King Hassan VS Kindred: REDUX

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I searched through some topics related to LoL and didnt find any thread or CRT that accepted 5-D thingy as legit. In fact, I think it doesnt even mention it

 

[Rocker1189]

Looking back it was actually 4-D that was accepted at the least: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3589001

I thought it was 5-D since I rmemebered the quote, but still I think with the extra evidence I posted on the void, and that quote of eating multilpe layers of existence it should be 5-D not just 4-D.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Bruh moment

 

[Rocker1189]

Bruh moment

please dont make my face go any redder

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That thread actually completely cripples both of your arguments for a 5D LoL.

They were both brought up several times and never even remotely considered to be anything beyond 4D.

So yeah, Hassan just death haxes if this is all the evidence you have.

 

[Rocker1189]

That thread actually completely cripples both of your arguments for a 5D LoL.
They were both brought up several times and never even remotely considered to be anything beyond 4D.

So yeah, Hassan just death haxes if this is all the evidence you have.

You still have not proven anything for Hassan though still nothing with him capable of affecting type 1 AEs and actually that was only because we low balled it with 1 layer while it mentioned multiple layers of existence. It doesnt cripple anythign it simply lowballs it and I posted more evidence above that you still ignored.

So no Hassan does not death hax anything.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Hassan can kill concepts and harm beings comparable to abstracts in terms of how hard they are to hit. Ive already brought this up several times before. Those layers of existence in no way relate to layers of resistances or anything like that from the evidence you have given.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I do have to agree with Rocker, I don't recall anyone in Fate being AE Type 1.

 

[Rocker1189]

Hassan can kill concepts and harm beings comparable to abstracts in terms of how hard they are to hit. Ive already brought this up several times before. Those layers of existence in no way relate to layers of resistances or anything like that from the evidence you have given.

how hard you hit does not mean anything about the type of existence you are.

It is not about layers of resistance it is about the layers of existence a character exists at, seriously none of your comments make any sense.

If he cant reach Kindreds he would never be able to kill it, heck his range does not even allow it even if we said they are only 4D.

Also its your turn to actually bring scans, you have asked me and weekly for them an we have provided plenty(you still ignored my last scans), all you did was link a blog with no scans in it.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That has nothing to do with anything I said

You are the one who has to prove that those layers go beyond the conceptual

Hassan affected all of Tiamat (Fate) who has 2-A type 3 acausality

Servant Physiology is not a blog, it is an officially accepted page that shows the standard abilities that all Servants have. If you think it's wrong, make a CRT. Everything i have and stated, outside of the 1-A Evening Bell shit which is genuinely just wrong so sorry about that, has been on pages that are, again, officially accepted. Finally, quality is vastly more important than quantitiy when it comes to scans, and none of the ones you or Weekly have posted are of particularly high quality in regards to what you're trying to prove

 

[Rocker1189]

That has nothing to do with anything I said
You are the one who has to prove that those layers go beyond the conceptual

Hassan affected all of Tiamat (Fate) who has 2-A type 3 acausality

Servant Physiology is not a blog, it is an officially accepted page that shows the standard abilities that all Servants have. If you think it's wrong, make a CRT. Everything i have and stated, outside of the 1-A shit which is genuinely just wrong so sorry about that, has been on pages that are, again, officially accepted. Finally, quality is vastly more important than quantitiy when it comes to scans, and none of the ones you or Weekly have posted are of particularly high quality in regards to what you're trying to prove

That is literally what you said but ok.

beyond the conceptual? what? Mate you are not makiing any sense, the point is type 1 AE has he ever affected that? No, well he cant affect Kindred.

Look I dont care what it is my point is link me scans and nothing there proved type 1 AE either. Just saying they are not high qquality has nothing to do with it, you are just spotung random stuff without even making a proper argument.

Question:

Has he affected a type 1 AE?

If the answer is no, he cant affect Kindred, that is all. If the answer is yes then I need proof or scans.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Type 1 AE is being an abstraction or concept

Kindred is a concept

Hassan can kill concepts

******* a m a z i n g isnt it

 

[Rocker1189]

Type 1 AE is being an abstraction or concept
Kindred is a concept

Hassan can kill concepts

******* a m a z i n g isnt it

Mate you truly dont undestand how concepts work, if you can affect a concept it does not mean you can affect a type 1 AE, at most you can affect a type 2, you need to prove you can affect a type 1 AE.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yeah, I again have to agree with Rocker. Abstractions are seperated for a reason, and I believe you need Concept Manip Type 2 or just the ability to hit specifically Type 1 in order to hit them.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Rocker

Being a concept is the reason that 99.99999% of the characters with type 1 AE have it

If you're saying the page is wrong, make a CRt

 

[Rocker1189]

Rocker
Being a concept is the reason that 99.99999% of the characters with type 1 AE have it

If you're saying the page is wrong, make a CRt

No there is no CRT to be made you just completely misunderstand how conceptual manip and abstract existences work. I am literally using the page..

being able to control or attack a concept does not automatically give you the ability to attack a type 1 AE that is how it works currently you would need to make the CRT.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

You're literally saying that being able to hit a concept doesn't let you hit a concept

I don't even know how to property react to this

 

[Rocker1189]

You're literally saying that being able to hit a concept doesn't let you hit a concept
I don't even know how to property react to this

No I am saying that being able to hit a concept allows you at affect concepts and type 2 abstracts but not type 1 abstracts that is what I am saying, you need to show that you can affect type 1 AEs.

