Kingdom Hearts Series: The Tier 2 stuff

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. Here is the scans KingPin

 

[KingPin0422]

Mmm... with the context from previous scans that have worlds as having different flows of time, combined with these scans saying that worlds have their own time axes, and their own pasts and futures, it does seem that worlds are independent space-time continua.

So, I'll agree with the upgrades... unless there are points made that refute this idea.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Once again, having a different time flow or different space time doesn't automatically make you a separate universe. Just that these planets have their own unique time axis.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I honestly don't care about that right now.. I'm just trying to quantify and determine a tier for each world [whether they are a planet or otherwise] having a separate tme axis, past present and future .

There was also a statement from Xehanort somewhere that the worlds contained alternate timelines within ... Like from when Young Xehanort appeared... I beleive he was mentioning it in regards to time travel... But I'm uncertain where exactly... I believe it to be in either Dream Drop [extremely likely] or something afterward.

And before someone mentions this is referring to the time traveling of one KH verse rather than one world... I can bring up the scan of Xehanort specificallly referring to returning to the past version of a world within the verse...Young Xehanort and Older Xehanort both mention it to the past/present of a world... Rather than the past of the total verse.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

From Ever;

"Worlds having different time flows (I have no idea what "time axes" is supposed to mean or prove) doesn't mean anything for tier, it's still just a planet. I would seriously like scans of "worlds contain alternate timelines" because the second paragraph is very uncertain (With the use of "I believe this was said" multiple times) and the third doesn't really mean much on paper without context to the statement. We don't rate destroying space-time on a less than universal scale as Tier 2. Destroying planets, even if they have separate flows of time, is still just destroying planets."

 

[Bobsican]

From Ever;
"(...)We don't rate destroying space-time on a less than universal scale as Tier 2. Destroying planets, even if they have separate flows of time, is still just destroying planets."

I´m sure we do, it´s just unquantificable and so "ignored" by default, which is a bit different, but it leads to basically the same result, so...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

>Says he's sure we do.

>Immediately noted that we don't by default.

If we don't we don't. We don't give someone a Tier 2 rating for destroying space time on a less than universal scale.

 

[KingPin0422]

I'll admit that I'm mostly going off of prior knowledge here, but as far as I can tell, an axis is an imaginary line upon which points are placed. I'd reckon the statement that worlds exist on different time axes implies that they exist along completely independent "timelines", being causally closed off from each other.

 

[Seol404]

I'm inclined to agree with KingPin, although I'll hold off on supporting this for now.

 

[Bobsican]

There´s also the 3-A stuff everyone already scales to, if we slap the time thing to it, yeah, at least the Low 2-C rating could be achieved.

 

[Dziga]

Neutral on this actually. I've look a bit on the 2-C Kingdom Hearts argument before this thread and seems it has legit evidence, but I'm not sure it's entirely compatible with our tiering system.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

>Says he's sure we do.
>Immediately noted that we don't by default.

If we don't we don't. We don't give someone a Tier 2 rating for destroying space time on a less than universal scale.

This. It doesn't matter if the worlds have different times.

 

[Bobsican]

There´s also the 3-A stuff everyone already scales to, if we slap the time thing to it, yeah, at least the Low 2-C rating could be achieved.

What about this?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I could see Low 2-C for the KH3 Ctew actually due to the new time info.... But I'm not the lead on this so that's up to everyone else.

As for the reason I assumed that they had timelines is because when reading about the time traveling stuff the wiki mentioned on two separate occasions that Young Xehanort came from an alternate timeline (which I haven't had time to look into as I'm busy with IRL stuff) ... Which was revealed distinctly in Dream Drop as the past of a specific world rather than the verse.... Which would mean, if both scans are provided, that the past of a specitic world = a timeline... However this is merely statements until I have time to gather the evidence.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There´s also the 3-A stuff everyone already scales to, if we slap the time thing to it, yeah, at least the Low 2-C rating could be achieved.

What about this?

Ever and I disagree with the 3-A scaling to everyone.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Matt, Ever, and DragonMaster

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I still don't know where in the heck Low 2-C is coming from.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Something about "Transcending Time" iirc, but the statement sounds too vague.

 

[Bobsican]

Something about "Transcending Time" iirc, but the statement sounds too vague.

Not exactly what I meant, I guess I´ll have to explain:

"Universe level (Wields the X-Blade, which granted him control over Kingdom Hearts. Was going to erase the world and create a new one with a balance of light and darkness. Superior to the other Seekers of Darkness)" - Xehanort´s profile

And then...

