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Johnny Test vs Cinder Fall

You're going to have to convince me really well that Cinder will take Johnny seriously in the beginning of the fight.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
You're going to have to convince me really well that Cinder will take Johnny seriously in the beginning of the fight.
Click to expand...
How about: she wants his 11-year old in an ugly costume ashes in an urn mounted to her wall. She wants him dead and killing an 11-year old is in-character.
RandomGuy2345 said:
2. Though I don't believe Johnny will have time to teleport, he should have enough time to dodge, as 150 feet is ~48 meters, which is more than enough distance to react in time.
Click to expand...
Something Cinder has many ways of tagging him for doing, he dodges, he's put herself in the way of her next attack dust or not, he tries teleporting, he gets dead.
 
DaReaperMan said:
How about: she wants his 11-year old in an ugly costume ashes in an urn mounted to her wall. She wants him dead and killing an 11-year old is in-character.
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, killing people, even an 11-year-old in an ugly costume, is something Cinder would do in-character, but to say that Cinder's mindset off the bat is "I have to put this kid on a t-shirt" is a bit stretching it. The more Johnny proves to be a pest in the fight is when Cinder will realize that it's time to finish him off.

DaReaperMan said:
Something Cinder has many ways of tagging him for doing, he dodges, he's put herself in the way of her next attack dust or not, he tries teleporting, he gets dead.
Click to expand...
Only way he's dying is if she opens with her fire attack, and this also assuming Johnny wouldn't go for his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, which just takes 1 clap to activate, which would do numbers to Cinder.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Don't get me wrong, killing people, even an 11-year-old in an ugly costume, is something Cinder would do in-character, but to say that Cinder's mindset off the bat is "I have to put this kid on a t-shirt" is a bit stretching it. The more Johnny proves to be a pest in the fight is when Cinder will realize that it's time to finish him off.


Only way he's dying is if she opens with her fire attack, and this also assuming Johnny wouldn't go for his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, which just takes 1 clap to activate, which would do numbers to Cinder.
Click to expand...
Cinder wants him dead, Cinder has the means to make him dead, I don't see the issue with saying she'd try and kill him immediately.

With how long he dicks around before using Hurricane Hands both times you just showed me Cinder can easily land a fire hit.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Cinder wants him dead, Cinder has the means to make him dead, I don't see the issue with saying she'd try and kill him immediately.
Click to expand...
Same applies for Johnny (SBA exists for a reason), so by your logic, Johnny would try and go for the kill immediately. But no, that wouldn't work, because that's bloodlust.

DaReaperMan said:
With how long he dicks around before using Hurricane Hands both times you just showed me Cinder can easily land a fire hit.
Click to expand...
I just explained that Johnny would avoid the first hit, and immediately use his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, as he realizes that Cinder isn't playing around (which I highly doubt would happen). Cinder has no reason to want Johnny dead in the beginning of the fight, and vice versa.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Same applies for Johnny (SBA exists for a reason), so by your logic, Johnny would try and go for the kill immediately. But no, that wouldn't work, because that's bloodlust.


I just explained that Johnny would avoid the first hit, and immediately use his Tornado/Hurricane Hands, as he realizes that Cinder isn't playing around (which I highly doubt would happen). Cinder has no reason to want Johnny dead in the beginning of the fight, and vice versa.
Click to expand...
Cinder has literally no reason to not go for the kill, "but he looks dumb" isn't an argument. At all. You've already been told why Cinder wouldn't hold back and dick around, if you want to go forward believing that statement just doesn't exist, then you've already lost the debate.

"Something Cinder has many ways of tagging him for doing, he dodges, he's put herself in the way of her next attack dust or not, he tries teleporting, he gets dead."

She does want him dead because she's trying to win, something Johnny STILL ***** around for and sometimes doesn't even look at his opponent while making some speech or just closes his eyes
 
DaReaperMan said:
Cinder has literally no reason to not go for the kill, "but he looks dumb" isn't an argument. At all. You've already been told why Cinder wouldn't hold back and dick around, if you want to go forward believing that statement just doesn't exist, then you've already lost the debate.
Click to expand...
Going for the kill, and doing whatever it takes to do so right off the bat in a fight is literally bloodlust. This is what you're describing Cinder to be. And yes, "looking dumb" will mean that you won't get taken seriously initially in a fight most of the time, especially if the opponent you're facing doesn't know anything about you. Yes, Cinder has stopped underestimating the opponents she's faced multiple times before after getting lectured by Watts, but that doesn't mean she won't underestimate any other opponents she will face. That's just dumb.

