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One Piece Egghead Revisions: Chapters 1069-1072

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Thanks to @Eminiteable for letting me use his proposed additions to Awakened Lucci's justifications.

So now that 1072's official translations have just come out, there are some revisions that should be made for not just Lucci (since his chapter 1070 feats never got approved by staff), but also Kaku.

1. For his justifications, I would first like to discuss his Base form.

First off, his base is at least comparable to Base Kaku (who will also be discussed), who clashed with Nitoryu Zoro. Lilith even said that they were in the midst of fighting, so their bases were definitely fighting outside of that one clash, meaning that the clash we see is not an outlier.

Even if we say that Nitoryu Zoro isn't as strong as the Santoryu No-Haki Zoro who blocked sword strikes from King and a strike from Hybrid King that sliced Zoan Queen's hide, (even though post-TS there really isn't that much of a power difference between Nitoryu and Santoryu), Nitoryu Zoro should not be that much weaker than his Santoryu, since post-timeskip the gap between the 2 without either using Busoshoku Haki hasn't been shown to be as large as it was pre-timeskip.

Lucci in base should be at minimum comparable to this Base Kaku, although he's likely superior due to nothing saying that their pre-timeskip dynamic has changed, and the fact that Lucci was shown as kind of the leader of the group that went to Egghead (although this doesn't include Stussy since we don't know what the heck her true intensions are).

A good support for High 6-A Base Lucci is how he was kind of implied to be above Guernica, as he was the one giving Guernica orders via Den Den Mushi when the latter was in Wano, and was shown as closer to the Celestial Dragons (considering he was one of their bodyguards during the Reverie). While giving orders doesn't directly mean that one person is stronger than the other, we know that in groups like the WG and CP9, strength and authority are usually correlated.

Nico Robin even said all the masked CP0 agents are among the elite, so they should all probably be on a similar footing to each other.

This would also make Lucci comparable to Maha, who asides from enduring a Kazenbo attack with only moderate injuries, tied with a wounded Izou. A healthy Izou should've been comparable to other WB commanders like Jozu, Vista and Ace (and Izou also fought the Roger pirates when he was younger), and we know that in OP that people are capable of fighting at near max ability even when severely wounded (Look at Zoro using Asura with 20-30 broken bones, an incredibly exhausted Marco [who was exhausted as Izou was when he fought Maha] still capable of blocking attacks from King and Kaido, and a very exhausted Ace who just got free of his seastone cuffs holding his own against Aokiji and Akainu), so while he was definitely nowhere near his peak when he and Maha killed each other, he was definitely not fodder either.


Also, Awakened Lucci, asides from his own feats, should definitely be comparable, if not superior to Awakened Kaku (who I will discuss below).


So, Lucci's AP would look like this:

Tier: High 6-A, higher with Hybrid Form, even higher with Awakening

Attack Potency: Multi-Continent level (Comparable, if not superior to Base Kaku, who matched Nitoryu Base Zoro, who should be comparable to his Santoryu. Should at least be comparable to other masked CP0 agents, such as Guernica and Maha, and was implied to be superior to Guernica, as he was shown giving him orders while the latter was in Wano and was shown to be closer to the Celestial Dragons than Guernica), higher with Hybrid Form (Far stronger than his base), even higher with Awakening (Equally matched Gear 5th Luffy using Busōshoku Haki in a clash, and could counter his attacks. Likely superior to Awakened Kaku), can negate durability with Rokugan (One-shot Atlas, who damaged Base Luffy with a punch)

Speed: FTL (Comparable to Base Kaku, who clashed with Base Zoro and dodged lasers from S-Bear), higher with Hybrid form, even higher with Soru and Kamisori, far higher with Awakening (Dodged and countered attacks from Gear 5th Luffy)

Striking Strength: Multi-Continent level, higher with Hybrid Form, even higher with Awakening

Durability: Multi-Continent level (Should scale to his AP), higher with Hybrid Form, even higher with Awakening (Withstood a Mole Pistol and Dawn Whip from Gear 5th Luffy)


2. Base Kaku, as stated above, matched Nitoryu Base Zoro, who shouldn't much weaker than his no-Haki Santoryu.

As for his Awakened form, his main feat is clashing with Buso Haki Zoro and pushing him back, even forcing Zoro to get serious in order to overpower him. You can even see when Kaku is pushing Zoro back that there are little bursts that show that they clashed repeatedly while Zoro was being pushed back.

