Knull Low 1-C upgrade

[RaveeCPN]

That is just multilocation via all symbiotes, not true omnipresence.

Even if we can't say it's True Omnipresence (and I agree that it's not True Omnipresence), I think we can still say it's Nigh-Omnipresence, because in the scan, Venom doesn't say he's doing it via symbiotes. And I don't remember anything like that being said anywhere.

 

[Antvasima]

Thor enhanced Jarnborn on his own for 30 seconds. The Sentry plowed through them. And a giant Iron Man armor and the Ghost Rider were also able to fight them efficiently.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

Thor enhanced Jarnborn on his own for 30 seconds. The Sentry plowed through them. And a giant Iron Man armor and the Ghost Rider were also able to fight them efficiently.

When Thor single-shot, he was empowered with odinforce(odin magic) so it was stronger than he was. Ghost Rider just checked it was also an aspirant(dark celestial) not a normal celestial.Sentry just pierced his armor anyway that celestial had been killed by Knull before, confirmed in this series.

 

[Antvasima]

No, Thor enhanced the Jarnborn axe before he was even powered up by being allowed to wield Mjolnir, and other characters could kill Celestials with it as well.

It was not an aspirant, just a regular one that had been infected by disease.

The Sentry effortlessly plowed right through the Celestial in question, and as far as we know, it did not lose almost all of its power due to being controlled by Knull's symbiotes.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

No, Thor enhanced the Jarnborn axe before he was even powered up by being allowed to wield Mjolnir, and other characters could kill Celestials with it as well.

It was not an aspirant, just a regular one that had been infected by disease.

The Sentry effortlessly plowed right through the Celestial in question, and as far as we know, it did not lose almost all of its power due to being controlled by Knull's symbiotes.

The reason he killed Celestials was because he was empowered with odinforce. Also, the celestial that the sentry passed through was a dead celestial, as I said before. I will send scans soon

 

[Antvasima]

No, the Rick Remender Kang storyline that I am referring to did not involve the Odinforce. Thor did not have it back then.

And I do not think that it would matter that Knull controlled the Celestial at the time, at least not overly so.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

No, the Rick Remender Kang storyline that I am referring to did not involve the Odinforce. Thor did not have it back then.

And I do not think that it would matter that Knull controlled the Celestial at the time, at least not overly so.

The part I'm talking about is references from Uncanny avengers 2012 and king in black. Odin spell is generated to cut celestial armor and this is confirmed 3 times

 

[Murayefeskamus]

In this part, the weak jarnbjorn is later empowered by odin and can cut the Celestial Armor on Apoc.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

In this part, the weak jarnbjorn is later empowered by odin and can cut the Celestial Armor on Apoc.

In the continuation of this, Jarnbjorn, who is again strengthened with Odin Magic, cuts Exitar's armor and destroys it, assuming that Odin's power exceeds all space and all time.

jarnbjorn is also used to pierce Celestial Armor in King's Black Return Of The Valkyries series.

This is proof that Knull from the King in Black main event has already killed the celestials and that the celestials are unconscious

 

[Murayefeskamus]

As I said, I think it's normal for Thor to get exitar on amped up.

For sentry, I can say that it pierced a dead and unconscious celestial armor. This is pretty easy for him. they don't drop celestials but make them high because other characters are apmed.

 

[Antvasima]

It was elsewhere established that Knull has killed Celestials by using the necrosword billions of years ago, so that was likely what was referred to, not the ones he had enslaved by covering them in symbiotes.

Also, Thor was the one empowering that spell, as he was the one who cast it, not Odin.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

It was elsewhere established that Knull has killed Celestials by using the necrosword billions of years ago, so that was likely what was referred to, not the ones he had enslaved by covering them in symbiotes.

Also, Thor was the one empowering that spell, as he was the one who cast it, not Odin.

