Johnny Test vs Cinder Fall

[Keeweed]

Retract it, see that’s why I didn’t want to vote earlier because this thread still has quite a bit to discuss.

 

[DemonicDude]

The image I chose is pretty enticing.

But still You> Her

 

[RandomGuy2345]

We're 200+ messages in and there's still more to talk about...

Have we progressed at all in this thread?

What more do we have to talk about?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Allow me to bring up my earlier points.

Cinder has maiden forcefields that she can spam, making Johny getting through her defense unrealistic, while she can kill him rather easily when she lands a hit.

 

[Keeweed]

To see if Cinder has another counter to the wind rather than her own control over it. (Referring to why I’m not voting yet)

I see me not making a thread on her “forcefield” earlier is now biting me in the ass (not talking about aura).

The thing she summoned when she made her sword has never shown to be a forcefield (I’ve seen people say it is one). Some fire and wind flew around her and dispersed in a single strong hit (a hit that would be weaker than Johnny’s).

Aura drains after ever hit so a continuous attack like Johnny’s tornado (which has higher ap) is going to shred it. Even if it doesn’t it’s still a massive AoE that can constantly hit Cinder and disperses her main attack.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Here are my points:

1. Johnny can easily avoid most of Cinder's attacks via TP spam.
2. His Tornado/Hurricane Hands can "lol no" Cinder's fire, let alone overpower her attacks.
3. Cinder using her ice attacks will be a horrible idea, as Johnny has fought people with ice powers on many occasions.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Here are my points:

1. Johnny can easily avoid most of Cinder's attacks via TP spam.
2. His Tornado/Hurricane Hands can "lol no" Cinder's fire, let alone overpower her attacks.
3. Cinder using her ice attacks will be a horrible idea, as Johnny has fought people with ice powers on many occasions.

1. Okay.
2. Proof Johnny's tornados can deal with fire that busts through 2000 degree Farenheit heat resistance easily?
3. Okay I never used that tho.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

2. Proof Johnny's tornados can deal with fire that busts through 2000 degree Farenheit heat resistance easily?

I believe @Keeweed said something about the temperature not playing a factor in this scenario.

"Johnny’s wind has shown to be able to disperse large amounts of fire before (temperature won’t provide any resistance to that and Johnny has the ap advantage)." This is what he said. Finally found it.

3. Okay I never used that tho.

I believe someone mentioned it in the thread. I mentioned it for a reason lol.

 

[Keeweed]

Temperature has literally nothing to do with whether wind would pull out the fire or not.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Temperature has literally nothing to do with whether wind would pull out the fire or not.

It's proving its not normal fire. We don't know it's properties and considering what we've seen Cinder do with her fire it isn't normal at all, making the wind argument wrong.

 

[Keeweed]

We don’t know the properties, I.E we can’t assume it has a property it has never shown. It hasn’t shown to be resistant to being blown out by wind. The abnormal (kinda) property we do know is that it’s hotter than normal, that’s it. Assuming anything is both a NLF and a guess with zero evidence.

 

[DaReaperMan]

We don’t know the properties, I.E we can’t assume it has a property it has never shown. It hasn’t shown to be resistant to being blown out by wind. The abnormal (kinda) property we do know is that it’s hotter than normal, that’s it. Assuming anything is both a NLF and a guess with zero evidence.

It's fire hotter then Magma, something that doesn't really care about wind.

 

[Keeweed]

“something that doesn't really care about wind.”

Why would it not care about wind? Has it shown wind resistance? No it hasn’t. Temperature has literally nothing to do with a fires ability to put out by wind. That’s like saying a fire as hot as the sun would somehow be able to burn in space (a place without it oxygen). It’s properties don’t change just because it’s hot.

Edit: autocorrect, I think everyone already knows my opinions on it, it sucks.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because Magma doesn't get negated by wind and cooled down extremely fast, even if Johnny managed to put out the fire the heat left behind would destroy him when he teleports.