Neither do I.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Type 2 are concepts that exist through the multiverse, and exist in every reality regardless. Type 3 are things that shape the current existing reality.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Hassan's death hax works on concepts

End of story

What he has physically hit means nothing here

 

[Rocker1189]

and I assume that Hassan needs proof that he can affect a type 2 concept right?

 

[Rocker1189]

Hassan's death hax works on concepts
End of story

What he has physically hit means nothing here

ok please give proof of him affecting a type 2 concept becaus ethis is getting annoying, affecting concepts is not a be all end all, there are 4 types. I need type 2 (or 1) proof then he can affect kindred.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Affecting a character with type 1 abstract existence requires you to affect the abstraction itself (or concept), according to the page. By that logic having conceptual manipulation would allow you to affect such beings. Killing type 2 AE being permanently also requires you to affect the abstraction, so I don't see where the problem lies. Unless there was a thread where it was concluded that the only way to affect someone with type 1 AE is to already have a feat of affecting such beings in your verse.

 

[Rocker1189]

Affecting a character with type 1 abstract existence requires you to affect the abstraction itself (or concept), according to the page. By that logic having conceptual manipulation would allow you to affect such beings. Killing type 2 AE being permanently also requires you to affect the abstraction, so I don't see where the problem lies. Unless there was a thread where it was concluded that the only way to affect someone with type 1 AE is to already have a feat of affecting such beings in your verse.

ok has Hassan done either? that is my question.

And no just have Conceptual manip does not allow you to affect abstracts, you need type 2 at least to do so.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Not all abstracts are abstracts of type 2 concepts

In relation to whether Hassan can kill type 2 concepts or not, it's weird. Concepts in Nasuverse have properties of types 2, 3, and 4. Like, they're transcendent of reality and unaffected by the destruction of physical objects, but only apply to specific pockets of reality and are shaped by perception and can be created like type 4 concepts.

 

[Rocker1189]

Not all abstracts are abstracts of type 2 concepts
In relation to whether Hassan can kill type 2 concepts or not, it's weird. Concepts in Nasuverse have properties of types 2, 3, and 4. Like, they're transcendent of reality and unnafectes by the destruction of physical objects, but only apply to specific pockets of reality and are shaped by perception and can be created like type 4 concepts.

Kindred is so that does not matter.

Can you bring scans? type 2 is what is required.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But is Hassan cannot hit, this is a stomp.

 

[Rocker1189]

But is Hassan cannot hit, this is a stomp.

I did say that from the start.

 

[Rocker1189]

Last time he lost becuase of his range, it would be the same yet again. He has no way of affecting any kindred beyond the one in the same universe and would get insta gibbed by any of the others. Also they are a type 2 concept, I dont think he can affect that. In other words its a stomp tbh.
Actually they dont even have a concept of death...

literally.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'm aware, just a reminder.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Would Hassan be able to affect Kama? If the answer is yes then he can affect Kindred.

God only knows why conceptual manipulation had to be divided into types so that people have an even harder time deciding what kind of conceptual manipulation their verse has. We probably should have given Fate type 2, but we went with type 3 "just to be safe".

 

[Rocker1189]

Would Hassan be able to affect Kama? If the answer is yes then he can affect Kindred.
God only knows why conceptual manipulation had to be divided into types so that people have an even harder time deciding what kind of conceptual manipulation their verse has. We probably should have given Fate type 2, but we went with type 3 "just to be safe".

Kama only embodies a type 3 so the answer is still no.

well if they are type 3 then they cant affect kindred.

As to why they are seperate it is because there are clear differences in conceptual power in fiction, some one who has some conceptual power should not be able to affect any concept willy nilly.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Type 3 AE doesn't exist anymore and she is Type 1 Nonexistent, where a character also exists as an idea.

 

[Rocker1189]

Type 3 doesn't exist anymore and she is Type 1 Nonexistent, where a character also exists as an idea.

I mean she only embodies a concept at the type 3 level. You need type 2 or above for Kindred. And being nonexistent literally doe snot matter to this debate I dont know why it is being brought up.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Type 3 concepts exists tho

 

[Rocker1189]

Type 3 concepts exists tho

I think he means Abstract existence, type 3 got deleted.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Nasuverse concepts are not any definite type. They are listed as Unknown on several pages because they possess properties that are contradictory for any category.

 

[Rocker1189]

Nasuverse concepts are not any definite type. They are listed as Unknown on several pages because they possess properties that are contradictory for any category.

then with no prove Hassan cant beat Kindred, and its a stomp.

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

Again, if he can affect Kama then he should be able to affect Kindred.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Anyways

Hassan can force the concept of death onto things

Kama should be a type 2 nonexistent, since she's conceptually nonexistent. Kama is being brought up because you kept saying that Hassan couldn't hit Kindred.

Also, what is the proof for Kindred being a type 2 concept anyways?