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Nah… need to actually know wtf is happening in the manga or read peoples scans before commenting, Remember… sanji and p 1
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Lucci CRT 3: The Payback War
- Thread starter DaMonkeMan
- Start date
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #122
Luffy holding back is evident considering he doesn't use things like:
His giant form
Bajrang Gun
Advanced Haki
etc.
The entire time he was goofing around and even acted like he was sleep while he was dodging Lucci's attacks.
Sure, Luffy contorting his body is troublesome, but we've seen a lot of people deal with that rather easily. It's no different than what Katakuri does, just be fast enough to actually hit him or trap him.
Also the lip busting metaphor isn't a great one... You know how we scale Jozu to Kuzan? He has a full scale from that attack.
And doesn't Lucci have Observation Haki?
Unless he has the most dog shit, Queen level Observation, I don't see how he couldn't have reacted other than him just getting blitzed.
I do see your points, Deceived, and I'm honestly just arguing for a downscale, but you gotta admit Lucci WAS damaged by some of the attacks.
And him being off guard doesn't lower his durability, btw.
I'd say only Mole and what ever the last attack was named really did him in, though the last one knocking him out is a pretty heavy anti-feat.
Also, do we have any indicators Luffy used FS on Lucci?
His giant form
Bajrang Gun
Advanced Haki
etc.
The entire time he was goofing around and even acted like he was sleep while he was dodging Lucci's attacks.
Sure, Luffy contorting his body is troublesome, but we've seen a lot of people deal with that rather easily. It's no different than what Katakuri does, just be fast enough to actually hit him or trap him.
Also the lip busting metaphor isn't a great one... You know how we scale Jozu to Kuzan? He has a full scale from that attack.
And doesn't Lucci have Observation Haki?
Unless he has the most dog shit, Queen level Observation, I don't see how he couldn't have reacted other than him just getting blitzed.
I do see your points, Deceived, and I'm honestly just arguing for a downscale, but you gotta admit Lucci WAS damaged by some of the attacks.
And him being off guard doesn't lower his durability, btw.
I'd say only Mole and what ever the last attack was named really did him in, though the last one knocking him out is a pretty heavy anti-feat.
Also, do we have any indicators Luffy used FS on Lucci?
Why are you even here then? Kick rocksNah… need to actually know wtf is happening in the manga or read peoples scans before commenting, Remember… sanji and p 1
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None of this proves that Luffy was holding back his baseline, physical AP that Gear 5 grants him, saying that because he didn't use these amps to increase this baseline AP it means his baseline AP was also held back doesn't make sense logically.
That's just literally how Gear 5 Luffy acts, he giggles and acts like a cartoon character, that isn't evidence of him holding back.
Lucci wasn't fast enough to actually do such a thing, however, that wouldn't mean he doesn't scale relative with Luffy since we do see him clashing with him and perceiving his movements multiple times in the fight.
It was because it directly addresses why Lucci being damaged wouldn't mean he doesn't scale to the attack.
I don't know.
I believe everyone agrees with downscaling Lucci from Luffy, the problem is the arguments you presented in the OP aren't the greatest and aren't formulated well, so it causes people to disagree on opinions, which if formulated correctly, they wouldn't normally disagree with.
He was, no one disagrees with that.
Being off-guard means you weren't expecting an attack, if you weren't expecting that attack then how could you be defending yourself against it?
People have baseline durability, sure, but people can amplify that baseline durability through bracing themselves.
To use another boxing example because I myself box, when boxing, bracing yourself allows you to decrease the amount of energy transferred from an attack, if you flex your abs it allows you to tank shots which normally, if you weren't flexing, would drop you because you're decreasing the amount of energy being transferred into that one specific portion of your body through dispersing it throughout your entire body with your muscles.
This exactly happened to Lucci.
How exactly would that be an anti-feat?
I'll let KT answer that because I'm under the impression he was actively using his FS against him.
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@TheMonkeMan Well with the meme you sent it made it seem like you made all 3, apologies for the misunderstanding
But either way… It’s fiction. Chill the **** out
But either way… It’s fiction. Chill the **** out
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- Thread starter
- #126
Yeah mb I worded the gif wrong lol I suppose that was on me.
Do you at least agree with a downscale?
Cause that's the point of this thread.
Though I really don't think the LS should scale but I'll talk about it when I have time.
I can't really answer this one rn but I'm gonna ask you this:
Do you at least agree with a downscale?
Cause that's the point of this thread.
Though I really don't think the LS should scale but I'll talk about it when I have time.
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I currently agree with a downscale, but I'll wait and see what KT's opinions are when he responds to your post before ultimately agreeing or disagreeing with the OP.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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Ah alright then. Should I write you down as agreeing solely with a downscale, but waiting for a counter argument?
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Sure, I don't agree with removing Class P LS however.
So put me on disagreeing with that as well.
So put me on disagreeing with that as well.
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Yes the **** I can, because it's not just the crts, it's you mentioning them in every single thread
Imma ignore everything else because you didn't even tackle my argument.