I will make a small correction. Knull only killed a single celestial billions of years ago. Here it is called Celestials, so there must be at least 2 of them, so what you say is rotting anyway. The celestials that became Knull's slaves are the celestials he had previously killed. a small "s" changes all the focus. so the celestials that appeared in the Main Event were dead.

no, thor can't develop magic, he doesn't have such power anyway. As I explained in my scans, the celestial armor on Apoc cannot be broken by Thor. That's why Odin Magic is used. Odin Magic is already in Odinforce, so it doesn't need any additional power-ups.

 

[Vasco]

•5d celestials

knull 6d states that beings are eclipsed by his power

•5d celestials

Nothing here is 5-D without additional information, simply being outside or beyond conventional space and time isn't 5-D.
You're scan didn't call Knull 6-D or say anything about his innate powers eclipsing that of the celestials.

 

[Vasco]

"they exist beyond conventional understanding of space and time"

I think this puts celestials in a hierarchy beyond the known space-time dimensions. Apart from that, the people whose powers he made fun of in the other scan are also at the M-body eternity level. so I think it might be low complex.

Isn't enough for 5-D even statement of a character itself called 5-D won't just give a character 5-D/Low 1-C tier without additional information.

In terms of speed, I think Knull is at the nigh omnipresent level because Eddie Brock, who said that Knull took his powers, said that he was omnipresent.

venom 2018 #200

ED just defined omniscient as omnipotent, that's funny. Anyways omnipresent looks good all these are from the same issue right?
Edit: Agree with Antvasima on multilocation

 

[Vasco]

Using the wrong word does not automatically qualify for the term as we define it. Sorry.

Anyway, I have very limited time available and need to close this thread very soon.

Also ED defined omniscient as omnipotent so you are more likely correct.

I want to defend the celestials thing that I said at first. According to the scan, the Celestials exist in a space transcending space-time dimensions. I think this makes them naturally at least 5 dimensional. I'll rerun the scan because your counter-argument doesn't sound very convincing.

•all new offical handbook of the marvel universe

Not enough for 5-D needs more proof.

The Sentry effortlessly plowed right through the Celestial in question, and as far as we know, it did not lose almost all of its power due to being controlled by Knull's symbiotes.

That celestial was already dead though I think in King in Black: #issue 3.

 

[Antvasima]

That celestial was already dead though I think in King in Black: #issue 3.

Okay. If it was explicitly shown, I won't argue further, but it seem uncertain if it retained its raw power or not.

Regardless, Thor empowered the Celestial-killing spell (which didn't make any sense, as even th Odinsword did not display that degree of power against the Celestials), and the power of the Hulk and the Sentry combined were also sufficient to halt the descent of Exitar to the Earth within that storyline, if I remember correctly, and giant versions of Iron Man, Thor, She-Hulk, and Ghost Rider were still able to efficiently fight Celestials in a more recent Avengers story, so my point that they have been very inconsistent remains.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

Okay. If it was explicitly shown, I won't argue further, but it seem uncertain if it retained its raw power or not.

Regardless, Thor empowered the Celestial-killing spell (which didn't make any sense, as even th Odinsword did not display that degree of power against the Celestials), and the power of the Hulk and the Sentry combined were also sufficient to halt the descent of Exitar to the Earth within that storyline, if I remember correctly, and giant versions of Iron Man, Thor, She-Hulk, and Ghost Rider were still able to efficiently fight Celestials in a more recent Avengers story, so my point that they have been very inconsistent remains.

