- 40,470
- 12,953
I also COMPLETELY side with Matt's arguments here (even if there was animosity). Even if hearts are abstract, having a heart doesn't make you an abstract in the same way having a soul doesn't.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
When did anyone say solely his heart was left? The closest thing that was said was me saying that only his heart had remained at the time, one in a fractured state with his body in pieces as well.Imaginym said:I see all these people claiming Sora was in The Final World with only his Heart left, because his Body and Soul were destroyed, but....
https://youtu.be/XgtJ3E5-I_A?t=955
Chirithy brings up that Sora has died. Sora asks, "Wait, "death"?"
Chirithy: "Yes, the natural end for those whose hearts and bodies perish together."
Sora: "My heart and body perished? Um, does that mean..."
Chirithy: "Something is holding you here-refusing to let you go. You're hanging by a thread." (Namine, in TFW later informs Sora that this is Kairi.)
Sora asks about his friends, & Chirithy says no one else arrived with him, as well as "And if they're not here, they're either gone forever, or clinging to the world you came from."
Chirithy: "To become your old self again and return to the real world, you'll have to piece yourself together in this world, first."
Chirithy: "Usually, only a heart can reach The Final World. But since you've clearly managed to retain some kind of form, that can only mean your body was cast into this world as well."
Sora: "Okay, so if I can find my body, that means I'll be able to go back?"
Chirithy: "Precisely. But there's a lot of you to find. You're going to be busy."
Later, Chirithy asks Sora if Sora hasn't already learned how to restore someone's Heart after it's been lost. Sora asks if it's the same as the Power of Waking, & Chirithy says "I'm not sure. Give it a shot?". Sora says it'll take all his heart.
So. Sora did NOT bring his Heart into The Final World, because Chirithy explains death is Heart and Body perishing, & clarifies that's what happened to Sora.
Chirithy even further clarifies it's not his Heart by saying usually (Implying this isn't the case here.) only a Heart can reach The Final World, but since Sora's retained "some kind of form" (Implying how he is before Chirithy then is not as a Heart, nor a body.), that Sora's body was cast into this world as well.
Sora DOESN'T have a form because he has a Heart, but because Kairi is holding onto him, & with all her strength at that.
So it's pretty likely Sora's Heart was never in pieces, & rather, it was what he & Chirithy specifically discuss finding, that was in pieces: His Body.
And their dialogue implies restoring someone's heart is something a Keyblade Wielder learns to do, Sora implies it's difficult for him, & this kinda goes against automatic self-Heart restoration, IMHO.
Except the reasoning isn't because the heartless can "beat each other up" but because keyblade users can permenantly kill a heartless. So already you've shown to me you have not been read the premise of this thread and have thrown out pointless false equivalences.The real cal howard said:Conceptual manipulation in every blow being bull
For the same reason each of the Creation Trio don't have the ability for being able to beat each other down, the Royal Knights in Digimon don't have it for being able to beat up the Demon Lords, and etc.
How is that any different from what I said?TheSpeedster96 said:@Dragon We've been saying his "casual attacks" are conceptual because all his powers throughout the Kingdom Hearts games have shown to be able to kill Heartless, not the other way around.
My point was the form Sora arrived in in The Final World ISN'T his Heart, given how Chirithy & Sora confirm what death is & that he experienced it. That said, I would like scans of that excerpt of Jiminy's Journal, please.TheSpeedster96 said:When did anyone say solely his heart was left? The closest thing that was said was me saying that only his heart had remained at the time, one in a fractured state with his body in pieces as well.
Chirithy's statement does not go against the idea of his heart being in the Final World, which you claim it wasn't The "some kind of form" he was in was referring to the metaphysical state he was in at that point. Strelitzia even says that he had retained some sort of form as a heart, and questions if that was because he's special. https://youtu.be/yTGoKBw12Tk?t=7m8s
"You look like a person. How is it that you retain your appearance? Are you special?"
The summary of what has happened in Jiminy's journal outright states that his heart had survived destruction and that his body was in pieces as well.
https://www.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-3/worlds/keyblade-graveyard "He encountered a strange creature named Chirithy, who told him he was in The Final World. While Sora's heart had survived utter destruction, his physical form had been fragmented, and so he set about piecing himself back together."
If that's not enough, and since you didn't read the OP (I'm guessing), the counter that indicates how many "phantoms" are left shows his heart, meaning it too was clearly damaged. Riku, Mickey, Aqua, etc ALL had the same damaged appearance of Sora in the Final World, and we see the Lich Heartless taking their hearts. This entirely lines up with Chirithy saying he was hanging by a thread. https://youtu.be/0ShQFf2i_vA?t=3m40s
Yes, Kairi was the reason why he could pull himself back together, no one even denied that here.
@Dark @Cal Matt hasn't at all refuted the context behind Sora being in conceptual pieces other than "it's a metaphorical reasoning", or the other reasoning for the heart being conceptual. And not that I'm with in agreement with everyone getting abstract existence because of the heart, but it has been shown characters regen because of their own heart still existing due to it being the embodiment of their own self, which qualifies for Type 2 Abstract Existence. This would apply to very few people though, and it's not combat applicable.
You're literally just nitpicking plot holes at this point, which KH is already known for. This doesn't debunk actual canon lore. Also, Pureblood Heartless are just the hearts of people who were naturally corrupted by darkness. It's made clear in the Ansem Reports.Imaginym said:Darkness exists, yet does the whole Realm of Darkness have a Heart? Do Pureblood Heartless have a Heart? Does the Dark Ocean have a Heart?
Heck, what about the Unversed? They're just emotions, & born from Vanitas, who is the Darkness of a Heart.
And there are things that exist outside of worlds. There's the barriers that divide worlds, & the Gummi they're made of, the lanes between, & all the space you fly to between worlds. They aren't part of the Worlds.