King Hassan VS Kindred: REDUX

[Botchede]

Now that King Hassan second Key has been upgraded into 2-A, i think he is finally ready for his rematch against Kindred.

Grand Assassin King Hassan vs Kindred, Speed Equalized for both. The arena is the Lion King's Castle.

Win by Death or Incap!

King Hassan:

Kindred:

Inconclusive:

 

[Rocker1189]

Last time he lost becuase of his range, it would be the same yet again. He has no way of affecting any kindred beyond the one in the same universe and would get insta gibbed by any of the others. Also they are a type 2 concept, I dont think he can affect that. In other words its a stomp tbh.

Actually they dont even have a concept of death...

 

[Botchede]

Last time he lost becuase of his range, it would be the same yet again. He has no way of affecting any kindred beyond the one in the same universe and would get insta gibbed by any of the others. Also they are a type 2 concept, I dont think he can affect that. In other words its a stomp tbh.
Actually they dont even have a concept of death...

Couldn't King Hassan simply insert the concept of death into Kindred through Azazel?

Also, wouldn't Speed Equalized simply negate the "Exists through all time and space" problem?

I think he could at least get an inconclusive, since he has 2-A death resistance thanks to his new upgrades.

 

[Rocker1189]

Couldn't King Hassan simply insert the concept of death into Kindred through Azazel?

Also, wouldn't Speed Equalized simply negate the "Exists through all time and space" problem?

I think he could at least get an inconclusive, since he has 2-A death resistance thanks to his new upgrades.

well he can do it to 1 kindred sure, but it wont matter to the rest. Actually even then not sure he can, they are a type 2 concept and type 1 abstract, I dont think he can affect those tbh.

No it would make them the same speed but but it does not nerf someone who exists through out time and space to not exist throughout time and space, also Kindred does it on a 2-A level ,meaning through out miltiple times and spaces. Also omnipresent is not really a speed, it is a state of being.

2-A death resistance is useless against conceptual death manip. He woul dneed to resist conceptual manip too. Also with upgrades to the void their death and concept manip is likely 5-D.

 

[SchroKatze]

King Hassan can't enforce the concept of death... On the concept of drath itself. The Kindred aren't reapers, they are literally the very concept of death. Like, if someone dies, that death is Kindred itself. No matter how, when or where something dies. Death is Kindred, the Kindred are Death.

 

[Botchede]

King Hassan can't enforce the concept of death... On the concept of drath itself. The Kindred aren't reapers, they are literally the very concept of death. Like, if someone dies, that death is Kindred itself. No matter how, when or where something dies. Death is Kindred, the Kindred are Death.

Eh, not really. He can enforce the concept of Death because like it or not, as long as a character exists, no matter if they are 5D ou 3D, King Hassan can enforce that concept on others.

The reason he can't beat them is that they exist across space-time so enforcing it on just one won't kill all of them, but "nuh nuh you can't force the concept of death in me bcause i am already that very concept" is kinda BS, specially since King Hassan has enforced the concept of death on abstract beings before. So yeah, the very fact Kindred has a form, physical or non-pysical, turns it vulnerable to that.

 

[Rocker1189]

Eh, not really. He can enforce the concept of Death because like it or not, as long as a character exists, no matter if they are 5D ou 3D, King Hassan can enforce that concept on others.

The reason he can't beat them is that they exist across space-time so enforcing it on just one won't kill all of them, but "nuh nuh you can't force the concept of death in me bcause i am already that very concept" is kinda BS, specially since King Hassan has enforced the concept of death on abstract beings before. So yeah, the very fact Kindred has a form, physical or non-pysical, turns it vulnerable to that.

That is not how it works levels of dimensions do in fact help, but regardless his concept enforcement is only type 3 it wont work on a type 2 and type 1 abstract.

No that is not the onlt reason. what abstract being has he enforced it on? and what type of abstract because it would have to be a type 1 abstract with a conceptual existence of type 2. So far on his profile I see no abstract he has affected and I dont see anyone who is a type 2 concept. Tiamat is not an abstract btw.

 

[Botchede]

Eh, not really. He can enforce the concept of Death because like it or not, as long as a character exists, no matter if they are 5D ou 3D, King Hassan can enforce that concept on others.

The reason he can't beat them is that they exist across space-time so enforcing it on just one won't kill all of them, but "nuh nuh you can't force the concept of death in me bcause i am already that very concept" is kinda BS, specially since King Hassan has enforced the concept of death on abstract beings before. So yeah, the very fact Kindred has a form, physical or non-pysical, turns it vulnerable to that.

That is not how it works levels of dimensions do in fact help, but regardless his concept enforcement is only type 3 it wont work on a type 2 and type 1 abstract.
No that is not the onlt reason. what abstract being has he enforced it on? and what type of abstract because it would have to be a type 1 abstract with a conceptual existence of type 2. So far on his profile I see no abstract he has affected and I dont see anyone who is a type 2 concept. Tiamat is not an abstract btw.

