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Lord of the Rings revisions
- Thread starter Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
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Anyway, would somebody be willing to appropriately update Eru's profile page?
Also, what else do we currently need to do here?
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If we put the Balrogs back to "at most 6-C" we would need to put this tier in a lot of other profiles right?
Also, a little late, but i agree with the Gil-Galad and Galadriel scaling
And once again, regarding the verse page, i was thinking of dividing by the verse of the books and the movies, like happens with A Song of Ice and Fire, of course, this would be something for the next couple of weeks, what you guys think?
Also, a little late, but i agree with the Gil-Galad and Galadriel scaling
And once again, regarding the verse page, i was thinking of dividing by the verse of the books and the movies, like happens with A Song of Ice and Fire, of course, this would be something for the next couple of weeks, what you guys think?
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I don't think we're changing them back, since the scream isn't necessarily consistent in strength up to that distance. I might change the wording to likely far higher though, as it does potentially jump tiers.
I think splitting the verse is a good idea.
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We will not do so, for reasons that Tyranno223 mentioned.
That seems like a good idea to me.
Hellbeast
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Agreed, LOTR has so many adaptations (like the SOM stuff, the BFME games, the Role Playing Game) that you could stand to have a few different verses
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MERP would be a fun one to make a verse for. Basically DnD LOTR (thougy obviously not on the same scale).
SOM already has some profiles, so that one's good.
Hellbeast
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I’ve heard it’s got good hax too but I can try comment, very curious to see what that’s like
Yep, reminds me, I gotta fix those
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It's very easy to find MERP content online, most of it is stored in free pdfs.
Lords of Middle-Earth: Vol 1-3 have character profiles for a lot of the big ones. It's ironically probably lower in sheer power, but there's a lot of hax.
Hellbeast
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Damn, can you hit me up with the highlights? I need my composite Sauron goodness
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I believe MERP uses the Rolemaster system, and Sauron is level 360 with the One Ring. He can basically do every spell on this list + multiple at once. I'm only vaguely familiar with the system, so there's probably more to it.
Highlights include instant death spells, geases (character has to do something, failure results in death), dessication spells (target instantly dries up), stat lowering spells, power null variants, and time manipulation (time stop and time travel)
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There's also some potent unique spells in his arsenal.
Domination - On sight, lower level characters have to roll or fall under his "absolute control"
Presence - Anyone coming into his sight must roll above a certain amout or they must flee for 1-10 minutes. A worse fail would result in a target being frozen for 10 rounds. A critical fail causes an opponent to die of fright.
He has some more stuff + unique items.
Domination - On sight, lower level characters have to roll or fall under his "absolute control"
Presence - Anyone coming into his sight must roll above a certain amout or they must flee for 1-10 minutes. A worse fail would result in a target being frozen for 10 rounds. A critical fail causes an opponent to die of fright.
He has some more stuff + unique items.
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Eru Ilúvatar's page needs unlocking.
Also, referring back to the current scaling for the Balrog feat. Is "likely higher" good enough, or is "likely far higher" better? The feat can go up to 6-C, so it can potentially jump tiers if it had better support.
Also, Hellbeast, Merchant, is the reasoning for the tier changes to the Elves okay?
Hellbeast
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Holy shit, this Sauron destroys Arthas lmao
Was this the Gil-Galad > Galadriel meta
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Yeah.
Gil-Galad scaling to LA Sauron (High 7-A)
Galadriel with Nenya scaling to War of the Rings Sauron (7-A) and to fellow Noldor without it (Low 7-B, likely higher).
Glorfindel scaling to a Balrog in his first key (Low 7-B, likely higher) and far above that in his second.
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Uh, did I miss something? If I did, sorry.
Hellbeast
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Yeah I really want to catalogue that now lmao
Is there art and stuff?
It was my joke comment about this Sauron wrecking Arthas lmao
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Yeah, MERP has a bunch of sheets online. PDFs are easy to find with a bit of googling. Their Balrogs look kinda goofy though
Hah, in my opinion, normal Sauron wrecks Arthas.
Hellbeast
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Oo mad
Damn spice
Wouldn’t mind making a sandbox for composite Sauron and Composite Arthas tho, see what happens when they have everything
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If you have a hard time finding any, I have few pdfs myself.
