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Koichi says he got overpowered, not blitzed or anything and at his house he wasnt low on power like with Okuyasu
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Let's slow down a little (JJBA speed downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
- Start date
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Being surpassed in punching speed is a way to be overpowered.
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No....
He was just physically more powerful, overpowered doesnt imply speed, let alone he still was able to react and rush with him, if speed was the issue Crazy Diamond should have been blitzed before exchanging blows, the only issue was when he didnt knew where he attacks from aka blind spots attacks
He was just physically more powerful, overpowered doesnt imply speed, let alone he still was able to react and rush with him, if speed was the issue Crazy Diamond should have been blitzed before exchanging blows, the only issue was when he didnt knew where he attacks from aka blind spots attacks
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Overpowered in the context of a fight simply means you are on the loosing end. Even if you where right, RHCP being stronger doesn't mean it also isn't faster which it proved by blitzing Josuke.
-They fight in Josuke's house, RHCP underestimates Josuke and gets tagged, then gets serious and blitz and overpower CD.
-They fight in the docs, RHCP completely blitzes Josuke and CD by moving them 180° without them noticing, then potshots from the ground while also easily dodging all attemps to counterpunch him, then Josuke taggs RHCP by knowing where it was going to be. RHCP uses full power and goes into a fist fight with CD, dodging everything and sending CD flying.
CD never hits serious RHCP if Josuke doesn't previously know where it's going to be.
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If it was a blitz CD shouldnt be able to even go in a rush clash at all to begin with, that moment could have been RHCP straight out punch him into a truck instead of ending up in a clash
You have nothing suggesting overpowered = blitz, and overpowered isnt meant to say for speed, is mainly meant for physical contest
You have nothing suggesting overpowered = blitz, and overpowered isnt meant to say for speed, is mainly meant for physical contest
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Why not? they got into a clash and CD couln't land any attack and was send flying, which goes in line with RHCP blitzing him in a weaker state.
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RHCP didnt blitz him, he used the wires around to go randomly and attack him from blind spots, dont act like he isnt untouchable at all, also neither he landed anything on him in the clash as far as its seen, only after its ended and we see him punched in the face its evident
And again CD responded to him coming to attack when amped up, could have just hit him in the face from the get go
And again CD responded to him coming to attack when amped up, could have just hit him in the face from the get go
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Except it totally did, Josuke didn't even realize he was moved by RHCP, and we see CD trow a punch, RHCP dodges and repeatedly punches CD, which is the same thing it did back in Josuke's house.
Yeah CD responded but was surpassed in speed and power, that fist fight was to again make it unambiguously clear that RHCP was faster and stronger than CD as it had already been shown.
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can i bump this
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That was technically a bump, so I guess so.
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bump
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Quite a bit still.
Don't know about the others here, but I'll get the thread going again so we can finish this shit as soon as the other threads I'm helping with are done.
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Okay.
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
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Okay, I read the whole thread. Your whole argument was "lol it's more consistent". Consistency means dogshit here. There was a clear statement of it him being slower, it's all that matters. The fact that him outflying hanged man was shown in each version is just trying to follow the manga very precisely. Being 1000 times faster means that he didn't need to force him into any direction at all. Your honestly putting fan calculations over common sense here.
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please stop already
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I'm putting 4/5 feats (From this character alone), scaling to characters with their own FTL statements and feats, another statement, so on and so forth, over a single statement that doesn't even inherently apply to the Stand itself but rather the user but yeah, the fact it's actually consistent helps too.
And in regards to consistency, yes, actually, we do take consistency over statements depending on how much there's going for it.
What's next? Sub lightspeed Dragon Ball Z because of Dyspo? Subsonic Pokemon because of Dex statements? If you truly believe that type of shit, be my guest and go ahead and try and downgrade other verses because of a statement that's consistently contradicted by feats.
Yes, the fact he's shown in every version outflying the hanged man is them just trying to be accurate and precise to what actually occurred. Glad you agree.
1000 times? Don't pull numbers out of your ass thank you, and secondly, as said, there's far more reasoning then just that as to why he couldn't hit him, and it wasn't even the Stand that had an issue doing so, insinuating that it was the Stand and not Pol is extrapolation. And that's ignoring he has more feats later on, one of which is deflecting 4 lightspeed lasers simultaneously. Ie, deflecting effectively 4 hanged man at once, casually. And a statement saying the Stand was slower? Doesn't actually exist, at all, there's a line saying Pol has trouble keeping up with that shit, but I don't recall a line saying "wow this is faster than my Stand!" (especially given Chariot's caveat in utility) and then cue hanged man not being faster than the stand, onscreen, for all to see.
This entire wiki is built upon calculations dude, and sometimes, feats take precedence over statements depending on how consistent the line is, how many feats there are, and so on. Here's an example, 10,000HP Megaman despite having feats of lifting giant metal castles and scaling to planet level, guess which we use? it's not a matter of common sense because that's not what the calculations are taking precedent over, the calc is taking precedent over a singular flimsy as **** statement that can't even stay consistent within the very arc it was said in, let alone the rest of the part as a whole, let alone other parts the Stand scales off supported by various other feats that contradict the line even further.
