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Probably better
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Let's slow down a little (JJBA speed downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
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Another possibility.
Close range stands w/ reasonable justification to be comparable to the top tiers in speed could get ftl+ max just so they don't scale to the super top tiers.
The ones in the first revision comment keep their MFTL rating, the other close range stands get FTL+ max.
Everyone else who isn't based on speed (close range stands) OR does not have blitzing feats or statements of being faster (like black sabbath) get relativistic to relativistic+.
Agreed?
Close range stands w/ reasonable justification to be comparable to the top tiers in speed could get ftl+ max just so they don't scale to the super top tiers.
The ones in the first revision comment keep their MFTL rating, the other close range stands get FTL+ max.
Everyone else who isn't based on speed (close range stands) OR does not have blitzing feats or statements of being faster (like black sabbath) get relativistic to relativistic+.
Agreed?
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Somehow it doesn't seem right to call those as being MFTL feats.
MFTL scaling seems more appropriate. None of those characters actually have any objective feats of being MFTL.
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That makes more sense, they all have MFTL scaling then.
But it still stands. I understand that they shouldn't all scale to the close range stands, but are they really 10s to 100s of times slower just because "they shouldn't be that high up"?
But it still stands. I understand that they shouldn't all scale to the close range stands, but are they really 10s to 100s of times slower just because "they shouldn't be that high up"?
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Perhaps the original characters are rated 10s to 100s of times too fast?
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that just circles back to the feat itself
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Why would Crazy Diamond be scaling to FTL+ or MFTL if it was struggling to keep up with Red Hot Chili Pepper whose highest stated speed was the speed of light?
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The **** did I miss.
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He didn't "blitz" Chariot. Chariot went to attack him then lol made of sand. Nothing he did actually qualifies as a blitz.
This one isn't even true, he kept up with JOTARO. It aint like Jotaro runs at lightspeed let alone MFTL. HG is like, maybe FTL lowend. Nothing more, nothing less. Especially when characters like Dio see Emerald Splash in slow motion, his fastest attack comes out to slow motion to the faster characters.
He defeated him with a surprise attack. He can keep up, but he's still not as fast. If we're being conservative I'd say possibly higher instead of just likely MFTL.
A Crazy Diamond who was stated to have gotten drastically stronger and even faster than he was when he fought The Hand, by RHCP himself. The Hand, best case scenario, Rel+.
RHCP is literally just SoL. He sure as **** aint MFTL when he's slower than a old ass Star Platinum who's no longer in his heyday.
We aren't scaling anyone in Part 5 to MFTL except King Crimson. Literally nobody is as fast as Chariot and the only way to scale them that high is through King Crimson, who they can barely react to. Drop the MFTL from every single one of them. The only reason for scaling here is that he reached King Crimson before he grabbed the arrow, then King Crimson promptly deflects all of its attacks.
This is like the only one that's remotely fair Part 5 wise, but still a tad sus.
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RHCP is sol in travel speed, not reaction or combat, plus he was attacking him from blind spots from different directions
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No again those are 100% your own headcannon interpretation of the feat, all we see is that SC cut HM when it nearly reached the coin, nothing more, nothing less.
SC can be anywhere before that and context overwhelmingly support that it was at the ready to hit HM, period.
But feats need proper evaluation and that needs context which is provided by statements, is not simply Pol saying he can't do something, it's the fact he was right and couldn't do said thing except under extremely precise circumstances.
If you want to disregard everything on account of one misinterpreted panel alone then what do you make of the many panels where HM is too fast for Pol and SC?
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Except we quite literally see, one panel prior, Polnareff yelling "Now!" indicating when Chariot began his slash. And the fact Chariot was nowhere to be seen, not even his sword, when HM was mere cm away from the coin, which, if what you're trying to insinuate is true, we'd literally see the sword in view already coming to cut him off (we don't) as you're effectively claiming Chariot was already slashing, if he was we'd literally see it. "Nothing more, nothing less" simply does not work here. There is more, and you're acting like it doesn't exist. Headcanon interpretation of the feat? When every single adaption portrays it the exact same way, including, ironically enough, the manga itself. There is no headcanon here, it's just how it happens.
