Link fights another Devil May Cry Character

[The_real_cal_howard]

@The real cal howard

All on the profile in Void Mundus' tab

Also, when does Link resists any form of corruption? Because it's not on his profile.

It's under morality manipulation. It predates the creation of the corruption page, which is why it's not listed as that.

 

[ShivaShakti]

@The real cal howard
All on the profile in Void Mundus' tab

Also, when does Link resists any form of corruption? Because it's not on his profile.

The only mention of Corruption on Link's profile is resisting mortality manip.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

@The real cal howard
All on the profile in Void Mundus' tab

Also, when does Link resists any form of corruption? Because it's not on his profile.

The only mention of Corruption on Link's profile is resisting mortality manip.

Yeah, that does need to be updated. But have you SEEN what Malice does.

 

[Dienomite22]

It's under morality manipulation. It predates the creation of the corruption page, which is why it's not listed as that.

Yup, useless Mundus' corruption transforms the body into a demon. Should have been labled on the profile but I can fix that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Link...still hard resists transmutation and literally holds a sword that purges demonic stuff.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also again, why's speed equalized they're both MFTL

 

[Dienomite22]

It isn't transmutation and Link would have to not breathe in the air to not be affected and if he were then he probably couldn't use the sword.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Also again, why's speed equalized they're both MFTL

If it was unequalized Mundus would be faster.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It...very blatantly is, dude. Like, this is the exact same thing that Link goes through in ALTTP in the Dark World.

 

[Dienomite22]

Mundus is kinda nothingness that's everywhere within a pocket dimension filled with nothing and can attack from anywhere within said dimension and is almost 3x faster without equalization.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Mundus is kinda nothingness that's everywhere within a pocket dimension filled with nothing and can attack from anywhere within said dimension and is almost 3x faster without equalization.

Technically full triforce link scales leagues above BOTW link

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Also turning people into monsters is Mundus' passive? Again, does nobody remember what Malice does to Naydra

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Does it matter if Mundus is faster? I'd rather have Link lose than yet another speed equalized match that doesn't need to be equalized. Speed isn't as big a factor as people wank it to be unless it's definitively blitzworthy, and < 3x is far from that.

 

[Dienomite22]

Also turning people into monsters is Mundus' passive? Again, does nobody remember what Malice does to Naydra

One of his passives, the others haven't been contested yet, I believe.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Does it matter if Mundus is faster? I'd rather have Link lose than yet another speed equalized match that doesn't need to be equalized. Speed isn't as big a factor as people wank it to be unless it's definitively blitzworthy, and < 3x is far from that.

even discounting that, Link scales far above his feat since this is composite full triforce link vs BOTW triforceless link against mundus' feat

 

[ShivaShakti]

Theres still Madness Manip, Space-Time Manip, Fear Manip, Disease Manip, as well as his 2-C BFR.

 

[Dienomite22]

Does it matter if Mundus is faster? I'd rather have Link lose than yet another speed equalized match that doesn't need to be equalized. Speed isn't as big a factor as people wank it to be unless it's definitively blitzworthy, and < 3x is far from that.

I mean Mundus' passives + instant in-character BFR and crazy range makes speed kinda of a big deal. Not counting his pseudo omnipresent within his dimension and Link having to go inside of his dimension to even attack him.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Theres still Madness Manip, Space-Time Manip, Fear Manip, Disease Manip, as well as his 2-C BFR.

Madness Manip + Fear Manip = Subset of Mind Manip, resisted

Space-Time Manip = Time manip is resisted and link has dealt with space wielders

BFR = Magic Mirror

Pretty much everything = Triforce gg

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Taken from the profile.

"In the alternate timeline, Mundus was the embodiment of a void that was the source of all the energy contained within the Demon World, which is stated to be able to warp the minds of men, drive any human in it insane, turn souls into monsters, create time paradoxes, stop time on certain areas and warp space."

Warping space is useless unless it some Palkia level bs.

Link resists mind warping.

Link resists insanity.

Link resists soul manipulation.

