Lady of Pain 2A key

[Mr. Bambu]

Show proof?

Because he just seems to not want to. I don't doubt Void Manip, but nothing in that text says Lady did it.

 

[Udlmaster]

https://imgur.com/AO4in6Y

The quote about him being unable to restore them. (He also stats that "It is better to lose your hands then to not exist at all" implying that the Lady could have done that to him and he's lucky for it.)

https://imgur.com/EbAXb06

The Lady did remove his hands.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...huh.

Alright. Assuming this book is canon to LoP, then that'd make sense.

 

[Udlmaster]

Oh yeah, this book is VERY cannon, it's called "Pages of Pain"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_Pain#Creative_origins

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I know what it is. Was it licensed by WotC though?

Also it seems... it was a very deliberate choice to have Lady speak as the narrator despite also speaking to the characters in the same way. This does make me further buy into the whole argument for Plot Manipulation.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, the Lady should have Memory Manipulation via being able to recreate the River of Lethe which, when a person drinks from it's waters, they forget everything. (Apparently it's as deep as the Abyss as well.)

https://imgur.com/OljC9fe

Also, proof that it's in her Maze:

https://imgur.com/kIco1X2

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Technically, due to changing the edition, she should have every 3rd edition spell as a power as well

 

[Udlmaster]

I mean, maybe??????

Like, I'm not sure, it's possible that all on that level have access to all spells?

Like, it makes sense? (Ao literally has access to all Domains and the LoP casually slaps a "You're all changed now, deal with it" sign on Ao and the rest of the Gods)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes to memory manipulation, no to having every spell unless we have a reason to assume that.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yes, I agree with Mr.Bambu for now, if we get some information on, then I'll switch to agreeing.

Also, I was thinking about it, we could add the "Superspace" feat to Lumi, as this adds further evidence of Infinite Dimensions for him besides 1 statement.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Technically, due to changing the edition, she should have every 3rd edition spell as a power as well

She didn't do it on purpose though. By the time she began to repair it, Vecna had already started to permantly change the Multiverse structure. Also it seems that the LOP either doesn't use or doesn't know any spells in the first place, but relies on her raw power to get things done.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Qawsedf234]

As of now: Adding some powers, revising some powers, giving her a different intelligence rating, and changing her High 2-A justification

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That should probably be fine.

 

[Udlmaster]

Actually, I was wondering, couldn't it be that the Greater Gods may survive the destruction of the Verse? Because the "becoming the Overdeity" thing really confused me in context, as not everything dies with the Verse, so, what if it's only the person who destroyed the Multiverse becomes the next Overdeity? Because it's not like Vecna's the only one who survives, The Serpent, Ao, LoP and Lumia all casually survive, so what if the other Gods do in fact surivive but cannot do anything about it?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Of course they survive because Serpent/Ao are both comparable to Lady and Lumi transcends the verse. No evidence of the Greater Gods having the same regenerative ability.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also Vecna is already a Rank 20 Greater Deity, so shouldn't Greater Deity's actually be given High-Godly regen?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why? This regards only Vecna supported by The Serpent which put him at 2-A. He isn't just a normal greater god.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Vecna doesn't kill the Gods by reordering the Multiverse, it's just that his plan entails that he becomes an Overgod and therefore transcends their power to such a degree they cannot hope to fight him. Also unlike Ao and Highgod, Overgod Vecna would no have any sphere limits. Making him the strongest being that isn't above the Dimensional Vortex.

> Also Vecna is already a Rank 20 Greater Deity

What implies this?

> This regards only Vecna supported by The Serpent which put him at 2-A. He isn't just a normal greater god.

The Serpent gave Vecna a bunch of information and epic spells, but he didn't directly amp Vecna.

 

[Udlmaster]

While not a normal Greater God from the arguments we've done before, I believe it was Qa who made the argument about it just being Vecna being a really Powerful Greater God and not that the Serpent was giving him power;

Here we go I found some of it:

"The serpent gave Vecna a special spell that let him skip the standard steps of divine ascension, but he didn't directly empower Vecna. Vecna resisted her because he was a newly ascended Greater God and his power was at its theoretical maximum"

"He didn't directly increase his power, just assissted him in getting acess to the spell. Throughout the Adventure itself it always mentions Vecna's waxing power which is allowing him to stop the LOP from removing him from the Sigil, not the Serpent increasing his strength."

