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Probably betterPut everyone in Part 3 and 4 except top tiers Relativistic to Relativistic+ instead of FTL, FTL+, and MFTL, since we have canon speed of light characters.
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Probably betterPut everyone in Part 3 and 4 except top tiers Relativistic to Relativistic+ instead of FTL, FTL+, and MFTL, since we have canon speed of light characters.
And I'm doing the villains in a google doc since part 3 and 5 got so many villains, you wouldn't believe how many have FTL+ to MFTL feats (being comparable to MFTL people) that It's not even funny.
Perhaps the original characters are rated 10s to 100s of times too fast?That makes more sense, they all have MFTL scaling then.
But it still stands. I understand that they shouldn't all scale to the close range stands, but are they really 10s to 100s of times slower just because "they shouldn't be that high up"?
that just circles back to the feat itselfPerhaps the original characters are rated 10s to 100s of times too fast?
The Fool: Massively FTL (Blitzed Silver Chariot in its initial meeting). I can't put that as FTL+ to MFTL, he flat out blitzed him.
Heirophant Green: FTL+, likely Massively FTL (Kept up with Star Platinum in a chase with its tentacles, and tagged him with an Emerald Splash).
Magician's Red: FTL+, likely Massively FTL (Kept up with and defeated Silver Chariot).
The Hand: FTL+, possibly Massively FTL (The Hand was capable of keeping up with Crazy Diamond; reacted to and caught a punch from it).
Red Hot Chili Pepper: Massively FTL with Red Hot Chili Pepper (Can blitz the Hand when charged up and move Josuke without him realizing it, before keeping up with Crazy Diamond.Stated to travel at the speed of light.After absorbing Morioh's electricity, it blitzed Crazy Diamond). That speed of light one needs to be discussed.
Sex Pistols: FTL+, likely Massively FTL (Can kick bullets faster than Sticky Fingers can attack. Reached King Crimson before it could grab the Requiem Arrow. They could catch Beach Boy's hook, which Bucciarati was unable to evade).
Spice Girl: FTL+, possibly Massively FTL with Spice Girl (Cut off Sticky Fingers' arm without Bucciarati realizing it).
This is false. Like it or not, at the end of the day, we know what happened. Chariot did a, at least, 90 degree quarter circle slash which he began to perform when Hanged Man was already mere cm or two away from the coin. We know this, we are given all the information we need to come to this conclusion, this is not subject to debate. We are even given the direct confirmation on when he began his move as well.
I myself fully agree with this post. The huge majority of Stands should be downgraded since they simply don't scale to Silver Chariot, an Stand whose whole stick is being fast, but saying the feat that objectively happened doesn't apply because of a statement goes against the whole basis of this site, feats > statements, it doesn't matter if Pol says he can't do it if he does in fact do it later on. So downgrade basically the whole verse if needed, but the likes Star Platinum must definitely scale to this feat.
No again those are 100% your own headcannon interpretation of the feat, all we see is that SC cut HM when it nearly reached the coin, nothing more, nothing less.
SC can be anywhere before that and context overwhelmingly support that it was at the ready to hit HM, period.
Except we quite literally see, one panel prior, Polnareff yelling "Now!" indicating when Chariot began his slash. And the fact Chariot was nowhere to be seen, not even his sword, when HM was mere cm away from the coin, which, if what you're trying to insinuate is true, we'd literally see the sword in view already coming to cut him off (we don't) as you're effectively claiming Chariot was already slashing, if he was we'd literally see it. "Nothing more, nothing less" simply does not work here. There is more, and you're acting like it doesn't exist. Headcanon interpretation of the feat? When every single adaption portrays it the exact same way, including, ironically enough, the manga itself. There is no headcanon here, it's just how it happens.