 

[Keeweed]

For 1) high winds absolutely can cool down magma. Wind can steal things heat, this is why being out in cold wind is vastly worse than just being outside when it’s cold, 2) Cinder’s fire isn’t magma. Magma is a hot rock, Cinder’s fire is just fire. When looking it up fire goes out from wind because the wind steals its oxygen (in the real world it most the time wind does give more oxygen then it steals but Johnny’s wind has shown to just instantly blow out fire). Unless a Cinder’s fire is so abnormal that it can work without the basic component of fire, I don’t see why it would be more resistant than every other fire Johnny has instantly put out.

 

[Keeweed]

Wait I just read the rest of your post. You need to look up more on wind. Wind steals heat, the heat from the fire ball will be dispersed along with it and dragged with the wind.

 

[DaReaperMan]

"Unless a Cinder’s fire is so abnormal that it can work without the basic component of fire, I don’t see why it would be more resistant than every other fire Johnny has instantly put out."

its literally magic

and this is assuming that 1) cinder literally just stands there and lets him hit her 2) cinder doesnt use anything else in her arsenal 3) cinder doesnt just null the wind with her TK or use dust attacks to attack through it

 

[Keeweed]

1) Johnny’s attack is a massive AoE, 2) What else could she use? The ice maybe but the only ability she has that freezes (that she uses) is an ice trail that can be dodged. Everything else is outranged or overpowered. 3) When has she had tk? She can control wind, but as brought up that should be an ap thing. Why would her dust attacks over power it she has the ap disadvantage by nearly 3 times (Plus the only dust I can remember her using is fire, so that should disperse).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

cinder literally just stands there and lets him hit her

We're assuming that Cinder is using her fire attacks, and we're questioning whether or not Johnny's Tornado/Hurricane Hands can cancel it out. This has nothing to do with Johnny just attacking Cinder, while Cinder just stands there and takes the hit.

cinder doesnt use anything else in her arsenal

True, though anything else in her arsenal gets countered pretty easily by Johnny's attacks.

inder doesnt just null the wind with her TK or use dust attacks to attack through it

Don't know how she can go through something that's over 2x her own strength.

 

[Keeweed]

She can go through the wind (kind of, she’ll be constantly hit though) because he has the lifting strength advantage, but the dust attacks are elemental so they would need to avoid being dispersed or just destroyed by the wind and ap. I don’t see how an ice spike would survive a constant attack that is over two times more powerful (and if I remember closer to three).

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Johnny: >>>50.3 Kilotons
Cinder: 21.8 Kilotons

A ~2.31x AP difference.

 

[Keeweed]

Ok so closer to 2, i misremembered the 3 as an 8. Though that’s still a really good advantage to have when your main attack is continuous and your opponent’s durability backscales and mostly relies on a forcefield (a forcefield that drains with every hit and nukes your stamina when it breaks).

 

[DaReaperMan]

We're assuming that Cinder is using her fire attacks, and we're questioning whether or not Johnny's Tornado/Hurricane Hands can cancel it out. This has nothing to do with Johnny just attacking Cinder, while Cinder just stands there and takes the hit.


True, though anything else in her arsenal gets countered pretty easily by Johnny's attacks.


Don't know how she can go through something that's over 2x her own strength.

the arguments for Johnny are TP spam, which is countered by general AOE from Cinder, and tornados, which can just get electricity shot through.

noy electricity manipulation or air manipulation.

how about making gaps in it with air manipoulation

and why the hell would johnny immediately go for an AoE that nukes a place hes trying to be the hero of immediately against someone he doesn't know can one-shot him and has already ****** off out of his sight and is going for a sneak attack.

Ok so closer to 2, i misremembered the 3 as an 8. Though that’s still a really good advantage to have when your main attack is continuous and your opponent’s durability backscales and mostly relies on a forcefield (a forcefield that drains with every hit and nukes your stamina when it breaks).

i'm 99.9% sure Aura just so happens to be inconsistent with that it does when it's broken.

