RandomGuy2345
He/Him- 24,715
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- #281
You're going to have to convince me really well that Cinder will take Johnny seriously in the beginning of the fight.
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I was wrong here. The distance is ~46 meters, not 48.as 150 feet is ~48 meters
How about: she wants his 11-year old in an ugly costume ashes in an urn mounted to her wall. She wants him dead and killing an 11-year old is in-character.You're going to have to convince me really well that Cinder will take Johnny seriously in the beginning of the fight.
Something Cinder has many ways of tagging him for doing, he dodges, he's put herself in the way of her next attack dust or not, he tries teleporting, he gets dead.2. Though I don't believe Johnny will have time to teleport, he should have enough time to dodge, as 150 feet is ~48 meters, which is more than enough distance to react in time.
Don't get me wrong, killing people, even an 11-year-old in an ugly costume, is something Cinder would do in-character, but to say that Cinder's mindset off the bat is "I have to put this kid on a t-shirt" is a bit stretching it. The more Johnny proves to be a pest in the fight is when Cinder will realize that it's time to finish him off.How about: she wants his 11-year old in an ugly costume ashes in an urn mounted to her wall. She wants him dead and killing an 11-year old is in-character.
Only way he's dying is if she opens with her fire attack, and this also assuming Johnny wouldn't go for his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, which just takes 1 clap to activate, which would do numbers to Cinder.Something Cinder has many ways of tagging him for doing, he dodges, he's put herself in the way of her next attack dust or not, he tries teleporting, he gets dead.
Cinder wants him dead, Cinder has the means to make him dead, I don't see the issue with saying she'd try and kill him immediately.Don't get me wrong, killing people, even an 11-year-old in an ugly costume, is something Cinder would do in-character, but to say that Cinder's mindset off the bat is "I have to put this kid on a t-shirt" is a bit stretching it. The more Johnny proves to be a pest in the fight is when Cinder will realize that it's time to finish him off.
Only way he's dying is if she opens with her fire attack, and this also assuming Johnny wouldn't go for his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, which just takes 1 clap to activate, which would do numbers to Cinder.
Same applies for Johnny (SBA exists for a reason), so by your logic, Johnny would try and go for the kill immediately. But no, that wouldn't work, because that's bloodlust.Cinder wants him dead, Cinder has the means to make him dead, I don't see the issue with saying she'd try and kill him immediately.
I just explained that Johnny would avoid the first hit, and immediately use his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, as he realizes that Cinder isn't playing around (which I highly doubt would happen). Cinder has no reason to want Johnny dead in the beginning of the fight, and vice versa.With how long he dicks around before using Hurricane Hands both times you just showed me Cinder can easily land a fire hit.
Cinder has literally no reason to not go for the kill, "but he looks dumb" isn't an argument. At all. You've already been told why Cinder wouldn't hold back and dick around, if you want to go forward believing that statement just doesn't exist, then you've already lost the debate.Same applies for Johnny (SBA exists for a reason), so by your logic, Johnny would try and go for the kill immediately. But no, that wouldn't work, because that's bloodlust.
I just explained that Johnny would avoid the first hit, and immediately use his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, as he realizes that Cinder isn't playing around (which I highly doubt would happen). Cinder has no reason to want Johnny dead in the beginning of the fight, and vice versa.
Going for the kill, and doing whatever it takes to do so right off the bat in a fight is literally bloodlust. This is what you're describing Cinder to be. And yes, "looking dumb" will mean that you won't get taken seriously initially in a fight most of the time, especially if the opponent you're facing doesn't know anything about you. Yes, Cinder has stopped underestimating the opponents she's faced multiple times before after getting lectured by Watts, but that doesn't mean she won't underestimate any other opponents she will face. That's just dumb.Cinder has literally no reason to not go for the kill, "but he looks dumb" isn't an argument. At all. You've already been told why Cinder wouldn't hold back and dick around, if you want to go forward believing that statement just doesn't exist, then you've already lost the debate.
Assuming if Cinder does try to attack Johnny before he gets done with his speech, he'll avoid it and start attacking immediately, as he realized that Cinder's not playing around, and it's not the time for speeches. Johnny should be capable of fighting while blind, so him looking away or closing his eyes won't even matter.She does want him dead because she's trying to win, something Johnny STILL ***** around for and sometimes doesn't even look at his opponent while making some speech or just closes his eyes
Yes, Cinder does tend to try and kill people really fastGoing for the kill, and doing whatever it takes to do so right off the bat in a fight is literally bloodlust. This is what you're describing Cinder to be. And yes, "looking dumb" will mean that you won't get taken seriously initially in a fight most of the time, especially if the opponent you're facing doesn't know anything about you. Yes, Cinder has stopped underestimating the opponents she's faced multiple times before after getting lectured by Watts, but that doesn't mean she won't underestimate any other opponents she will face. That's just dumb.
Assuming if Cinder does try to attack Johnny before he gets done with his speech, he'll avoid it and start attacking immediately, as he realized that Cinder's not playing around, and it's not the time for speeches. Johnny should be capable of fighting while blind, so him looking away or closing his eyes won't even matter.
Johnny can easily avoid the attack.Except she has no reason to just underestimate someone making a speech like an idiot, or if she did, she'd just try to kill them anyway.
Literally not even a minute in the video I'm watching where Cinder fights Pyrrha, Cinder's fire attack makes a sound. Here's the timestamp.He needs to hear Cinder's attack coming, something her fire doesn't really allow.