Zoro did manage to push him back once he got serious (as shown by the large pumped vein on his face), but Kaku was shown to have not taken any visible damage from the attack before Stussy bit him.

Also, Kaku in chapter 1069 definitely seemed to imply that he and Stussy were capable of damaging the Seraphim (though it's best to assume that he was referring to his Awakened form and not his base), which means they could probably harm the likes of S-Shark, who was barely damaged by an enraged Post-Exoskeleton Sanji's Diable Jambe, and S-Hawk, who emerged unscathed from a clash with Blackbeard.

He should also get the same additional abilities as Lucci:

Haki (Kenbunshoku, Intermediate Busoshoku)
Regeneration (A faster recovery rate is granted to awakened Zoan users, allowing them to recover from injuries more quickly)

His Post-Timeskip write-up would look like this:

Tier: High 6-A, higher with Hybrid Form, even higher with Awakening

Attack Potency: Multi-Continent level (Matched Nitoryu Base Zoro, who shouldn't be much weaker than his Santoryu self. Should be comparable to other masked CP0 agents, such as Guernica and Maha), higher with Hybrid Form (Far stronger than his base form), even higher with Awakening (Far stronger than his Hybrid Form. Clashed with Zoro when both of them were using Busoshoku Haki, even pushing him back and forcing him to exert more energy in order to push him back. Kaku also heavily implied that he and Stussy could harm the Seraphim, which would include the likes of S-Shark, who was relatively unharmed by a kick from an enraged Post-Exoskeleton Diable Jambe Sanji, and S-Hawk, who emerged unharmed from a fight with Blackbeard)

Speed: FTL (Clashed with Base Zoro and dodged S-Bear's lasers), higher with Soru, even higher with Hybrid form, far higher with Awakening

Striking Strength: Multi-Continent level, higher in Hybrid Form, even higher with Awakening

Durability: Multi-Continent level (Should scale to his AP. His leg and foot were unharmed by a clash with Base Zoro), higher with Hybrid Form, even higher with Hybrid Tekkai, far higher with Awakening (Took an attack from a Zoro using Busoshoku Haki and was visibly unharmed)


3. Incredibly minor addition, but Zoro matching and pushing back Awakened Kaku is a feat for him as well, since as I just mentioned, it was definitely implied that Awakened Kaku could harm the Seraphim, so Buso Zoro scales >= Awakened Kaku.

The addition to Post-Mink Buso Zoro's AP entry would just look like this:

(Matched and pushed back Awakened Kaku).


Thoughts?

Once again, thanks to @Eminiteable for letting me use his additional justifications for Lucci's chapter 1070 feats.
 
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Don't show this to Monke or Kachon.

It's interesting seeing all these tiny scaling notes that when separate mean little, eventually combine to form a proper scaling (or at least a decent image of scaling).
 
Don't show this to Monke or Kachon.

It's interesting seeing all these tiny scaling notes that when separate mean little, eventually combine to form a proper scaling (or at least a decent image of scaling).
Well the Guernica stuff is a possibly, but I think it should still be noted.

And all the masked CP0 agents are probably comparable to each other.
 
First off, his base is at least comparable to Base Kaku (who will also be discussed), who clashed with Nitoryu Zoro. Lilith even said that they were in the midst of fighting, so their bases were definitely fighting outside of that one clash, meaning that the clash we see is not an outlier.

Even if we say that Nitoryu Zoro isn't as strong as the Santoryu No-Haki Zoro who blocked sword strikes from King and a strike from Hybrid King that sliced Zoan Queen's hide, (even though post-TS there really isn't that much of a power difference between Nitoryu and Santoryu), Nitoryu Zoro should not be that much weaker than his Santoryu, since post-timeskip the gap between the 2 without either using Busoshoku Haki hasn't been shown to be as large as it was pre-timeskip.
First of all, that clash wasn't nitoryu zoro it was Ittoryu (One Sword). Holding another sword in your off-hand doesn't randomly amp him up.

