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Kimetsu no Yaiba Speed

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Currently Tanjiro and most of the other characters are hypersonic or much higher in thanks to this calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Kimetsu_no_Yaiba:_Tanjirou_speed

My main issue with this calc is that the speed of the demon is transonic the logic behind it is common demons can blitz Demon slayers who are fte however I haven't found anything like that in the manga in fact there's evidence that goes against it.

1. A common demon isn't so fast that Tanjirou can react to it before his training

2. The drum demon is considered very fast by Tanjirou when they fought and his attacks should just be speed of sound.

3. Tanjirou even after his training can still be seen by a normal human.


Concerning Zenitsu's speed it's assumed he moves like lightning because Tanjirou hears his first form and asks "did lightning strike?" But that doesn't mean much a sonic boom sounds similar to a lightning strike and finally none of the breath users actually use elements in their fights it's just a visual effect.

Sekido and Kaigaku's attacks are considered to be real lightning however Sekido's electricity displays no properties comparable to real lighting and Kaigaku's attacks possess no properties comparable to real lightning
 
This all sounds like PIS tbh especially point 1

And 3 is a horrible point considering a the Wind Pillar could literally speed blitz his literally brother and couldn't even see him move but Tanjirou saw it all and moved and saved him
 
Could you elaborate a bit more on your second point I'm having trouble understanding it also could you please tell me when common demons have blitzed demon slayers? I don't remember anything like that
 
The Swamp Demon in particular was matching Tanjiro and was able to narrowly dodge his attacks, and at that point an injured Tanjiro who was having trouble moving was able to continuously dodge sonic attacks aided by high-speed spatial manipulation. So it is fair to say that the Swamp Demon is at least transonic. And since Tanjiro was able to dodge a point blank blitz attempt from a portal, it is fair to conclude that he is hypersonic.

The first point assumes that pre-training Tanjiro has normal reactions, but he was able to react to Nezuko who is stronger and faster than the average demon due to receiving a large amount of Muzan's blood; shown by the Swamp Demon being impressed by her speed and by her escaping Giyuu's hold due to him underestimating her. The third point assumes that Tanjiro is trying to race or escape normal humans by utilizing all his speed or something.

Not sure why you are citing very old calculations, when they have been replaced by ones where characters dodge physical lightning, cut through physical lightning, and have movement speed described in the narration to be "like lightning ripping through the air".
 
Isn't that circular reasoning the entire feat is justified by Tanjirou for Tanjirou if you applied that logic to something it'll lead to inflated results also Tanjirou said there was a smell of mould before the claw attacks came so he wasn't dodging by pure reflexes.

Why would you assume a normal human has fte reaction since there's no backing for that we know normal demons can be fought by normal people and most of those normal demons scale far below the drum demon who attacks at the speed of sound. Nezuko was injured and starving when she attacked Tanjirou.

Tanjirou was in pursuit of a demon he would be moving at his top speed.

Ah ok my bad on that one but I don't remember Tanjirou dodging the lightning itself.
 
The calc that places people like zenitsu, tanjiro and the pillars is a feat of zenitsu reacting to lightning and blitzing kaigaku.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
The Swamp Demon in particular was matching Tanjiro and was able to narrowly dodge his attacks, and at that point an injured Tanjiro who was having trouble moving was able to continuously dodge sonic attacks aided by high-speed spatial manipulation. So it is fair to say that the Swamp Demon is at least transonic. And since Tanjiro was able to dodge a point blank blitz attempt from a portal, it is fair to conclude that he is hypersonic.

The first point assumes that pre-training Tanjiro has normal reactions, but he was able to react to Nezuko who is stronger and faster than the average demon due to receiving a large amount of Muzan's blood; shown by the Swamp Demon being impressed by her speed and by her escaping Giyuu's hold due to him underestimating her. The third point assumes that Tanjiro is trying to race or escape normal humans by utilizing all his speed or something.
Click to expand...
I forgot this but the like lightning comment is figure of speech you could say "be strong as an ox" but that doesn't mean you're equivalent to an ox
 
It means the techniques are derived from the natural elements. And there's still the evidence of people hearing zenitsus attacks and comparing them to lightning.
 
