Larcade Dragneel downgrade

[Soldier_Blue]

I re-read the previous couple of chapters of Fairy Tail. Larcade does not explicitly state that he is comparable to August and Irene. All he says is that he, August, Irene are somehow special. When I created his profile, I rated him as 7-A via scaling from August and Irene. However, based on how he was knocked back by base Sting of all people (albeit he was completely uninjured) and there being no proof whatsoever that he is in the same league as August & Irene plus Brandish stating that Irene is the only other Spriggan on August's level, I propose to downgrade him to 7-B and up him to 7-A only if he actually shows feats of such a level or takes on an opponent we know for sure is mountain level.


Proposed change:

Tier: At least 7-B, likely higher

Attack Potency: At least City level, likely higher (Superior to the other Spriggans bar August and Irene. Effortlessly defeated Kagura Mikazuchi)

Striking Strength: Class PJ

Durability: At least City level, likely higher (Casually parried Kagura Mikazuchi's sword strikes with his bare hands)

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Reasonable.

 

[Delta3000]

I agree with you; he likely isn't as strong as Irene and August given that his magic bypasses durability; which might be what he meant when he said he was in the special trio ie he doesn't have to be as strong as them.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I also propose the following additions to his powers and abilities:

Hunger inducing (can inflict great hunger on a target and make them perceive allies around them as food which leads to his targets devouring each other), sleep inducing (possesses the ability to put a target into such a deep slumber that they pass away)

 

[-BANLK-]

I agree with these changes.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Can I go ahead and make the changes or should we wait for more input?

 

[Panemorfos]

I think that, for now, no changes should be made. Let's see what the outcome of the fight will be, since, downgrading Larcade to 7B, is not in line with his portrayal in the manga as of now, given Zeref's and his own satements.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

So what are you suggesting? Wait for next week's chapter and downgrade him if dual element mode Sting actually pressures him but if Larcade still kicks his ass handily, keep him where he is?

 

[OishiLover75]

Next week's chapter has already arrived.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Next week's chapter has already arrived.

Yeah chapter 511 is out.

 

[OishiLover75]

Was that the chapter you were suggesting to wait for?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Was that the chapter you were suggesting to wait for?

No I was talking about waiting for 512. Chapter 511 released today which is early.

 

[Panemorfos]

I am suggesting that for now, there is no reason for Larcade to be downgraded. I will explaing myself. Larcade has a lot of hype behind him, being able to even defeat Acnologia and his feats don't show ussomething different. Yes, he might not be able to beat a serious Acnologia, but as of now, he has fodderized many Fairy Tail members with his magic (not an AP showing) and Kagura in physical combat and Kagyra is on par with Erza, or slightly less skilled. Kagura is rated as 7B, which is a click below your standard Spriggan. Larcade, Irene and August are by statements and feats way above the likes of God Serena and Ajeel. It's just how the author has written these 3. Also, Larcade hasn't shown all that he is capable of.

Now, coming to Sting. This guy is a weird case, because despite all his hype, he was fodderized in DF along with his buddy Rogue, by base Natsu back in the GMG. But, this battle was full of PIS, made just to showcase that the power of love (which is a legit power in Fairy Tail), trumps all. After, that fight however, he has grown much stronger and seeing how he fared better against Larcade than Kagura, he should be upgraded to at least City level in base form. His stats in his page are outdated as of now. He can't be 8A, which is even lower than Wendy. Now, about his new mode, we have to wait and see. Logic dicatets that he should be above his base self.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Panemorfos

I just checked Sting's profile. Why is he city block level? Sting should not be weaker than the likes of Wendy, Juvia, Sherria who are rated at 8-A. In fact, he's likely superior them even in base. Ditto for Rogue since he is roughly equal to Sting.

As for base Sting being city level. I don't know. I highly doubt it. It was possibly outlier/PIS given how Sting and Rogue both got their asses absolutely handed to them by Bradman who is a lot weaker than Larcade. Furthermore, Rogue struggled against Historia Bradman who is a lot weaker than alive Bradman. And Sting is roughly equal to Rogue. But dual element mode Sting being city level is highly possible.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Sting being that Wendy during that Arc is not weird, at all.


Currently, Rogue proved to be able to fight (insert name that I don't remember) who matched Gajeel, so 7-B for current Sting and Rogue wouldn't be so bad.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Currently, Rogue proved to be able to fight (insert name that I don't remember) who matched Gajeel, so 7-B for current Sting and Rogue wouldn't be so bad.

We learnt that the Historias are greatly nerfed compared to the originals and we have panels of Rogue struggling against even nerfed Bradman. And it wasn't even him who brought down Historia Bradman in the end but either Natsu (via defeating Neinhart) or Makarov (via Fairy Law).