He never said that. Now you're just pulling
"G4 with no Haki" G4 is a Haki transformation. G4th is Yonko level. You don't like G4th being up there, then mald
No, because you're on headass timing
Luffy consistently dodged
Reaction is based on eyesight, not physical speed. What the hell are you talking about
Where is Shishi Sonson in a picture I sent
Doesn't prove shit
Because Kaidou then was faster than Luffy.
This isn't "we're relative but you can't hit me because I have future sight", you're mentioning unequal matchups
Ok. Proved nothing
Recovery ≠ regen
I'm talking about the lack of damage
I don't see my points being debunked.
Crocodile never stopped his strike. Stop using this in every thread
Jinbe scales to a weakened Linlin and he doesn't scale to Akainu because he never did that either
Why would Luffy scale to somebody who blocked him for trying to push her back and failing
You clearly don't know what a blitz is when you send every panel of Lucci getting scratched as a blitz
And he didn't get knocked out extremely quick. He didn't even get knocked out.
Lucci lost to a superior move.
This is like saying Lucci shouldn't scale to Enies Lobby base Luffy cause G3rd almost put him down.
...where'd he get one shot?
Mald
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You're hilariously dishonest.
He got "knocked out" by Luffy's slingshot move, which isn't shit to the casual regular ass punches Luffy hit Kaidou and him with
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #133
Alright. I'll add it to the top and respond to KT's stuff when I get home.
This CRT isn't over though, my counter argument will come in a hour or two.
I'll say this though, Luffy was using Advanced Haki ( which he never used on Lucci ) and multiple punches against Kaidou there, and he was relatively fine afterwards.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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Do you know what this means?
Then he doesn't scale to
A. His giant form
B. Bajrang gun
C. Advanced Hao.
Like what is so hard to understand
You're trying to basically say that since Luffy didn't use all of those, he can't scale to the base level of his G5th
Because Sanji didn't use something like Hell Memories on Doflamingo, Doffy can't scale to his base
Because Law didn't use his awakening on Kaidou, he held back on Kaidou, so Kaidou can't scale to him
Because Big Mom didn't eat her soul and grow on Kaidou, she held back on Kaidou, so Kaidou can't scale to her
Because Whitebeard didn't use a hao and gura infused strike on Oden, he held back on Oden, so Oden can't scale to him
Because Kaidou didn't go Hybrid on Oden, he held back on Oden, so Oden can't scale to him
This is like saying Luffy's base form in Enies Lobby was being held back because he didn't use G2nd on Lucci until later, so the base form he fought was inferior cause he didn't use his higher moves.
Nobody is scaling him to Hao Luffy.
Nobody is scaling him to Bajrang Gun.
Nobody is scaling him to his Hao Infusion.
We're scaling him to the form he fought against.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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All I'm saying is he's not Yonko level or fully scaling to the version of G5 he fought.
And I used him as a comparison because we use Luffy vs Kaidou as a basis for his G5 scaling, which is in turn what we use for Lucci's scaling.
But the Luffy that fought Kaidou /=/ the Luffy that fought Lucci, is what I'm saying, as he tried significantly harder against Kaidou.
Anyway, you still don't agree with a downscale right?
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Oh my god
See this is your problem
You don't even care about the feats Lucci uses to scale
You just care who he's scaling to
Lucci would be fine scaling to him as long as Luffy wasn't scaling to Kaidou and the other god tiers huh
Lucci scales to Luffy. It doesn't matter who or what Luffy scales to, Lucci scales to Luffy
Lucci doesn't scale to him with Hao, which he used against Kaidou.
Lucci doesn't scale to him with Bajrang gun, which he used against Kaidou.
Luffy doesn't scale to him with Giganto, which he used against Kaidou.
He scales to regular G5th, who scales to that value
Idc if he scales to Kaidou or not, he scales.
Nobody said "he scales to Kaidou", we said "he scales to Luffy."
Don't crop off scaling because of who the other person scales to.
If I punch and break a rock, I don't care if Zeus himself struck that rock and it didn't break, I scale to the rock. Simple
I don't and never will.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #138
This is incomprehensible dog shit of an argument but I can't debunk it rn so just wait.
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You're saying "he doesn't scale to the Luffy who fought Kaidou"
He scales to Luffy
Who scales to High 6-A
So he scales to High 6-A
You failing to comprehend why that's how we do things and calling it "incomprehensible dog shit of an argument" is hilariously upsetting
I don't give a **** how Luffy scales to High 6-A. Idc if it's King, Kaidou, even Whitebeard.
He scales.
And Lucci scales through that
He scales to Luffy
Who scales to High 6-A
So he scales to High 6-A
You failing to comprehend why that's how we do things and calling it "incomprehensible dog shit of an argument" is hilariously upsetting
I don't give a **** how Luffy scales to High 6-A. Idc if it's King, Kaidou, even Whitebeard.
He scales.
And Lucci scales through that
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #140
I never said he isn't H6A wtf does a downscale mean to you my ninja he'll still scale somewhat in durability which scales to his AP which means he's H6A
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DaMonkeMan
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Considering how much we called eachother the soft N offsite I doubt he has a problem with it
Ped2018
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You're not offsite.