Well, Angra is a abstract, and grand servants are usualy summoned to deal with threats in Angra's level, so Hassan could hypothetically use his NP on abstracts.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont see anything on angra that makes him an abstract and again it needs to be a '''type 1''' abstract with '''type 2 '''conceptual embodiment

 

[SchroKatze]

Hassan can not enforce death on death. If he could, that would just, you know, nope his own doing since there would be no death. Kindred is not only an abstract, they are the literal concept Hassan tries to enforce.


They can not only enforce death, but every single type of death is a part of them. Enforcing a concept on abstract is one thing, somehow enforcing the concept they embody on the abstract is another. Hassan didn't enforce death on a type 1 abstract, nor can he kill the very concept he uses to kill things.

 

[SchroKatze]

"And here's the kicker: we don't even see Kindred as physical characters in the world. So far as anyone in Valoran knows, Kindred is just a fairytale, a way for some Runeterran cultures to rationalize or personify the mystery of life and death."


They don't even have forms. The "forms" they take are literally just ideas of how "Death" looks like.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

>Well, Angra is a abstract, and grand servants are usualy summoned to deal with threats in Angra's level, so Hassan could hypothetically use his NP on abstracts.

Since when Angra's a Beast now? No, Grands have never being summoned to deal with Angra, otherwise, F/SN or F/Z wouldn't even be a thing

 

[Deerofdreams]

so from what i understand of this match is that kindred would kill him right?

if he enforces death onto death thats kinda like saying "hey kindred kill kindred" which i doubt they would comply

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

you people do realize that "Hassan can't force death onto Kindred because Kindred is death" only works if Kindred was death in Nasuverse

which it very much isn't

right?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Under verse equalization they would be

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

They would not be, because that is not what verse equalization does

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They are a type 2 conceptual entity, so yes, they would be the concept of death in any verse

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

So they become 1-A because the concept of death in Nasuverse can affect stuff on that level

Do you see why that doesn't work and why that is objectively not what verse equalization does?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That has actually been discussed before, yes they are of that level

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I don't even know how to react to this

But I can say that we objectively do not do that

 

[Paul_Frank]

>Kindred is 1-A

Imma need scans

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>Kindred is 1-A

Imma need scans

Here's an entire blog describing the nature of Kindred

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Absolutely nothing in that blog justifies Kindred being 1-A

 

[WeeklyBattles]

From what ive been told, nothing in Nasuverse implies death is 1-A either so not sure why we're having this conversation

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That's literally just them explaining death is them on a conceptual scale, and to deny it is to deny the order of life and death.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Uh

Akasha and shit has pretty good evidence of being 1-A from what i've heard

The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can kill someone so thoroughly that they can't even return to Akasha

Hassan has comparable death hax to the MEoDP

connect the dots

 

[Ultima_Reality]

That's just distorting what Verse Equalization is supposed to do, especially when we attempt to treat tiers as objectively as they possibly can under the stuff currently accepted on the profiles. If Kindred has no 1-A feats on his own, then he shouldn't be 1-A when put against characters from verses where the thing he embodies works on that scale, that's just cross-scalling, and SBA actually allows for paradoxes like this anyways.

Unless you're joking of course, in which case screw you HI3

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We dont accept Akasha as 1-A

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Akasha has no page and hasn't for several years

The only person you could possibly argue this through is Void Shiki, who should have a tier from wish granting regardless

 

[Deerofdreams]

can Hassan see kindred?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Uh

Akasha and shit has pretty good evidence of being 1-A from what i've heard

The Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can kill someone so thoroughly that they can't even return to Akasha

Hassan has comparable death hax to the MEoDP

connect the dots

Just out of curiosity do you have scans of this?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Aren't you literally in the discord where said evidence was shown to everyone, from whom I got the information myself?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The people on that server say that what youre saying doesnt make any sense, hence why im asking for scans

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We agreed it wasn't conclusive enough and we need to look for more.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The people on that server say that what youre saying doesnt make any sense, hence why im asking for scans

They never said that tho

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Oblivion That was literally just said, its being discussed as we speak

 

[Rocker1189]

I don't see why any of that matters. My point was never he can't enforce death since kindred is death. But he has never given it against a type 2 concept and type 1 AE. I doubt his concept manipulation would work. Especially since kindred does not even have a material form. Hassan's resistance is not on the same level. He gets killed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Didn't he kill Tiamat, someone who lacked a concept of death?

 

[Rocker1189]

Didn't he kill Tiamat, someone who lacked a concept of death?

thats not an Abstract.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I don't see why any of that matters. My point was never he can't enforce death since kindred is death. But he has never given it against a type 2 concept and type 1 AE. I doubt his concept manipulation would work. Especially since kindred does not even have a material form. Hassan's resistance is not on the same level. He gets killed.

You realize that Tiamat is a type 3 acausal over a 2-A range right. Ive heard that the LoL cosmology is about that large, so it should still work. Also, all servants can hit abstracts due to being able to hit Mara