Link is acausal.

Link can move in stopped time.

Tony was able to fight through the disease and it's ststed that you can fight it by being superhuman. It's not as good as you're making it out to be, let alone to someone with low Godly.

 

[Dienomite22]

Dante resisted the disease after adapting to it which took years of traveling to the underworld to do and his Regenerationn literally doesn't matter.

Link doesn't resist Madness Manipulation

Link doesn't resists Fear Manipulation

Link doesn't resists the Corruption.

And Link has to reach Mundus in order to attempt to attack him and even then we don't know if he could because NEP.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Link doesn't resist Madness Manipulation

Link doesn't resists Fear Manipulation

Link doesn't resists the Corruption.

he does tho

 

[Dienomite22]

Also, Mundus' Madness Manipulation, Disease Manipulation and Fear Manipulation intensify the closer you get to him or his domain which can be felt across universes and pocket dimensions and affected even people and demons who lived in the demon world and who resist these effects.

 

[Dienomite22]

Link doesn't resist Madness Manipulation

Link doesn't resists Fear Manipulation

Link doesn't resists the Corruption.

he does tho

Where is it on his profile? This is a common occurance in Link vs DMC threads I see.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Link doesn't resist Madness Manipulation

Link doesn't resists Fear Manipulation

Link doesn't resists the Corruption.

he does tho

It's not listed on his profile.

Link's resistance to mind hax as listed on his profile only shows him resisting being controlled, and resisting corruption.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Madness type 3 is almost a useless ability given in order to shrug it off you just need to be exposed to creepy eldritch stuff. So Link being unfazed with stuff like Majora or Bongo Bongo qualifies him for that.

Fear is a subset of mind manipulation.

Already proved that the corruption is resisted several times, through natural resistances, the Master Sword's purging, and the Moon Pearl.

Reaching Mundus isn't hard given he's not omnipresent. Invisibility is outdone by the Lens of Truth if he has it. And you'd have a point with NEP if it were type 2.

I have the disease quote right here. Not only is Link not fighting in the demon world, but Dante was able to will himself into fighting condition and it took at least ten minutes going further into the demon world to start screwing with him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also

>Fear

>Triforce of Courage

Instant counter even if Link didn't resist mindhax

 

[ShivaShakti]

Madness type 3 is almost a useless ability given in order to shrug it off you just need to be exposed to creepy eldritch stuff. So Link being unfazed with stuff like Majora or Bongo Bongo qualifies him for that.
Fear is a subset of mind manipulation.

Already proved that the corruption is resisted several times, through natural resistances, the Master Sword's purging, and the Moon Pearl.

Reaching Mundus isn't hard given he's not omnipresent. Invisibility is outdone by the Lens of Truth if he has it. And you'd have a point with NEP if it were type 2.

I have the disease quote right here. Not only is Link not fighting in the demon world, but Dante was able to will himself into fighting condition and it took at least ten minutes going further into the demon world to start screwing with him.

Saying you automatically resist madness type 3 because you encountered creepy eldritch shit is completely arbirtrary. Character's presences have to be stated or shown to induce insanity in the way madness manip type 3 does. Your basing his resistance off something he's never resisted.

resisting mind control =/= resisting lterally collapsing out of fear and despair

I'm not going to contest corruption being resisted as you've already proven that much.

Also refer to Dienomite's earier say about Dante having to adjust over the course of years to resist disease.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Also
>Fear

>Triforce of Courage

Instant counter even if Link didn't resist mindhax

Ok so I guess Vegeta should be upgraded to Low 2-C since his an ability called big bang attack.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ok so I guess Vegeta should be upgraded to Low 2-C since his an ability called big bang attack.

False equivalency. You and I both know what the ToC does.

 

[ShivaShakti]

you literally didn't give any other reasoning other than the name of his triforce.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Snip

Hey. Sometimes abilities just aren't good. Same reason we don't assume Cthulhu mindf***s everyone in fiction because they never saw him before. It's agreed on by everyone that simply having encountered similar existences makes you able to shrug off, as, and this is a concept VSBW has trouble understanding (this isn't directed specifically to you), not everything is solved by resistances.