You're onsite.
Where you can't call each other the N-word.
It's against the rules.
Goober.
DaMonkeMan
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Mfw I get reported on vsbattles for saying a common slang term us black people use
Godernet
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Ok so it’s pretty much been established that no one has been trying to scale Lucci to the Yonko or G5 Luffy's stronger attacks, just downscaling off of G5 Luffys regular punches with buso. Which tbf is something we already do the profiles they just don’t do a good job explaining that.
AP
we should all know by now that no amount of holding back or casualness would change Lucci’s H6A since OP god tiers are literally hundreds of times into H6A rn.
Speed
As far as speed, regardless of whether Luffy was or wasn’t using FS against Lucci. He matched Luffy twice which would still show some level of low end relativity to a casual G5. We already use this same logic in Post Udon Luffy's key where we have him FTL but highlight he’s inferior and could barely dodge Kaido’s Thunder Bagua at the time.
LS
as for LS, I actually use to be on team Anti Class P Lucci LS but then I realized something. G5 Luffy doesn’t struggle to lift Bajrang Gun, like at all(at least from what we could tell). Class P lifting might just be a casual thing for this Luffy as scary as that sounds. Now this would be different if Luffy had to summon all his strength to barely lift a fist that was barely in Class P. But that’s not the case here.
Worse I could ever see is at least Class T, likely Class P but KT and Deceived arguments are just more convincing rn.
Justifications
I will also say I agree with the idea of changing the justifications to better reflect how casual the encounter was but in a way that doesn’t disingenuously downplay Lucci’s feats.
Kachon’s versions don’t look bad.
AP
we should all know by now that no amount of holding back or casualness would change Lucci’s H6A since OP god tiers are literally hundreds of times into H6A rn.
Speed
As far as speed, regardless of whether Luffy was or wasn’t using FS against Lucci. He matched Luffy twice which would still show some level of low end relativity to a casual G5. We already use this same logic in Post Udon Luffy's key where we have him FTL but highlight he’s inferior and could barely dodge Kaido’s Thunder Bagua at the time.
LS
as for LS, I actually use to be on team Anti Class P Lucci LS but then I realized something. G5 Luffy doesn’t struggle to lift Bajrang Gun, like at all(at least from what we could tell). Class P lifting might just be a casual thing for this Luffy as scary as that sounds. Now this would be different if Luffy had to summon all his strength to barely lift a fist that was barely in Class P. But that’s not the case here.
Worse I could ever see is at least Class T, likely Class P but KT and Deceived arguments are just more convincing rn.
Justifications
I will also say I agree with the idea of changing the justifications to better reflect how casual the encounter was but in a way that doesn’t disingenuously downplay Lucci’s feats.
Kachon’s versions don’t look bad.
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Ant "MLK" Vasima doesn't like it when people say it on the site, regardless of race. It's also against the rules so just don't do it, replace with euphemisms if you have to.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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****, keep the Class P then, if y'all really think it's fine.
I'm more focused on the downscaling though. I'll write you down as agreeing with the downscaling when I come home, is that alright Godernet?
I'm more focused on the downscaling though. I'll write you down as agreeing with the downscaling when I come home, is that alright Godernet?
Godernet
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If by downscaling you mean tweaking the justifications then yeah that’s cool.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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There's an example of an Admin that I could talk about, but I don't wanna open up that can of worms. You can probably imagine what it is though.
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i already did
DaMonkeMan
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Has anyone mentioned the fact that G5 Luffy gets passively amped by laughing? G5 consistently gets stronger by laughing and he's essentially stuck in a perpetual cycle of laughter in G5 so I don't see how Luffy being able to rock Luffy with Empowerment and durability negation means anything against his AP or durability.
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partially, i agree lucci is not equal to luffy but a top tier nonetheless
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #157
Well I don’t think he's a top tier but it doesn't matter, just whether you think he should downscale or not scale at all.
True, however it's weird as we see him use Buso ( one shot amp ) and a kick and it does nothing, but he later does a simple punch and Lucci is knocked out.
Either the fight is just very inconsistent throughout, or the amp Luffy gets from G5 is even better than his armament enhanced kicks
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See I always attributed that to G5's durability negation. Remember his normal strikes allow G5 Luffy to rubberize people, allowing him to bypass the durability of whatever he hits. (Also effecting organs in the process.)
Keep in mind they also effected Kaidou who's durability, endurance and regeneration put Lucci's to shame so it makes sense why G5 durability negation rocked Lucci.
Personally speaking I think Lucci doesn't fully scale to Luffy, but at least he should down scale. Luffy would be the victor but Lucci can put up somewhat of a fight before things like Empowerment come into play. I'd word it something like this myself (With Awakening he could momentarily hold his own against a non Empowered Gear Fifth Luffy.)
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 16,049
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- #159
I'll write you down as agreeing with a downscale when I get home then.
I'd word it like this: "Though he was noticeably inferior, he could withstand attacks from casual Gear 5 Luffy and outpace one of his attacks [the bite]."
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Agree fra, always thought lucci scaling to gear 5th made no sense