Again a sonic boom sounds similar to lightning striking the ground if Zenitsu can legitimately harness lightning why has he never electrocuted demons before? If Tanjirou is using something close to Breath of the Sun why doesn't he incinerate everything he slices?
 
It's not zenitsu who harnesses lightning, his techniques do. But what zenitsu did was blitz lightning. I don't see how the lightning not electrocuting them means it's not lightning, they could literally just have a resistance to it or it's not strong enough to electrocute them
 
You didn't answer my other question if Zenitsu is actually harnessing lightning then why did Tanjirou's Waterfall Jar not wet the ground, why has Dance of the Fire God never incinerated a demon, what special energy are style like Breath of Love, Breath of Snakes or Breath of the Beast drawing from? Why does Akaza not get burned when Rengoku cuts him?
 
Why would the fire techniques incinerate the entire demon when most of the techniques are only applied to the sword, it's not as if the fire is so hot it just incinerates them instantly, it's just regular fire, and the same with the lightning demons could just have a resistance to fire. And here's wano telling us where some of the sub breathing techniques come from https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/618936749606961152/620309347477487616/image0.jpg
 
Dance of the Fire God is stated to be close to Breath of the Sun. Akaza should at least be singed or smoking or something. Demons are never stated to resist fire or lightning. Breaths being derivative of other breaths doesn't answer my question. Why don't Tanjirou's techniques wet the ground? Why don't any of the breaths create an effect similar to what they are? Also if that's your argument Zenitsu's style is Breath of Thunder so he's moving at the speed of sound.
 
Thunder/lightning, Did you not see the scan I sent where wano says the sound breathing is derived from lightning? And you never showed me tanjiros water techniques not wetting the ground. Also the demons not showing to be effected by the flames or lightning is likely due to their Regenerationn, something demons have.
 
It's been confirmed that the breaths are just effects but they do feel the respective elements. https://********.org/chapter/726406/9
 
Im not sure about pre. Should wait for a response from others. I'm not the most knowledgeable on the verse
 
Elements are not physical, but charactes can see/feel them as illusions (Dance of the Fire God can also negate Regenerationn alongside provide a sensation of burning). But some Demon Slayers are capable of creating shockwaves to attack at a longer range, and Demon Slayers who have turned into demons can combine Blood Demon Arts magic with the breaths to make the elements real.

Pre-Recovery Training Tanjiro being Hypersonic is by powerscaling the Swamp Demon to an injured Tanjiro who can dodge attacks explictly stated to be at the speed of sound, despite struggling to move due to his injuries and his opponent using high-speed spatial manipulation to support his attack. So putting the Swamp Demon at subsonic is reasonable and low-balling since he can somewhat keep up with a healthy Tanjiro.

And Tanjiro gets hypersonic due to dodging a teleportation speed blitz attempt at point blank range from the Swamp Demon. Even if we grant that the average demon is not subsonic, the Swamp Demon is one strong enough to have Blood Demon Arts and keep up with Tanjiro.
 
Tanjiro and Inosuke were able to dodge the attacks even before that, and Tanjiro's sense of smell came into play after the demon's attacks become more powerful and his spatial manipulation got faster.

The calc uses simple and straightforward powerscaling, that is minimalist and low balling; based on factual information that an injured Tanjiro who is having trouble moving can repeatedly dodge speed of sound attacks under spatial manipulation, and the demon who can match a healthy Tanjiro is powerscalled to that low-end. Not sure what you mean by circular reasoning. Do you consider powerscalling necessarily circular? Can you put the perceived circular reasoning in syllogism form?
 
If they could dodge speed of sound attacks then they have speed of sound combat speed or supersonic since Tanjirou was injured

The calc gives the demon transonic speed because it fought Tanjirou who is speed of sound and Tanjirou is now hypersonic because he dodged someone comparable to himself the entire calc comes from Tanjirou himself and is then used to upgrade him.

Circular reasoning in the sense that your premise doesn't proves your conclusion if Tanjirou can dodge speed of sound attacks while injure and still very much able to moves he's just in pain then there's nothing to prove he's 12 times faster than a former demon moon's attacks and the swamp demon doesn't scale to Tanjirou it has just one feat of dodging him which could count as reaction speed not combat speed.
 
