Low 2-C Battle of Gods, but I have a good argument :3

[Nullflowerblush]

The macrocosm globe was simply made so that readers could easily grasp it.

Actually, the model is also replicated in the Super anime itself.

But, and I did not even notice this until now, the Living Realm is contained within its own... bowl(?) on the lower half of the globe, which just so happens to be completely sealed off from the upper half of the globe, which contains the Other World.

Can you at least provide the respective scans and sources regarding this?

I have a whole OP with scans.

Spoiler: Other World is a higher, spiritual world

The [Dragon Ball] world holds a peculiar worldview: the macrocosm is divided up into four areas, the afterlife that watches over the macrocosm, and the Kaioshin Realm that goes around the perimeter of the afterlife and macrocosm. We'll introduce you to the eye-opening numerous worlds.

The Cosmos: A supernatural realm presided over by the [gods.]

Far above the heavens and unknown to humans, exists this extra-dimensional world of divinity, from which gods look down on the whole of the mortal realm.

A spiritual world where souls that have lost their physical bodies exist.

The World Beyond, a location also called the Heavenly Realm, can generally only be entered by dead people, and Kami.

He can come and go between the planets of the lower world.

An art whose use is limited to only a very few among the people of the Heavenly Realm. Using this art, they constantly observe the situation in the lower realm.

Spoiler: The Living World is airtight and isolated from the other realms

In Dragon Ball's world-view, there is the airtight universe, and there is the Demon Realm that takes the appearance of the reverse side of that.

In the world of Dragon Ball, the universe is located beneath the World Beyond, and it is hermetically sealed by a barrier that is engraved with a strange design.

I just now noticed that I've been flip-flopping my terminologies throughout this thread.
Just for clarification:

• "Living World" = The entire lower half of the globe
• "Outer Space" = The universe where Goku and friends live

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The macrocosm globe was simply made so that readers could easily grasp it. It would be fallacious to say "it looks like its in the same space therefore it is", when we know by looking at other parts of this macrocosm that it is visually innaccurate (such as king kai's planet being visible on it, even though we know that it shouldn't due to it being vastly smaller than a normal planet, and its shown comparable to heaven which is as wide as the universe, the living world, and the kaioshin realm which is 1/10th of the entire macrocosm. Another example of it being visually inaccurate is that snake way appears to be half the length of the entire macrocosm, which is 1,000,000 km, which again should not be visually possible seeing as again its visible/comparable in the face of the macrocosm that contains things that are unfathomably bigger than 1 million km)
Secondly them saying outer space being above it/demon realm under it would only be referring to this macrocosm globe, which again is visually inaccurate.

At the same time, couldn’t it been argued that there is nothing proving them not being disconnected though? Even I have to admit the Macrocosm Globe isn’t entirely visual inaccurate.

There is no statements about them being separate from one another as far as I am aware so for the sake of fairness, I don’t think it is a solid conclusion they are truly separated anyway.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Actually, the model is also replicated in the Super anime itself.

That can still be considered visually inaccurate, unless we are willing to consider the idea of things like snake way and king kais world being at all comparable to the universe despite it having countless galaxies

 

[sanicspood]

Actually, the model is also replicated in the Super anime itself.

im pretty sure this was an image in dbz kai the final chapters, correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Nullflowerblush]

despite it having countless galaxies

"Countless" on its own means nothing.

unless we are willing to consider the idea of things like snake way and king kais world being at all comparable to the universe

We have literally zero idea what is going on in the Living World, considering we cannot see what is inside the barrier that surrounds it.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

At the same time, couldn’t it been argued that there is nothing proving them not being disconnected though? Even I have to admit the Macrocosm Globe isn’t entirely visual inaccurate.

I did show statements of them being disconnected, or atleast i mentioned it. It was stated to be a separate dimension, and obviously in this context meaning a parallel dimension (also known as an alternate reality or parallel universe), meaning separate space-time.

Also I can't think of much in the macrocosm representations that is visibly accurate, feel free to correct me on that though.

There is no statements about them being separate from one another as far as I am aware so for the sake of fairness, I don’t think it is a solid conclusion they are truly separated anyway.