Need a reminder, this is how the feat plays out in every adaption, why? Because it's also how it plays out in the manga. I'm not even saying the anime is canon so stop before you say that, what I am saying though is how the hell is this feat confusing when you have visible motion adaptions showing you how it played out.
Yes, he could be anywhere but there. We don't see him there so he wasn't. No zoom out is gonna change that when the zoom out amounts to only like 6cm, you know how far into the POV Chariot is in the second panel? More than 6cm. We'd have seen him, and if not him, his sword for being on the same plane as HM. There is no "well context says", you're making it up, it simply doesn't happen. Stop trying to say a feat doesn't happen the way it very clearly does, don't like the feat? Think its an outlier? Fine whatever, at least that's subjective. But saying the feat doesn't play out the way it does is wrong and it's getting ******* annoying.
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Chariot being ready to strike there doesn't matter, the calculation used is just for the slash itself. This doesn't need to be discussed anymore as it'll just go in circles, everything that needed to be said about this has already been said, so unless someone has something new to add to this, I suggest we stop going in circles constantly and not waste everyone's time.
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You wont see the sword because the panel is closer to the coin, how anime depicts it is completely irrelevant since it isn't canon, for God's sake the two anime version contradict not only the manga but EACH OTHER.
The idea that the "Now!" dialogo is where SC attacks and not when the Vagrant closes his eyes starting HM movement is also 100% headcanon.
******* annoying is the fact you fail to understand there's no panel showing SC at all until after it already hit HM, there's no panel of SC being summoned after HM starts moving, there's no panel of SC starting the cut when HM is arlready near the coin and there's no panel that allows us to know in what moment of the event sequence Pol says "Now!"
All there is is a close up of the coint where it's impossible to accurately calc any distance or depth to the panel because the author didn't bother to properly draw the coin in relation to anything,we just know the focus is the coin.
Then the next panel zooms out and SC already cut HM.
Any further detail is only provided trough the context given by the dialogues.
We don't see the slash, we just know he timed HM.
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Chariot's slash is simply way faster than Lightspeed (MFTL according to the calc). And even the manga supports that he slashed. Unless you are suggesting that Silver Chariot simply placed his sword in Hanged Man's trajectory (which is completely unsupported)
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Holy ******* shit. You are literally saying that Chariot's slash had already begun and was in the process of being done even when HM was about to reach the coin. We see HM not even 2cm away from the coin yet Chariot's sword is nowhere to be seen. Even though both HM and the coin are on the exact same plane and depth, which Chariot's sword would also have to be on because he's literally trying to ******* HIT Hanged Man.
Are you for ******* real right now? In all my time on this wiki I have never seen a single person plug their ears and act like something doesn't exist like you right now.
The panel is closer to the coin? What part of by SIX CENTIMETER is hard to comprehend? This isn't some 2000% zoom in or out, it's barely anything at all, it is quite literally impossible for Chariot to NOT BE ON PANEL if he was already thereq.
How the anime depicts it is relevant because when every single adaption says "HM was almost at the coin, and the Chariot came out, beat him to the coin, and managed to slash him before he hit it", is evidence and direct support of that is how that scene played out, not that it should even matter as that's literally what we're shown in the manga too.
Are you actually blind?
Here is the panel were he closes his ******* eyes.
Here is the panel were Pol says now, when HM is almost at the coin.
It's not headcanon, it's literally what we ******* see. And oh yeah, the adaptions keep it consistent too, Pol only says Now! or The moment! (depending on translation) when HM is almost at the coin, then Chariot slashes.
