Jubileus and Aesir upgrade?

[Valiant_Abyss]

Kep's only giving us another reason to downgrade God of War

in that case might as well nerf dante, mundus, sparda, ect.

 

[GrathOfLux]

Well, the only reason the merging feat in DMC was accepted as Possibly Low 2-C was because of evidence that both the time and space of the dimensions were being affected. I think what Kep is saying is that they are still within the same space-time continuum, and that only the space is being affected, which is just very far beyond baseline 3-A. As far as I understand, the fact that affecting space-only across the same time-space continuum in a merging feat is just 3-A, however, evidence that they are in different time-space continuum's or that the merging would affect both space and time would upgrade the feat to Low 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The later is the case here, as both Aesir and full power Jubileus has the power to completely recreate space-time

 

[GrathOfLux]

I see. Kepe seemed to be doubtful, so I think we should get his response.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah, Aesir is very likely Low 2-C, but because of another feat entirely - the fact that he implied he'd reset space and time. The feat in the OP, however, is just 3-A.

 

[GrathOfLux]

Ah, I see. I've misunderstood.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

well he had two posts that contradict each other so I wanna hear the direct opinion

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

About how many people agreeing do we need to pass this?

 

[Kepekley23]

I dont think Kep disagrees so much as he's making a clarification

^ He's right.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Ok so

Agree-8

Disagree-0

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

About how many people agreeing do we need to pass?

 

[Kepekley23]

I think this thread should be closed until Weekly's thread, considering the feat proposed isn't Low 2-C, only 3-A, and the Low 2-C feat worth of discussion will be almost certainly more controversial.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh no i want this done now

 

[Kepekley23]

Why not make a thread for the actual Low 2-C feat, then?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is the thread for the actual Low 2-C feat, i already discussed it earlier in the thread and everyone agreed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It sounds most accurate to say Kep is more neutral rather than agreeing or disagreeing; rather he's making clarifications as mentioned above.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Yeah, the feat in OP is actually 3-A, not Low 2-C.

Waiting for an actual Low 2-C feat to come.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It already has, the destruction and recreation of space-time that both me and Kep already brought up

 

[Kepekley23]

• The time has come for Jubileus to return! At last, the Trinity of Realities will know their real ruler, and time will begin anew!"

• "Each clan, working at the behest of the powers that be, sought to lead their fractured world towards peace. They both possessed an "Eye," said to have the power to create history, that they used to oversee the world."

• "For she was the one who saw the world through innocent eyes, and she was the one who could give rise to a new history. It was her energy that could awaken the Left Eye. This has all worked out splendidly. Let us begin, Cereza. The time is at hand. Now the resurrection of Jubileus shall be completed. We are the eyes, overseeing the world. We are the eyes, overseeing a new era... A new reality... To which we will devote ourselves eternally. May Jubileus, the Creator, grace all of its creations!"

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Thank you Kep i was just looking for those lol

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

'Kay, now that's good stuff.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

* The time has come for Jubileus to return! At last, the Trinity of Realities will know their real ruler, and time will begin anew!"

• "Each clan, working at the behest of the powers that be, sought to lead their fractured world towards peace. They both possessed an "Eye," said to have the power to create history, that they used to oversee the world."

• "For she was the one who saw the world through innocent eyes, and she was the one who could give rise to a new history. It was her energy that could awaken the Left Eye. This has all worked out splendidly. Let us begin, Cereza. The time is at hand. Now the resurrection of Jubileus shall be completed. We are the eyes, overseeing the world. We are the eyes, overseeing a new era... A new reality... To which we will devote ourselves eternally. May Jubileus, the Creator, grace all of its creations!"

so this would put both jubilues and aesir in low 2-C, correct?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

full Power Jubileus, Full Power Sheba, and Aesir would all be Low 2-C

 

[Dienomite22]

So all the full powered gods would be low 2-C or likely low 2-C

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Solidly Low 2-C

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

how many agreements with this upgrade do we need to proceed?

 

[Kepekley23]

Azzy could give his input as well.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

so if jubileus at full power were to be upped to low 2-C would her weakend form stay at high 4-C? because its implied that jubileus would be able to merge the majority of the trinity but not entirly so would that put her weakend at somewhere between 3-C - possibly 3-A?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes she'd stay at High 4-C

 

[Starter_Pack]

So, as I'm not really filled in on Bayonetta's lore, who would this Low 2-C feat scale to in-verse?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As of right now it would only scale to Aesir, Full power Jubileus, and Full Power Sheba, but im going to be making a thread soon that would give scaling to end game bayonetta 2 Bayonetta and full power Rodin

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

jubileus because her feat is the one were discussing, aesir because he created the eyes and is said of being capable of pulling off the same feat and is potentally stronger than jubileus, and Queen Sheba because shes considered jubileus' equal