The issue with using this clash is that it's directly contradicted a few pages before where we see the same base Kaku use his strongest rankyaku technique with that same one-sword zoro effortlessly destroy it. For context, Amane Dachi is the strongest Rankyaku technique scaling above techniques like Hakurai & Rodan which scale above a standard rankyaku which is a rokushiki amp above a base kick; this quite clearly contradicts the clash that portrays them as equals.

Another issue with using that clash is the fact that unlike the Lucci & Luffy clash we don't see the outcome at all, in case you're assuming that doesn't matter I'll give you an example of how using a clash for scaling without seeing the outcome can skew the accuracy of the scaling:
yHpmt5q.png

Here we see what appears to be King & Zoro clashing as equals, but when seeing the outcome we're shown otherwise. Alongside the issue of not seeing the outcome, it's also important to take into account Zoro's history of clashing with opponent's. For example Monet & Hyozou who if we take their clashing out of context would imply they're equals but the outcome of said fights proved otherwise.

The main reason I'm going into these examples of why Zoro clashes should be viewed with some skepticism when the present issues with said clash are present is the fact that the feat prior directly contradicts that scaling.
Lucci in base should be at minimum comparable to this Base Kaku, although he's likely superior due to nothing saying that their pre-timeskip dynamic has changed, and the fact that Lucci was shown as kind of the leader of the group that went to Egghead (although this doesn't include Stussy since we don't know what the heck her true intensions are).
What's the support for comparability? Two years have past that's what changed, notice how no other OP profile tries scaling people based on their dynamics from years ago (Especially in this instance where Kaku who was a clear inferior to Lucci has now gained awakening).

Lucci wasn't portrayed a leader, would appreciate some scans backing that claim up as beyond acting on his own (which he wasn't supposed to do) he was never stated or portrayed to be their leader.
A good support for High 6-A Base Lucci is how he was kind of implied to be above Guernica, as he was the one giving Guernica orders via Den Den Mushi when the latter was in Wano, and was shown as closer to the Celestial Dragons (considering he was one of their bodyguards during the Reverie). While giving orders doesn't directly mean that one person is stronger than the other, we know that in groups like the WG and CP9, strength and authority are usually correlated.
He wasn't, he was giving orders directly from the Gorosei to him. The point about the bodyguard is making a lot of assumptions without any support, The other CP0 members could have been at the Reverie at other places in Mary Geoise but even if they were just performing missions that wouldn't imply superiority.

We actually know the opposite, both in the WG & Cipherpol the leader has never been the strongest.
Nico Robin even said all the masked CP0 agents are among the elite, so they should all probably be on a similar footing to each other.
All this tells us is that the masked CP0 agents are above the non-masked ones which is pretty obvious considering Spandam was a non-masked agent.
A healthy Izou should've been comparable to other WB commanders like Jozu, Vista and Ace
Based on what?
Also, Awakened Lucci, asides from his own feats, should definitely be comparable, if not superior to Awakened Kaku (who I will discuss below).
He already has feats that put him above Kaku, why are you adding a completely unsupported justification.
As for his Awakened form, his main feat is clashing with Buso Haki Zoro and pushing him back, even forcing Zoro to get serious in order to overpower him. You can even see when Kaku is pushing Zoro back that there are little bursts that show that they clashed repeatedly while Zoro was being pushed back.
Except he didn't clash with Zoro whatsoever, I already explained this to you on the chapter thread but I guess I'll have to do it again.

Zoro was blocking Kaku's initial bigan strike and continued blocking in the same position from Kaku's continuous blows from Kilimangyro, he was pushed back because Zoro was struck while he was suspended in the air & I hope I don't need to explain to you why Zoro would obviously be pushed back in that situation regardless of stats.

