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Kenganverse General Discussion Board

It's not like Ohma himself can't change and adopt on the fly as well, as we saw with his fights with Medicine Man and Inaba Ryo. When blinded by Medicine Man's poison and being stunned by the Mosquito, Ohma merely honed his senses to gather what information he could from his environment and tune out the noise. He carries this into his next bout with Ryo, and then when he starts using the Inaba Clans footwork techniques to confuse him, he starts analyzing his technique and then answers with his own techniques. The entire fight with Raian is just him relying on good fight IQ to know when to strike, how to defend against a stronger opponent, when to use soft and hard techniques, etc. Vs Cosmo was just keikaku vs keikaku. Speaking of keikaku, his secret techniques struck so much fear into Wakatsuki, a man who's relied on his own wits to aid his overwhelming brute strength to destroy his opponents, into immediate going for the KO against Ohma, and he still got outplayed.

Even Kanoh Agito notes that Ohma, who had only partially unlocked his full memory, had gotten ridiculously stronger since the day yesterday. He was even apart of the crowd that noted that his mastery of the Redirection Kata was crazy good. And a compliment from a guy like him is a pretty big deal.

I'd say that even 40/60 is at least reasonable
 
But that's the point. All of these people can adopt and change, and Agito is the undisputed master of this. Even more so, not only is he the undisputed master of this but he's an stupidly skilled monster before he even needs to start adapting and quite plainly among the top of the top of pure skill in the tournament.

Despite this, Kuroki still overcame him like it was nothing new. A difference between healthy and non healthy Ouma wouldn't be as big as we think either, as the Niko's style top techniques are literally made to compensate for all of this. I am not putting Ouma down, I just think you forget how outrageously out of their depth Kuroki left everyone else. And keep in mind, Raian never tried against Ouma. Even by the end of the manga he didn't use a single technique of the Kure clan, merely high stats and good battle sense.
 
Gotta disagree man.

Even while reeling from a strike from the Beard himself, which was meant to finish him his sheer mastery of his skill made Kuroki call him a master and even note that he is a fearsome opponent. The reason why this is so impressive is because this is a dying Ohma using a weakened Advance to put himself on even grounds in terms of power, cause it's noted that otherwise he'd be too weak to fight on due to his conditio

If a dying, crippled Ohma with a little boost to put him on even grounds in terms of strength can accomplish that much, then his full potential has to be higher given that he'll be able to properly use every skill and technique at his disposal without having to worry about death knocking at his door. How much stronger does this make him? Who knows, but I feel like saying that Kuroki would still slaughter him at his best is kinda downplaying Ohma's capability's.

Ohma even showed us after deactivating the Advance, taking a major toll on his body and the injuries from Kuroki, meaning he is at his worst physically, that he can still use his skills to keep Kuroki at bay. Even with his body failing after that and taking a direct blow he could still do some damage.

Even though his last ditch Advance + Demonsbane failed, it took Kuroki sacrificing his arm to counter it, as he noted multiple times that a formless counter like that was difficult to counter or even plan for.

Also, gotta disagree with Kurkoki vs Agito being an easy win. That fight easily pushed Kuroki to his limits, with even the Beard noting that the Fang was his equal and a worthy opponent. There's a reason Kuroki still felt that we was green after the tournament and furthered his training.

And while it's true that Raian didn't use any techniques, I'd say it's not true hat he didn't try. Raian was giving it his all to beat the shit out of Ohma, it's just his personality that makes him prefer brawling to martial arts. Though if he did use his Kure Clan techniques he probably would've breezed through the rest of the tournament bar Kuroki and probably Agito since he's noted to be as strong if not stronger than Wakatsuki, and could probably increase that even further with techniques.
 
The problem is that at no point in this fight is Ouma worrying about being at death's door, only about squeezing all the power he can without affecting his technique. I do not feel after seeing the battle multiple times that top shape Ouma would be so overwhelmingly different.

Power doesn't matter nearly as much, that's the point of Niko style techniques like that. Power only mattered to make sure he could do any damage to Kuroki.

I'll disagree completely on those two points. Kuroki lost an arm against what was more or less the best possible technique the Fang could pull off at that moment, after already evolving 4 times from battling people that could push him, unleashed on him all of a sudden and with barely any time to react. An arm is pretty minimal as far as I see it, and he had 3 extremities still. I don't see Kuroki's desire to improve as very related to Agito or the others, in my mind Kuroki would keep trying to improve for the entirety of his life. Literally all of his backstory that we know is either training or fighting someone else.

As for Raian, I don't care how much he tried, techniques are the lifeblood of this manga. The only ones that don't rely on it to the same absurd extent are Wakatsuki and Julius, and despite this both of them have extensively trained and showcasen skill and coordination using their physical traits to the maximum. The techniques of the biggest clan of assassins we know off in the entire Kengan universe refined over centuries used by one of their most skilled, if not outright most skilled member with the physical stats to nearly compare to the strongest in the tournament would have produced much higher results. Like, imagine Ouma not using Niko Style, Mutenba not using any of efficient killing techniques, Gaolang not relying on any of his boxing, just using pure power. It'd be a massive difference in performance.
 