Composite Sauron is fun, but imagine the composite Valar.
Hellbeast
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I will handle it. Tell me here when you are done.
I think that "likely higher" is better, as it is logically extremely implausible that the same intensity was held at all distances of the earthquake.
@Hellbeast @TheMerchant66
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Galadriel going by how Tolkien constantly was rewriting her was meant to be a power house and is seemingly Fëanors equal and in Unfinished Tales her Light dispersed Saurons darkness in the Cirion and Eorl story. She is also said to be the greatest of the Eldae in mE which is why she took one of the 3 Great Rings the other 2 being Gil-Galad and Cirdan and considering Gil-Galad fought Sauron most likely "greatest" refers to power in that statement.
Glorfindel is pretty much solid how I see it an Elven Lord with the power of the 2 trees taking down a Balrog with a mutual kill and then becoming a near equal to the Maiar from Valinor post reincarnation with his light capanle of driving away the Nazgûl in similar fashion to Gandalf the White. I do believe he is weaker than the 3 mentioned Elves + Elrond though cause of the Rings of Power argument but who knows. Glorfindels reincarnation wasn't just a pure power boost either it made him more "Maia" in nature like Gandalf the White. He could fly and phase thru objects according to Tolkien in one of his letters.
What do you guys think of Men from Númenor? The lore straight up says they're actually stronger than elves just not as agile.
As for Maia feats there is a statement right after Sauron shakes Barad-Dûr that he sent a "tremor thru his realm" might be hyperbole though I suggest you guys look at it. He also has mental influence on all his non human troops in case you guys want to add that as a power, without said influence his troops went from fearless and efficent to chaotic and panicking en masse.
Sauron also caused Orodruin to erupt and sent a massive cloud out as well hut that seemed to be already covered, the entire existence of Barad-Dûr (which in the books isn't just a tower but seems more like a city of sorts) is held up by his power and seemingly indestructible.
I actually found a statement that does say all the Valar were needed to chain down Morgoth btw but I can't find it atm.
Glorfindel is pretty much solid how I see it an Elven Lord with the power of the 2 trees taking down a Balrog with a mutual kill and then becoming a near equal to the Maiar from Valinor post reincarnation with his light capanle of driving away the Nazgûl in similar fashion to Gandalf the White. I do believe he is weaker than the 3 mentioned Elves + Elrond though cause of the Rings of Power argument but who knows. Glorfindels reincarnation wasn't just a pure power boost either it made him more "Maia" in nature like Gandalf the White. He could fly and phase thru objects according to Tolkien in one of his letters.
What do you guys think of Men from Númenor? The lore straight up says they're actually stronger than elves just not as agile.
As for Maia feats there is a statement right after Sauron shakes Barad-Dûr that he sent a "tremor thru his realm" might be hyperbole though I suggest you guys look at it. He also has mental influence on all his non human troops in case you guys want to add that as a power, without said influence his troops went from fearless and efficent to chaotic and panicking en masse.
Sauron also caused Orodruin to erupt and sent a massive cloud out as well hut that seemed to be already covered, the entire existence of Barad-Dûr (which in the books isn't just a tower but seems more like a city of sorts) is held up by his power and seemingly indestructible.
I actually found a statement that does say all the Valar were needed to chain down Morgoth btw but I can't find it atm.
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Already commented on both, but both G1 and Death Battle have good blogs. Lots of help for abilities, and they noted some things I didn't realise.
I also have issues with both of them, with both blogs having inaccuracies and points I disagree with (for instance, Ultra comments Sauron of the First Age was likely stronger than the Second, when various accounts have him getting stronger).
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Do you have the line for the tremor thing? It might be worth calcing.
I'll comment on the rest later.
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On a bit of a flash forward, once we've gone through the rest of the tiers, I think I'll summarise the covered points in a blog. Hopefully that'll make it all cleaner. Regarding tiers and spastics at least.
I've also got some things I've potentially changed my opinion on that I might bring up.
I've also got some things I've potentially changed my opinion on that I might bring up.
Experiment12
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I do and you can see my thread there Eru Ilúvatar has a plot manipulation
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I've been planning on doing it soon. The page is currently still locked.
