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Kenganverse General Discussion Board
- Thread starter Solacis
- Start date
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It is, numerous times, referred to as 'Foresight' explicitly by several people in-verse as well. It's indistinguishable from combat precognition, and it invalidates practically all of Kuroki's 'reaction' feats barring those against Kanoh since they are both masters of the same pedigree (thus, Kuroki would scale to roughly 15 ms reaction timesexplicitly).
We are outright given all of this information via narration and multiple character statements. It would be absurd to try and dismiss the author's explicitly given information
We are outright given all of this information via narration and multiple character statements. It would be absurd to try and dismiss the author's explicitly given information
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foresight, as in, premonition, right? i dont mean "vision of the future", but more like knowing what the enemy will do via clues given off and speculation
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Even if we can't/don't want to use the Kuroki bullet feat, we still have Akoya' reaction time, which Cosmo could scale to (to an extent), as well as pre-awakening Ohma dodging the tip of a whip, which was confirmed to be supersonic in the same chapter.
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That is exactly how Kirei Kotomine's precog works, and it's just listed on his profile as pseudo-precognition.Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
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precog is 'seeing the future'. hence the future. jedi for example, kinda see the future, but not with their eyes, and more with their minds. spider sense warns the user that danger is incoming, and sometimes even the direction. the sharingan can somehow see the muscle movements in lving beings and predict a full move off of that, going as far as the distance, speed, etc. none of those are what kuroki and co have, except for the sharingan, but the sharingan sint a guess, its facts and info given to the user. kuroki purely speculates
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If we decide to try and use Ciruno's version of the calc, we should see if DMUA can check it since he also did a version per my request.
Also, I don't know if it would count, but couldn't we use Hatsumi's feat of going limp at nearly the very moment of impact from Bandou's arm whip? From the narration, the implication seems to be that he thinks is going one way but realizes its not soon after.
Also, I don't know if it would count, but couldn't we use Hatsumi's feat of going limp at nearly the very moment of impact from Bandou's arm whip? From the narration, the implication seems to be that he thinks is going one way but realizes its not soon after.
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I think DMUA is safer imo.
Also even if we don't use this speed calc... We still have Bandai's whip attack to calc. Thinking about it I should try that out.
And yeah it could definitely be a reaction feat considering the speed of that attack would mean he would be slamming to the ground at the exact same speed. And that his body went limp before he was hit.
Edit - On Kuroki, even if that's the case there's still many other feats that put them at supersonic so really the existence of the feat is not really contradicted as an outlier.
Also even if we don't use this speed calc... We still have Bandai's whip attack to calc. Thinking about it I should try that out.
And yeah it could definitely be a reaction feat considering the speed of that attack would mean he would be slamming to the ground at the exact same speed. And that his body went limp before he was hit.
Edit - On Kuroki, even if that's the case there's still many other feats that put them at supersonic so really the existence of the feat is not really contradicted as an outlier.
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Considering all of the statements about predicting movements the supersonic whip thing is probably the only hard thing to scale from.
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Meh, contradictions prove otherwise but we can focus on other feats anyway.
Namely Bando's likely above Supersonic feat considering his attack is so fast that only the sound can be heard.
Namely Bando's likely above Supersonic feat considering his attack is so fast that only the sound can be heard.
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I also feel like the whip and Bando feats are the best bet since the Kuroki feat is sorta ambiguous about whether it counts as a speed feat or precog feat
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I can keep calling a duck a cat all I want but that doesn't mean it's a cat.
Precog move or not, his arm still had to move more distance than the bullet in order to block it. The thing being predicted is when will it be shot and where it'll be aimed. It would be more justified in teh fight scenes, but even in the fight scenes Gensai's arm moves after the initial motion of Rei.
Case 1
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/m9eYoiD5Y...GJJ25gmeMA31S0WtU=s0?title=008_1549051298.png
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/LnQTBuqcC...UK3U7P-V_9QltiQB0=s0?title=009_1549051298.png
Case 2
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/O16KsQnGT...gkqdheyjzNE1DVSws=s0?title=015_1549051298.png
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Vr8_2T5MG...i27JTC96X69jrbomg=s0?title=017_1549051298.png
Look at the right arm.