If he doesn't expect it coming, he'll dodge, as he won't have enough time to catch it. If you're back is facing someone, and the moment you turn around to face them, they try to punch you, the first you'll think of doing is dodging, not trying to catch the punch. If someone tries sneak punching, or just sneak attacking you in general, and you see it coming the last second, you're first instinct is to dodge.Or she could also just put him up with a dust arrow, something he'll probably try to catch and get incinerated.
Yes, Johnny can dodge an attack coming from ~46 meters away.Considering these characters are equalized to 5x the speed of sound?
Then what stops Johnny fromCinder begins aiming a bow and arrow at Johnny and fires an arrow, I don't think that would be unexpected at all if Johnny is at all paying attention to his opponent.
I'm talking about the sound mateYes, Johnny can dodge an attack coming from ~46 meters away.
Then what stops Johnny from
1. Teleporting and/or dodging
or
2. Attacking before Cinder releases her arrow
Um, okay. What're you trying to say about the sound?I'm talking about the sound mate
Since when has Cinder shown to do multiple attacks at once? I'm watching her fight against Pyrrha again, and not once does she show doing multiple attacks at once. Literally one clap, and Cinder's taking a hefty amount of damage.Cinder being able to do multiple attacks at once, he dodges one gets screwed by the other. And we know why TPing is a bad idea.
True, but that won't make it any easier for her to land attacks on Johnny.Cinder can shield and attack at the same time.
Guaranteed we're going to come back to the same points we've been using the whole thread, and it's going to be the same shit over and over again lolFunnily enough we've moved onto new points... at this point. Lol
It's too slow, and in fact slower then either character.Um, okay. What're you trying to say about the sound?
Since when has Cinder shown to do multiple attacks at once? I'm watching her fight against Pyrrha again, and not once does she show doing multiple attacks at once. Literally one clap, and Cinder's taking a hefty amount of damage.
True, but that won't make it any easier for her to land attacks on Johnny.
I can think of plenty of times people have moved out of the way of Cinder’s attacks. They aren’t dozens of times faster than her, they would instantly blitz anyone she shot at if they were. Johnny would have enough time to clap his hands.Also @Keeweed your misinterpreting how speed equal works, if something is really fast for one character, it'll be really fast for both characters. Cinder's ranged stuff is pretty fast for her and everyone else.
Plus your argument about dust is like, what Cinder wants.
Neopolotin.Johnny can literally teleport while nobody else in Rwby can do that. How would they be more evasive. At the very worst, the attack Johnny needs to dodge the most (the sudden spawning fire balls) can be dodged with a big back step. He doesn’t need Bayonetta levels of evasion to dodge.
How would thunderclap be too slow. Speed is equalized so unless Johnny is 150 times slower than the fire ball he should be able to clap his hands together. If she shoots an arrow at him he can heal from it and resist it with his durability.
See what I said above.Um... no it's not. Even if it is, Johnny would be able to see an attack coming from 150 feet away.
Scans.
What @Keeweed said.
Is her teleportation as good as Johnny's?Neopolotin.
True.When did I EVER say that the clap would be too slow, I said the sound of the fire is too slow, don't ignore context with me.
Pain Tolerance says no. Also assuming that Cinder can connect with this.Also piercing damage wheeze laughs at Test negging it with durability.
Better in terms of how fast it goes off. Worse in terms of range.Is her teleportation as good as Johnny's?
True.
Pain Tolerance says no. Also assuming that Cinder can connect with this.
Uhhhh, Cinder was very comparable to Neo for most of that fight. Yes, the ladder gave up when Cinder flipped the switch on her Maiden powers, but no shit she did cause Maiden powers OP plz nerf.For one, Cinder doesn’t scale to Neo’s evasion she ran circles around Cinder for most the fight and gave up when Cinder brought out the demigod AoE. And to rephrase my point, he doesn’t need to dodge he has a way to shield himself. (Neo can’t teleport, just want to point that out because I see @random is confused by that)
Wait now I’m super confused, can you rephrase your point, I’ll read real closely this time.
Piercing damage would ignore the skin but I highly doubt it would ignore the bones, bullets have higher ap than human durability and they still fail at piercing bones sometimes. Though he doesn’t need to face tank, he can heal.
Also while I used to think teleportation was pointless, it isn’t anymore. Cinder does get as annoyed as I thought so she won’t just repeatedly spam AoE fire death at Johnny every half second of seeing him. If he teleports out of the way of the first hit he can set up his tornado.
Oh. Okay then.Better in terms of how fast it goes off. Worse in terms of range.
Then Johnny just avoids it.I never said the pain tolorance wouldn't mean anything.... also that arrow would be a dust arrow and we know how that ends.
Would he avoid or catch it? Cause if he's got even half a brain he'll be seeing it.Then Johnny just avoids it.
Can't say much on the Cinder vs Neo fight. Need to re-watch that.
If she goes for an arrow off the bat while Johnny's giving a speech, then he'll dodge it. He likes to teleport a lot anyway, so he'll definitely dodge it.Would he avoid or catch it? Cause if he's got even half a brain he'll be seeing it.
I don't think Reaper's point was that the arrow was faster. At least, I think so.(even assuming it is 15 times faster)
Yeah, I need to start clarifying the distances between characters for my future matchups.(hey it’s vastly better than SBA, 4 kilometers would be ridiculous for this fight).