DaReaperMan said:
She does want him dead because she's trying to win, something Johnny STILL ***** around for and sometimes doesn't even look at his opponent while making some speech or just closes his eyes
Click to expand...
Assuming if Cinder does try to attack Johnny before he gets done with his speech, he'll avoid it and start attacking immediately, as he realized that Cinder's not playing around, and it's not the time for speeches. Johnny should be capable of fighting while blind, so him looking away or closing his eyes won't even matter.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Going for the kill, and doing whatever it takes to do so right off the bat in a fight is literally bloodlust. This is what you're describing Cinder to be. And yes, "looking dumb" will mean that you won't get taken seriously initially in a fight most of the time, especially if the opponent you're facing doesn't know anything about you. Yes, Cinder has stopped underestimating the opponents she's faced multiple times before after getting lectured by Watts, but that doesn't mean she won't underestimate any other opponents she will face. That's just dumb.


Assuming if Cinder does try to attack Johnny before he gets done with his speech, he'll avoid it and start attacking immediately, as he realized that Cinder's not playing around, and it's not the time for speeches. Johnny should be capable of fighting while blind, so him looking away or closing his eyes won't even matter.
Click to expand...
Yes, Cinder does tend to try and kill people really fast

Except she has no reason to just underestimate someone making a speech like an idiot, or if she did, she'd just try to kill them anyway.

He needs to hear Cinder's attack coming, something her fire doesn't really allow.
 
Or she could also just put him up with a dust arrow, something he'll probably try to catch and get incinerated.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Except she has no reason to just underestimate someone making a speech like an idiot, or if she did, she'd just try to kill them anyway.
Click to expand...
Johnny can easily avoid the attack.

DaReaperMan said:
He needs to hear Cinder's attack coming, something her fire doesn't really allow.
Click to expand...
Literally not even a minute in the video I'm watching where Cinder fights Pyrrha, Cinder's fire attack makes a sound. Here's the timestamp.

DaReaperMan said:
Or she could also just put him up with a dust arrow, something he'll probably try to catch and get incinerated.
Click to expand...
If he doesn't expect it coming, he'll dodge, as he won't have enough time to catch it. If you're back is facing someone, and the moment you turn around to face them, they try to punch you, the first you'll think of doing is dodging, not trying to catch the punch. If someone tries sneak punching, or just sneak attacking you in general, and you see it coming the last second, you're first instinct is to dodge.
 
Which would put him in the way of her next attack, this is a Merry-go-round.

Considering these characters are equalized to 5x the speed of sound?

Cinder begins aiming a bow and arrow at Johnny and fires an arrow, I don't think that would be unexpected at all if Johnny is at all paying attention to his opponent.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Considering these characters are equalized to 5x the speed of sound?
Click to expand...
Yes, Johnny can dodge an attack coming from ~46 meters away.

DaReaperMan said:
Cinder begins aiming a bow and arrow at Johnny and fires an arrow, I don't think that would be unexpected at all if Johnny is at all paying attention to his opponent.
Click to expand...
Then what stops Johnny from
1. Teleporting and/or dodging
or
2. Attacking before Cinder releases her arrow
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Yes, Johnny can dodge an attack coming from ~46 meters away.


Then what stops Johnny from
1. Teleporting and/or dodging
or
2. Attacking before Cinder releases her arrow
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the sound mate

Cinder being able to do multiple attacks at once, he dodges one gets screwed by the other. And we know why TPing is a bad idea.

Cinder can shield and attack at the same time.
 
Really shocked that this thread still hasn't come to a conclusion yet.

Reaper and I are basically saying the same points over and over again, and it's going nowhere.
 
DaReaperMan said:
I'm talking about the sound mate
Click to expand...
Um, okay. What're you trying to say about the sound?

DaReaperMan said:
Cinder being able to do multiple attacks at once, he dodges one gets screwed by the other. And we know why TPing is a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Since when has Cinder shown to do multiple attacks at once? I'm watching her fight against Pyrrha again, and not once does she show doing multiple attacks at once. Literally one clap, and Cinder's taking a hefty amount of damage.

