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Johnny Test vs Cinder Fall

disregarding that the argument that johnny spams his big AOE of hurricane hands even though he's only ever done it once, I don't see how Johnny actually wins here, Cinder absolutely wrecks him in basically every department except for stats, and even then she has forcefields to handle Johnny's offense and kills him in any hit with Maiden Fire or an arrow, this is in Cinder's favor considering all of Johnny's options are either quite well slow(hurricane hands which he announces to the universe, Teleportation which gets him hit/predicted then hit, and poot which he only ever uses up close which gets him slaughtered) or are things Cinder has absolutely dealt with before.

Actually, why won't Johnny go up close to use his poot, again? It'll be clear Hurricane hands ain't working by Cinder still attacking so he's going to try his other options instead of beating his head against a brick wall
 
Eh, I guess I'll make one more response and call it quits.

DaReaperMan said:
disregarding that the argument that johnny spams his big AOE of hurricane hands even though he's only ever done it once, I don't see how Johnny actually wins here,
Click to expand...
1 2 3 There. However, what Johnny leads with tends to vary between his Tornado/Hurricane Hands and Power Poots. It's kinda hard to distinguish which move he'll lead with first.

DaReaperMan said:
Cinder absolutely wrecks him in basically every department except for stats,
Click to expand...
Um... what?
Cinder's Advantages:
Skill
LS
Intelligence (won't matter much)
Experience (also doesn't matter)
Correct me if I missed anything here.

Johnny's Advantages:
AP (by over 2x)
SS
Dura (that comes with Toon Force, Immense Pain Tolerance, and Elasticity)
Versatility
Probably missed some here, too.

Skill and LS are Cinder's biggest and most reliable advantages, while all of Johnny's advantages actually help him.

DaReaperMan said:
and even then she has forcefields to handle Johnny's offense
Click to expand...
Johnny has many counters to Cinder's offense.
1. TP spam
2. Hurricane Hands (which can easily counter Cinder's fire)
3. Power Poots or Heat Transformation (can counter Cinder's ice)
4. Johnny can just survive Cinder's electricity with little to no issue

Cinder's only way of winning is with her fire, which Johnny has 2 ways of countering.

DaReaperMan said:
and kills him in any hit with Maiden Fire or an arrow, this is in Cinder's favor considering all of Johnny's options are either quite well slow(hurricane hands which he announces to the universe, Teleportation which gets him hit/predicted then hit, and poot which he only ever uses up close which gets him slaughtered) or are things Cinder has absolutely dealt with before.
Click to expand...
We've already gone over that if Johnny starts giving a speech that Cinder will try attacking him before he finishes, which Johnny will be able to see coming and avoid, since the starting distance is 46 meters (150 feet), which is a little over 40% the size of the average Football field. More than enough distance for Johnny to avoid the attack. Cinder won't give him any time to announce his attack to the world, which you said will be Johnny's downfall. This is when Johnny realizes that Cinder isn't playing around, which is when Cinder is already preparing for another attack. Then Johnny can take control with one clap of his hands, which Cinder won't see coming, meaning she won't be able to guard it in time. It literally takes less than a second for the Teleportation process to go through, which I've proved many many times already. Stop downplaying it.

DaReaperMan said:
Actually, why won't Johnny go up close to use his poot, again? It'll be clear Hurricane hands ain't working by Cinder still attacking so he's going to try his other options instead of beating his head against a brick wall
Click to expand...
Dude. Hurricane Hands counters most, if not all fire attacks Cinder tries throwing at him. He doesn't even need to use his Hurricane Hands to counter it. He can Teleport, or just... simply dodge the attack. If you got an issue with Hurricane Hands cancelling out Cinder's fire, go talk with @Keeweed about it.

This is my last comment.
 
1f435.png
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
4 pages 🐵
Click to expand...
That's kinda the whole point of me asking more people to come and vote here.

This debate did not need to be 4 pages long. The thread was getting repetitive, as Reaper and I we're just doubling back to same points we said before, so I decided to ask more people to come in and vote.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Eh, I guess I'll make one more response and call it quits.


1 2 3 There. However, what Johnny leads with tends to vary between his Tornado/Hurricane Hands and Power Poots. It's kinda hard to distinguish which move he'll lead with first.


Um... what?
Cinder's Advantages:
Skill
LS
Intelligence (won't matter much)
Experience (also doesn't matter)
Correct me if I missed anything here.

Johnny's Advantages:
AP (by over 2x)
SS
Dura (that comes with Toon Force, Immense Pain Tolerance, and Elasticity)
Versatility
Probably missed some here, too.

Skill and LS are Cinder's biggest and most reliable advantages, while all of Johnny's advantages actually help him.