Yes, he could be anywhere but there. We don't see him there so he wasn't. No zoom out is gonna change that when the zoom out amounts to only like 6cm, you know how far into the POV Chariot is in the second panel? More than 6cm. We'd have seen him, and if not him, his sword for being on the same plane as HM. There is no "well context says", you're making it up, it simply doesn't happen. Stop trying to say a feat doesn't happen the way it very clearly does, don't like the feat? Think its an outlier? Fine whatever, at least that's subjective. But saying the feat doesn't play out the way it does is wrong and it's getting ******* annoying.
Chariot being ready to strike there doesn't matter, the calculation used is just for the slash itself. This doesn't need to be discussed anymore as it'll just go in circles, everything that needed to be said about this has already been said, so unless someone has something new to add to this, I suggest we stop going in circles constantly and not waste everyone's time.
Chariot's slash is simply way faster than Lightspeed (MFTL according to the calc). And even the manga supports that he slashed. Unless you are suggesting that Silver Chariot simply placed his sword in Hanged Man's trajectory (which is completely unsupported)We don't see the slash, we just know he timed HM.
You wont see the sword because the panel is closer to the coin, how anime depicts it is completely irrelevant since it isn't canon, for God's sake the two anime version contradict not only the manga but EACH OTHER.
The idea that the "Now!" dialogo is where SC attacks and not when the Vagrant closes his eyes starting HM movement is also 100% headcanon.
******* annoying is the fact you fail to understand there's no panel showing SC at all until after it already hit HM, there's no panel of SC being summoned after HM starts moving, there's no panel of SC starting the cut when HM is arlready near the coin and there's no panel that allows us to know in what moment of the event sequence Pol says "Now!"
All there is is a close up of the coint where it's impossible to accurately calc any distance or depth to the panel because the author didn't bother to properly draw the coin in relation to anything,we just know the focus is the coin.
Then the next panel zooms out and SC already cut HM.
Any further detail is only provided trough the context given by the dialogues.
Silver Chariot simply placed his sword in Hanged Man's trajectory (which is completely unsupported)
Chariot's slash is simply way faster than Lightspeed (MFTL according to the calc). And even the manga supports that he slashed. Unless you are suggesting that Silver Chariot simply placed his sword in Hanged Man's trajectory (which is completely unsupported)
Holy ******* shit. You are literally saying that Chariot's slash had already begun and was in the process of being done even when HM was about to reach the coin. We see HM not even 2cm away from the coin yet Chariot's sword is nowhere to be seen. Even though both HM and the coin are on the exact same plane and depth, which Chariot's sword would also have to be on because he's literally trying to ******* HIT Hanged Man.
Are you for ******* real right now? In all my time on this wiki I have never seen a single person plug their ears and act like something doesn't exist like you right now.
The panel is closer to the coin? What part of by SIX CENTIMETER is hard to comprehend? This isn't some 2000% zoom in or out, it's barely anything at all, it is quite literally impossible for Chariot to NOT BE ON PANEL if he was already thereq.
How the anime depicts it is relevant because when every single adaption says "HM was almost at the coin, and the Chariot came out, beat him to the coin, and managed to slash him before he hit it", is evidence and direct support of that is how that scene played out, not that it should even matter as that's literally what we're shown in the manga too.
That's the thing, the calc assumes Pol deliberately waited for HM to almost reach the coint before doing anything, which makes no sense.
What the panel shows is HM was cut by SC near the coin, nothing more.
Anime is irrelevant on account of not being canon, period
Second you wouldn't see SC because the panel focus is the coin, and **** no there is not just 6cm of diference from one panel to the next, Araki just reused the lower part of the scan and arbitrarily changed the size of the coin to express a zoom out, that's why the coin uses almost the whole panel's widht
The panel where Pol says "Now!" shows the whole trajectory from HM from the eye to near the coin, thinking he spoke just as HM almost reaches the coin is your interpretation and makes no sense in context.
