Low-1C doom slayer isn't joke!

[KieranH10]

The argument you point out is that it is advanced Tech completely nonsense and contradicts the content of DLC1 in every possible way. According to that Logic, The Father didn't need a physical body and banish demons from Urdak - which literally the entire contents of DLC1, Doom slayer also didn't have to depend on The Father or kill Davoth like the ONLY WAY to save THIS WORLD and its people (The earth which Doom eternal take place) despite all his feats against demon"s conquest and strength (2B possibly 2A and easily killing Davoth - who is stronger All demons combined and so play the role as Ruler, their Creator and Whole HEll is nothing more than an extension of his power) etc,...

Urdak being an interdimensional highway doesn't mean it's higher dimensional in any way though, being Higher Dimensional doesn't explain why it's able to reach the other universes, whereas their tech being more advanced does.

A quote I do want to bring up is:

Urdak itself exists in an anchor state, utilizing highly advanced dimensional shift technology to allow a static position at a sub-quantum level. This essentially inverts their position in relation to Hell; both planes of existence are fixed outside the bounds of the known universe, a 'lower' and 'higher' reality. The Khan Maykr oversees all within Urdak, and now utilizes Argent Energy to prevent the Transfiguration. - Story of the Maykrs, Urdak

Their relation the Universe is stated to be a higher reality here, but Hell is stated to be a lower reality, so is Hell a lower dimension?
Yes, they are fixed outside of the bounds of the "known universe" but if they are outside of Universes, opposite to Hell, then this could also explain why the Sentinels haven't found them, because if they're outside of the Space-Time of the Universes (much like Hell), then they would not be found in the Sentinels conquest.

I personally believe that we cant come to any real definitive conclusion without this supposed map of the cosmology, once that is out then we have concrete values for the multiverse and its scope. Until then it's kinda pointless to speculate since, chances are the results will change anyways. But if you wish to continue then I guess that's fine.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Urdak being an interdimensional highway doesn't mean it's higher dimensional in any way though, being Higher Dimensional doesn't explain why it's able to reach the other universes, whereas their tech being more advanced does.

The higher dimension and the interdimensional highway are actually one and the same in the context of the story. Hugo confirms that the Higher dimension of Urdak that the demons uses is the interdimension highway of Urdak as outlined in the OP. Why are they so linked together and eligible for Low-1C? I will say this with your arguments below.
Small note: I just want to prove Urdak is Low-1C and possibly the dimensions that the Sentinels reach with the Argent energy, not any other part of Cosmology itself Low-1C. That was the whole purpose of the CRT from the very beginning, otherwise Urdak and those dimensions would not be the only thing I came up with regardless of whether it was accepted or not

Essentially: Flowery language, Misinterpreting Quotes, and missing Context for a few points.

The Maykrs are an incredibly advanced, egotistical race who see themselves above all other life, so any "higher life" or "higher dimension" statements likely boil down to nothing more than ego, and technological advancement in comparison to other realms.

Let me ask you a question? Are these statements coming from any one Maykr? The Higher Dimensions Statement from Opening climax is Writer's own narrative, isn't anyone else? Then why is Maykr's opinion and ego important here? Even if it was Maykr's account, it was completely meaningless since the current Maykr only had Blood Maykr who was corrupted by the Icon of Sin and disgusted with Urdak.
An arrogant and egotistical villain is not synonymous with the whole plot relating to them that always seen from all other contexts as absolute truth including the narrator themselves as arrogant statements and impulsive the villain's ego of the character (unless they are edgy and psychological narrator)


Even your argument is always denied by the general story and context and has no source of support other than the Association fallacy and logic error? The Maykrs are arrogant and egotistical race with their technology, not essence of their homeworld is claimed by the neutral, third person omniscient source that is not contradicted from the context as the narrator is
"9. Association fallacy
This is when someone claims that since A has certain qualities, and B is in some way associated with A, then B has those qualities as well, without actual proof of this.

Example: "Many Naruto ninjas use genjutsu. Therefore Gai knows genjutsu as well."

While this could be possible, there is no confirmation, and merely because other ninjas know it doesn't mean he does."

Supposedly "Shattered fragments of Universes" being present in Urdak also means nothing for higher dimensionality, since we still see them in-game, meaning they're not higher dimensional. Them being contained by Urdak =/= Urdak being higher dimensional.

Urdak being an interdimensional highway to all realms doesn't support higher dimensionality, and actually further supports the claims simply meaning that they're more technologically advanced, since their tech is responsible for this "highway"

 

[Rabbit2002]

Supposedly "Shattered fragments of Universes" being present in Urdak also means nothing for higher dimensionality, since we still see them in-game, meaning they're not higher dimensional. Them being contained by Urdak =/= Urdak being higher dimensional.

Urdak being an interdimensional highway to all realms doesn't support higher dimensionality, and actually further supports the claims simply meaning that they're more technologically advanced, since their tech is responsible for this "highway"

The wiki accepts Higher dimensions vaild when Lower-dimensional universes are contained in Higher-dimensional space, which is all I want to prove.

