Kingdom Hearts Series: The Tier 2 stuff

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Especially since we need scans disproving the Dream Drop Distance stuff rather than proving they are planets . Because nothing supplied actually disproved the Dream Drop stuff, and we can't ignore that due to consistent referring to that title even in KH3... One statement from KH3 about a world being a Planet is not going to cut it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So this may take a bit as he has tons of posts to reply to.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Dragon Another question... Is there anyone else besides Ever and yourself we can consult about this ? I don't want to inconvenience one person about this particular matter.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

It would be easier if Ever came here himself honestly.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Maybe ask Kepe. I am personally not bothering with this. Probably ask as many staff as possible.

 

[Bobsican]

@Dragon Another question... Is there anyone else besides Ever and yourself we can consult about this ? I don't want to inconvenience one person about this particular matter.

Beyond staff members? Not really, unless you want to pull The real cal howard here (As he´s the only staff member left that supports the series and hasn´t contributed here as of now)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It would be easier if Ever came here himself honestly.

He like...objectively can't.

 

[Bobsican]

It would be easier if Ever came here himself honestly.

I mean, he´s more than super banned after that one incident.

Be glad he can even interact at all thanks to Drag´s speech.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

He like...objectively can't.

Why? I am confused.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah I am 100% with Dragon here. Not only are the worlds explicitely planets, but 2-B is a massive outlier more so than Possibly 3-A for the whole cast (lol).

Only reason the later even passed was through the stonewalling tactics being pushed here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

After a controversial incident last year, he got banned and can only help out from off site.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also the manga and the light novels explain that the worlds are planets surrounded by their own bubbles of reality. Which explains their differences. So they're more like pocket dimensions. Not Universes.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ever's replies;

"Whatever, I don't care, it's not relevant to worlds being universes and was an aside to my main point.

"A massive core of energy lay beyond the door sought by the Heartless. It may be the ultimate goal of the Heartless. But what is that energy? I have devised a hypothesis, based upon my observations of the Heartless. The Heartless feed on other's hearts, and they yearn for that energy core. That thing beyond the door must be a heart, too--the heart of this world. There is no proof, but, having felt that immense energy, I am certain. That was the heart of the world. The Heartless are trying to take hearts not only from all living creatures, but from the planet itself. But what do they mean to do with the heart of the world?" -Ansem's Report 6

"The worlds Sora travels are divided into three regions: the realm of light, the realm of darkness, and the realm between. Worlds in the realm of light and the realm between exist as planets in a great sea of stars, which Sora and his friends explore aboard their smile-powered gummi ship. The realm of darkness, however, exists in a space closed off from time. It is accessible only via dark corridors—pathways that open for agents of darkness, or when worlds become unstable—or by using the "power of waking." As a result, Aqua has spent years wandering the realm of darkness, unable to return to the light." -Kingdom Hearts III's Glossary entry on "The Three Realms"

Tell me, how can worlds be universes when the series says they're planets on multiple occasions, both from the beginning of the series and the most recent installment. It makes the franchise's intent on defining worlds very clear. Worlds having different flows of time doesn't prove they're universes, nor does them being walled off from each other, it just means the verse's cosmology is very weird."

 

[Bobsican]

Wasn´t the manga stated to not be canon?

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Also the manga and the light novels explain that the worlds are planets surrounded by their own bubbles of reality. Which explains their differences. So they're more like pocket dimensions. Not Universes.

The Manga isn't canon, Nomura literally deconfirmed it. Not sure why we would take it regardless when this site doesn't even consider the Zelda Manga canon so yeah.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Secondary Canon.

Here's the explanation from the manga. This is how the worlds can be fundamentally different right down to how everything looks and the degree of realism, but also be planets. They are surrounded by their own perception of reality.

 

[Bobsican]

Secondary Canon.
Here's the explanation from the manga. This is how the worlds can be fundamentally different right down to how everything looks and the degree of realism, but also be planets. They are surrounded by their own perception of reality.

1: The scan doesn´t appear to me, the page just crashes or something like that.

2: It can´t be even Secondary Canon if WoG disproves any relation to begin with.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Once again, this has been deconfirmed by Nomura.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

The planet is where the heart of a world resides, which is where Sora consistently travels to. Planet they land on is the representation of that world from the Ocean Between. And planet in a sea full of stars only further confirms worlds being universes since the planet resides in that world. It's this simple Ever

 

[Bobsican]

The planet is where the heart of a world resides, which is where Sora consistently travels to. Planet they land on is the representation of that world from the Ocean Between. And planet in a sea full of stars only further confirms worlds being universes since the planet resides in that world. It's this simple Ever

This also supports those being just representations rather than literally a planet

"or because you could open special Lanes with your Keyblades."