I'm sure you like most are a fan of DBZ, so, If, for example, a line came out that said Frieza couldn't even destroy a planet, do you seriously think we'd accept it and act like that line suddenly means more than the feats and the like? No, that line can go **** itself because there's no way in hell the dude who's literally busted planets on screen and scales off characters who can bust planets is no longer planet level, regardless of if it was said or not. Same here, the Stand that has consistently tagged light, outsped light, blitzed light, deflected light and scales to multiple characters who are FTL themselves or have FTL feats, isnt suddenly not FTL anymore because a single line that is faulty as all hell as is within the arc it's said, said that his user has trouble keeping up with the HM.
The only argument? That's blatantly bullshit. The only argument is the final scene? Reminder there's like over half a dozen other feats that are FTL-FTL+, and even more that are FTL, hell at least one of the FTL+ feats would upscale at the very least SP into MFTL. Are you really so desperate as to say "well it's exaggerated art?". That's not a real argument. Ok, so tell me, what's exaggerated about it? That was rhetorical, don't answer that, the art doesn't matter here (ignoring the fact this scene is one of many that is just drawn normally for the most part), what matters is the sequence of events and lo and behold, it's the exact same shit across every single adaption and the manga itself.
Now, unless you want to actually bring some new information that hasn't been said and regurgitated like a good fifty times (you haven't fyi), continue the Part 4 or Part 6 discussion that was happening here or wait till I actually have some free time to initiate some actual worth while discussion because you're bringing absolutely nothing new to the table here and it was already agreed upon to drop this topic for the time being in favor of other shit.
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This examples are have nothing to do with what I said. For instance, Frieza being said to not be able to bust a planet is an entirely different issue. Here, the statement contradicting the feat happened in the fight itself. Polnareff not just stated he was too slow, the entire fight was based on it, the whole plan, And then you make them MFTL based on a single scan at the end.
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By the way Chariot, I'll be abusing these points. These are good as hell.
Where did Polnareff say he was too slow?
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@KingTempest; here.
"I don't know how, but he can move at almost the speed of light... Normally there's no way I could hit him." - Polnareff
And here.
"A Stand of light, too fast to hit with my sword." - Polnareff
So that's not just one statement, but two statements.
"I don't know how, but he can move at almost the speed of light... Normally there's no way I could hit him." - Polnareff
And here.
"A Stand of light, too fast to hit with my sword." - Polnareff
So that's not just one statement, but two statements.
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Holy shit you're dense. It's quite literally the same thing here, Chariot was FTL+ before the arc even happened and he has FTL+ feats after the fight happened, so it's the same situation as the hypothetical.
The statement is ******* wrong and isn't even inherently about the Stand itself as said like a good forty times but go ahead and ignore that.
The entire fight? Reminder that the fight was 6 chapters long, this facet of it wasn't even relevant for more than a chapter.
the whole plan and reasoning? Far more to it then that dude, as said in the source material as well?
Make them MFTL off a single scan?
No I'm saying the line is inherently flawed because Chariot either does by his own hand or scales to no less than 8 things that would make him FTL+ to MFTL, the fact the MFTL feat is done by he himself in that very arc doesn't matter, because even without it, the line is bullshit. You going to ignore that Chariot has other FTL+ feats? Or that he scales to characters that have FTL+ feats? Because that's what you're doing, you're acting like this feat is the only thing putting him above Hanged Man, news flash, it aint, not even close to all he has going for him.
Now, as said, unless you want to bring something actually new to the table (you aren't and it's getting annoying), go back to discussing the part 4 or 6 shit as previously agreed upon because I don't have time to argue this shit with you for the next 100 posts and I'm sure nobody else wants to deal with that shit either right now.
He actually does insinuate that HM is fast for him, but even taken at face value, that wouldn't effect his Stand that's supposed to be a fuckton faster than him, has some weird ass sense caveat and consistently tags and outspeeds HM and HM-esque things quite often. But even then, it's a tad sus even regarding Pol being to slow as Pol has reacted to other sol things as well.
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@KingTempest; I updated my post with a second quote too.
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Polnareff said he's too slow here. https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20200504100810&path-prefix=fr
And Chariot, you keep talking about PIS, but maybe the MFTL feat you're talking about is? What would you say is PIS, the whole fight, Polnareff's statement and him making a plan to catch HM based on not being fast enough or one scan of him flying faster than HM?
And Chariot, you keep talking about PIS, but maybe the MFTL feat you're talking about is? What would you say is PIS, the whole fight, Polnareff's statement and him making a plan to catch HM based on not being fast enough or one scan of him flying faster than HM?
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Here's the latest translation.
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Aren't these things that we normally just assume as being the speed of light, like the Sun's lasers?
Translated by who? The one I linked is the official Jojonium volumes.
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I think I mentioned PIS like twice thank you.
The whole fight? Again, you mean 1.3/6th of the fight.