Johnny has many counters to Cinder's offense.
1. TP spam
2. Hurricane Hands (which can easily counter Cinder's fire)
3. Power Poots or Heat Transformation (can counter Cinder's ice)
4. Johnny can just survive Cinder's electricity with little to no issue

Cinder's only way of winning is with her fire, which Johnny has 2 ways of countering.


We've already gone over that if Johnny starts giving a speech that Cinder will try attacking him before he finishes, which Johnny will be able to see coming and avoid, since the starting distance is 46 meters (150 feet), which is a little over 40% the size of the average Football field. More than enough distance for Johnny to avoid the attack. Cinder won't give him any time to announce his attack to the world, which you said will be Johnny's downfall. This is when Johnny realizes that Cinder isn't playing around, which is when Cinder is already preparing for another attack. Then Johnny can take control with one clap of his hands, which Cinder won't see coming, meaning she won't be able to guard it in time. It literally takes less than a second for the Teleportation process to go through, which I've proved many many times already. Stop downplaying it.


Dude. Hurricane Hands counters most, if not all fire attacks Cinder tries throwing at him. He doesn't even need to use his Hurricane Hands to counter it. He can Teleport, or just... simply dodge the attack. If you got an issue with Hurricane Hands cancelling out Cinder's fire, go talk with @Keeweed about it.

This is my last comment.
Click to expand...
None of those are the 360° AOE you claim he uses all the time.

Johnny's versatility comes from things he doesn't have here, dura doesn't matter here because Cinder can and will murder Johnny in one hit, AP isn't enough to beat Cinder, and SS gets Johnny killed.

I still have plenty of issues with hurricane hands canceling out fire that burns at over 2000 degrees Fahrenheit but that's that's why i have big issues with Johnny being able to heat form or power poots her fire. It's waaaaaaaay too hot for anything in Johnny Test to tank, if he goes for power poots, he dies, simple as that.

She also has her heat Manipulation, which is just as lethal as her fire.

This relies on Cinder sitting down, beginning to **********, and praying the Hurricane Hands doesn't hit her instead of actually doing the intelligent thing and blocking it with a forcefield like anyone with common sense would do. Same applies that Cinder's attacks are fast for her, so they are actually faster then the tornado or power poots here.

To round off your arguments they rely heavily on the following: Cinder throwing common sense to the wind and doing literally nothing, Johnny never using Power Poots or Heat form as they will get him killed, and Massively overplaying how fast the actual Tornado of Hurricane Hands is(its just as fast as Johnny's combat speed, which means it is ridiculously reactable unless Johnny is literally on top of the opponent, something he doesn't wanna do here)
 
Also I just remembered the spec ops fight which has 4 8-Bs being protected from Maiden Powers(Low 7-C/7-C) wind due to aura. And they ain't some kind of outlier, it's doubtful that Johnny's wind would even do anything here because of that fight, considering Cinder's aura should be the same way, and Hurricane hands is wind... so uh... lol.
 
"Correct me if I missed anything here."

Versatility
Durability negation
A passive forcefield 2x more durable than johnny's AP
Multiple methods of bypassing or outright nullifying Johnny's main forms of attack

"Johnny's Advantages:"

2x AP is nowhere near enough to guarantee a win for Johnny especially given that Cinder's Aura alone effectively nullifies it
His durability is nowhere near high enough to prevent Cinder from harming him and he has no answer to Cinder's heat attacks which would outright turn him to ash.
Johnny is definitely not more versatile as the majority of his abilities are just his physiology and maneuverability rather than his offensive versatility

"Johnny has many counters to Cinder's offense."
1. He cant attack while TP spamming so that does not help him do anything other than move around
2. Cinder's wind manip would counteract his own as Wind manip vs wind manip comes down to lifting strength, not AP, and Cinder's dust attacks can outright bypass his hurricane hands as explained previously, and Cinder can just move around the hurricane hands or shoot around the attack as RWBY characters can casually curve bullet shots and arrows around obstacles and attacks.

"which Johnny will be able to see coming and avoid, since the starting distance is 46 meters (150 feet), which is a little over 40% the size of the average Football field."

Seeing as theyre equalized to Mach 5, Cinder would be able to cross that distance in .02 seconds. If Cinder goes for a cqc attack right away the sheer skill advantage she has over johnny pretty much guarantees that she's not going to miss especially seeing as she has feats of accurately hitting targets at range through a heavy smokescreen. Toon Force and Pain Tolerance arent saving johnny from decapitation or impalement, the former of which would kill him outright and latter of which would lead to him being incinerated. Hell, by your own logic Cinder would have an equally easy time dodging Johnny's attacks.

