Lucci CRT 3: The Payback War

[DaMonkeMan]

Disagree fra, always thought lucci scaling to gear 5th made no sense

This comment is logically contradictionary.
Edit. Nvm

 

[StrawHatArslan]

This comment is logically contradictionary.
Edit. Nvm

I didn’t realize I said disagree so I changed it LMAO

 

[ZKillerz]

Ok so it’s pretty much been established that no one has been trying to scale Lucci to the Yonko or G5 Luffy's stronger attacks, just downscaling off of G5 Luffys regular punches with buso. Which tbf is something we already do the profiles they just don’t do a good job explaining that.

AP
we should all know by now that no amount of holding back or casualness would change Lucci’s H6A since OP god tiers are literally hundreds of times into H6A rn.

Speed
As far as speed, regardless of whether Luffy was or wasn’t using FS against Lucci. He matched Luffy twice which would still show some level of low end relativity to a casual G5. We already use this same logic in Post Udon Luffy's key where we have him FTL but highlight he’s inferior and could barely dodge Kaido’s Thunder Bagua at the time.

LS
as for LS, I actually use to be on team Anti Class P Lucci LS but then I realized something. G5 Luffy doesn’t struggle to lift Bajrang Gun, like at all(at least from what we could tell). Class P lifting might just be a casual thing for this Luffy as scary as that sounds. Now this would be different if Luffy had to summon all his strength to barely lift a fist that was barely in Class P. But that’s not the case here.

Worse I could ever see is at least Class T, likely Class P but KT and Deceived arguments are just more convincing rn.

Justifications
I will also say I agree with the idea of changing the justifications to better reflect how casual the encounter was but in a way that doesn’t disingenuously downplay Lucci’s feats.

Kachon’s versions don’t look bad.

I fully agree with this assessment

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yes the **** I can, because it's not just the crts, it's you mentioning them in every single thread

Imma ignore everything else because you didn't even tackle my argument.

He never said that. Now you're just pulling

"G4 with no Haki" G4 is a Haki transformation. G4th is Yonko level. You don't like G4th being up there, then mald

No, because you're on headass timing
Luffy consistently dodged

Reaction is based on eyesight, not physical speed. What the hell are you talking about

Where is Shishi Sonson in a picture I sent

Doesn't prove shit

Because Kaidou then was faster than Luffy.
This isn't "we're relative but you can't hit me because I have future sight", you're mentioning unequal matchups

Ok. Proved nothing

This is all practically irrelevant baby shit where you just whine in retaliation, so I'm gonna ignore this first half because it's not really anything of merit anyway and I don't think it's controversial to skip it.
Also, no, you can't make a Discussion Rule over something that I:
Admitted that I would never make another thread or mention about again
Only made 2 CRTs on which were months apart
Barely talk about unless it's actually brought up
You can't make a whole ass DR because someone happens to disagree with scaling that you really like. That's incredibly biased and immature, just let me be.
Not like I'm going to try it again should this fail.

You're saying "he doesn't scale to the Luffy who fought Kaidou"
He scales to Luffy
Who scales to High 6-A
So he scales to High 6-A

You failing to comprehend why that's how we do things and calling it "incomprehensible dog shit of an argument" is hilariously upsetting

I don't give a **** how Luffy scales to High 6-A. Idc if it's King, Kaidou, even Whitebeard.
He scales.
And Lucci scales through that

You're the mf who called him a God Tier despite him not actually scaling to the god tiers
Before you say it, no, he only downscales from Luffy.
Each attack from Luffy knocked him right into a wall, one arguably could have cracked his neck, the other 2 made him bleed and one even knocked him the **** out lol.

If I punch and break a rock, I don't care if Zeus himself struck that rock and it didn't break, I scale to the rock. Simple

Not even Hawkins could make a strawman this big.