Spoiler

Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?
A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space[/ SPOILER]

- Combined with all three (indispensable of any of these), respectively, contains the lower dimension universes as an insignificant, interdimensional highway and, most importantly, is declared the Higher dimension due to the preceding properties. This is quite sufficient for a solid L1C rating, of course there are many other things that serve as the additional arguments and transcendence that I have and have not yet raised. But I want to say one thing that does not want you or anyone else to misunderstand I mean that the interdimensional highway is not really a complete nexus of realities / universes, if so then the whole point of the Maykrs should need opening Portal gates in order to access any location of the universe from Urdak and Slayer to leave urdak is completely pointless (which is considered the only way).

- Instead, Urdak's "interdimensional highway" is due to its Higher dimension property and thus contains Lower-dimensional universes within it that you also acknowledge, which is why it allows demons don't travel to the other universes but instead directly extended Hell and chaos to all of existence, which is the whole reason why DLC1 happen, the Doom slayer wouldn't save even just the earth because Demons is not STRONGER than him that it is inevitable due to the Higher dimensional's transcendent nature (just as Gohan could not save the earth from the destruction of the Semi-perfect Cell in cell saga though much stronger than cell)
We see them in-game so they isn't Higher dimensions? Guy, do you know dozens of verses like Magi, scp, ... and they have Higher-dimensional entities FULLY visible by Lower dimensional entities when they interact? It's not an Avatar or something. And Doom slayer was considered by Urdak to be a member of Maykr when he got there (and that is reason why he can go to urdak )
And is there a statment in Lore that their technology is responsible for Highway ??

 

[Planck69]

Still agree with KieranH10 in that none of this is Low 1-C. This just seems to be misuse of the phrase "higher dimensions" to get a higher tier.

 

[Rabbit2002]

A quote I do want to bring up is:

Their relation the Universe is stated to be a higher reality here, but Hell is stated to be a lower reality, so is Hell a lower dimension?
Yes, they are fixed outside of the bounds of the "known universe" but if they are outside of Universes, opposite to Hell, then this could also explain why the Sentinels haven't found them, because if they're outside of the Space-Time of the Universes (much like Hell), then they would not be found in the Sentinels conquest.

This has nothing to do with the Higher or Lower dimensions of Urdak and Hell, whether or not they are. It is about Urdak's Holy seal, so no demon from a reality lower than the "main universe" can come to a reality higher than the "main universe". The entire content of DLC1 is that Urdak's Holy seal was broken due to Slayer's act of liberating Icon of Sin on Urdak and killing Khan Maykr who was the only reason no demons threatened All of creation / existence despite The The Holy seal is broken due to her being the power balancing force between Hell and Urdak from the start (It is possible to upgrade Khan to L1C if this is accepted). Besides, you don't realize you contradict yourself when claiming that Urdak Higher dimension is just the Maykrs' arrogance about technology and now citing something "Higher reality" that really proves cosmology instead of Flowery Language as you said before ?

 

[Rabbit2002]

Still agree with KieranH10 in that none of this is Low 1-C. This just seems to be misuse of the phrase "higher dimensions" to get a higher tier.

Kieran was fundamentally wrong. Did you actually read what I said or what you meant?

 

[Planck69]

Kieran was fundamentally wrong. Did you actually read what I said or what you meant?

Yes, I did and I see nothing Tier 1 here.

 

[KieranH10]

Besides, you don't realize you contradict yourself when claiming that Urdak Higher dimension is just the Maykrs' arrogance about technology and now citing something "Higher reality" that really proves cosmology instead of Flowery Language as you said before ?

I am citing that source to further disprove that they are not higher or lower dimensions. Not arguing that they're higher dimensions. Once again, flowery language being misunderstood.

Kieran was fundamentally wrong. Did you actually read what I said or what you meant?

You have stated a basic run down of what your points were, and that confirmed that I was understanding you correctly. The quotes have been misinterpreted, there is major flowery language, and some have been taken out of context, as I have already stated. Nothing in the OP gives any concrete evidence for Low 1-C.
You mentioning a Low 1-A Khan Maykr takes this even further out of proportion, since that also makes a Low 1-C Icon, who was directly stated to be a Low 2-C threat at max.

 

[Antvasima]

Kieran makes sense here. We should preferably close this thread soon to not unnecessarily waste people's time.

 

[Rabbit2002]

A quote I do want to bring up is:

Their relation the Universe is stated to be a higher reality here, but Hell is stated to be a lower reality, so is Hell a lower dimension?
Yes, they are fixed outside of the bounds of the "known universe" but if they are outside of Universes, opposite to Hell, then this could also explain why the Sentinels haven't found them, because if they're outside of the Space-Time of the Universes (much like Hell), then they would not be found in the Sentinels conquest.

