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i actually talked to arc about that last night
we stand on Hakari, Kashimo, and potentially gojo scaling,
we stand on Hakari, Kashimo, and potentially gojo scaling,
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Who actually scales to Gojo in speed? With feats, not chain scaling that Gege can literally contradict whenever they want
This would make Naobito scale, which is a problemNobody at all, because it's quite frankly said that Gojo is the fastest Jujutsu Sorcerer, and when he's sealed, the runner up (who blitzes every Cursed Spirit he fights) is stated to be the fastest period
Scale where? Show a feat of Naobito scaling to Naoya's mach 3 or GojoThis would make Naobito scale, which is a problem
Infinite Hakari would. Base/regular would be lowerSo Hakari scales to it and Kashimo, not Naoya.
yes ofc. Considering Base Hakari didn't try against Charles but kinda got hit and had to try after the precognition got activated he could scale higher too.Infinite Hakari would. Base/regular would be lower
it's mhs+ and it has nothing to do with Naoya unless Gege ends up showing us Naoya ~ Hakari or Kashimo. I've also calced the feat to be a slower speed of electricity aka Mach 1.6 and got Mach 6 for Hakari dodging which would put him 2x above NaoyaHow fast is the lightning feat, assuming the lightning is actually just an electrical discharge/current?
We have those at supersonic at a minimum, does the feat end up subsonic. Does that still contradict the alleged sub-low mach speeds or corroborate it?
no it doesn't??So mach 6 then, gotcha. No matter how you slice it, it contradicts the intended speed escalation.
it does if the assumption is Naoya is faster than them. Which some believeIts the literal god tiers of the verse, and you're trying to say a mid tier to maybe high tier is contradicting the escalation of speed...
dumb opinion. but we'll see how Gege handles this, if Naoya ends up being shown to be faster then the verse just becomes locked at mach 3it does if the assumption is Naoya is faster than them. Which some believe
Personally, God Tiers should scale above.dumb opinion. but we'll see how Gege handles this
depends on the conclusion of this debate.if Naoya ends up being shown to be faster then the verse just becomes locked at mach 3
It varies as it depends on WOG’s statements being contradicted or not by what was displayed and/or stated in the series. We have a page for that as well.Does VSBW consider author statements > fan calculations or the other way around? Is there an established standard on this?
No. It’s lightbimg as deacribed in the manga and per our lightning standards from the wiki. Thus we use lightning speed.it's mhs+ and it has nothing to do with Naoya unless Gege ends up showing us Naoya ~ Hakari or Kashimo. I've also calced the feat to be a slower speed of electricity aka Mach 1.6 and got Mach 6 for Hakari dodging which would put him 2x above Naoya
I never disagreed with the speed lol. And Kashimo is definitely a god tier rn, in speed and in his combat overall. And even if he's a top tier then Naoya is a mid tier in his cursed form.No. It’s lightbimg as deacribed in the manga and per our lightning standards from the wiki. Thus we use lightning speed.
kashimo is also not a god tier, he is a top tier. So scaling goes to top tiers for reactions only.
He’s not. Outside of his unknown cursed technique we have no way of outting him with the likes of 15F Sukuna and Gojo who are demonstrably >>> the likes of Hikari, Yuta, etc.I never disagreed with the speed lol. And Kashimo is definitely a god tier rn, in speed and in his combat overall. And even if he's a top tier then Naoya is a mid tier in his cursed form.
This is just to clarify we have a page on standards for statements in general. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements?so=searchIt varies as it depends on WOG’s statements being contradicted or not by what was displayed and/or stated in the series. We have a page for that as well.
All your assumed scaling can be debunked within a couple chapters from Gege herself so what you say rn could literally not matter.He’s not. Outside of his unknown cursed technique we have no way of outting him with the likes of 15F Sukuna and Gojo who are demonstrably >>> the likes of Hikari, Yuta, etc.
Sukuna literally fodderized Jogo casually, unless you think Kashimo can replicate that there is no standard for him being on that level.