Those little bursts are impact strikes from Kaku attacking, we see Zoro attack back once and it's when Kaku was overpowered into the ground.
Zoro did manage to push him back once he got serious (as shown by the large pumped vein on his face), but Kaku was shown to have not taken any visible damage from the attack before Stussy bit him.
We see him overpower him the first time he retaliates, never mind getting serious. Regarding Kaku taking damage; we do see small black spots from when Zoro struck him down, now whether or not that's rubble or simply apart of the impact strike is something that will only ever get truly clarified when the digitial colored scans come out for this volume.

However, I recognize that will be a while and I'm not arguing that we shouldn't scale Kaku's durability to the strike only that claiming no damage most likely isn't accurate. I'm aware that the panel of Kaku afterwards shows no visible damage but the same applied to Lucci when he was struck by Luffy twice yet was clearly damaged (he simply recovered in both cases due to being awakened similar to Kaku).
Also, Kaku in chapter 1069 definitely seemed to imply that he and Stussy were capable of damaging the Seraphim (though it's best to assume that he was referring to his Awakened form and not his base), which means they could probably harm the likes of S-Shark, who was barely damaged by an enraged Post-Exoskeleton Sanji's Diable Jambe, and S-Hawk, who emerged unscathed from a clash with Blackbeard.
Unsupported and most likely Kaku being ignorant. The fact an Emperor failed to damage them should already tell you that.
 
Unsupported and most likely Kaku being ignorant. The fact an Emperor failed to damage them should already tell you that.
That was Blackbeard's Yami Yami no Mi plunging SeraHawk into darkness, not him directly.
Though it did fail to hurt the Seraph.
 
For the record, I do disagree with many of Emin's points, I'm just waiting for further input.
 
First of all, that clash wasn't nitoryu zoro it was Ittoryu (One Sword). Holding another sword in your off-hand doesn't randomly amp him up.

The issue with using this clash is that it's directly contradicted a few pages before where we see the same base Kaku use his strongest rankyaku technique with that same one-sword zoro effortlessly destroy it. For context, Amane Dachi is the strongest Rankyaku technique scaling above techniques like Hakurai & Rodan which scale above a standard rankyaku which is a rokushiki amp above a base kick; this quite clearly contradicts the clash that portrays them as equals.

Another issue with using that clash is the fact that unlike the Lucci & Luffy clash we don't see the outcome at all, in case you're assuming that doesn't matter I'll give you an example of how using a clash for scaling without seeing the outcome can skew the accuracy of the scaling:
yHpmt5q.png

Here we see what appears to be King & Zoro clashing as equals, but when seeing the outcome we're shown otherwise. Alongside the issue of not seeing the outcome, it's also important to take into account Zoro's history of clashing with opponent's. For example Monet & Hyozou who if we take their clashing out of context would imply they're equals but the outcome of said fights proved otherwise.
1. Amane Dachi is only Kaku's best attack when in Hybrid, and he didn't use multiple legs and such for it like he did when he aimed it at the Sunny. Not to mention, he was aiming the attack at the Sunny, not Zoro himself.

1.5. Rokushiki doesn't seem to be vastly above their bases anymore, kind of like how Luffy's Gears 2 and 3 aren't that much higher than his base post-Kaido fight.

2. Lilith openly said that they were clashing, meaning that their fight had consisted of much more than just that clash. The fact that Kaku wasn't knocked out before he could go Awakened Zoan shows that he was holding his own. It also means that Kaku had been fighting Nitoryu Zoro during the off-screen part of their fight when they were both in base, going by Lilith's statement.

3. Why are you comparing one clash between Zoro and King to Lilith flat-out saying that Zoro and Kaku were in the midst of an ongoing fight?
The main reason I'm going into these examples of why Zoro clashes should be viewed with some skepticism when the present issues with said clash are present is the fact that the feat prior directly contradicts that scaling.
See above
What's the support for comparability? Two years have past that's what changed, notice how no other OP profile tries scaling people based on their dynamics from years ago (Especially in this instance where Kaku who was a clear inferior to Lucci has now gained awakening).
This isn't a Yamato situation where her and Kaido's hybrids somewhat matched each other despite Kaido having his longer.
Lucci wasn't portrayed a leader, would appreciate some scans backing that claim up as beyond acting on his own (which he wasn't supposed to do) he was never stated or portrayed to be their leader.
He was shown leading Kaku and Stussy and telling them what to do once they got to Egghead, IIRC.
All this tells us is that the masked CP0 agents are above the non-masked ones which is pretty obvious considering Spandam was a non-masked agent.
Nothing contradicts the masked ones being comparable to each other.
Based on what?
That's literally what we do for the justifications of Ace, Vista and Jozu.
He already has feats that put him above Kaku, why are you adding a completely unsupported justification.
They were portrayed as comparable at the absolute minimum.
Except he didn't clash with Zoro whatsoever, I already explained this to you on the chapter thread but I guess I'll have to do it again.