Even if you just look at the length of Silver Chariot's swing arc, it becomes obvious that he has to be quite significantly FTL to perform the feat
The manga is very explicitly showing that Silver Chariot slashed Hanged Man after he started moving and after he almost reached the coin. Even if you just look at the length of Silver Chariot's swing arc, it becomes obvious that he has to be quite significantly FTL to perform the feat
Anime adaptions showing the same sequence of events every time that confirm exactly what happened in the manga is relevant, how new are you? It'd be different if the anime had that shit play out completely differently, but it doesn't, it's the exact same order of events as the manga, unfortunately you simply dont understand that.
Dude, the zoom out using the COIN as the basis is 6cm. You know how tiny a ******* coin is? The coin could increase in size by like 10x, and it'd only be a zoom in of like maybe, 2 feet. A zoom of of like 2x for a coin that's only a cm or two big is minuscule. And Chariot himself is far closer to the coin in the second panel anyway. There's no way in **** it isnt 6cm? Well don't know what to tell you, but it is.
If what you were saying is true he'd have said Now! not after the HM was almost at the coin but in the panel where he the dude closes his ******* eyes. But no, that doesn't happen, he says Now! when HM is almost at the coin, this is what happens, this is what we're shown. Saying this isn't what happened is literally twisting and making shit up to say it isn't what actually occurred and, would you look at that, the anime has him say it when he's almost at the coin too, it showing the whole trajectory means nothing, hell that alone disproves Chariot was there already or slashing already, the BEAM OF LIGHT is almost there, and Chariot has yet to begin his slash and Pol says it then, not before.
Dont know why youre posting the whole panel as if I hadnt myself several times.
Nope not even once. Instead Silver Chariot slashes Hanged Man the moment he figured out his trick. (Please stop going around this in circles, this has been explained several times in this thread alone)The manga explains HM is faster than SC, then shows SC performing a cut in the time the HM moves from the vagrant to the coin.
Nope not even once
And as it has been said, the actual calc only considered Silver Chariot's sword swing
The manga explains HM is faster than SC, then shows SC performing a cut in the time the HM moves from the vagrant to the coin.
It's completely diferent to the manga since SC outrigh flys faster than HM and positions itself between the beam and the coin, they aren't even consisten with each other, so they are irrelevant because they aren't canon to the manga, because it's what we see there too.
A coin isn't going to look 5 times bigger if you move it 6cm away from your face, Araki simply did't care about perspective and just wanted a zoom into the coin.
If he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost.
It has been shown to be exactly that.By assuming it only started moving once HM was near the coin which isn't show.
By assuming it only started moving once HM was near the coin which isn't show.
You seemingly disproved your own point right about hereIf he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost.
No, the manga says HM is a bit to fast for Pol, not the Stand itself, don't twist what it actually says. It shows Chariot slashing him after he had almost reached the coin.
But you know what is consistent? The fact HM almost got to the coin, Chariot then comes out, beats him to it, then slashes. And aren't canon to the manga? Ignoring several things in the anime were stated to be canon. It confirms what happens in the manga.
It's not barely even two times bigger, it's 31px to like 67px. As said, I literally pixel scaled it to find the depth change. Oh? You're Araki now? I didn't know you could speak for him in regards to his artwork. Tough luck, 6cm change, that's all it is, and it wouldn't even matter, the sword is on the same layer of depth. I don't think you understand, if the coin is VISIBLE AT ALL, we'd see the sword, but we don't,.
And yet he doesn't, he says Now! when the ****** is almost touching the thing, and Chariot hits it anyway.
No, not at all. Chariot moving at all isn't even considered in the slightest, the calcer himself mentions at the end.
The calc is quite literally just the swing.
The swing we know happens when he's almost at the coin, no zoom out is going to change this. Have you not realized that the sword would HAVE TO BE SEEN as it's literally on the same layer of depth as both the HM and coin by virtue of hitting the ******? If the sword isnt there in panel 1, it means the slash had yet to begin, couple that with Pol literally saying when the slash begins.