Maki herself just got done slaughtering a whole clan and was compared to Toji who was capable of fodderizing Geto, who at the time was one of the strongest sorcerors, so Maki nayurally should be around current Yuta, Hikari, etc.
so it still breaks the scaling since naoya alive and as a curse gave her trouble.
No, we have established hierarchies based on feats. this is an argument from ignorance anyway, lest I could use this logic against anything. Until it happens it doesn't matter.All your assumed scaling can be debunked within a couple chapters from Gege herself so what you say rn could literally not matter.
It doesn't change the fact that Gojo and company are still leagues above Kashimo. He's a top tier not a god tier.And the god tiers can have different levels of power within them, Kashimo doesn't need to fully scale to them at all, I'm mostly talking about speed and rn Kashimo has the greatest speed scaling compared to Sukuna and Gojo.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree because I see absolutely no evidence for this. Jogo's durability is also not bad, given that he literally survived point blank red and multiple hits from Gojo, in addition to surviving Sukuna's hits and being able to keep fighting.Yes I think Kashimo can destroy Jogo, considering how shitty Jogo's durability is I see no issue with that, same with Yuta, Hakari, Ryu, and Uro.
Ok? Getou's curses aren't going to help his stats and he still had strong curses as we saw with his imaginary vengeful spirit.Maki's compared to Toji who beat a much weaker Geto who didn't have the curses he had in vol 0 so idk why Young Geto is impressive especially when the statement of him being the strongest is a self proclaimed statement and has no feats to back it.
I mean, you can think that, but he clearly is given how he casually fodderized Dagon, Getou, and is the only person with a W > Gojo.and sorry but Toji just isn't on the level of Yuta, Hakari, Kashimo, Ryu or Uro.
Not yetKashimo ~ Hakari > Gojo
His durability is far lower than Hanami's who got oneshot by Gojo's amplified Infinity..
Then we'll have to agree to disagree because I see absolutely no evidence for this. Jogo's durability is also not bad, given that he literally survived point blank red and multiple hits from Gojo, in addition to surviving Sukuna's hits and being able to keep fighting.
How did you come about this?the cockroach curse who isn't on Jogo's level
Ryu was defeated by his own blast and Uro was defeated by Ryu....and obviously, he beat Ryu and Uro. they are all top tiers, not god tiers.
He obviously got much stronger as a sorcerer over time.Ok? Getou's curses aren't going to help his stats and he still had strong curses as we saw with his imaginary vengeful spirit.
Didn't he proceed to get fodderized by Gojo once they got out into Open space without a Star Plasma vessel to protect either?I mean, you can think that, but he clearly is given how he casually fodderized Dagon, Getou, and is the only person with a W > Gojo.
We have established hierarchies that get changed in a matter of a couple chapters, and what feats are you talking about?No, we have established hierarchies based on feats. this is an argument from ignorance anyway, lest I could use this logic against anything. Until it happens it doesn't matter.
You can not prove Gojo scales to Kashimo's speed or Hakari's speed at all with feats, your upscaling only works if there's prior scaling to support it otherwise you are blindly scaling them beyond what they've shown, let's not ignore the author like you want to do.It doesn't change the fact that Gojo and company are still leagues above Kashimo. He's a top tier not a god tier.
Gojo and Sukuna upscale from Kashimo, as that's how upscaling works.
Red has no scaling to put it up to Kashimo or Hakari or Yuta. Gojo was clearly not trying againt Jogo, Sukuna's punches can't even kill Mahoraga but once he uses dismantle Jogo can not tank any of it. Can we not try scaling Jogo to Gojo and SukunaThen we'll have to agree to disagree because I see absolutely no evidence for this. Jogo's durability is also not bad, given that he literally survived point blank red and multiple hits from Gojo, in addition to surviving Sukuna's hits and being able to keep fighting.
Yuta needed low-mid effort to defeat the cockroach curse who isn't on Jogo's level and obviously, he beat Ryu and Uro. they are all top tiers, not god tiers.
You have no way of scaling the lady curse at all. Yeah their portrayal is prior to the numerous of new curses that people scale to now, All you've done is scale Geto above nameless cursed users, Nanami, Naobito, Naoya and Yuki who's scaling is all below Hakari or Yuta.Ok? Getou's curses aren't going to help his stats and he still had strong curses as we saw with his imaginary vengeful spirit.