I did show a statement of that. I'm just wondering if its an accepted statement or not

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I did show statements of them being disconnected, or atleast i mentioned it. It was stated to be a separate dimension, and obviously in this context meaning a parallel dimension (also known as an alternate reality or parallel universe), meaning separate space-time.

Also I can't think of much in the macrocosm , feel free to correct me on that though.

I did show a statement of that. I'm just wondering if its an accepted statement or not

No, you were referring to the demon realm and outer space.


Specifically the scan I shown in regards to the living world specifically.


“The Kaiōshin Realm is, simply put, the Realm of the Kaiōshin. It is a special realm completely separate from the macrocosm that the afterlife, universe, and Demon Realm are all enclosed within.” For the description of Kaioshin Realm

Also it was clearly stated the living world is split into two dimensions which is Outer Space and the Demon Realm.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

"Countless" on its own means nothing.

We have literally zero idea what is going on in the Living World, considering we cannot see what is inside the barrier that surrounds it.

By countless i meant tons, or many. Either way from the image i sent you can clearly see dozens of galaxies, and one galaxy should be more than 1 million KM.

We have literally zero idea what is going on in the Living World, considering we cannot see what is inside the barrier that surrounds it.

What we do know is the entirety of the mortal universe is contained within it, and that somehow things that shouldn't be anywhere the size of that barrier are clearly visible.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

No, you were referring to the demon realm and outer space.


Specifically the scan I shown in regards to the living world specifically.


“The Kaiōshin Realm is, simply put, the Realm of the Kaiōshin. It is a special realm completely separate from the macrocosm that the afterlife, universe, and Demon Realm are all enclosed within.” For the description of Kaioshin Realm

Also it was clearly stated the living world is split into two dimensions which is Outer Space and the Demon Realm.

Yes i was referring to the demon realm and outer space being in separate dimensions, that was my entire argument. And the scan of the living world (presumably this one) was what i was using to argue for it.

I wasn't talking about the kaioshin realm lmao, i think we both misinterpreted what we were trying to get at?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Actually, the model is also replicated in the Super anime itself.

But, and I did not even notice this until now, the Living Realm is contained within its own... bowl(?) on the lower half of the globe, which just so happens to be completely sealed off from the upper half of the globe, which contains the Other World.

I have a whole OP with scans.
I just now noticed that I've been flip-flopping my terminologies throughout this thread.
Just for clarification:

• "Living World" = The entire lower half of the globe
• "Outer Space" = The universe where Goku and friends live

Alright, although I not sure about extra dimensional part since Other World as far as I was aware isn’t always treated as some extra dimensional world.

Which by itself make it questionable… Heck I not sure if it gonna get enough support for that matter since I will think it usually been 4D if anything unless further proven to having beyond 5D or something.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yes i was referring to the demon realm and outer space being in separate dimensions, that was my entire argument. And the scan of the living world (presumably this one) was what i was using to argue for it.

I wasn't talking about the kaioshin realm lmao, i think we both misinterpreted what we were trying to get at?

Yeah, but I mentioned it since it talks about how the living world and other parts of Macrocosm share the same space.

Also again, this completely ignores the mentions of upper and lower parts of the living world.

Why would the scan I use that came from this link: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/ Repeatingly mentioned the lower and upper parts of the living realm.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Heck I not sure if it gonna get enough support for that matter since I will think it usually been 4D if anything unless further proven to having beyond 5D or something.

The only reason the "extra-dimensional" and "higher realm" jargon was brought up was to emphasize the point that the Other World does not operate under the same space-time continuum as the Living World—that claim is absolutely silly.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Yeah, but I mentioned it since it talks about how the living world and other parts of Macrocosm share the same space.

Not all parts do, and they contradict the idea of sharing the same space later within that page so it wouldn't matter.

Also again, this completely ignores the mentions of upper and lower parts of the living world.

Why would the scan I use that came from this link: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/gods-and-cosmos/universe/ Repeatingly mentioned the lower and upper parts of the living realm.