You can disagree with us sure, we already agree that we shouldn't use it. But frankly don't call others battleboarders when there's legitimate debatable case on its inclusion.
I want to check with everyone.
Bando's feat can likely be scaled with everyone that can react to it and I think any Round 1 fighters and above could see it, even Terry or Jerry
Precog move or not, his arm still had to move more distance than the bullet in order to block it. The thing being predicted is when will it be shot and where it'll be aimed. It would be more justified in teh fight scenes, but even in the fight scenes Gensai's arm moves after the initial motion of Rei.
Case 1
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/m9eYoiD5Y...GJJ25gmeMA31S0WtU=s0?title=008_1549051298.png
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/LnQTBuqcC...UK3U7P-V_9QltiQB0=s0?title=009_1549051298.png
Case 2
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/O16KsQnGT...gkqdheyjzNE1DVSws=s0?title=015_1549051298.png
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/Vr8_2T5MG...i27JTC96X69jrbomg=s0?title=017_1549051298.png
Look at the right arm.
You can disagree with us sure, we already agree that we shouldn't use it. But frankly don't call others battleboarders when there's legitimate debatable case on its inclusion.
I want to check with everyone.
Bando's feat can likely be scaled with everyone that can react to it and I think any Round 1 fighters and above could see it, even Terry or Jerry
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>But frankly don't call others battleboarders
This is a battleboarding-use site, it's not a derogatory term and I'm sorry you mistook it for such. I'm honestly confused at taking umbrage at an objectively correct classification.
As to the bullet feat, we actually have zero objective frame of reference for when his arm moved in reference to the bullet's firing to measure the feat since it all occurred off-panel. That's my primary concern with that feat.
With Mikazuchi Rei I'm completely fine with that
This is a battleboarding-use site, it's not a derogatory term and I'm sorry you mistook it for such. I'm honestly confused at taking umbrage at an objectively correct classification.
As to the bullet feat, we actually have zero objective frame of reference for when his arm moved in reference to the bullet's firing to measure the feat since it all occurred off-panel. That's my primary concern with that feat.
With Mikazuchi Rei I'm completely fine with that
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The fact that he downright called the bullet slower than he thought after the fact makes me doubt how much that was just precog, offscreen or not.
What is even battle boarding though?
What is even battle boarding though?
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a mistake
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Battleboarding is, indeed, a mistake.
But a battle boarder is anybody who engages premises of debating who wins in fictive character matchups e.g. 'Could Super Saiyan 3 Goku beat Post-Crisis Superman?'; debating the meta-knowledge of their feats or analyzing how one would win, or even positing who would win is part of battleboarding culture.
Also, Kuroki saying it's slower than he thought is simply a testament to his Foresight/Premovement, honestly. It would not be an entire plot point if it were meant to be dismissed imho
But a battle boarder is anybody who engages premises of debating who wins in fictive character matchups e.g. 'Could Super Saiyan 3 Goku beat Post-Crisis Superman?'; debating the meta-knowledge of their feats or analyzing how one would win, or even positing who would win is part of battleboarding culture.
Also, Kuroki saying it's slower than he thought is simply a testament to his Foresight/Premovement, honestly. It would not be an entire plot point if it were meant to be dismissed imho
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Anyway, I think we should just leave the Kuroki feat on the backburner as there other, potentially better feats to talk about
Also, we should really discuss things like AP scaling and keys. Like if Ohma and Muteba can withstand blows from the likes of Wakatsuki, albeit with major damage. They clearly downscale, but who scales from this and how?
Also, we should really discuss things like AP scaling and keys. Like if Ohma and Muteba can withstand blows from the likes of Wakatsuki, albeit with major damage. They clearly downscale, but who scales from this and how?
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That's on me, my b on that. I thought battleboarding was being used as such considering how "It's a bunch of <Insert term here>" is very dismissive.