Recovery ≠ regen
I'm talking about the lack of damage

I wouldn't call it a lack of damage.
Mole clearly made him bleed from the mouth a bit and knocked him into a different section of the lab it seems, so while it did hurt him he took it well enough that we can still do a downscale for it.
The last attack is the biggest problem. If you think he simply wasn't damaged/hurt by the other attacks, then you are basically saying that Luffy had simply one shot him with the last punch, which would make the scaling fucky as Lucci had took his Buso-Amped kick kind of well, and this attack can't possibly be that much stronger than Dawn Whip.

Crocodile never stopped his strike. Stop using this in every thread

Sorry.

and he doesn't scale to Akainu because he never did that either

Oh, okay. I apologize for the misunderstanding...

You clearly don't know what a blitz is when you send every panel of Lucci getting scratched as a blitz

And he didn't get knocked out extremely quick. He didn't even get knocked out.
Lucci lost to a superior move.
This is like saying Lucci shouldn't scale to Enies Lobby base Luffy cause G3rd almost put him down.

...where'd he get one shot?

Ah, you right, he wasn't knocked out or blitzed!
Man, you're so right. I must have been reading it wrong. He was just taking a dirt nap!
**** man.. You're so smart.
You a rocket scientist or somn?
Sheesh.

 

[ZKillerz]

Jinbe scales to a weakened Linlin and he doesn't scale to Akainu because he never did that either

I know this might be nitpicking, but how does Jimbei not scale to Akainu's LS due to this feat?
If you want to argue that it's inconsistent that's fine, but saying he doesn't scale at all is kind of crazy

 

[KingTempest]

I know this might be nitpicking, but how does Jimbei not scale to Akainu's LS due to this feat?
If you want to argue that it's inconsistent that's fine, but saying he doesn't scale at all is kind of crazy

You don't scale for blocking, you scale for pushing against
He didn't carry the weight of his punch or anything like that

 

[ZKillerz]

You don't scale for blocking, you scale for pushing against
He didn't carry the weight of his punch or anything like that

Is there a reason we dont scale characters for blocking feats?

 

[KingTempest]

Is there a reason we dont scale characters for blocking feats?

Lifting strength is lifting
Blocking is dura and AP

Energy ≠ Force, they aren't pushing the attack back in that instance

 

[ZKillerz]

Lifting strength is lifting
Blocking is dura and AP

Energy ≠ Force, they aren't pushing the attack back in that instance

But in order to successfully block something you have to match and equal out the force or else you'd get sent flying

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That's objectively true.
If you try to block an attack you'll usually get overpowered and fly off, if you completely stop it you have equal or relative LS.

 

[KingTempest]

But in order to successfully block something you have to match and equal out the force or else you'd get sent flying

Incorrect, you match or equal the energy (AP), or else you get sent flying
An inanimate object not moving when you push it doesn't mean the object has superior lifting strength
Same with a person
Most of it is durability

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y'all ain't understanding lifting strength. Momentarily blocking something has nothing to do with lifting strength scaling. In order for it to be lifting strength, there needs to be a period of prolonged application of force. It's akin to the same reason we don't scale lifting strength from striking strength. The force at which you punch =/= the force you can exert lifting.

 

[ZKillerz]

Incorrect, you match or equal the energy (AP), or else you get sent flying
An inanimate object not moving when you push it doesn't mean the object has superior lifting strength
Same with a person
Most of it is durability

An inanimate object not moving when you push it is most likely due to its weight, and at most Jimbei weighs under a ton, so I don't think that's a valid comparison. Therefore, we can rule out weight as a reason for the object not moving. The only other reason an object or person wouldn't move (usually) in a scenario like this is if they are matching the force.

 

[KingTempest]

Y'all ain't understanding lifting strength. Momentarily blocking something has nothing to do with lifting strength scaling. In order for it to be lifting strength, there needs to be a period of prolonged application of force. It's akin to the same reason we don't scale lifting strength from striking strength. The force at which you punch =/= the force you can exert lifting.

^

 

[ZKillerz]

Y'all ain't understanding lifting strength. Momentarily blocking something has nothing to do with lifting strength scaling. In order for it to be lifting strength, there needs to be a period of prolonged application of force. It's akin to the same reason we don't scale lifting strength from striking strength. The force at which you punch =/= the force you can exert lifting.