When they say that, they are referring to the macrocosm globe (that i already gave my reasoning for a to why it would be visually inaccurate) which depicts the demon realm under and things like outerspace and otherworld. I also find that contradictory with the fact that, again the demon realm was stated 3 times to be a different dimension.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The forum is acting funny.

@Nullflowerblush

Alrighty although I not sure about Other World being not part of the same space time continuum since while it doesn’t seem operating under the same conditions like the rest of the universe, I will think it will still been a part of the macrocosm overall.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Not all parts do, and they contradict the idea of sharing the same space later within that page so it wouldn't matter.




When they say that, they are referring to the macrocosm globe (that i already gave my reasoning for a to why it would be visually inaccurate) which depicts the demon realm under and things like outerspace and otherworld. I also find that contradictory with the fact that, again the demon realm was stated 3 times to be a different dimension.

A different dimension yet is legitimately stated to being part of the living world overall also I don’t think it is being referenced solely to “macrocosm globe” and they also completely mentioned both demon and outer space as being the edge to one another.

“The Demon Realm is the lower half of the living world, a dimension that exists on the reverse side of outer space.”

Dragon Ball Gods & Cosmos Guide | The Universe - Kanzenshuu

www.kanzenshuu.com

It is like on the very bottom of the page.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I will think it will still been a part of the macrocosm overall

Oh yeah, it's definitely a part of the macrocosm.
The battle occurred in the Outer Space though, so the goal is to prove that the realms surrounding it are alternate spatiotemporal dimensions.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

A different dimension yet is legitimately stated to being part of the living world overall also I don’t think it is being referenced solely to “macrocosm globe” and they also completely mentioned both demon and outer space as being the edge to one another.

“The Demon Realm is the lower half of the living world, a dimension that exists on the reverse side of outer space.”

Dragon Ball Gods & Cosmos Guide | The Universe - Kanzenshuu

www.kanzenshuu.com

It is like on the very bottom of the page.

Its considered to be part of the living world sure, a living world which contains different space times within it...

Also the demon realm portion just helps my argument further as it again refers to it as a dimension. Sure they can place/refer to this dimension on this visually inaccurate map as below it, because it still is just that.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Its considered to be part of the living world sure, a living world which contains different space times within it...

Also the demon realm portion just helps my argument further as it again refers to it as a dimension. Sure they can place/refer to this dimension on this visually inaccurate map as below it, because it still is just that.

A living world containing different space times isn’t true though since as far as I am aware we operated on the assumptions they have different space time in the case of living world isn’t exactly what I can verifying it being different space times continuums. Also in the same guide mentioned, it clearly use both the word “universe” and “dimension” in the same guide so overall part of the same macrocosm as such.

Oh yeah, it's definitely a part of the macrocosm.
The battle occurred in the Outer Space though, so the goal is to prove that the realms surrounding it are alternate spatiotemporal dimensions.

Which to being fair, I don’t see it being alternative spatiotemporal dimensions since the universe as in overall cosmological structure wise seems to being very focused on a single universe aside from the 12 universes of course.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also the Battle occurred on Planet Earth IIRC

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Also the Battle occurred on Planet Earth IIRC

"Outer Space" = The universe where Goku and friends live

andtobefairitoccurredinthestratosphere

 

[HammerStrikes219]

andtobefairitoccurredinthestratosphere

Wasn’t that later on the fight? If I recall correctly, the fight didn’t immediately start out in outer space, but rather on land at first.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The universe-threatening occurred in the stratosphere; that's where they had their numerous clashes.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The universe-threatening occurred in the stratosphere; that's where they had their numerous clashes.

Yeah, that is fair.
Also my stance still remains unchanged in terms of it being neutral, leaning towards not agreeing with it for the BOG stuff. Well, specifically for DBS at least.

 

[Spinoirr]

Eyy wasn't this closed?

Oh that was a recommended thread

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

holy zoinks, this already has 6 pages

 

[Shadyboi0]

If seth makes a stream on this, this gonna be good

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

If seth makes a stream on this, this gonna be good

ah hell nah

 

[AKM sama]

So I'm just gonna close the thread at this point. I believe everything regarding Low 2-C has been discussed already.