"Then Johnny can take control with one clap of his hands, which Cinder won't see coming, meaning she won't be able to guard it in time. It literally takes less than a second for the Teleportation process to go through, which I've proved many many times already. Stop downplaying it."

Cinder literally has a passive full body forcefield that is several times more durable than herself active at all times. Passive >>>>>>>> less than a second.

"He can Teleport, or just... simply dodge the attack."

Dodging an attack from someone lightyears more skilled than you who has experience fighting people far more slippery in combat than you are is going to be pretty damn hard.

The fact that the entire crux of the argument for Johnny essentially boils down to Cinder just standing around letting Johnny hit her and doing nothing to fight back is ridiculous. Cinder's aura alone would outright counter Johnny's methods of attack long enough for her to get a solid hit in and incinerate him as her aura would be more than enough to protect her from Hurricane Hands, seeing as in RWBY, aura has protected 8-Bs from 7-C wind attacks just like Johnny's, and cinder's aura is proportionally more durable.
 
Almost every character worth their salt in RWBY has spent their entire life training in combat and can fight hordes of Grimm with little issue (Almost because Jaune exists). The entirety of the main cast of RWBY was initially enrolled at Beacon Academy, one of the most prestigious combat schools in the world, with almost everyone who was accepted there having been trained for almost their entire life to fight monsters, and each one that was not professionally trained requiring a skill display overseen by Ozpin, who has the composite skill of several thousand professional huntsmen that he accumulated over his immortal lifetime. Thats the baseline for skill in the verse.

Before the Beacon Arc Ruby had been personally trained by her uncle Qrow in combat and as a result she was noted as always excelling above her peers in combat training. At the start of the series Ruby was at a level of skill that even though she was two years away from being eligible to join Beacon she was admitted due her combat prowess impressing Ozpin, with him noting that she was already a master at wielding one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed. In combat Ruby is capable of taking on entire hordes of Grimm on her own and walking away without a scratch and utilizing the different functionalities of the Crescent Rose, such as the massive recoil from the rifle aspect of the weapon and the weapon's transformative capabilities, in tandem with each other and her Semblance in order to maintain an edge over her opponent. Basically every named character is around this level of skill in the early seasons. Now for Velvet. Velvet is able to perfectly and instantly mimic the exact moves that she observes other people use in combat as well as utilize multiple different fighting styles simultaneously, both armed and unarmed. Thanks to Anesidora, Velvet is also able to copy fighting styles that utilize weapons, and she is able to wield the weapons that she copies just as effectively as their original user. To date that we know of, Velvet is able to simultaneously utilize the fighting styles and weapons of Ruby Rose, Yang Xiao Long, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Nora Valkyrie, Sun Wukong, Penny Polendina, Coco Adel, Peter Port, Reese Chloris, Fox Alistar, Vega Bleu, Yatsuhashi Daichi, Russel Thrush, Roy Stallion, Neptune Vasilias, Brawnz Ni, Bartholomew Oobleck, Flynt Coal, Edward Caspian, and Scarlet David. Of note, every person listed spent their entire lives training in combat and several of them are professional huntsmen with decades of combat experience.

Moving up the chain we have Nebula Violette, who not only outmatched Velvet in a 1v1 test of martial arts skill, but was directly stated to be more skilled than Velvet in combat despite Velvet mixing numerous fighting styles to try to throw her off in their fight. Above her is Pyrrha Nikos, the skill god of the Beacon Arc. Pyrrha is one of the most skilled students at Beacon Academy, having won every combat tournament she has entered since she was a pre-teen due to both her mastery of combat and mastery of her semblance, being able to apply it in combat completely undetected and having done so in almost every fight she's been in for over a decade, doing so with such skill and precision that she has lead many to believe she is untouchable and invincible as no one has been able to even land a blow on her in her combat career. Even without her semblance she has shown the ability to quickly and easily adapt to her combat situation and analyze her opponents while fighting and changing tactics to suit the situation she is in. She has shown extreme accuracy, being able to hit moving targets from hundreds of meters away and strike vital weak points on an opponent mid-combat both with and without the aid of her semblance. She is also highly skilled at using her weapon's multiple forms in combat, being able to switch between forms several times in rapid succession to both deliver rapid attacks and counter others simultaneously.

