• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Kingdom Hearts: The "Heart" is actually abstract

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, you can tell me here when I should close this thread.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, you can tell me here when I should close this thread.
Very well, thanks.

BTW, once again, can you unlock the profile of Composite Mickey so he is also updated accordingly?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Upgrading everyone to 3-A is ridiculous and outlierish. Almost no one should scale.
We already discussed that before and deemed it as not an outlier.
 
Bobsican said:
Matthew Schroeder said:
Upgrading everyone to 3-A is ridiculous and outlierish. Almost no one should scale.
We already discussed that before and deemed it as not an outlier.
Then that discussion had an objectively wrong conclusion. Do you even know what outlier even means? No summons should scale and keyblades aren't conceptual attacks.
 
Please elaborate instead of just saying stuff like "No, this should go like Y".
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I think we should deal with 3-A in another thread.
I agree, Matt can´t just come in and say that it should go another way with no arguments whatsoever supporting it and acting as if his words were fully factual.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, the word conceptual almost never means "Concept Hax" like people on this wiki interpret it as.
We aren't using it for that. The conceptually in pieces scan was to justify the heart being conceptual since Sora was literally in that state in the Final World with only his heart left, having his soul and physical body already destroyed.
 
Yes, that's nice but....what would that do here.

-You do this.

-People get uppity

-Arguments happen

-Shade gets thrown

-Reports happen

-Nothing gets settled.

The need to "call a spade a spade" and nice and all, but horribly inefficient. Are people too sensitive? Possibly. If they are, then if you want to get something done, you have to compromise and choose a kinder tone.
 
The statement that the heart is conceptually destroyed doesn't mean what you think it means. It's just saying that his heart was shattered, that's it.
 
Matt, it outright states Sora was in pieces on a conceptual level. Chirithy states he needed to piece himself back together just to have a physical body again. It quite literally means the heart is conceptual.
 
"Conceptually destroyed"

You need some serious proof in order to debunk this as not being conceptual manip.I don't even care about KH but that needs to be debunked with more than just stating "the heart was shattered".
 
It doesn't say that. It just uses conceptually as a descriptor. Conceptually most often than not DOES NOT mean what it does in this wiki.

Like I've seen series that describe vampires with "The concept of time does not apply to them", not because they are unbound to the concept of time, but simply because they don't age. Similarly, in Nier Automata Adam says that the concept of death carries no meaning to machines simply because their bodies can be rebuild endless times over.

You need to interpret things less literally.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It doesn't say that. It just uses conceptually as a descriptor. Conceptually most often than not DOES NOT mean what it does in this wiki.
Like I've seen series that describe vampires with "The concept of time does not apply to them", not because they are unbound to the concept of time, but simply because they don't age. Similarly, in Nier Automata Adam says that the concept of death carries no meaning to machines simply because their bodies can be rebuild endless times over.

You need to interpret things less literally.
Both the examples you listed are false equivalences. Sora was in a state where he only had some form of his heart, which is constiently established as fundemental to your existence in Kingdom Hearts. It's above both the soul and body. You're seriously going to need better proof than just "it's a metaphorical meaning".
 
Conceptually is defined as, "in terms of a concept or abstract idea."

Such a wording would imply the very idea of Sora is scattered. The heart realistically is not a body organ obviously, it's not a mind as Xehanort makes that comment that mind and hearts are different when he possesses Terra's body, and it's not a soul because soul and heart have been used separately before (I think even in the Ansem Reports?). If it's very clearly not any of those aspects, then what do you think it is? You think it's some sort of extra layer of soul or something?

No, because that's completely ridiculous to assume it wouldn't be a concept when the heart is consistently tied to almost identifying someone and giving them their meaning.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
It doesn't say that. It just uses conceptually as a descriptor. Conceptually most often than not DOES NOT mean what it does in this wiki.
Like I've seen series that describe vampires with "The concept of time does not apply to them", not because they are unbound to the concept of time, but simply because they don't age. Similarly, in Nier Automata Adam says that the concept of death carries no meaning to machines simply because their bodies can be rebuild endless times over.

You need to interpret things less literally.
That's because there's actual context behind those two statements. You didn't provide any for this one
 
Bobsican said:
This is different, as we can see that a "heart" is needed to exist in KH, which is already accepted as Nobodies already have Nonexistent Physiology, for example.
Please bother to actually check every part of the OP, Matt
You mean like how a soul is needed for people to exist in verses? But that doesn't make the soul conceptual.

None of my examples are false equivalencies, they are all shown examples that the word conceptual isn't a catch all term that means exclusively what you think it means.
 
yes but how does it mean it relates to that context in this case when both it being a soul and body is out of the equation. Three people explained this to you
 
They are a false equivalencies. You hardly gave context on both of your example, while there's actual evidence of the heart being conceptual in nature, and giving someone their idea of self. The statement is blatantly referring to an actual metaphsyical state he was in.
 
Sera EX said:
You know... in Japanese media "the Heart" (Õ┐â, Kokoro) is always abstract, referring to the "concept of the individual self" rather than the literal heart (Õ┐âÞçô, Shinzō - the internal organ that circulates blood throughout the body). So this would also apply to, say, Final Fantasy XIII.
^
 
I see all these people claiming Sora was in The Final World with only his Heart left, because his Body and Soul were destroyed, but....

https://youtu.be/XgtJ3E5-I_A?t=955

Chirithy brings up that Sora has died. Sora asks, "Wait, "death"?"

Chirithy: "Yes, the natural end for those whose hearts and bodies perish together."

Sora: "My heart and body perished? Um, does that mean..."

Chirithy: "Something is holding you here-refusing to let you go. You're hanging by a thread." (Namine, in TFW later informs Sora that this is Kairi.)

Sora asks about his friends, & Chirithy says no one else arrived with him, as well as "And if they're not here, they're either gone forever, or clinging to the world you came from."

Chirithy: "To become your old self again and return to the real world, you'll have to piece yourself together in this world, first."

Chirithy: "Usually, only a heart can reach The Final World. But since you've clearly managed to retain some kind of form, that can only mean your body was cast into this world as well."

Sora: "Okay, so if I can find my body, that means I'll be able to go back?"

Chirithy: "Precisely. But there's a lot of you to find. You're going to be busy."


Later, Chirithy asks Sora if Sora hasn't already learned how to restore someone's Heart after it's been lost. Sora asks if it's the same as the Power of Waking, & Chirithy says "I'm not sure. Give it a shot?". Sora says it'll take all his heart.


So. Sora did NOT bring his Heart into The Final World, because Chirithy explains death is Heart and Body perishing, & clarifies that's what happened to Sora.

Chirithy even further clarifies it's not his Heart by saying usually (Implying this isn't the case here.) only a Heart can reach The Final World, but since Sora's retained "some kind of form" (Implying how he is before Chirithy then is not as a Heart, nor a body.), that Sora's body was cast into this world as well.

Sora DOESN'T have a form because he has a Heart, but because Kairi is holding onto him, & with all her strength at that.

So it's pretty likely Sora's Heart was never in pieces, & rather, it was what he & Chirithy specifically discuss finding, that was in pieces: His Body.

And their dialogue implies restoring someone's heart is something a Keyblade Wielder learns to do, Sora implies it's difficult for him, & this kinda goes against automatic self-Heart restoration, IMHO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top