And? Because it all happened between the two panels. Like it or not, we know when he began his slash, was it shown? No but that doesn't matter, we know he performed a 90 degree slash based on his movements and the speedlines and motion blur, we know when he began his slash and we know how far the HM was when he did said slash.
It actually is, it's called angsizing, I dropped the two panels in paint, did some pixel scaling, and the difference from POV from the two panels is LITERALLY only 6cm. As such, Chariot not being seen means he simply wasn't there. And Reminder, the man is in all three panels as well, not just the coin, stop acting like he isnt.
Yes, meaning he cut him between Panel 1 and 2 and we see the aftermath of the cut.
Yes, like "Now!".
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That isnt even possible, if that was what happened we'd see the sword in the first panel when he was already close to the coin as both the sword and HM and the coin would be on the exact same layer of depth. It's not even that it's unsupported, it's that it's impossible.
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That's the thing, the calc assumes Pol deliberately waited for HM to almost reach the coint before doing anything, which makes no sense.
What the panel shows is HM was cut by SC near the coin, nothing more.
Anime is irrelevant on account of not being canon, period
Second you wouldn't see SC because the panel focus is the coin, and **** no there is not just 6cm of diference from one panel to the next, Araki just reused the lower part of the scan and arbitrarily changed the size of the coin to express a zoom out, that's why the coin uses almost the whole panel's widht
The panel where Pol says "Now!" shows the whole trajectory from HM from the eye to near the coin, thinking he spoke just as HM almost reaches the coin is your interpretation and makes no sense in context.
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The manga is very explicitly showing that Silver Chariot slashed Hanged Man after he started moving and after he almost reached the coin. Even if you just look at the length of Silver Chariot's swing arc, it becomes obvious that he has to be quite significantly FTL to perform the feat
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No it doesnt? The calc assumes Chariot's slash began when Pol said now. Which is exactly what happened. I hope to god you realize the calc isnt calculating Chariot's movement to the coin or anything, but literally JUST the slash.
It shows that Chariot began his slash after the HM was almost at the coin.
Anime adaptions showing the same sequence of events every time that confirm exactly what happened in the manga is relevant, how new are you? It'd be different if the anime had that shit play out completely differently, but it doesn't, it's the exact same order of events as the manga, unfortunately you simply dont understand that.
Dude, the zoom out using the COIN as the basis is 6cm. You know how tiny a ******* coin is? The coin could increase in size by like 10x, and it'd only be a zoom in of like maybe, 2 feet. A zoom of of like 2x for a coin that's only a cm or two big is minuscule. And Chariot himself is far closer to the coin in the second panel anyway. There's no way in **** it isnt 6cm? Well don't know what to tell you, but it is.
If what you were saying is true he'd have said Now! not after the HM was almost at the coin but in the panel where he the dude closes his ******* eyes. But no, that doesn't happen, he says Now! when HM is almost at the coin, this is what happens, this is what we're shown. Saying this isn't what happened is literally twisting and making shit up to say it isn't what actually occurred and, would you look at that, the anime has him say it when he's almost at the coin too, it showing the whole trajectory means nothing, hell that alone disproves Chariot was there already or slashing already, the BEAM OF LIGHT is almost there, and Chariot has yet to begin his slash and Pol says it then, not before.
Dont know why youre posting the whole panel as if I hadnt myself several times.
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That is LITERALLY what the calc is. The calc is quite literally only calculating Chariot's arm swing, nothing else. The whole "he was or wasnt there" doesnt even effect the calc, only the swing does, and the swing, absolutely, did not happen till he was almost there, there is no way around this. No zoom out zoom in bullshit either as the slash is on the same plane of depth, if the coin can be seen or HM, so would the slash.
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The manga explains HM is faster than SC, then shows SC performing a cut in the time the HM moves from the vagrant to the coin.
It's completely diferent to the manga since SC outrigh flys faster than HM and positions itself between the beam and the coin, they aren't even consisten with each other, so they are irrelevant because they aren't canon to the manga.