"Space-Time on a universal scale." - Matt

Meaning, that the only thing missing for 3-A be Low 2-C is getting time involved, which, well, the OP easily relates it to such, as "Worlds" are already accepted to have a "time axis", combine that with actual universal size, and bam, Low 2-C

Oh and after thinking it, I have to bring this up:

If we already accept Xehanort´s "universe" statements, wouldn´t that pretty much turn the "worlds" being universes as an accepted thing overall?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Uh, that doesn't prove the space-time continuum was going to be destroyed.

 

[Bobsican]

Uh, that doesn't prove the space-time continuum was going to be destroyed.

I can see that now that you mention it...

But the last statement I just added is still noteworthy:

"If we already accept Xehanort´s "universe" statements, wouldn´t that pretty much turn the "worlds" being universes as an accepted thing overall?"

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No it doesn't. Xehanort's statements in terms of KH would have meant everything. The world in this context would be universe unlike the word "world" in the other things we noted.

 

[Bobsican]

No it doesn't. Xehanort's statements in terms of KH would have meant everything. The world in this context would be universe unlike the word "world" in the other things we noted.

He also meantions "World" a bit earlier o

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yes, in this context he means that Darkness will spread across the World of Light in which in its entirety is an universe.

 

[Bobsican]

But also implies that all the timelines will be merged into a single one, which is tier 2 as far I´m aware. (note that "Worlds" having their own time axis was accepted, combine that with the current 3-A reasoning and Low 2-C isn´t that far...)

Also, wasn´t the World of Light denied being an universe by our standards or something like that?

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Can we continue?

 

[Bobsican]

But also implies that all the timelines will be merged into a single one, which is tier 2 as far I´m aware. (note that "Worlds" having their own time axis was accepted, combine that with the current 3-A reasoning and Low 2-C isn´t that far...)
Also, wasn´t the World of Light denied being an universe by our standards or something like that?

Quoting for emphasis

 

[Bobsican]

^

(Aka, bump and also look above)

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

By the way, according to the Pocket Reality Manipulation page:

"If the pocket reality is of comparable size to a universe, and has its own timeline, this would simply be a Low 2-C feat according to the tiering system."

- Universe sized per the accepted 3-A stuff? Check

- Accepted to have timeline? - Check

If we go and accept Matt´s arguably headcanon based on an explicitly non canon derivative work at face value, Low 2-C should still be obtained in the end anyways.

 

[Imaginym]

Apologies.... Which Pocket Dimension is this referring to? Also, what is Matt's "arguably headcanon based on an explicitly non canon derivative work at face value"?

 

[Bobsican]

Apologies.... Which Pocket Dimension is this referring to? Also, what is Matt's "arguably headcanon based on an explicitly non canon derivative work at face value"?

1 & 2: Matt actually tried to take the cosmology explanation in the KH Manga (which has been already stated to not be canon), which takes "Worlds" as simply pocket dimensions, or something like that.

Anyways, 2-B is still a possibility depending on how this part goes.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

At Least Low 2-C, Likely 2-B

Bam. Problem solved.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Pocket-Dimensions would explain a lot of things about the worlds to be fair ...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"But also implies that all the timelines will be merged into a single one, which is tier 2 as far I´m aware. (note that "Worlds" having their own time axis was accepted, combine that with the current 3-A reasoning and Low 2-C isn´t that far...)"

This is not mentioned at all in the scene you gave. Nothing regarding timelines merging.

 

[Bobsican]

By timelines I meant "Worlds", as his statements clearly talk about the events of Union X, back when there was only one "World"

Meaning that reuniting back a bunch of now-separate timelines/"Worlds" to a single one would be 2-B

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I still don't see how each world is a universe, I am pretty sure we've made the case to why they are planets.

 

[Bobsican]

By the way, according to the Pocket Reality Manipulation page:
"If the pocket reality is of comparable size to a universe, and has its own timeline, this would simply be a Low 2-C feat according to the tiering system."

- Universe sized per the accepted 3-A stuff? Check

- Accepted to have timeline? - Check

If we go and accept Matt´s arguably headcanon based on an explicitly non canon derivative work at face value, Low 2-C should still be obtained in the end anyways.

Even if the pocket reality stuff is denied, it still leads to tier 2 obviously, either Low 2-C or 2-B depending on how this goes, once again.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What Pocket Realm are you discussing and how is it universe sized? The World of Light is a universe in its totality hence 3-A. It's not a pocket realm. It's not that hard to understand....this is getting asinine...