Getou and Gojo were widely considered the best sorcerers at the time, hence why they were given the protection mission, and while not fully equal, Getou was one of the closest to Gojo at that point, who even as a child, put fear into Toji and the whole gammit of illegal sorcerers so much they all quit their day jobs.
So his portrayal/hype is certainly usable.
bruh, did we read the same manga? Toji literally didn't think he could beat Gojo at his full stamina self, the star plasma religion didn't think Toji would win, Toji needed a curse technique nullifying cursed tool to beat Gojo, that thing you call a "W" is not a W my guy. Do you genuinely think Hakari and Yuta or Ryu, the guy with the greatest output of curse energy, could not destroy Dagon??I mean, you can think that, but he clearly is given how he casually fodderized Dagon, Getou, and is the only person with a W > Gojo.
I can't really argue that (as hanami is tougher) but getting one shot at point blank by a serious Gojo isn't necessarily something that should be indicating Hanami (and Jogo by proxy) has bad durability.His durability is far lower than Hanami's who got oneshot by Gojo's amplified Infinity.
That's true, I never said Jogo was Sukuna level though. I just said he was able to actually not get one shotted by Sukuna who was testing him. Sukuna even told Jogo that he was indeed strong, just not on his level.Sukuna was casual all through the fight with him and oneshot him when he felt like it, without his Signature CT
He was beat very hastily by Yuta who defeated him with pure physicals and RC energy. Even Yuji was able to somewhat keep up with Yuta and surprise him. the cockroach didn't really have anything but hax and some decent AOE.How did you come about this?
That doesn't really change the fact that Yuta beat them though. Out of the 3 it was pretty clear that while relatively on the same tier, Yuta was demonstrably the strongest.Ryu was defeated by his own blast and Uro was defeated by Ryu....
I never stated they didn't. I stated that at the time those two were largely considered top tier sorcerers in the organization. Toji absolutely fodderized geto. If we saw someone absolutely humiliate someone like Nanami, then we would posit they are pretty high up the foodchain.He obviously got much stronger as a sorcerer over time.
Gojo especially
I mean not really? Toji was taken a back that Gojo was even alive after he "killed" him, and Gojo began the fight with red (which Toji had no knowledge of) which sent him flying and which Toji tanked. The moment Toji went to get serious Gojo pulled out Purple and erased his left torso. So Gojo's win was a lot more about his new techniques and mastery of infinity than Toji being fodderized.Didn't he proceed to get fodderized by Gojo once they got out into Open space without a Star Plasma vessel to protect either?
I mean, that's a part of his skillset.He held a massive advantage against sorcerers due to ISOH too
The scaling should go to everyone on Hakari/Yuta scaling. Statements put Yuta and Hikari roughly equal. which would mean Kashimo, Hakari, Yuta, Uro, Ryo, Gojo, Sukuna, etc would get it. I'd also argue Maki should get it, but ya know, mach 3 and all of that. So I'd be willing to wait on her and see how she interacts with other characters.sukuna and gojo scaling to kashimo and hakari is fine
No clue how others would would be justified to scale
Is that statement also referring to the bonus given by his domain or just his base stateThe scaling should go to everyone on Hakari/Yuta scaling. Statements put Yuta and Hikari roughly equal. which would mean Kashimo, Hakari, Yuta, Uro, Ryo, Gojo, Sukuna, etc would get it. I'd also argue Maki should get it, but ya know, mach 3 and all of that. So I'd be willing to wait on her and see how she interacts with other characters.
It was stated that Yuta is second to Gojo in the hierarchy, and Yuta replied modestly that the place belonged to Hikari as he's troublesome to deal with when he's on a roll. The narration also placed Yuta as second behind Gojo though, so they are roughly equal so I see it as Yuta >= Hikari, the latter being able to be on par when maxing his domain.Is that statement also referring to the bonus given by his domain or just his base state
In unusual abilities not anything else.It was stated that Yuta is second to Gojo in the hierarchy
No? Yuta has well been established as second in JJ association behind Gojo.In unusual abilities not anything else.