Zoro was blocking Kaku's initial bigan strike and continued blocking in the same position from Kaku's continuous blows from Kilimangyro, he was pushed back because Zoro was struck while he was suspended in the air & I hope I don't need to explain to you why Zoro would obviously be pushed back in that situation regardless of stats.

Those little bursts are impact strikes from Kaku attacking, we see Zoro attack back once and it's when Kaku was overpowered into the ground.

We see him overpower him the first time he retaliates, never mind getting serious. Regarding Kaku taking damage; we do see small black spots from when Zoro struck him down, now whether or not that's rubble or simply apart of the impact strike is something that will only ever get truly clarified when the digitial colored scans come out for this volume.

However, I recognize that will be a while and I'm not arguing that we shouldn't scale Kaku's durability to the strike only that claiming no damage most likely isn't accurate. I'm aware that the panel of Kaku afterwards shows no visible damage but the same applied to Lucci when he was struck by Luffy twice yet was clearly damaged (he simply recovered in both cases due to being awakened similar to Kaku).
Either way, his durability with no Buso or Tekkai is comparable to Buso Zoro's AP to at least some extent.
Unsupported and most likely Kaku being ignorant. The fact an Emperor failed to damage them should already tell you that.
Kaku being supposedly dumb is plain headcanon. He has spent time with a Seraphim (S-Bear), so he should have some idea of their capabilities compared to his own.


But now I want to wait for further input (such as King and Mitch) so this isn't just a back and forth between the 2 of us.
 
This isn't a Yamato situation where her and Kaido's hybrids somewhat matched each other despite Kaido having his longer.
I'm pretty sure awakening your fruit when you've had it considerably shorter than your teammate means you're skilled with your fruit and competent.
They were portrayed as comparable at the absolute minimum.

Either way, his durability with no Buso or Tekkai is comparable to Buso Zoro's AP to at least some extent.
His durability doesn't scale to squat, Zoro effortlessly slammed him with the blunt sides of his swords.
Kaku being supposedly dumb is plain headcanon. He has spent time with a Seraphim (S-Bear), so he should have some idea of their capabilities compared to his own.


But now I want to wait for further input (such as King and Mitch) so this isn't just a back and forth between the 2 of us.
But Kaku isn't smart either, dude blatantly ignored Stussy and jumped into the lasers protecting the upper dome.
 
1. Amane Dachi is only Kaku's best attack when in Hybrid, and he didn't use multiple legs and such for it like he did when he aimed it at the Sunny. Not to mention, he was aiming the attack at the Sunny, not Zoro himself.

1.5. Rokushiki doesn't seem to be vastly above their bases anymore, kind of like how Luffy's Gears 2 and 3 aren't that much higher than his base post-Kaido fight.

2. Lilith openly said that they were clashing, meaning that their fight had consisted of much more than just that clash. The fact that Kaku wasn't knocked out before he could go Awakened Zoan shows that he was holding his own. It also means that Kaku had been fighting Nitoryu Zoro during the off-screen part of their fight when they were both in base, going by Lilith's statement.