Except no. A subset is a subset. Even then supernatural courage counters supernatural fear.

Proof for Dante's stuff? The quote says nothing about Dante building up a resistance over time.

 

[Dienomite22]

@The real cal howard

That's not how it works, make a CRT and apply that weakness for Type 3 Madness Manipulation. It should be easy if everyone agrees on it, otherwise it's hear say.

Fear manipulation isn't a subset of mind manipulation and you haven't provided reasonings for Link resisting outside Triforce of COURAGE.

The quote shows Dante being affected by the disease manipulation and in the volume 1 novel Dante was barely able to resist it's affects and never was actually fully able to overcome it until DMC3 and volume 2 Dante reflects on his past weakness to the demon world's properties and how he was now easily able to operate in the conditions.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty sure he quote I provided has Dante getting screwed by it, meaning this is well before Dante gets accustomed to it. Which doesn't change a lick of my statement.

What? Yes it totally is. You're welcome to change that if you will but fear is 100% accepted to be a subset of mind manipulation, alongside morality, empathic, and madness (t2). And still even if I was wrong, doesn't change the ToC point of supernatural courage countries supernatural fear.

Fine. I will make that CRT about type 3 madness.

 

[Elizhaa]

As the person who made the page, I will say NPI is limited to feats. So, if a characters got the NPI feat of affecting those NEP then they have that version. Conceptual Manipulation was never a must those affect those NEP. Characters with NPI feats existed like those in Kingdom Hearts could always deal with characters who have NEP.

On the topic of NPI type additions, I made a revison thread on the topic but it is was rejected.

The NEP's nerf thread was here.

From my experiences playing many Zelda games, I don't think Link ever had NPI feat against a character with NEP. So, I think he would get stomp. I was young when I played those Zelda games so I could be wrong on NEP.

I believe Corruption, in Zelda games, is like a standard abilties for many bosses in many stories; In many games, you have to defeated enemies who can outright cause corruption to stop corruption the region. I think Link should resists.

 

[Dienomite22]

@The real cal howard

If Dante was getting screwed by it at one point but then later is seen having resistance then that naturally means he adapted overtime and volume 1 Dante is never seen outright resisting the effects unlike DMC3 Dante which means he had to adapt between the time from the novel to 3 which would be over years.

I don't need to change anything, fear isn't labeled as a subset to mind manipulation and isn't described as needing to involve it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dude. The novel came before he could resist it fully. Dante back the could will himself to continue and fight on with difficulty, before he became capable of no selling it altogether. Which means that it can be fought through with difficulty.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Elizhaa

So this is likely a stomp for Mundus since Link can't actually attack him?

Also, how do you feel about the notion that if a character has seen something remotely "eldritch-like" in appearence they would automatically gain resistance to Madness type 3 despite that something never having feats of causing madness based off it's appearence?

 

[Dienomite22]

Dude. The novel came before he could resist it fully. Dante back the could will himself to continue and fight on with difficulty, before he became capable of no selling it altogether. Which means that it can be fought through with difficulty.

Yea, I never implied someone couldn't will themselves to fight under those conditions, just that it would be extremely hard since it intensifies exponentially the closer one gets to Mundus to the point the victim is basically crippled/faints or nearly dies.

 

[Dienomite22]

But the most important thing here is to determine if Link can actually interact with Mundus because as of right now he can't. That would decide if this is even worth arguing.

 

[Elizhaa]

So this is likely a stomp for Mundus since Link can't actually attack him?

>I would say yes. I like Link but it looks like he get stomp

Also, how do you feel about the notion that if a character has seen something remotely "eldritch-like" in appearence they would automatically gain resistance to Madness type 3 despite that something never having feats of causing madness based off it's appearence?

>I would say that character having Madness type 3 's resistance was wrong if that something never having feats or valid Statements of causing madness based off its appearance/or nature of being.