 

[DaReaperMan]

"1) Johnny’s attack is a massive AoE"

And Cinder can fly. Theyre starting 150 meters away from each other and speed is equalized so theres no reason why Cinder cant just avoid it by flying away on top of the aforementioned issue johnny has with announcing his attacks before using them

2) What else could she use? The ice maybe but the only ability she has that freezes (that she uses) is an ice trail that can be dodged. Everything else is outranged or overpowered.

Her dust attacks, she regularly uses them as a fakeout as theyre brittle, she can do what she did against Glynda by firing raw dust at Johnny to spread explosive shards across the battlefield that he wouldnt notice until its too late and she detonates them in his face or do what she did against Pyrrha and launch dust projectiles that she can recombine if theyre broken to get through his attacks and hit him.

"3) When has she had tk? She can control wind, but as brought up that should be an ap thing. Why would her dust attacks over power it she has the ap disadvantage by nearly 3 times."

Since always? She has displayed the ability to telekinetically control her weapons on numerous occasions, as have Amber and Winter, thought looking at her profile it seems that it was removed for some odd reason. And she doesnt need to overpower it, she can freely control the state of her dust attacks and can use that to her advantage to bypass his wind from a distance.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also just checked, and Maidens, including Cinder, Aren't effected by Aura stamina drops.

 

[Keeweed]

When has Cinder used electricity. She has it but when has she used it.

When it comes to the aura and stamina, yeah that’s pretty inconsistent, but the fact that it can nuke her stamina is still a big plus for Johnny.

Johnny’s main attack is an AoE, this isn’t a specific decision it’s his go to move.

 

[Keeweed]

Also just checked, and Maidens, including Cinder, Aren't effected by Aura stamina drops.

Where did you check, so I can check myself.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Johnny’s main attack is an AoE, this isn’t a specific decision it’s his go to move.

His go-to move isn't to nuke the entire town, its to send out a decently AOE'd projectile that's actually less then Cinder's AOE and can be dodged.

Where did you check, so I can check myself.

Winter had her aura broken by Ironwood, got the maiden powers, got up and kept fighting as though nothing happened, then immediately went on to fight cinder, then immediately went on to solo a horde of grimm.

 

[Keeweed]

1) Johnny has fought plenty of people that can fly and his AoE is continuous and the size of a small forest. She’s not going to be able to cover enough distance to get out of the way.

2) I still don’t see why the dust would make it through. Assuming she even uses dust other than fire, the brittle small amount of it are absolutely going to get blown away and the main attacks would disperse. The only one that could probably make it through is the electricity one which I never remember her ever getting close to using.

3) I’m just going to assume tking the weapon to Johnny is the arguement then because she has never shown to tk anything else (also are we sure that is tk, I can think of many verses that threw their weapons around like hers and don’t have tk). While they have the lifting strength to make it through I highly doubt the weapons would make to Johnny before being destroyed by the wind. They have a two times durability disadvantage and are constantly being hit.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

the arguments for Johnny are TP spam, which is countered by general AOE from Cinder, and tornados, which can just get electricity shot through.

Apparently being able to teleport as far as space can get countered by someone with Several Kilometers worth of AOE/Range. Yeah, no way that's happening. Even if Johnny teleports out of range where he can't land an attack, him or Cinder will quickly close the gap by catching up to each other. Not sure how Cinder's electricity works. But Johnny will literally have no problems surviving it, at all.

noy electricity manipulation or air manipulation.

Johnny can quite easily dodge, or survive these attacks.

and why the hell would johnny immediately go for an AoE that nukes a place hes trying to be the hero of immediately against someone he doesn't know can one-shot him and has already ****** off out of his sight and is going for a sneak attack.

That's literally what he starts with in character. He spams it throughout as well. He's not going for a sneak attack off the bat.

And Cinder can fly. Theyre starting 150 meters away from each other and speed is equalized so theres no reason why Cinder cant just avoid it by flying away on top of the aforementioned issue johnny has with announcing his attacks before using them

They're city-sized attacks. How is Cinder avoiding that with just flight? Or even avoiding the attack in general?