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2125716

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh now I see what you meant by rank 20 Greater God. My bad.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, the theoretical max for a Greater God is Rank 20, 21+ is considered Overdeity.

 

[Udlmaster]

So, going off what Qa has said, and with the implication that Greater Gods can survive the destruction of the Multiverse, although It's doubtful the others (Other level of Gods, Lesser and Intermidate) can nothing implies they can, should we add High Godly to the Greater Deities' profiles?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't think its Greater Gods, just gods in general

 

[Udlmaster]

Oh, so you think the all Gods should be given High-Godly Regenerationn? (To be honest, that would make editing all the profiles much easier, looking at you Wee Jas with your Well of BS)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't see the point. You're saying that the absolute strongest Greater God could in theory survive it, as in, Rank 20, and proposing we downscale it to everyone else? That doesn't make sense.

Gods with Rank 20... maybe. Even then I'm unsure as it isn't clear that Serpent didn't do other things.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, I only found 1 quote saying "it provides magical might" but that could just mean he's the source of Vecna's power which is pretty null as Wizards draw power from the Serpent anyway as he's the Concept of Magic itself.

Besides that 1 quote, nothing else really suggests it to my knowledge.

Also, there's nothing really saying that the Gods die, just the Players do and Vecna wins (Or loses)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well. There's a difference between drawing from Serpent and getting the power supplied to you from the source itself.

What suggests it is the differences between Vecna and all other magic users.

And... true? But there's nothing saying they don't die. That's like saying a verse should be considered higher dimensional until proven otherwise.

 

[Udlmaster]

No, no, not what I mean, I mean, We know Vecna is a waxing Greater God by that point, that's how he got through Sigil's defences (Waxing like the moon, transitioning). Now we know that Vecna can survive and we know that he's basically a Peak Greater Deity.

But in the verse, the status of "Lesser" to "Greater" can be defined by power, but can also just be defined by Followers/ How many beings worship you, see Baphumat and his "Avatar" which is a Greater God while he's a Lesser God (Logic, Hasbro, Logic).

 

[Udlmaster]

So, I believe Qa is on board, Bambu, what about you? (I do value your opinion ^_^)

Zach, if you're here, what do you think as well?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm 100% against giving all greater deities High-Godly based purely on Vecna, who was the peak form of a Greater Deity.

 

[Udlmaster]

So far it's

For: Udlmaster, Qawsedf234

Against: Mr.Bambu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes. As for other abilities, those are fine by me.

 

[Udlmaster]

I think we should, for now, give it only to the Greater Gods, as they are the only ones how have a argument for High-Godly.

 

[Udlmaster]

Would that be a better compremise?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's better than outright giving it to all gods, but no. The only argument is that gods able to achieve Divine Rank 20 might get it.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, all Greater Gods from Rank 16 to 20 have the exact same set of powers, just the higher ranked ones are just slightly stronger.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Actually no. At least, not entirely. Divine Rank 20 in unquie in a few aspects, only Gods worshipped as monothestic can achive it normally and they gain a massive profilo boost. As an example someone like Zeus, Boccob, or Gruumsh all have like 3 domains they control. A rank 20 has 15 to 18 iirc. Meaning not only do they have even more spells to draw from they have theortically the most broken pre-cog.

As of now there's only like, 2 or 3 Gods that would fall into Rank 20 and one was a temp thing.

 

[Udlmaster]

What about Wee Jas? Since she constantly contests with Boccob for control of his Domains.

Also, Wee Jas has 6 different domains to which she controls?

Death, Domination, Inquisition, Law, Magic, Mind, Repose

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wee Jas has access to more domains by giving up some of her feats (or power in universe) to exhibit control over them. Rank 20 Gods just gets 12 freebies.