That makes sense, so he would scale to Akainu's striking strength is what you are saying

 

[KingTempest]

BUT WHEN I SAID IT

That makes sense, so he would scale to Akainu's striking strength is what you are saying

yeah

 

[ZKillerz]

BUT WHEN I SAID IT

You gotta dumb it down for me man

 

[KingTempest]

You gotta dumb it down for me man

If Johnny has 3 apples

 

[DaReaperMan]

You gotta dumb it down for me man

So you admit you're stupid-

Jokes aside, I disagree with this thread

Katakuri and Luffy were relative in speed even though Luffy deadass couldn't touch Luffy for like an hour.

Oh, Luffy couldn't touch Luffy?

 

[Eseseso]

While I disagree with the OP, I do think we should keep Kachon's speed and durability justifications, like how Awakened Lucci's durability is "[...], higher with Buso Haki".

 

[DaMonkeMan]

So you admit you're stupid-

Jokes aside, I disagree with this thread

Oh, Luffy couldn't touch Luffy?

Do you think Lucci could downscale though?

 

[Kachon123]

I win

 

[Eseseso]

I win

1 small thing: For your proposal for Lucci's durability, you should add that his Buso Haki's durability scales to his clash with G5 Buso Luffy (cuz his durability should be = his AP in that clash).

 

[Kachon123]

1 small thing: For your proposal for Lucci's durability, you should add that his Buso Haki's durability scales to his clash with G5 Buso Luffy (cuz his durability should be = his AP in that clash).

The scan shows Gear 5 Buso Luffy so I don't think that's really needed. Clutters things up.

 

[Eseseso]

The scan shows Gear 5 Buso Luffy so I don't think that's really needed. Clutters things up.

That's fair.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, it's hilarious how we're talking about high 6-A when OP is gonna be a measly High 6-B soon.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I win

What

Also, it's hilarious how we're talking about high 6-A when OP is gonna be a measly High 6-B soon.

This isn't the scaling thread.

 

[Eseseso]

What

This isn't the scaling thread.

Just that an argument against the OP is "OP scales to hundreds of times baseline high 6-A"

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't care, I just don't want him to fully scale to G5

 

[Godernet]

I win

Small nitpick that’s not that deep at all: instead of putting suppressed G5 Luffy in justifications just put that he was Casual

Suppressed kinda implies he was putting effort into sealing himself as if it were DBZ. Where as in the context of the fight he was just playing around

Example:

Multi-Continent level with Awakening (Although significantly inferior, he was capable of clashing with a casual Gear 5 Luffy)

it just sounds better imo but you don’t have to tbh.

 

[Kachon123]

What

I win

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't care, I just don't want him to fully scale to G5

Too bad, he does

 

[That_moron2]

Agree with Kachon's proposed justifications. Don't agree with OP.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I win

Win what

Agree with Kachon's proposed justifications. Don't agree with OP.

So would you agree with a downscale?

Too bad, he does

How?

I'll write you down as agreeing with a downscale when I get home then.
I'd word it like this: "Though he was noticeably inferior, he could withstand attacks from casual Gear 5 Luffy and outpace one of his attacks [the bite]."

Also is this a good proposal?

 

[ByAsura]

Can we just changed 2 words or something, like briefly clashed (or even just clashed) with G5 Luffy rather than 'equally matched', or something?

This is getting unnecesary and ******* ridiculous.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I still don't really think the clash is consistent though.
Again, he's kind of on the backhand for most of the fight.
Not really being able to hit Luffy or react to him outside of like one example.
And that's my main problem. I just don't think he should really scale to the clash.

 

[ByAsura]

There's literally never a clash or a position in which they can grapple again, and punching someone doesn't even mean directly overpowering them. It's by definition not an inconsistency because it exists in a vacuum.

Just find some compromise, or something.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I suppose that's true, they don't have much leverage, it's like saying S Hawk knocked back Zoro so he's high into Class T.
Anyway brb, we can continue this sooner or later.

 

[That_moron2]

So would you agree with a downscale?

Yes.

 

[ByAsura]

I really don't see how leverage would play into this.