 

[Dienomite22]

As of right now it would only scale to Aesir, Full power Jubileus, and Full Power Sheba, but im going to be making a thread soon that would give scaling to end game bayonetta 2 Bayonetta and full power Rodi

Interesting, I would like to see how Bayo would scale to this, good luck with the CRT

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

well considering bayo did hold her own against aesir and was able to harm him it is possible to scale the two and because the in game lore says a holder of one of the eyes of the world would be granted the power of creation and could change history. Plus when you think about it when bayo held her own against aesir she didnt have the left eye but I dont know if holding you own against a potentally low 2-C character would count as a low 2-C feat

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'd rather we wait until i make the revision to discuss their scaling

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I'd rather we wait until i make the revision to discuss their scaling

I agree talk about the current upgrade to these characters in this thread, worry about the scaling in another thread

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

8 agreements with the upgrade so far would anyone else like to board the train?

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

They are definitely at least 3-A. That much is undeniable from the innumerable quotes stating the Trinity would be fused into one and that a new universe/reality/world would be created, with the old one destroyed in the process.

About the Low 2-C rating however, from what I recall of Bayonetta, the context of the whole "a new history will be created" or "time will begin again" statements are less that space and time would be resetted, but more about the fact that all traces and all relics left behind by the past, would be destroyed, and that the new universe would have its own history, and its own era. The "memories of time" is a theme across both games:

For example, the Journal's Echoes notes about the Eyes of the World and this concept:

• "Strange events sometimes work their way into our everyday lives . . . flashbacks from places you have no memory of, a kid who suddenly starts speaking a foreign tongue, or a voice in your head that ends up saving your life . . . These are said to happen when people come into contact with the remnants of memory left behind in this world by God. The God of the human realm had special eyes that could see all existence and happenings across the Earth. They could see the fate of whomever they gazed upon--their present, past and future. Everything. God loved the human world, and his kind heart began to feel sadness for mankind. He decided to commit to memory every detail of their fleeting lives, almost like you'd take a photo. . . . These are known as the remnants of memory. They usually can't be seen or felt, but the truth in these memories could be anywhere: you could be standing within God's memories right now."

Since the Eyes of the World, as stated above, possess the power to view the past, the present and the future.

So this statement?

• "They both possessed an "Eye," said to have the power to create history, that they used to oversee the world."

This is nothing more than a reference to the memories of time. We know the context is the same because of the following statements:

• "Long since erased from the records of time, there once existed two European clans who served as overseers of history for the powers that be: The Umbra Witches, dwellers of the darkness, and the Lumen Sages, controllers of light."

• "Long have two eyes, one light and one dark, watched over the world and its history."

"History" is used interchangeably with the past and its relics in this context. We saw from the above excerpt how the Eyes could oversee history; they had the power to see the future, the past, and the present, and record them. This is the context of "creating" and "giving rise to a new history". This is even more evident when you look at the full quote for the latter statement:

• "And now it is done. The Right Eye oversees the light, the Left Eye oversees the darkness. Two eyes to oversee the world. It was never the woman known as "Bayonetta" that I set my sights upon. It was you as a child, Cereza, that I sought. For she was the one who saw the world through innocent eyes, and she was the one who could give rise to a new history."

This statement by Balder also further establishes the context:

• "Your years of slumber have caused you to forget many things, even as we stand on the verge of the resurrection of the Creator... The resurrection of Jubileus. There is but one way to return your epoch of forgotten memories and open your eye of the overseer. Your uncorrupted eye had to be exposed to the history it could not see."

History refers to the relics and memories of time. Bayonetta 2 just continues:

• "You don't need the Eyes of the World, love. I believe in your kind. You can create whatever future you desire."

• "Any good card player's a gambler, right? Either the world will be destroyed, or it will create its own path. Human free will will determine which way things go.

Loptr states:

• "If it comes to this... I will just begin anew. I'll return to another place in time. Create a new era. One that cowers to my will!"

Which is followed by:

• He's trying to shed his body and return to the spirit realm. He'll just be reborn in a different era.

Which further suggests that the context of the universal recreation was making a universe where history would be molded by him, as opposed to a literal spacetime reset.

So, ultimately, I agree with them being upgraded to "At least 3-A", and even "At least 3-A, possibly higher", with Bayonetta scaling as well. However, I currently don't agree with Low 2-C.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They do kinda flat out say that they would destroy and recreate time

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

It's never stated they would destroy and recreate time in those literal words, nor any synonyms. Only that time would "begin anew", that the world would have a new history, and etc.

While it's reasonable to assume at a first glance that these statements mean time and space would be literally resetted, I made arguments explaining why I believe the context disproves that interpretation.