Could I see where it's stated that demon slayers turned into demons can use their blood arts magic with the breaths to make the elements real
 
Ok none of that proves the lightning became real, the reason the lightning can now burn is because of the blood. It didn't make it real. He also says the blood just reinforced the techniques
 
Insert creative name here 12 said:
If they could dodge speed of sound attacks then they have speed of sound combat speed or supersonic since Tanjirou was injured
The calc gives the demon transonic speed because it fought Tanjirou who is speed of sound and Tanjirou is now hypersonic because he dodged someone comparable to himself the entire calc comes from Tanjirou himself and is then used to upgrade him.

Circular reasoning in the sense that your premise doesn't proves your conclusion if Tanjirou can dodge speed of sound attacks while injure and still very much able to moves he's just in pain then there's nothing to prove he's 12 times faster than a former demon moon's attacks and the swamp demon doesn't scale to Tanjirou it has just one feat of dodging him which could count as reaction speed not combat speed.
Click to expand...
You are misrepresenting or badly misunderstanding the argument. The Swamp Demon was placed at the lower limits of Tanjiro's possible speed because he was at least able to partially dodge Tanjiro's attacks and avoid incapacitating damage such as getting bisected or beheaded (two to three times by the way, not once. To boot, he was only outpaced by Nezuko who later fought Lower Moon candidates). Tanjiro was proven to be faster by dodging the Swamp Demon's attack at point blank range. The calc simply told us how fast Tanjiro is.

Nelliels said:
Ok none of that proves the lightning became real, the reason the lightning can now burn is because of the blood. It didn't make it real. He also says the blood just reinforced the techniques
Click to expand...
One possible interpretation is that the lightning was always real and it just got stronger. But this was debunked by the author's commentary saying that the elements are not real, and that characters only think they saw and felt them.

https://s4.********.org/data/b6c4d27f3fed968d3144d6d57013a0f2/x9.png

So we now know that Blood Demon Arts are needed to make the elements real.
 
Then the swamp demon has comparable reaction speed to contend with Tanjiro since it couldn't even touch him and two of the demons only dodged once which isn't consistent enough to be combat speed since they couldn't attack faster than him it also still is circular reasoning the Swamp demon is transonic for reacting to Tanjiro then Tanjiro is hypersonic for dodging it.
 
I see now, I guess I did ignore the reinforce part. I think we can get a calc for him reacting that one as well.
 
It is possible that the Swamp Demon has higher reaction speed even if he can't fully dodge the attacks, but at the end of the day, if the Swamp Demon's attack is at half the speed of sound, then Tanjiro would still be Hypersonic. If the Swamp Demon's attack is transonic, then Tanjiro is Hypersonic+.

If you want additional scaling, the demons Zenitsu and Inosuke blitzed in the Drum Demon's house were able to fight the Drum Demon and injure him, and both Zenitsu and Inosuke scale to Tanjiro. So sonic speed is not something super exclusive to lower moon level and above. Muzan probably didn't choose the Drum Demon to join the Moons based on his combat abilities, but hoping that his teleportation and spatial manipulation powers would develop similar to the Biwa Demon. For the Swamp Demon to develop Blood Demon Arts means that he is decently powerful.
 
The Swamp demon at no point attacked at speeds Tanjirou couldn't react to and normal demons have no proof of being fte so what's the justification for the swamp demon

Those demons aren't stated to be able to dodge the drum attacks combined with the fact there's more than one of them and the injury was on his back they could've easily ganged up on him and attacked from behind
 
Why are you arguing that the Swamp Demon is slower than Tanjiro? Did someone disagree with this fact?

We are not talking about "normal demons", we are talking about the Swamp Demon, who is high enough in the hierarchy to develop Blood Demon Arts and not get blitzed by Nezuko or Tanjiro. I already provided the justification; it is up to you to address it.

So you are saying that those demons are fast enough to successfully gang up on the Drum Demon, when all three of them are stated to have been trying to kill each other (the Drum Demon was even shown beating him drums)? Point proven.
 
The Swamp Demon is featless in combat speed it is vaguely above the speed of a regular demon

Kiyoshi said he was taken by a monster then another appeared and they attempted to kill each other the image shown even shows the two demons going against the drum demon and in the event the drum demon is fighting a 2v1 in which it can't kill its opponents an injury to the back is likely
 
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