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I have unlocked the page again. I think that I had to lock it earlier due to vandalism, so please hurry up a bit.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Eru Ilúvatar
Eru Ilúvatar Eru is the God of Lord of the Rings, who created all the Ainur with his thoughts and taught them music. Together, they sung a Song of the Ainur, but the first harmony was destroyed by Melkor. Eru introduced a second harmony, with Manwë, brother of Melkor, as the leading role...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Should be done now.I have unlocked the page again. I think that I had to lock it earlier due to vandalism, so please hurry up a bit.
Eru Ilúvatar
Eru Ilúvatar Eru is the God of Lord of the Rings, who created all the Ainur with his thoughts and taught them music. Together, they sung a Song of the Ainur, but the first harmony was destroyed by Melkor. Eru introduced a second harmony, with Manwë, brother of Melkor, as the leading role...
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This is the quote:
"From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom."
Also if this hasn't been said already Barad-Dûr is also a projection of Saurons power which isn't just a tower but is more like a city similar to Minas Tirith just much larger with towers and battlements that are described as being big as hills and when the One Ring was destroyed it was causing earthquakes and mountains to crumble and crazy weather with Barad-Dûr collapsing entirely within the earth, said Earthquake was so powerful it swallowed all of Barad-Dûr including its pits down into an unknown but massively deep distance within the Earth + tons of crazy weather affects.
Barad-Dûr also has "immeasurable" pits filled with most likely Orcs and other monstrosities, it dwarfs Isengard in its entirety which is has an enclosed circle area of 1 mile in diameter, some estimates put Barad-Dûr 10x that number.
So a weakened Maia like Sauron (albeit still very powerful) creates cities with "indestructible" stone and can potentially drstroy it with his will to the point it sinks into the earth including already huge deep pits. We dunno how deep said pits are but I bet they are in the same ballpark as Moria which is 40 miles deep.
Here is how the book describes the destruction of Barad-Dûr:
A brief vision [Sam] had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up... until they toppled like an overwhelming wave.... And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled.
But Gandalf lifted up his arms and called once more in a clear voice:
'Stand, Men of the West!.... This is the hour of doom.'
And even as he spoke the earth rocked beneath their feet.... The earth groaned and quaked. The Towers of the Teeth swayed, tottered, and fell down; the mighty rampart crumbled; the Black Gate was hurled in ruin; and from far away, now dim, now growing, now mounting to the clouds, there came a drumming rumble, a roar, a long echoing roll of ruinous noise.
"From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom."
Also if this hasn't been said already Barad-Dûr is also a projection of Saurons power which isn't just a tower but is more like a city similar to Minas Tirith just much larger with towers and battlements that are described as being big as hills and when the One Ring was destroyed it was causing earthquakes and mountains to crumble and crazy weather with Barad-Dûr collapsing entirely within the earth, said Earthquake was so powerful it swallowed all of Barad-Dûr including its pits down into an unknown but massively deep distance within the Earth + tons of crazy weather affects.
Barad-Dûr also has "immeasurable" pits filled with most likely Orcs and other monstrosities, it dwarfs Isengard in its entirety which is has an enclosed circle area of 1 mile in diameter, some estimates put Barad-Dûr 10x that number.
So a weakened Maia like Sauron (albeit still very powerful) creates cities with "indestructible" stone and can potentially drstroy it with his will to the point it sinks into the earth including already huge deep pits. We dunno how deep said pits are but I bet they are in the same ballpark as Moria which is 40 miles deep.
Here is how the book describes the destruction of Barad-Dûr:
A brief vision [Sam] had of swirling cloud, and in the midst of it towers and battlements, tall as hills, founded upon a mighty mountain-throne above immeasurable pits; great courts and dungeons, eyeless prisons sheer as cliffs, and gaping gates of steel and adamant: and then all passed. Towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up... until they toppled like an overwhelming wave.... And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled.
But Gandalf lifted up his arms and called once more in a clear voice:
'Stand, Men of the West!.... This is the hour of doom.'
And even as he spoke the earth rocked beneath their feet.... The earth groaned and quaked. The Towers of the Teeth swayed, tottered, and fell down; the mighty rampart crumbled; the Black Gate was hurled in ruin; and from far away, now dim, now growing, now mounting to the clouds, there came a drumming rumble, a roar, a long echoing roll of ruinous noise.