3. Why are you comparing one clash between Zoro and King to Lilith flat-out saying that Zoro and Kaku were in the midst of an ongoing fight?
1. Not at all, Amane dachi comes from Kaku spinning his whole body which is true even for his base form; although the amp wouldn't be as great as it would in hybrid form the attack is still using his whole body spinning.
  1. You're claiming he didn't use both legs which is just a blatant lie considering the panel is so small that you cannot claim that, we do see his whole body spin around like all other usages of amane dachi & we have no reason to assume he wouldn't use the attack as it's meant to be performed; if he wasn't performing the attack properly it wouldn't be called amane dachi.
  2. Why does him aiming for the Sunny matter? Can you prove he held back despite using his strongest Rankyaku technique. I'm pretty sure you can't though.
1.5 What's this claim based on? Also your argument on Gear 2nd & 3rd is untrue going off the profiles.

2. She never said this, all they said is that the guards of the ship were engaged in combat & none of this covers my issues with said clash. Not covering the rest of this because my initial arguments in my post already covers this.

3. Regarding the Lilith comment, all that was said is that they are engaged in combat; this isn't support for comparability at all. I'm bringing up the king clash to illustrate to you why a clash doesn't always mean the two clashing were equals especially in this case where we can't see the outcome to determine the truth. My points were to illustrate to you the issue with Zoro clashes, especially when we know he's holding back; in the kaku fight from pre-timeskip Zoro already alludes to the fact that he doesn't wear his bandana unless he's decided to fight seriously. And from the initial encounter in the fight we can determine that the clash isn't likely an equal exchange or Zoro going all out considering what happened to the amane dachi.
See above
I did, you failed to counter these points at all.
This isn't a Yamato situation where her and Kaido's hybrids somewhat matched each other despite Kaido having his longer.
Who brought up Yamato? I'm talking about their comparability being based on a power level reading from two years ago, we don't scale based on how characters were compared years ago. We don't scale Mihawk & Shanks together based purely off their fights 12 years ago, we don't scale Luffy and Zoro as equals based off their statements from two years ago.
He was shown leading Kaku and Stussy and telling them what to do once they got to Egghead, IIRC.
I asked for scans of this.
Nothing contradicts the masked ones being comparable to each other.
Nothing suggests it either, that's like saying all the calamities are comparable because they share a role. It's just a baseless claim.
That's literally what we do for the justifications of Ace, Vista and Jozu.
They're portrayed to be the top tiers of the WB commanders considering their feats and showings in the war, not all 16 WB commander's are comparable. Even if we removed that justification all four of them based off their feats & statements would roughly still scale around the same tier.
They were portrayed as comparable at the absolute minimum.
It's a very weak justification based off fan interpretation & ultimately useless for the profile.
Either way, his durability with no Buso or Tekkai is comparable to Buso Zoro's AP to at least some extent.
I have no issue with that.
Kaku being supposedly dumb is plain headcanon. He has spent time with a Seraphim (S-Bear), so he should have some idea of their capabilities compared to his own.
Because there's nothing supporting him knowing he could damage one, he may have spent time with them but how could he have known he could damage them? They've never fought each other beforehand. Again, the fact an emperor failed to do any damage whatsoever should give you an indicator that he is just misinformed.
 
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Not sure what the last part of your message meant but you do have a good point about Luffy not being serious.

Yeah but he's at least former staff.
yeah, what i mean is Lucci losing his consciousness after got attacked by Luffy, and it seems Luffy just duraneg Lucci, and lucci stated Luffy's power is insane.
one-piece-1070-12.jpg

one-piece-1070-13.jpg


And yes, Lucci's updated profile should be removed.
 
yeah, what i mean is Lucci losing his consciousness after got attacked by Luffy, and it seems Luffy just duraneg Lucci, and lucci stated Luffy's power is insane.
one-piece-1070-12.jpg

one-piece-1070-13.jpg


And yes, Lucci's updated profile should be removed.
Not dura neg he just punched him and stretched his stomach out.
 
was this concluded?
We've all agreed to put all further Egghead upgrades on hold until the arc ends.

Mitch agreed to it when I asked him, Antvasima agreed to it, and IIRC Damage agreed to it.

I have made a sandbox for this arc just to keep track of feats in this arc.
 
We've all agreed to put all further Egghead upgrades on hold until the arc ends.

Mitch agreed to it when I asked him, Antvasima agreed to it, and IIRC Damage agreed to it.

I have made a sandbox for this arc just to keep track of feats in this arc.
Can we see the sandbox
 
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