A coin isn't going to look 5 times bigger if you move it 6cm away from your face, Araki simply did't care about perspective and just wanted a zoom into the coin.
If he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost.
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Nope not even once. Instead Silver Chariot slashes Hanged Man the moment he figured out his trick. (Please stop going around this in circles, this has been explained several times in this thread alone)
And as it has been said, the actual calc only considered Silver Chariot's sword swing
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By assuming it only started moving once HM was near the coin which isn't show.
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No, the manga says HM is a bit to fast for Pol, not the Stand itself, don't twist what it actually says. It shows Chariot slashing him after he had almost reached the coin.
But you know what is consistent? The fact HM almost got to the coin, Chariot then comes out, beats him to it, then slashes. And aren't canon to the manga? Ignoring several things in the anime were stated to be canon. It confirms what happens in the manga.
It's not barely even two times bigger, it's 31px to like 67px. As said, I literally pixel scaled it to find the depth change. Oh? You're Araki now? I didn't know you could speak for him in regards to his artwork. Tough luck, 6cm change, that's all it is, and it wouldn't even matter, the sword is on the same layer of depth. I don't think you understand, if the coin is VISIBLE AT ALL, we'd see the sword, but we don't,.
And yet he doesn't, he says Now! when the ****** is almost touching the thing, and Chariot hits it anyway.
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It has been shown to be exactly that.
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No, not at all. Chariot moving at all isn't even considered in the slightest, the calcer himself mentions at the end.
The calc is quite literally just the swing.
The swing we know happens when he's almost at the coin, no zoom out is going to change this. Have you not realized that the sword would HAVE TO BE SEEN as it's literally on the same layer of depth as both the HM and coin by virtue of hitting the ******? If the sword isnt there in panel 1, it means the slash had yet to begin, couple that with Pol literally saying when the slash begins.
Put 2 and 2 together.
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You seemingly disproved your own point right about here
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SC isn't show until after the it completed his cut, we never see the sword while HM is moving.
The thing isn't said to be just a bit faster than Pol, nor is there any indication of SC being 300 times faster than his user.
But that didn't happen in the manga, Chariot never placed itself between coin and beam, he cut HM from the side, therefore non canon and useless.
Then how does that work with the coin being higher in the next panel and why do you think it looks much farther from the viewer despite the vagrant not changing distance at all?
The only way that makes sense is if the coin is actually supposed to move between panels, which we know it doesn't.
Simply the panel is too inconsistent to try and get a correct distance and depth scalling.
Again that's your interpretation, the whole HM travel and the dialogue are in the same panel.
It's simple, Pol can't even follow HM with his eyes yet you assume he waited for HM to almost reach the coin, despite supposedly not being able to follow the stand at all just because of a panel where SC isn't even supposed to be seen.
How?
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FYI that wasn't me who created them, I just took their current ratings from their profiles and changed the speed.
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"If he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost." - implying (correctly) that Polnareff yelled "Now" and Silver Chariot activated after Hanged Man had started moving
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Polnareff can follow Hanged Man with his eyes - especially when Hanged Man has limited choices of reflective surfaces. This was explicitly shown before
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Yeah no shit, because he wasn't there. You just proved yourself wrong. We literally see HM moving, but not the sword or slash. Even the the slash is GURANTEED TO BE ON THE SAME DEPTH as HM.
Also you're right, he says it's just faster than what someone could normally see. I'd say Chariot pulling off feats showing it to be 300times faster than its user would be evidence to say it's 300x faster than its user. Kinda basic shit here dude. ****, the whole point is Stands are better then their users 99% of the time. I dont see Giorno tossing cars or punching a dude who knows how many times in a fraction of a second.
Are you dense? That isn't what I said, you know what DOES happen in every adaption? HM begins moving, almost reaches the coin, Chariot then beats it to the coin, proceeds to slash it, all before he can cover that last bit of distance. THIS is what happens in every adaption, as well as the manga.