I say again Thor didn't do any buffs. Jarnbjorn already has a unique power from Odinforce at that time. In addition, the reason why they fought the celestials for a short time in Avengers 2018 #4 was also explained.Thanks to Blood of Ymir, they got a short amped. And Odin said of this power, the only thing that could stand against the Celestials. That's why it's quite consistent to be able to go to the sea for a little while. especially for a magic weapon of uncertain power

 

[Vasco]

I say again Thor didn't do any buffs. Jarnbjorn already has a unique power from Odinforce at that time. In addition, the reason why they fought the celestials for a short time in Avengers 2018 #4 was also explained.Thanks to Blood of Ymir, they got a short amped. And Odin said of this power, the only thing that could stand against the Celestials. That's why it's quite consistent to be able to go to the sea for a little while. especially for a magic weapon of uncertain power

This should give She-hulk resistance to extreme cold, and I've always thought Thor was resistant to cold probably cause this might be more extreme. Are you proposing the Amps makes them tier 1 or is there something i am missing?

 

[Murayefeskamus]

I would like to add as an extra. The universes are formed by the dream of the celestials and Celestials has an eternal imagination. They also defeated Odin themselves. Along with Odin's destroyer armor and Odinsword. Celestials are many times stronger than cubic and beyonder (post retcon)

 

[Murayefeskamus]

This should give She-hulk resistance to extreme cold, and I've always thought Thor was resistant to cold probably cause this might be more extreme. Are you proposing the Amps makes them tier 1 or is there something i am missing?

It's obvious that he doesn't have the power at the moment. In the future, he is alive and taking part in the struggle with the celestials. Also, I definitely didn't say Tier 1. it only raises it to low 1c for a short time. true celestials linked to dreamspace which is already 1a. these low complex areas are lower dimensional manifestation bodies. I've been trying to explain this for how many days ((

 

[Antvasima]

Ymir should be nowhere near as powerful as Celestials at their peak. His blood apparently simply caused Thor and She-Hulk to grow to his size. That is all.

Anyway, I am well aware of all of the Celestials' highest feats, but my point is simply that they have been extremely inconsistent over the years and established to use avatars (formerly referred to as manifestation bodies) when interacting with lower realities, which would neatly be able to reconcile variable tiering to our wiki profile page for them. That is all.

 

[Vasco]

I would like to add as an extra. The universes are formed by the dream of the celestials and Celestials has an eternal imagination. They also defeated Odin themselves. Along with Odin's destroyer armor and Odinsword. Celestials are many times stronger than cubic and beyonder (post retcon)

Based on the profiles of this characters all these are tier 2 plus can i see proof of celestials dreaming the universe to reality?

It's obvious that he doesn't have the power at the moment. In the future, he is alive and taking part in the struggle with the celestials. Also, I definitely didn't say Tier 1. it only raises it to low 1c for a short time. true celestials linked to dreamspace which is already 1a. these low complex areas are lower dimensional manifestation bodies. I've been trying to explain this for how many days ((

Power to resist the cold? I meant Thor always has resistance to cold not just this particular book. The scans you brought to prove Low 1-C celestials to upgrade Knull none are Low 1-C.
Tier 1-A celestials is for another another thread and can you show proof of or differentiate True form of celestials and the Lower manifestation, besides celestials tier varies.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

Ymir should be nowhere near as powerful as Celestials at their peak. His blood apparently simply caused Thor and She-Hulk to grow to his size. That is all.

Anyway, I am well aware of all of the Celestials' highest feats, but my point is simply that they have been extremely inconsistent over the years and established to use avatars (formerly referred to as manifestation bodies) when interacting with lower realities, which would neatly be able to reconcile variable tiering to our wiki profile page for them. That is all.

then it can be written in Celestials profile for wiki that it should be taken between 2a and low 1a (with explanation). And there is no point in prolonging it any longer. Let's reach a consensus.

 

[Vasco]

All what you brought aren't enough For Low 1-C,

 

[Antvasima]

We will not make such a drastic overhaul based on such a messy and logically incoherent revision thread when we are already planning to revise the Celestials in another manner.

I would much prefer to close this thread now. It is unnecessarily time-consuming.