And they easily managed to get there after the demons first arrived in the Argent d'nur, setting up countless crusades and battles in them against demons from all over the universe. throughout their history. Even they can easily travel to Immora in the deepest part of Hell without a Gate of Divium and open a series of gates with countless Night Sentinels and Altans led by Valven (End game version of Doom). Although Immora is a place no one can access including The Father without the Gate of Divium and Wraith Shards as its energy source. The Maykrs easily travels through space and time of all the know and unknown universes (that's why Khan has Time and dimensional travel on her Profile) but cannot go to Hell due to being banned by The Father, The Father's abilities outstrip Maykrs, being able to easily go and leave Hell at will, and can prohibit the Maykrs from coming completely biologically. set to enter Hell)
And Urdak has always been considered Inaccessible to them, even in the civil war they fight against the Mayks - finding ways to win even traveling across the Blood Swamps to find The Father. all of the Maykrs and disappeared from Urdak due to Seraphim giving his Nature / Life sphere to Ingore Sancturm without Maykr knowing where The Father is or why Seraphim / Samur did it

 

[KieranH10]

This still doesn't mean Low 1-C though... It just means they weren't found by the Sentinels, not that they're infinitely superior to and completely inaccessible to literally anything of "lower dimensions"

 

[Rabbit2002]

I am citing that source to further disprove that they are not higher or lower dimensions. Not arguing that they're higher dimensions. Once again, flowery language being misunderstood.

You have stated a basic run down of what your points were, and that confirmed that I was understanding you correctly. The quotes have been misinterpreted, there is major flowery language, and some have been taken out of context, as I have already stated. Nothing in the OP gives any concrete evidence for Low 1-C.
You mentioning a Low 1-A Khan Maykr takes this even further out of proportion, since that also makes a Low 1-C Icon, who was directly stated to be a Low 2-C threat at max.

Icon isn't scale for Khan because her feat and Low-2C threat isn't AP but passive reality warp and space-time manipulation + black hole

 

[Rabbit2002]

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is the majority opinion or because I was too clingy to my own argument but really Kieran's entire argument doesn't make any sense at all (at least to me). It is completely impossible to explain why the whole plot of DLC1 happen in the first place, the Doom slayer cannot stop the invasion on his own, why the statement of the Higher dimension of the Third person omniscient like Writer always about egotistical Maykrs, .... which would deny and literally throw any information about them into the garbage including itself and so many things else
Even if I ignore whether they qualify for Low-1C or not, I still find it completely meaningless, I am really too busy for real life things and being sick and waste lot of time for this
So you can decide whether to close Thread or not, that's all I need to say and I don't want circular arguments no matter whose.

 

[KieranH10]

Icon isn't scale for Khan because her feat and Low-2C threat isn't AP but passive reality warp and space-time manipulation + black hole

The Icon scales above the Khan Maykr, if she's Low 1-C, then so is he, which makes his defining trait (Low 2-C reality warping) completely pointless. A universal threat is completely irrelevant if there's higher dimensionals involved.

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is the majority opinion or because I was too clingy to my own argument but really Kieran's entire argument doesn't make any sense at all (at least to me). It is completely impossible to explain why the whole plot of DLC1 happen in the first place, the Doom slayer cannot stop the invasion on his own, why the statement of the Higher dimension of the Third person omniscient like Writer always about egotistical Maykrs, .... which would deny and literally throw any information about them into the garbage including itself and so many things else

The Codex can be interpreted as wrong in some cases, since we learned that not everything we knew from it was true thanks to Davoth being the original being, so we have to understand what can and cant be used from it.

Even if I ignore whether they qualify for Low-1C or not, I still find it completely meaningless, I am really too busy for real life things and being sick and waste lot of time for this
So you can decide whether to close Thread or not, that's all I need to say and I don't want circular arguments no matter whose.

Ok, if there's stuff going on irl with you then take care of that. This is just a forum after all, real life comes first. I hope you get well soon.

If you no longer wish to discuss then sure, we can close this.

 

[Vietthai96]

At first i decide just silently follow the CRT to see the argument because i think i'm too aggressive with you could make you think i'm a downplayer and undermine you and your attemp to upgrade the verse could create unnecessary hostile. But now seriously i think i need to talk: all of your argument is just you interpreting the word "higher dimension" and "lower dimension" and "inaccessible" as transcended over 2-A multiverse, and you forcing that interpretation of your on this CRT to make Low 1-C. To point out your faulty argument:

• Dimension could mean many thing depending on how you interpreting the word: world, universe, realm. etc.......why it must be strict to just dimension like you said, you must prove it with proper back-up evidence. Higher dimension could also mean many thing, it sit higher or better in term of enviroment, technology, development, etc...many way to interpret make the argument lost it weight
• Why inaccessible = infinitely superior in term of dimensionality, this is a very bad interpretation, don't tell me just because a world is totally space-time closed off from other world is higher dimensional than other world, this is completely wrong.

So again like all of people said here including me, you just pull thing out of context with your personal interpretation of dimensionality, that all. We probably should close this, unless OP have more evidence to argue.

 

[Planck69]

If there's no issue, I'll close this then.