"it looks much farther". Even though I'm giving you the math, it's 31px in panel 1, 67 in panel 2. Using the angsizing formula its about 6cm of change. The man was already cut off in the first panel. You're actually arguing for a ZOOM IN here, you realize that right?
See above, rather.
Oh, now you're resorting to saying "well it cant be used at all". You know what we do in these situations? Use the adaptions if they have more accurate scaling. And would you look at that, the anime shows it the same way (alternatively we can just use the information we're given and calc the panel in question where its relevant. Because mind you, none of this changes the calc, you realize that right? The calc uses the distance we see in panel 1 when Pol starts to initiate his attack, and that's it, that's literally all we need to know and that's literally all the calc used).
That's not my interpretation, holy shit.
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We literally ******* SEE how far HM is when he says it, the spoken dialogue happens when HM is at a certain point, the dialogue in question is explicitly about when Chariot begins his attack. THEREFORE Chariot begins his attack when HM is that far away from the coin, not ******* before and sure as hell not when the man closes his eyes as that was the panel prior and **** all was said in that panel. And oh, wait, look at that, the anime has the exclamation be said when HM was near the coin too, kinda exactly like it was shown. The only interpretation here is yours, except i wouldn't even go as far to call yours an interpretation, doing so would imply there's something to interpret, rather it's more along the lines of blatant misinformation and ignorance.
Except that time he literally followed HM with his eyes but let's ignore that. Oh he isnt "supposed to be seen", you know this how? You don't. And it doesnt matter, the fact is he LITERALLY CAN NOT BE THERE. It is ******* IMPOSSIBLE. Either he was already there and slashing and we'd at the very least see the sword because the sword and HM and the coin are on the same layer of depth as the sword nearly bisects HM, OR, we dont see the sword at all anywhere on the panel despite HM being close to the coin, which tells us Chariot had yet to slash and the exclamation further confirms it. This isn't even an argument, like holy shit am I being punked right now?
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No, I said if he ordered the attack before HM even moved from the Vagrant's eye he would miss, that doesn't mean he waited until it was close to the coin to attack.
He can't follow it from surface to surface following the flash of light after it reaches the target, he explicitly can't see HM itself.
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I agree with Chariot FRA
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wow this debate about hanged man feat is dragging just like american election day
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It does because that's LITERALLY WHAT HAPPENS. He would've missed? Means to and end their dude, you're saying this couldnt of happened, he would have missed if he did, Which is why this is an argument in and of itself because he DID DO IT. Have you not been paying attention at all. This is ridiculous. Why the **** are we arguing over the most basic ass shit, as said, you want opinions on subjective matters like outlier or other shit? Fine, subjectivity is a thing but this is a OBJECTIVE fact, there's nothing to argue here. And yet here you are repeating the same shit ad nauseum even though everyone agreed to ******* drop it.
Except that time he did.
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Irrelevant because it already deviated from the manga, either the whole scene is canon or it isn't, there's no picking and choosing.
That's what you aren't getting, if the distance to the coin changes the vagrant's drawing should cange too, that's how you realize the whole scan is out of scale.
Yet nearly every use of it supports the opposite which even if true would make it a outlier and useless in universe.
The anime is irrelevant and the dialogue location in a single panel isn't indicative of when it happens in relation to the drawing in said panel.
Pol simply says Now once he knows HM is starting to move.
Except I already explained he just follows the flash of light and HM always reach his target first, wich goes in line with Pol saying is faster than he can see and that's why he needs timing to catch it.
The sword thing as was already said is just because the panel is focused in the coin, you are not even supposed to see the sword that is supposed to be coming from outside the panel but close enough to hit HM before it reaches the coin.
Pixel scaling is just wonky because of Araki's disregard for depth and distance and context by the manga itself indicates Chariot and Polnareff simply used timing and that's why they needed to know where HM was going to be and when, as proved by them being unable to harm it otherwise.
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