DaReaperMan said:
Cinder can shield and attack at the same time.
Click to expand...
True, but that won't make it any easier for her to land attacks on Johnny.
 
SBA is that the characters are willing to kill, not that they want to. So while a cinder would go for a kill, would she go for an immediate to the throat kill. Johnny truly is a random 11 year old to her. I highly doubt she would immediately go for the AoE nuke on a literally half a second sight.

Plus Johnny doesn’t taunt til he gets himself killed. He would be dead if that is the case. Granted his character is pretty inconsistent but there are plenty of times he goes for a counter rather than just standing there (though there are so many episodes I don’t even know where to begin for examples). At the very worst if Cinder blast a wall of fire at him he would go for something other than just standing there.

When it comes to speed equalization both are the same speed so the time it would take the fire ball to travel 1 ft is the same amount of time Johnny can move 1 foot. He would have over a dozen chances to just clap his hands for the tornado to disperse her fire. And from that point what happens is very messy. Though I still don’t see how Cinder gets past the wind. The dust would either be dispersed or destroyed. He has a two times ap advantage and regeneration so a stray bolt of electricity or an arrow hitting him won’t just immediately win Cinder the fight. So he can continue to blast her with wind, which should shred her aura (due to being an continuous attack with over two times the ap).

For the fire being magic, it’s still fire. When Cinder manipulates wind she takes natural wind and moves it. It’s properties don’t completely change. There is still no reason to assume it would have wind resistance.

Edit: like let’s not forget Johnny’s regen and durability: the only thing that kills him instantly is the fire, everything else he could pretty easily survive.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Um, okay. What're you trying to say about the sound?


Since when has Cinder shown to do multiple attacks at once? I'm watching her fight against Pyrrha again, and not once does she show doing multiple attacks at once. Literally one clap, and Cinder's taking a hefty amount of damage.


True, but that won't make it any easier for her to land attacks on Johnny.
Click to expand...
It's too slow, and in fact slower then either character.

Volume 8 Penny.

She's vastly more skilled and can tag Characters more evasive then Johnny.
 
Also @Keeweed your misinterpreting how speed equal works, if something is really fast for one character, it'll be really fast for both characters. Cinder's ranged stuff is pretty fast for her and everyone else.

Plus your argument about dust is like, what Cinder wants.
 
Johnny can literally teleport while nobody else in Rwby can do that. How would they be more evasive. At the very worst, the attack Johnny needs to dodge the most (the sudden spawning fire balls) can be dodged with a big back step. He doesn’t need Bayonetta levels of evasion to dodge.

How would thunderclap be too slow. Speed is equalized so unless Johnny is 150 times slower than the fire ball he should be able to clap his hands together. If she shoots an arrow at him he can heal from it and resist it with his durability.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Also @Keeweed your misinterpreting how speed equal works, if something is really fast for one character, it'll be really fast for both characters. Cinder's ranged stuff is pretty fast for her and everyone else.

Plus your argument about dust is like, what Cinder wants.
Click to expand...
I can think of plenty of times people have moved out of the way of Cinder’s attacks. They aren’t dozens of times faster than her, they would instantly blitz anyone she shot at if they were. Johnny would have enough time to clap his hands.
 
Keeweed said:
Johnny can literally teleport while nobody else in Rwby can do that. How would they be more evasive. At the very worst, the attack Johnny needs to dodge the most (the sudden spawning fire balls) can be dodged with a big back step. He doesn’t need Bayonetta levels of evasion to dodge.

How would thunderclap be too slow. Speed is equalized so unless Johnny is 150 times slower than the fire ball he should be able to clap his hands together. If she shoots an arrow at him he can heal from it and resist it with his durability.
Click to expand...
Neopolotin.

When did I EVER say that the clap would be too slow, I said the sound of the fire is too slow, don't ignore context with me.

Also piercing damage wheeze laughs at Test negging it with durability.
 
For one, Cinder doesn’t scale to Neo’s evasion she ran circles around Cinder for most the fight and gave up when Cinder brought out the demigod AoE. And to rephrase my point, he doesn’t need to dodge he has a way to shield himself. (Neo can’t teleport, just want to point that out because I see @random is confused by that)

Wait now I’m super confused, can you rephrase your point (on speed equalization), I’ll read real closely this time.