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The planet is where the heart of a world resides, which is where Sora consistently travels to. Planet they land on is the representation of that world from the Ocean Between. And planet in a sea full of stars only further confirms worlds being universes since the planet resides in that world. It's this simple Ever

Okay this is from me. It's not saying just the planet is in a sea of stars. It states that the worlds themselves are planets in a sea of stars. It's directly stating that the worlds are planets, not that the planets are in a sea of stars in the world.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I want to quote this as well.

"Worlds having different flows of time doesn't prove they're universes, nor does them being walled off from each other, it just means the verse's cosmology is very weird."

Ever, you outright admitted this doesn't make sense with the logic you are using. The more objective interpretation for this to make sense is that they are universes. You outright have agreed it doesn't make sense and I told you we should take objective precedence for what makes the most sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You haven't provided situations to anything. You just seem to be going by a headcanon and I trust the explanation given in an official material far more so. Just because the events as told by the manga are overwritten by the games, doen't mean lore and cosmology established by the manga can't be accepted.

 

[Sixo_Bullets]

For the record, I agree with this upgrade.

 

[Bobsican]

Just because the events as told by the manga are overwritten by the games, doen't mean lore and cosmology established by the manga can't be accepted.

It would be like taking headcanons at best, so... yeah, no.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also the notion that it "Doesn't make sense" isn't an argument. Fiction is allowed to have weird cosmologies.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Okay this is from me. It's not saying just the planet is in a sea of stars. It states that the worlds themselves are planets in a sea of stars. It's directly stating that the worlds are planets, not that the planets are in a sea of stars in the world.

It's literally stated beforehand that the planets represent the worlds. That where the hearts of the worlds are as well, that's even why stars go out after they are taken. To say that the worlds aren't be represented by the planets when Sora travels to said planets and that's where the hearts of the worlds are is ignoring previously establish context.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It would be like taking headcanons at best, so... yeah, no.

>Everything in this thread is your interpretation, somehow not headcanon

>Explanation in an officially published work, now that's headcanon

How do you function

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Also the notion that it "Doesn't make sense" isn't an argument. Fiction is allowed to have weird cosmologies.

You missed the point entirely, we go with the more objective interpretation of things. Saying "this is fiction" as an excuse doesn't work in all scenarios.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Inverted Tempested, just stonewalling and saying something wrong does not make it false. The text outright says that the worlds are planets. Reiterating your erroneous idea doesn't make it true.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

You're misunderstanding the source material in how it's representing those statements and this is grossly being shown throughout the fact we've proven worlds are universes, have their own spatial and temporal splits, and that there are countless amounts. You're literally just labeling things as "it's just fiction" and "headcanon" to get away with not making an actual constructive refute.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's literally stated beforehand that the planets represent the worlds. That where the hearts of the worlds are as well, that's even why stars go out after they are taken. To say that the worlds aren't be represented by the planets when Sora travels to said planets and that's where the hearts of the worlds are is ignoring previously establish context.

Where is this? It says nothing about that. The line beforehand states this "The worlds Sora travels are divided into three regions: the realm of light, the realm of darkness, and the realm between." What previously established context are you talking about.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

And we already explained why this sentiment is wrong. You keep calling this wrong and won't actually tell me as to why it's wrong which is my problem Matt. You keep relying on Ever and Dragon to refute for you but you've not actually given much reasoning of opposition other than the standards calling people wankers and using headcanon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have given arguments in my latest posts and they are straightforward, using the text itself. Meanwhile you are using headcanons.

 

[Bobsican]

>Everything in this thread is your interpretation, somehow not headcanon

>Explanation in an officially published work, now that's headcanon

How do you function

1: I never said it wasn´t, in fact, it´s open to debate like pretty much everything else.

2: If we go with that, we would end up with stuff like (main canon) Jojo having a cosmology of infinite universes. See where I´m going?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I will also say that I trust the words of Ansem over some random report on the Grand Ccouncilwoman. Also, from my understanding, having temporal and spatial splits does not make it a universe by default. Nor the word countless.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. So why are you pushing for it when the text itself contradicts it.

2. What does JoJo have to do with this, similarly ever heard of case-by-case? You're just making a false equivalency.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I have given arguments in my latest posts and they are straightforward, using the text itself. Meanwhile you are using headcanons.

In which you haven't elaborated as to why these are headcanons. We gave reasoning on why that interpretation of worlds is contradicted by the source material.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

What source material contradicts the interpretation. Said interpretation of the text is pretty cut and dry.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

This seems more like sustenance based on argument from belief rather than a refute. You are misinterpreting the text, we explained multiple times over why Ansem's statement isn't limited to just a planet. Castle Oblivion literally has a starry sky in it contained which would go against the notion these are just planets, or else you would be going with stars being on planets.