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Experiment12
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Okay bro, does anyone want to discuss with me about Eru Ilúvatar having to get Low 1-C
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I really not that much experient in discussing anything above low 2-C, but i very skeptical about this upgrade considering the following facts:
- All the reference is from one letter where we can assume Eru is indirectly mentioned, for what i see overall on this wiki you need more more evidences to upgrade a profile to such degree
- We must remember at since the begging Tolkien don't see itself as the writer of the Legenderium, in his POV all those histories are ancient tales that he is translating to a modern audience, this doesn't mean that any of his characters have extra dimensional existence or any other sinanigans
- The moment he say someone else took the story he can be just saying that the entity inside the narrative interfere in that moment, and not that he is above the story or exist outside it (This is how tolkienist interpreted this letter here for example)
- This is further supported by the fact we must remember that Eru (Like it was discussed above) It is how Tolkien saw the christian god in his fictional setting, so we can assume that Eru is a perfect being and he made everything as it was meant to be, the vision he showed to the Ainur supported at he knew how his creation would behave, ever time he interfered in the story IT WAS BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE THAT WAY, so that moment mentioned in the letter is not plot manipulation BECAUSE ALL THE "PLOT" OF EA WAS DECIDED SINCE THE BEGGINING AND THERE IS NOTHING TO CHANGE
Experiment12
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*『 Cosmology *
At first, I want to explain all the Cosmology that exists in J.R.R Tolkien's fiction [1].
• The Silmarillion
• The Hobbit
• The Lord of the Rings
• The Children of Húrin
• Beren and Lúthien
• The History of Middle-earth - a twelve-volume series
• Unfinished Tales
• The Fall of Gondolin (2018)
[1]
And many more, some of J.R.R Tolkien's Legendary Fictions which are in the form of a timeline, to see more information, go to
https://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/books-by-tolkien/ [1]
—●—●—●—●—●—●—●—●
Okay, now we go directly to the starting point or the smallest point of the Cosmological which is quite variable, let's just go ahead.
First, we start from the "Plain" (universally can be called "Earth"), the following can be seen from the Photos from the Books directly exposed below [2]
[2]
️
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[3]
https://gyazo.com/e451355f36533c79957c0f9ec27a5464 [4]
https://gyazo.com/aac0c6597a7d47d8a2e8784cb4088b91 [4]
https://imgur.com/xd4sNgu [4]
https://gyazo.com/cf0b2e91d9889f490c882cf05c507f6b [4]
And don't forget, if the Solar System in J.R.R Tolkien Fiction is not much different from the others, it has the Sun and the Moon too. [3]
Dan ya, melanjutkan ke "[2]", Alam Semesta dalam JRR Tolkien Fiction memiliki Spatio+Temporal, yang memiliki ruang dan waktu serta Nasib Gandalf Greyhame yang setelah Mati (Jatuh dalam pertempuran melawan Durin's Bane) dan sedang melalui Proses dari Reinkarnasi, dia telah berjuta-juta tahun menjelajahi Alam Semesta, dan juga, saya telah memberikan banyak Peta Bumi yang ada di Fiksi JRR Tolkien, perkenalkan, Keindahan dan Struktur Alam Semesta dalam The Lord Of The Rings, Divisualisasikan dengan nama Middle-earth sebagai Universes 001 (awal) diperkenalkan oleh Tolkien, dan dengan penjelasan Structure (yang telah dijelaskan sebelumnya), Middle-earth memiliki Struktur L2C. [4]
Also, Middle-Earth on J.R.R Tolkien, it follows on Norse Mythology which is the "Universe" with that explanation, too, has the same meaning, with "Arda" which refers to "Universes" in Norse Mythology, not just a Point of The Universes, with that explanation. [4]
https://imgur.com/a/gHg6kOD [5]
Another version of Tolkien's Legendary, explains that there is an infinite quantity of universes, (Indefinite) as the realization of the vision of an Ainur (Angel) being, which makes this Cosmological structure owned by J.R.R Tolkien Fiction a Multiverse + (2A), which can became the benchmark for Valinor and Tom Bombadil's Place of Origin, "opens up as if it were a window into some other system".
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