Piercing damage would ignore the skin but I highly doubt it would ignore the bones, bullets have higher ap than human durability and they still fail at piercing bones sometimes. Though he doesn’t need to face tank, he can heal.

Also while I used to think teleportation was pointless, it isn’t anymore. Cinder doesn’t get as annoyed as I thought so she won’t just repeatedly spam AoE fire death at Johnny every half second of seeing him. If he teleports out of the way of the first hit he can set up his tornado.
 
I watched the whole fight, and I did not see Cinder attack multiple times at once. Emerald used her illusions to make it seem like there was multiple Cinder's attacking her, if that's what you were trying to refer to, Reaper. Unless I'm missing something here.
 
Also, Johnny doesn't even need to heal. He can just fight on, as Pain Tolerance allows him to do that.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Is her teleportation as good as Johnny's?


True.


Pain Tolerance says no. Also assuming that Cinder can connect with this.
Click to expand...
Better in terms of how fast it goes off. Worse in terms of range.

I never said the pain tolorance wouldn't mean anything.... also that arrow would be a dust arrow and we know how that ends.
Keeweed said:
For one, Cinder doesn’t scale to Neo’s evasion she ran circles around Cinder for most the fight and gave up when Cinder brought out the demigod AoE. And to rephrase my point, he doesn’t need to dodge he has a way to shield himself. (Neo can’t teleport, just want to point that out because I see @random is confused by that)

Wait now I’m super confused, can you rephrase your point, I’ll read real closely this time.

Piercing damage would ignore the skin but I highly doubt it would ignore the bones, bullets have higher ap than human durability and they still fail at piercing bones sometimes. Though he doesn’t need to face tank, he can heal.

Also while I used to think teleportation was pointless, it isn’t anymore. Cinder does get as annoyed as I thought so she won’t just repeatedly spam AoE fire death at Johnny every half second of seeing him. If he teleports out of the way of the first hit he can set up his tornado.
Click to expand...
Uhhhh, Cinder was very comparable to Neo for most of that fight. Yes, the ladder gave up when Cinder flipped the switch on her Maiden powers, but no shit she did cause Maiden powers OP plz nerf.

I was responding to Random's point about fire having sound by saying that sound is too slow for it to be an indicator.

No shit.

At a range is easily anythingable.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Then Johnny just avoids it.

Can't say much on the Cinder vs Neo fight. Need to re-watch that.
Click to expand...
Would he avoid or catch it? Cause if he's got even half a brain he'll be seeing it.

Neo used her illusions and mostly fought Cinder h2h, before trying to sneak attack with a TP which was basically immediately shut down by Cinder.
 
So I just watched the Cinder vs Neo fight.

Ignoring how good the fight was, Cinder was holding her own for the most part, but she was struggling a little bit. I mean, if you have to bust out your Maiden powers to stop a 1v1 fight between you and someone else, than that says something.

DaReaperMan said:
Would he avoid or catch it? Cause if he's got even half a brain he'll be seeing it.
Click to expand...
If she goes for an arrow off the bat while Johnny's giving a speech, then he'll dodge it. He likes to teleport a lot anyway, so he'll definitely dodge it.
 
“also that arrow would be a dust arrow and we know how that ends.”

Pyrrha survived that arrow for over ten seconds. Johnny could just pull it out of him before it does it’s thing. Assuming she even goes for a dust arrow on a random eleven year old she just met and assuming the arrow even lands since (even assuming it is 15 times faster) Johnny still has 10 chances to do something (or assuming he needs to move three feet to clap his hands or hit the teleport button) that’s still three chances to dodge.

It doesn’t matter if Johnny goes for the tornado or dodges, both stop Cinder’s first moves and both Johnny within the better position.

Edit: that fight was one of the only good parts of that volume really.
 
Ok, so your message (repear’s) appeared when I typed my last one. If speed equalization was just about the sound then sorry for any inconvenience. If it was about Cinder landing a cheeky hit as the fight began, she’s not going to be able to with the distance set up here (hey it’s vastly better than SBA, 4 kilometers would be ridiculous for this fight).
 
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