Her dust attacks, she regularly uses them as a fakeout as theyre brittle, she can do what she did against Glynda by firing raw dust at Johnny to spread explosive shards across the battlefield that he wouldnt notice until its too late and she detonates them in his face or do what she did against Pyrrha and launch dust projectiles that she can recombine if theyre broken to get through his attacks and hit him.

Glynda avoided it by doing a backflip. Pretty sure Johnny has no problem avoiding that.

Since always? She has displayed the ability to telekinetically control her weapons on numerous occasions, as have Amber and Winter, thought looking at her profile it seems that it was removed for some odd reason. And she doesnt need to overpower it, she can freely control the state of her dust attacks and can use that to her advantage to bypass his wind from a distance.

TK is valid.

 

[Keeweed]

“Cinder's AOE and can be dodged.”

I’ll rewatch Cinder’s fights later to see if they are actually larger. But if she dodged it literally nothing stops Johnny from just making his AoE bigger. Especially if Cinder throws fire at him.

“Winter had her aura broken by Ironwood, got the maiden powers, got up and kept fighting as though nothing happened”

Nothing stops that from just falling under the inconsistent stamina rules.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

His go-to move isn't to nuke the entire town, its to send out a decently AOE'd projectile that's actually less then Cinder's AOE and can be dodged.

It's literally the first thing he does in a fight.

Winter had her aura broken by Ironwood, got the maiden powers, got up and kept fighting as though nothing happened, then immediately went on to fight cinder, then immediately went on to solo a horde of grimm.

This is also valid, but Johnny can last a very long time as well, so stamina won't play a factor here.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Johnny has also shown to be very elusive as well.

Even if there was a scenario where he and Cinder were at a relatively close range, then he can still avoid her attacks.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's literally the first thing he does in a fight.


This is also valid, but Johnny can last a very long time as well, so stamina won't play a factor here.

1: did it when he was trapped buzzer noise

2: that link doesn't work.

Johnny has also shown to be very elusive as well.

Even if there was a scenario where he and Cinder were at a relatively close range, then he can still avoid her attacks.

Did you just mention elusiveness against a RWBY character? Oh boy there totally isn't a character just like that!

 

[Keeweed]

“This is also valid, but Johnny can last a very long time as well, so stamina won't play a factor here.”

Again you missed why o brought up stamina. It’s not about each other out last each other. It’s whether Cinder becomes a sitting duck after aura breaks.

Also now I’m busy so I’ll be back later.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

1: did it when he was trapped buzzer noise

If that's the first move he thought of doing, then what's to say he wouldn't do it the first time in a fight? He could've used his Power Poots to get out as well, but he used his Tornado/Hurricane Hands first.

2: that link doesn't work.

Try this link.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, both instances give Cinder a ridiculous amount of time to do any manner of things, such as just kill Test outright. He likes to announce shit, and that kills him here.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Yeah, both instances give Cinder a ridiculous amount of time to do any manner of things, such as just kill Test outright. He likes to announce shit, and that kills him here.

I don't think Cinder will take him seriously at all initially. I mean, if you had no knowledge of Johnny, and you see him pull up on you looking like that, would you take him seriously? Especially since Cinder's not bloodlusted or has prior knowledge here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think Cinder will take him seriously at all initially. I mean, if you had no knowledge of Johnny, and you see him pull up on you looking like that, would you take him seriously? Especially since Cinder's not bloodlusted or has prior knowledge here.

For the 999999999999999999th time, Cinder has stopped underestimating her opponents and wants Test DEAD.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

For the 999999999999999999th time, Cinder has stopped underestimating her opponents and wants Test DEAD.

1. I highly doubt that Cinder won't get arrogant in the slightest seeing an 11 year old boy approach her in a ugly costume.

2. Though I don't believe Johnny will have time to teleport, he should have enough time to dodge, as 150 feet is ~48 meters, which is more than enough distance to react in time.