The one scan of him being faster than Hanged Man? Maybe you missed it the first four dozen times but that's quite literally NOT THE ONLY ******* FEAT HE HAS. Holy ******* shit are you being this dense on purpose? There's no ******* way you read the whole thread and went "yeah this is the singular scene that outs Chariot above Hanged Man and absolutely nothing else".
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I literally posted scans earlier in the thread about the sun, but not what I was inherently referring to. But sure, The Sun's lasers are most certainly sol.
The same people who went and translated every single part in color? The JoJonium volumes (eng), no offense, are kinda shit overall (I say this owning every single one, they've literally just become dust collectors on a shelf, they look nice but that's about it), actually, I'd just go ahead and say Viz in general is a tad sus in regards to translations, most official eng jojo translations are, even ignoring the whole naming issues, the anime in particular is ******* awful. i'd unironically put bracketier and others above them in accuracy and faithfulness.
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Rikimarox2
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Why are they shit btw? Do they have a bad history or smth?
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No offense taken. I dislike Viz quite a lot. I was just pointing out that they are the official English translator, but as always accuracy is what is most important.
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I'd say so. Especially in regards to DBZ's manga, I remember buying a set and some of it was just whack as shit . But the jojo ones are kinda sus too. A lot of the lines are translated or worded just, oddly, or completely different for some reason, same meaning gets across but the structure and wording is different, though some things simply dont make sense (anime especially as said, but manga=/=anime).
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I'd say so. Especially in regards to DBZ's manga, I remember buying a set and some of it was just . But the jojo ones are kinda sus too. A lot of the lines are translated or worded just, oddly, or completely different for some reason, same meaning gets across but the structure and wording is different, though some things simply dont make sense (anime especially as said, but manga=/=anime).
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Anyway, can we not go back to square one and have a ******* repeat of the last four pages, you people were getting somewhere with Part 4 and 6, continue that shit for the time being.
I have some scans saved to my phone that may be worthwhile in regards to Part 4 from outside sources. I'll post them later when I have some extra time (probably after 5pm).
I have some scans saved to my phone that may be worthwhile in regards to Part 4 from outside sources. I'll post them later when I have some extra time (probably after 5pm).
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Even using the colored JJBA translations though, we have Polnareff saying this line.
This is the crux of the issue; Polnareff explains his feat quite clearly; he cannot keep up with the speed of light ordinarily so he slashed along the only path that Hanged Man could take, which is what allows him to strike Hanged Man. Now sure, we calc this kind of feat based on our assumptions of Chariot's movement, but to accept an MFTL result would mean for us to ignore the context of the fight which is that Polnareff cannot keep up with the speed of light ordinarily.
I know you're sick to death of discussing this, but try to look at it from other people's perspective as well. Just as you don't like us ignoring the calc, we don't like ignoring Polnareff's words here.
And yes, I would like to continue discussing Part 4 + 6.
This is the crux of the issue; Polnareff explains his feat quite clearly; he cannot keep up with the speed of light ordinarily so he slashed along the only path that Hanged Man could take, which is what allows him to strike Hanged Man. Now sure, we calc this kind of feat based on our assumptions of Chariot's movement, but to accept an MFTL result would mean for us to ignore the context of the fight which is that Polnareff cannot keep up with the speed of light ordinarily.
I know you're sick to death of discussing this, but try to look at it from other people's perspective as well. Just as you don't like us ignoring the calc, we don't like ignoring Polnareff's words here.
And yes, I would like to continue discussing Part 4 + 6.
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What is there to discuss about Part 4 + 6? (Btw, I just finished Part 6 2 weeks ago)
Part 4, everybody except Star Platinum is under LS because of RHCP.
Part 6, scaling to Jotaro and Whitesnake?
Part 4, everybody except Star Platinum is under LS because of RHCP.
Part 6, scaling to Jotaro and Whitesnake?
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I know he has other SoL feats. This has nothing to do with this one.
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I take these "they can't be this speed because this person is the fastest in the show and they're only this" counters with a grain of salt.
Yes, the Kizarus, the Patollis, the Garchomps, the Dyspos, all of that. This doesn't have to be replied to btw.
@Da_Lunge_Fish We can't shut down feats because of statements. I'm almost 1000% sure that's the opposite of the way that the fandom goes. They would've said the same thing against the Sun's rays, which were confirmed to be lasers by someone who dealt with lasers.
If you have multiple speed of light feats, one bs statement with many different perspectives on it isn't gonna stop it.
Yes, the Kizarus, the Patollis, the Garchomps, the Dyspos, all of that. This doesn't have to be replied to btw.
@Da_Lunge_Fish We can't shut down feats because of statements. I'm almost 1000% sure that's the opposite of the way that the fandom goes. They would've said the same thing against the Sun's rays, which were confirmed to be lasers by someone who dealt with lasers.
If you have multiple speed of light feats, one bs statement with many different perspectives on it isn't gonna stop it.
Anyways, both Damage and Chariot agreed that we should move on.
Is this how we're going to go with it?
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I think it's best to discuss the possibility of downgrading the top speed at some other time.
With the one active crt per verse at rule, it's pretty unfair to bloat a thread up like this
With the one active crt per verse at rule, it's pretty unfair to bloat a thread up like this
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Ok.
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