 

[Murayefeskamus]

All what you brought aren't enough For Low 1-C,

dude, for low 1c, transcending spacetime is fine. Also, I think I disproved what you said. Thor event is related to odinforce while avengers event is related to blood of ymir. You cannot put a certainty because both powers are open-ended. so there is no inconsistent situation. For the sentry event, however, they only appeared as giants covered in black slime, who were already unconscious and the celestials' strength. Also, the celestials opposite Knull were not even present in any of the events you mentioned. headless celestial and others give birth to the big bang that triggered the 7th cosmos. They also take on the dominant role that organizes and shapes the cosmos when no one is present at that point. I don't know why you still don't want to understand. They saw 4d universes as dreams and it was stated to have eternal imagination. They defeated Odin. They are said to be infinitely more powerful than kubik and post retcon beyonder. They were also referred to as metaphysical entities in their own fictions. These are all arguments that will make the 5d feat I'm talking about consistent. But if you don't agree, there's nothing we can do

 

[Murayefeskamus]

We will not make such a drastic overhaul based on such a messy and logically incoherent revision thread when we are already planning to revise the Celestials in another manner.

I would much prefer to close this thread now. It is unnecessarily time-consuming.

I honestly don't think it's unnecessary. I still have not received answers to the questions in my head. I think that what I have said is not fully corrected and delayed. for example i said knull omnipresent You said it wasn't like that either. You said it was about symbiotes. I told him it wasn't, and that issue was left hanging. likewise, most of the topics have been delayed

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This is too disorganized and messy. I would suggest you let this thread be closed, create a new one with your arguments straightened out, scans present and your understanding of them.

 

[Vasco]

dude, for low 1c, transcending spacetime is fine. Also, I think I disproved what you said. Thor event is related to odinforce while avengers event is related to blood of ymir. You cannot put a certainty because both powers are open-ended. so there is no inconsistent situation. For the sentry event, however, they only appeared as giants covered in black slime, who were already unconscious and the celestials' strength. Also, the celestials opposite Knull were not even present in any of the events you mentioned. headless celestial and others give birth to the big bang that triggered the 7th cosmos. They also take on the dominant role that organizes and shapes the cosmos when no one is present at that point. I don't know why you still don't want to understand. They saw 4d universes as dreams and it was stated to have eternal imagination. They defeated Odin. They are said to be infinitely moreasonableerful than kubik and post retcon beyonder. They were also referred to as metaphysical entities in their own fictions. These are all arguments that will make the 5d feat I'm talking about consistent. But if you don't agree, there's nothing we can do

Transcending space and time without additional information isn't Low 1-C even called 5-D alone isn't Low 1-C without additional proof. Antvasima already gave reasons why blood of ymir can't scale to celestials. And sentry case obviously he won't scale as they were already dead and controlled by symbiotes and im talking of celestials in King in Black.
Headless celestials scans aren't in the OP, I only reacted to OP and all scan you sent. You didn't drop scan of how they see 4-D universes as dreams and also a reason why Knull would scale to it besides celestials tier varies alot especially with the Avatars or M-bodies.
Nothing you brought is 5-D sorry simply being beyond space and time isn't enough according to wiki standards without additional context or proof.

 

[Antvasima]

This is too disorganized and messy. I would suggest you let this thread be closed, create a new one with your arguments straightened out, scans present and your understanding of them.

Transcending space and time without additional information isn't Low 1-C even called 5-D alone isn't Low 1-C without additional proof. Antvasima already gave reasons why blood of ymir can't scale to celestials. And sentry case obviously he won't scale as they were already dead and controlled by symbiotes and im talking of celestials in King in Black.
Headless celestials scans aren't in the OP, I only reacted to OP and all scan you sent. You didn't drop scan of how they see 4-D universes as dreams and also a reason why Knull would scale to it besides celestials tier varies alot especially with the Avatars or M-bodies.
Nothing you brought is 5-D sorry simply being beyond space and time isn't enough according to wiki standards without additional context or proof.

Thank you for helping out.

I will close this thread then.