Battleboard = Mistake
Yeah, anyway I might have time to work on the other calc anyway. Gonna reread that chap, always fun
Hmm.... I think Wakatsuki and Julius are on a level on their own, but they can share it with Hatsumi and Kanoh due to both being praised like hell as OP, and of course Kuroki.
Ohma could at least take the blow especially when using Demonbane, and Muteba likely doesn't scale as well. Maybe barely considering how he was only able to harm Takeshi through a piercing move. So yeah maybe just barely for both considering Ohma had to go Demonsbane to defeat Takeshi.
After that we can whittle it down bit by bit to the likes of Cosmos, Setsuna, Rei, etc
Yeah, anyway I might have time to work on the other calc anyway. Gonna reread that chap, always fun
Hmm.... I think Wakatsuki and Julius are on a level on their own, but they can share it with Hatsumi and Kanoh due to both being praised like hell as OP, and of course Kuroki.
Ohma could at least take the blow especially when using Demonbane, and Muteba likely doesn't scale as well. Maybe barely considering how he was only able to harm Takeshi through a piercing move. So yeah maybe just barely for both considering Ohma had to go Demonsbane to defeat Takeshi.
After that we can whittle it down bit by bit to the likes of Cosmos, Setsuna, Rei, etc
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We'll Ohma was able to withstand Wakatsuki's blows even without Indestructible and Demonsbane, though it came with heavy damage. Muteba was able to take a Blast Core, though it obliterated his arm.
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Mhm. The only ones that directly compae to those two, even if they back scale, are Kuroki and Kanoh, Kanoh especially with his all-range one inch punch technique, which even mangled Kuroki's hand severely.
Muteba scales in the sense that his arm was completely trashed, but wasn't left out of commission. But I don't think his piercing techniques matter a lot. He's an efficient mercenary and not a fighter, he was never gonna hurt anybody by using hitting power as his main tool, so him using those techniques don't feel like much of an issue scaling wise.
Muteba scales in the sense that his arm was completely trashed, but wasn't left out of commission. But I don't think his piercing techniques matter a lot. He's an efficient mercenary and not a fighter, he was never gonna hurt anybody by using hitting power as his main tool, so him using those techniques don't feel like much of an issue scaling wise.
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Muteba does focus more on aiming for weak spots than AP, but he was able to box with Sekibayashi.
Though his pressure point attacks seem to aid against stronger opponents.
Though his pressure point attacks seem to aid against stronger opponents.
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Did a quick and dirty calc for Mikazuchi Rei's combat speed as shown against Nezu.
Ended up getting roughly Mach 2.5 for his combat speed, which would be able to directly scale to Kuroki Gensai's reactions as well as Saw Paing, and thereby apply to numerous persons in-verse.
Blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Xulrev/Mikazuchi_Rei_Speed_Calc
Ended up getting roughly Mach 2.5 for his combat speed, which would be able to directly scale to Kuroki Gensai's reactions as well as Saw Paing, and thereby apply to numerous persons in-verse.
Blog here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Xulrev/Mikazuchi_Rei_Speed_Calc
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Man Kengan Omega is so awesome. Always love how they avoid following the tropes to a T. Also I think if we do make a profile for Kanoh and the Beard I think precognition (Though limited) should be included due to what they can do to foresight. Cosmo and Kaneda too maybe, unless there's a better term for that.
And now we have resistance to precognition... In a way?
And now we have resistance to precognition... In a way?
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That's not resistance to precognition, that's just being skilled enough to outskill a skilled person's body reading.
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Oh no spoilers!
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Xulrev spoilers lol
Well predicting might've been the better term then. Ah well. That said rather than a one off ability, this seems to be more effective against people who rely on foresight. And considering this guy shown to fight Ghost is a bit of a hi tier, it's likely not everyone can do what he did.
Well predicting might've been the better term then. Ah well. That said rather than a one off ability, this seems to be more effective against people who rely on foresight. And considering this guy shown to fight Ghost is a bit of a hi tier, it's likely not everyone can do what he did.