Put 2 and 2 together.
You seemingly disproved your own point right about here
"If he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost." - implying (correctly) that Polnareff yelled "Now" and Silver Chariot activated after Hanged Man had started movingHow?
Polnareff can follow Hanged Man with his eyes - especially when Hanged Man has limited choices of reflective surfaces. This was explicitly shown beforeIt's simple, Pol can't even follow HM with his eyes yet you assume he waited for HM to almost reach the coin, despite supposedly not being able to follow the stand at all just because of a panel where SC isn't even supposed to be seen.
SC isn't show until after the it completed his cut, we never see the sword while HM is moving.
The thing isn't said to be just a bit faster than Pol, nor is there any indication of SC being 300 times faster than his user.
But that didn't happen in the manga, Chariot never placed itself between coin and beam, he cut HM from the side, therefore non canon and useless.
Then how does that work with the coin being higher in the next panel and why do you think it looks much farther from the viewer despite the vagrant not changing distance at all?
See above, rather.The only way that makes sense is if the coin is actually supposed to move between panels, which we know it doesn't.
Simply the panel is too inconsistent to try and get a correct distance and depth scalling.
Again that's your interpretation, the whole HM travel and the dialogue are in the same panel.
It's simple, Pol can't even follow HM with his eyes yet you assume he waited for HM to almost reach the coin, despite supposedly not being able to follow the stand at all just because of a panel where SC isn't even supposed to be seen.
"If he said now before HM started moving SC would miss the timing and they would have lost." - implying (correctly) that Polnareff yelled "Now" and Silver Chariot activated after Hanged Man had started moving
Polnareff can follow Hanged Man with his eyes - especially when Hanged Man has limited choices of reflective surfaces. This was explicitly shown before
No, I said if he ordered the attack before HM even moved from the Vagrant's eye he would miss, that doesn't mean he waited until it was close to the coin to attack.
He can't follow it from surface to surface following the flash of light after it reaches the target, he explicitly can't see HM itself
re you dense? That isn't what I said, you know what DOES happen in every adaption? HM begins moving, almost reaches the coin, Chariot then beats it to the coin, proceeds to slash it, all before he can cover that last bit of distance. THIS is what happens in every adaption.
"it looks much farther". Even though I'm giving you the math, it's 31px in panel 1, 67 in panel 2. Using the angsizing formula its about 6cm of change. The man was already cut off in the first panel. You're actually arguing for a ZOOM IN here, you realize that right?
Also you're right, he says it's just faster than what someone could normally see. I'd say Chariot pulling off feats showing it to be 300times faster than its user would be evidence to say it's 300x faster than its user. Kinda basic shit here dude.
We literally ******* SEE how far HM is when he says it, the spoken dialogue happens when HM is at a certain point, the dialogue in question is explicitly about when Chariot begins his attack. THEREFORE Chariot begins his attack when HM is that far away from the coin, not ******* before and sure as hell not when the man closes his eyes as that was the panel prior and **** all was said in that panel. And oh, wait, look at that, the anime has the exclamation be said when HM was near the coin too, kinda exactly like it was shown. The only interpretation here is yours, except i wouldn't even go as far to call yours an interpretation, doing so would imply there's something to interpret, rather it's more along the lines of blatant misinformation and ignorance.
Except that time he literally followed HM with his eyes but let's ignore that. Oh he isnt "supposed to be seen", you know this how? You don't. And it doesnt matter, the fact is he LITERALLY CAN NOT BE THERE. It is ******* IMPOSSIBLE. Either he was already there and slashing and we'd at the very least see the sword because the sword and HM and the coin are on the same layer of depth as the sword nearly bisects HM, OR, we dont see the sword at all anywhere on the panel despite HM being close to the coin, which tells us Chariot had yet to slash and the exclamation further confirms it. This isn't even an argument, like holy shit am I being punked right now?