However, current Sting and Rogue should be at least small town level in base via scaling from Wendy/Juvia/Meredy (they should be superior to them) and at least small city level in dragon force since they are likely superior to Wendy in this state as well if not at least comparable.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I'll later made a thread make upgrades for Wendy Juvia and others, but for now, that's ok.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Upgrades for Wendy and Juvia? I think they're fine where they're at.

 

[Panemorfos]

@Soldier Blue

I didn't bring up the fight between Sting and the rest of Sabretooth vs Bradman, Irene, Larcade and their forces for a few reasons: first, we don't know what exactly transpired in this fight and how they were beaten. Facing many thousands of soldiers could have tired them and they were just finished off by Bradman, for all we know. Second, i think that if any of Stings fights are PIS in this arc, is the fight between Sabretooth and Alvarez and it's olny purpose was to have the Gajeel vs Bradman and Gajeel's moment with Levy. In my opinion it's the same thing that happened back in ToH arc. Natsu was beaten by Fukuro, while Gray managed to beat Fukuro, when the latter was empowered by Natsu's magic. Powerscaling-wise, that should have put Gray above Natsu, but it turned out that Natsu was strongerthann Gray. The same thing happened again when Natsu fought Urtear in Tenrou. Natsu couldn't beat her, while Gray did(although Ultear was sentimental during the fight). Last reason is that in my opinion, Spriggans are not rated well here. All of them being ranked as 7B doesn'tt seem right to me. Low 7A would be more like it, especially when you have feats like Brandish shrinking islands without even sweating a little or God Serena godstomping the gods of Ishgar+Jura.

I tend to view Fairy Tail the way i view Saint Seiya when it comes to powerscaling. In both series, the characters become stronger when the plot demands it. This leads to numerous moments when the protagonists get their asses handed to them by low tier enemies and the next moment they beat the shit out of a high tier character.

So, imo, Sting should be upgraded to the same level as current Erza, while Larcade remains at 7A for now.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with if you wish to upgrade Sting.

Larcade could effortlessly tank Kagura's sword strikes with a finger, stated that he is comparable to August, greatly affected Irene, and Zeref claimed that he is a potential threat to Acnologia, so I think that he is probably fine where he is.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

But the Brandish thing is pure hax and can't be properly quantified. She is already rated at city level in terms of AP and island level in DC via hax.

Jura is at best small city level and the Gods of Ishgar are just a step above him with Warrod explicitly stating his physical weaknesses. A city level character stomping four characters at small city level is not that odd.

And I don't understand your reasoning for 7-A Spriggans when they have no legit AP showings in 7-A at all. All we have is one island thing which is hax and thus does not scale to other people and one environmental DC feat with no legit 7-A AP feats from any of them.

^ I am talking about the nine weaker Spriggans of course.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Antvasima

Okay then. Thanks for your input.

 

[Antvasima]

Do you need Sting's and Rogue's pages unlocked?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Before you unlock those pages, let's confirm their new stats.


For X791 (after the first time-skip):

Multi-city-block in base

Reasoning: Should not be weaker than the likes of Wendy, Sherria, Juvia.

At least small town in Dragon Force

Reasoning: Could injure holding back Natsu & Gajeel. Natsu & Gajeel even noted that his attacks "pack quite a punch". Scaling from Wendy.


For X792 (after the second time-skip):

Small town or small city in base?

Reasoning for small town: Should not be weaker than the likes of Wendy, Sherria, Juvia.

Reasoning for small city: Rogue briefly contended with Historia Bradman who was noted to be much weaker than the original. Sting is comparable to him. Sting managed to push back Larcade Dragneel several metres with his strongest spell (Holy Nova). He even appeared to cause him some pain but this could be PIS/outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that should be fine.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I actually may upgrade Jura, but due to study, thise and others upgrades most wait.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Help is always appreciated.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I disagree with MCB base sting for Pre TS


Even his DF lose badly to Base Natsu even with Rogue's help

 

[AidenBrooks999]

However, Sting and Rogue somehow managed to get an upgrade for Tartarus Arc, they held their own againts Mard and against a Demon Enhanced Jenma, who was able to take hits from Base Natsu


So I can agree with Low 7-C Base Tartarus Arc Sting and Rogue. For now, 7-B should be reasonable if you ask me, since Rogue also showed to be able to fight on levels close to Minerva, so Likely 7-B should be ok (Also, minerva should be upgraded to 7-B for now

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So, please, put his stats were they wete before, and add keys for Tartarus and "Post Timeskip", since they didn't have the previous one (Or I'll do it)

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I was updating Rogue's stats to what I updated Sting's to as we speak. Damn it.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Well, at least you can start with Rogue, adding the keys and changes that I suggested, while I do the same with Sting

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Can you do the changes @AidenBrooks999? I'm getting tired right now and retiring for the night. And I won't be free tomorrow.