"The problem is that at no point in this fight is Ouma worrying about being at death's door, only about squeezing all the power he can without affecting his technique"

The thing is that his physical condition was severely affecting how he was fighting towards the end of the manga, as noted by several characters including Kuroki, Kazuo, Dr. Hanafuse. It's pretty hard to fight at your fullest when you're only able to move your broken body via manipulating your bruised muscles. You can only squeeze so much power out of a broken bottle.

"Power doesn't matter nearly as much, that's the point of Niko style techniques like that. Power only mattered to make sure he could do any damage to Kuroki"

True a major theme is that skill can overcome strength, but when even Kuroki notes that your injuries have robbed your fists of their usual power, I think it's clear that power does matter in this fight. It's why he wished Ohma were in his prime, as he knew his condition was preventing him from going all out. Hell, even after using his last Advance Ohma could still put up a decent fight, and he was literally going blind by that point.

The difference between the Dragon Shot and Demonsbane is that Demonsbane can literally be fired off from virtually any position, leaving basically no warning signs of when it's coming, whereas the Dragon Shot has tells as well as being limited in application. And as noted, Kuroki was the better Foresight user, hence why he was able to counter and break Agito's technique. And even then, it's noted later by Ohma that the hand that he used to break the Dragon Shot was damaged in doing so (which further shows that his statement about Agito being an equal has merit). Said master of Foresight openly stated that he was wary of facing a user of the Demonsbane of Ohma's caliber, and this was Ohma after getting his limbs mutilated by one of the strongest members of the Kengan Association. While we don't know much about Kuroki's backstory, we do know that his main goal is to find a worthy opponent, and that after fighting in the tournament against guys like Agito, he notes that he's still green. Those two things can't just be a coincidence.

Again, true about the techniques in the manga, but to saying Raian didn't try is kinda pushing it given how into that fight he was. It's noted how he likes to dominate his opponents by using his full strength to brutalize them, which is what we saw with his bout with Mokichi and Ohma. That's just his style. There's also the fact that he literally used 100% of his strength to try and beat Possessing Spirit Ohma, so much so that he burnt through his stamina, and still wanted to continue fighting using his own personal style, because that's who he is. Ohma was weaker, there's no denying that, but he compensated with pure skill and beat Raian in a head to head fight. Raian might've have won if he used his Kure techniques, but just because he didn't use them doesn't mean he's not fighting seriously. It just that his way of expressing himself in battle is by using everything he's got to pummel his opponent. Although, Raian himself notes that he's rusty with the Kure style due to not using, so how efficiently he could have used them to aid him in battle is a pretty much unknown at best.
 
Wait so are we giving Demonsbane a varied rating? Cuz it really depends on how strong his opponent is - if it's just a regular human Demonsbane won't be much more powerful than his base 9B.
 
Ohma page in general could use an overhaul in general tbh

He should have information analysis just from his feats against Medicine Man and Ryo Inaba, and should get stat amping via Adamantine Kata for his striking strength and durability
 
The clash of that rough lover lip and that clean looking uper face...

Also, a stubble or a more refined beard would actually look real nice on Agito.
 
All I want is a SoL series about Agito's life as a tough biker dude out in the desert

Also, here's a scary thought: Wakatsuki's super muscles combined with Saw Paing's super skeleton.

Literally invincible
 
I don't think it's possible to combine those and I'm thankful. Meanwhile I am wondering how's Saw doing and how much better Rihito is now. Alongside if anyone else would have Ohma's Advance ability
 
The main issue with the feat is that it was done via foresight/pre-initiative, which means he can read the intent of an attack and move to intercept it before it gets a chance to move on him.

This completely messes up the timeframe of when Kuroki moves to block the bullet and when the bullet is actually fired.

Though, that doesn't mean we still can't give him a speed rating with Motionless like with do with Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) and his Spider-Sense
 
Everyone can still react to Bando and his whip arms that are so fast that no normal person in the stadium can see it, and even a fighter like Terry that was among the best prospects before getting beat by Ouma can barely and vaguely notice the movement.
 
Well it exists I guess.

I feel that it is just when the bullet started to move. We do see Niko change stance even with bullets on their way to him. Or maybe that image was a mistake.
 
Well the thing is that it's specifically noted in that scene that Niko did that via calculating the bullets trajectory and then deflecting it accordingly, so it's kinda hard to judge
 
No doubt he predicted the trajectory, just that he moved to position his arms and legs all while bullets are just a few meters away from him, travelling at I assume 390-426 m/s.
 
I dunno, I always felt like aim dodging feats were super hard to judge due to the fact that there's several factors going on.

At least we have confirmed supersonic Ohma due to his whip feat. Plus, I'm pretty sure Akoya has a bullet timing feat during his flashback chapter with his body armor (which he should totally get as optional equipment btw)
 
Oh, the page says that the projectile must be in motion within the same panel as the dude, followed by the dodge in the next panel. Akoya's one is harder to judge now since he could have moved just before the bullet was fired, I may have to re-read though.
 
All I remember is that the bullet had just barely hit his afterimage by the time he had crossed over and reached the guy who tried to shoot him

And also yes, his armor is cool. Hope we see it at some point in Omega
 
As of the latest chapter? Hard to gauge but I think he's reaching the level of that dude with the perforating kick, if not there already. But his basics are getting strengthened, beyond that he doesn't quite have much.md thinks.
 
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