Then theres Mercury. Mercury is a veritable master of close combat, having spent his entire life training in pure martial combat to make up for his Semblance being stolen by his father. He is shown to be a very acrobatic and agile fighter who relies upon quickly overpowering his opponent with complex kicks that imply a near-mastery of martial arts that resemble Tae-Kwon-Do. He is also capable of a break-dancing style, similar to Capoeira, and makes use of Muay Thai as well. Despite his focus on kicks, Mercury also uses his hands to grapple, block or redirect enemy attacks. His experience and skill are aggressive and effective enough to drive even fighters of a high caliber, like Pyrrha, into a defensive position, with Word of God confirming that Mercury would defeat her if he fought her seriously. Due to his fighting style, Mercury relies on his swift and quick reflexes to counter and block his opponent's attacks as first demonstrated during his fight with Yang Xiao Long, altering the course of her punches and using his footwork to raise her fists and kick underneath or around her attacks. Despite the presumed awkwardness of his weapon's ranged capabilities he is a skilled marksman, able to shoot a phone out of a person's hand from a good distance away, and is proficient at using the many different forms of projectiles at his disposal to keep his opponents off balance. Mercury is also known to be observant, tactical, and analytical, able to notice and deduce the capabilities and limits of Pyrrha's Polarity Semblance after she uses it once during their brief fight, despite Pyrrha using it extremely subtly in combat and having spent her entire life honing her ability to hide her Semblance and its mechanics from her opponents and the general public.

Then there's the Ace Ops. For reference, Atlas Academy's vetting process is canonically more strict than Beacon's due to it being a military school on top of a Huntsman academy, so they only accept the best of the best. All of the members of the Ace Ops graduated top of their class from Atlas Academy, meaning that they are quite literally the best of the best of the best. Ruby not only outmatched Harriet Bree, but scales to the rest of her team in skill who also outmatched members of the Ace ops, Elm in particular being canonically the most skilled person out of all the ace ops, with Clover being the only member ranked above her in combat solely due to his semblance rather than outright skill, and Yang outmatched her in combat. Included in this group is also Winter, who spent her entire military career training to be the replacement host of the Winter Maiden and even without the Maiden Powers is considered the most skilled soldier in the Atlas Military.
Theres also Neo. Having been trained in the art of infiltration and assassination at Lady Browning’s Preparatory Academy For Girls, a covert school which trains some of the most elite female spies and assassins in the world, Neo is extraordinarily skilled in combat. Her fighting style is highly evasive, focusing on dodging, deflecting or maneuvering around her opponent's strikes until she has exhausted them, or until she is ready for a counterattack. She is very acrobatic and exceptionally skilled in hand-to-hand combat, relying on her agility to dodge and misdirect enemy movements and attacks, before retaliating with her own attacks resembling a mix of Bartitsu, Fencing, and Capoeira. Her skill is such that she casually defeated opponents such as Yang and Ruby early in the series and later on the entirety of Atlas Arc Team JNR and Oscar while toying with them the entire time, and by the end of the arc taking on both Ruby and Blake simultaneously and largely keeping them on the defensive. By word of God, Neo's skill is sufficient to defeat Mercury Black in a one on one fight.

Cinder in this key was not only able to put evenly match Neo in a 1v1 fight, but she beat Winter and Penny simultaneously while barely using her Maiden powers

Have your eyes bled yet?
 
Read under half of it.... Bro... I saw 1 impressive skill feat


I'll read more

Bro.... SOOO much unnecessary texts.

I got barely 3 good skill feat from that... Can you show a video or is there a manga?
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Read under half of it.... Bro... I saw 1 impressive skill feat


I'll read more

Bro.... SOOO much unnecessary texts.

I got barely 3 good skill feat from that... Can you show a video or is there a manga?
Click to expand...
Yes, there's a lot of text because just dumping skill feats without context for how they scale to Cinder with that entire scaling chain, RWBY ain't One Piece where there's 99999 skill feats for each character lol
 
"I got barely 3 good skill feat from that... "

Taskmaster style fighting style mimicry being considered mid-low tier skill in-verse alone makes Cinder absurdly more skilled than Johnny, her skill scaling chain consists of around 8 people directly, with each person in that chain skill stomping the person before them with the second to last of that chain being Velvet

"Can you show a video or is there a manga?"

Its a 8 going on 9 season long combat-centric webseries with multiple supplementary novels and games my guy...
 
Scaling skill feats doesn't work like that... Just because I skill stomped someone in archery doesn't mean I'll skillstomp someone in boxing.

That's why showing the feat is better for me to understand
 
"Scaling skill feats doesn't work like that... Just because I skill stomped someone in archery doesn't mean I'll skillstomp someone in boxing."

Except the list above isnt comparing archery to boxing, its all strictly comparing cqc to cqc. Theres an entire list of non-cqc feats for the cast that was left out of that list because it doesnt pertain to the skill scaling chain. Hell, the comparison between Nebula and Velvet exists because Velvet's teammates who have fought alongside her for years and know her capabilities flat out said that Nebula is more skilled in cqc than her.
 
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