether or not sadly), then there is no reason at all not to put that.

Who cares if Google+ also thinks Kirby is 3-A? That says nothing about this wiki. If anything, what would make our site look worse is if we change our ratings just based on what other people might think about us regardless of evidence.
 
@SD

Gee, thank you for the "vote of confidence". lol

@Cal

Whoops. Just got back online. Anyway, yes, Lor Starcutter "survived" an encounter with Landia, but this is not the same as engaging in direct combat with Landia. The events are portrayed as Magolor stealing Lor Starcutter, Landia heavily damaging it as Mags tries to escape, and the ship promptly crashing in Dreamland. I don't think that's nearly enough to put it in the same league as the Master Crown, especially since the Crown was still Magolor's goal, and Lor Starcutter was just his escape option.
 
I'm sorry if I don't fully understand. I wasn't aware that you had to engage in combat to get your durability scaled. I mean, the machine that gives Supes his 3-B rating didn't engage in combat with the Big Bang, nor did it engage in combat with Supes himself. Sorry if this somehow sounded rude in any way, man.

Also, how about my other points?
 
Because again, Lor Starcutter didn't exactly fight Master Crown Landia. Magolor fled in it, and it was nearly destroyed without even engaging in combat. That is not really a good durability feat.

Galacta Knight = Magolor isn't really useful, since none of what makes Magolor so strong is his own power, but that of the Master Crown.

NOVA having the same power as Lor Starcutter = being nowhere near the Master Crown.

Assuming Landia with the Master Crown is exactly as strong as Magolor is also a slippery slope, as Landia did not show very much use of it, and did not use its reality-warping powers in the same way Magolor did. There's a reason the Crown only consumed one of them.

Marx and Magolor having a connection is...not really helpful, since on their own, neither are anywhere near top tier in the verse. Marx gained power from NOVA, and Magolor from the Master Crown. Marx was initially defeated with relative ease, while Magolor was treated as a huge threat who required new abilities to finish off.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
A 4-A surviving any sort of attacks done by a 3-A IS a durability feat. It would have been obliterated otherwise.
Click to expand...
This is the same as giving every Pokemon who survives casual attacks from the Creation Trio for plot reasons Multiversal durability.

Lor Starcutter didn't exactly "survive", either. It was wrecked.

Not to mention, again, this assumes Landia was using the full power of the Master Crown, which is incredibly doubtful based on everything in the scenes before and after.
 
Your example is gameplay mechanic or just plain PIS. They won't have Pokémon die on screen. KO is just a way to prove that the Pokémon was defeated.

We don't really have any idea if Landia was going all out. I don't think it's safe to assume it didn't if we don't even have a quote hinting to it.
 
wtf This isn't in any way gameplay mechanics? There are multiple moments in the manga and anime, wherein the Creation Trio are shown to be at this level of power, and regular pokemon aren't instantly erased from existence upon being hit. Also, Darkrai and multiple Pokemon from the manga say hi.

Lor Starcutter is absolutely wrecked, and only isn't 100% destroyed so there's a way for the final events of the game to even take place.

This is not a durability feat. At all. It is a plot point.
 
That's not a fair comparison. Also, about Landia vs Lor. Not the second time. And the first time, it survived long enough to make it to Kirby's dimension. Plus, isn't Magolor not going all out still 3-B? And why wouldn't Landia go all out against a thing he knows is powerful (he's been protecting it along with the crown) with intentions of taking an almost as powerful weapon?

Just remembered why we have this as an outlier. I have came up with a.hypothesis for why it shouldn't be true. I'll call it the Golden Frieza factor. Basically, I'm comparing Sectonia to Frieza. Both didn't have any feats above planetary, and both took out a character wayyyy above their pay grade with a sneak attack. If I recall correctly from my Triple Deluxe play through, she sucker punched him with that vine squeeze. Don't see how that's different from the laser.
 
This is gameplay mechanic for the games and just PIS for the anime/manga. As I said many time before, in Pokémon media a "death" is very often "censored" into a simple KO.

In the case of Kirby, death or at least a much bigger way of defeat happens very often. The Ship still having all of its parts functoning wouldn't happen with such a high level attack. Beside, the cinematic still shows the ship able to fly a bit and still whole after the fight.

Granted it isn't exactly = to Landia, but it isn't billions of times weaker.
 
No, it's a very fair comparison. You cannot use something being destroyed, but not absolutely destroyed beyond any chance of repair, by an unknown number of attacks of unknown intensity as a solid durability feat. That is not how this works.

Golden Frieza has been explained multiple times before. Dragon Ball is a series about characters rising in power. Since then, there have been multiple other universal statements, meaning that Goku and Beerus' clash isn't a one-time thing.

Kirby fighting an opponent greatly above anything he's ever faced, never fighting anything of that level again, and then being nearly beaten by something much weaker is what makes this a clear outlier.

Goku was shot through the heart with a laser when his guard was down. He couldn't just recover from that. Kirby was grabbed by Sectonia's vines and could not break free despite struggling, requiring Dedede and Taranza to save him. That is not the same.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
This is gameplay mechanic for the games and just PIS for the anime/manga. As I said many time before, in Pokémon media a "death" is very often "censored" into a simple KO.
In the case of Kirby, death or at least a much bigger way of defeat happens very often. The Ship still having all of its parts functoning wouldn't happen with such a high level attack. Beside, the cinematic still shows the ship able to fly a bit and still whole after the fight.

Granted it isn't exactly = to Landia, but it isn't billions of times weaker.
Click to expand...
I didn't even use the games as an example. Gameplay mechanics never comes into play, here. I've also explained why yes, it is obviously PIS in the anime/manga, which is exactly what it is, here. Lor Starcutter isn't wrecked beyond measure so that the game can actually happe. If it was 100% destroyed and Magolor couldn't return, there would be no game.
 
The ship was still intact when Landia attacks it when Kirby and co arrive. And the plot could've still progressed even if it were destroyed again. Heck, it would've been beneficiary to KIRBY if the Lor was destroyed the second time.
 
@Saikou

Did you listen to anything I said about how Lor Starcutter is integral to the point of the entire game? Because people seem to be ignoring that.

@Cal

How, though? Isn't Lor literally the game Hub?
 
I just said how it could have been easy to just have Landia blow away the Ship on Popstar instead of having it escape and breaks down here. If the ship wasn't there Magolor just wouldn't have made into contact with Kirby or survived at all either.
 
Landia following Magolor to Popstar would not only leave the rest of the artifacts it guards open to being stolen, but the whole game would literally just be the final two bosses of the game.
 
Not really, by the time they are there, Kirby just needs to defeat Landia, or so he things. The Lor is obsolete except to save Kirby at the end.

Response to the hub comment.
 
The real cal howard said:
Not really, by the time they are there, Kirby just needs to defeat Landia, or so he things. The Lor is obsolete except to save Kirby at the end.
Response to the hub comment.
Click to expand...
No, I mean it would just no longer be there, but it's an important part of the game.

I also forgot it saves Kirby. That's kinda important.
 
It's only important gameplay item the first half. After the travel, then it becomes a nuisance and then an ex machina
 
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