Johnny Test vs Cinder Fall

[Popted2]

by the way Random you didn't counted Baken vote for Cinder

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ahem. This better explains my points here.

"Correct me if I missed anything here."

Versatility
Durability negation
A passive forcefield 2x more durable than johnny's AP
Multiple methods of bypassing or outright nullifying Johnny's main forms of attack

"Johnny's Advantages:"

2x AP is nowhere near enough to guarantee a win for Johnny especially given that Cinder's Aura alone effectively nullifies it
His durability is nowhere near high enough to prevent Cinder from harming him and he has no answer to Cinder's heat attacks which would outright turn him to ash.
Johnny is definitely not more versatile as the majority of his abilities are just his physiology and maneuverability rather than his offensive versatility

"Johnny has many counters to Cinder's offense."
1. He cant attack while TP spamming so that does not help him do anything other than move around
2. Cinder's wind manip would counteract his own as Wind manip vs wind manip comes down to lifting strength, not AP, and Cinder's dust attacks can outright bypass his hurricane hands as explained previously, and Cinder can just move around the hurricane hands or shoot around the attack as RWBY characters can casually curve bullet shots and arrows around obstacles and attacks.

"which Johnny will be able to see coming and avoid, since the starting distance is 46 meters (150 feet), which is a little over 40% the size of the average Football field."

Seeing as theyre equalized to Mach 5, Cinder would be able to cross that distance in .02 seconds. If Cinder goes for a cqc attack right away the sheer skill advantage she has over johnny pretty much guarantees that she's not going to miss especially seeing as she has feats of accurately hitting targets at range through a heavy smokescreen. Toon Force and Pain Tolerance arent saving johnny from decapitation or impalement, the former of which would kill him outright and latter of which would lead to him being incinerated. Hell, by your own logic Cinder would have an equally easy time dodging Johnny's attacks.

"Then Johnny can take control with one clap of his hands, which Cinder won't see coming, meaning she won't be able to guard it in time. It literally takes less than a second for the Teleportation process to go through, which I've proved many many times already. Stop downplaying it."

Cinder literally has a passive full body forcefield that is several times more durable than herself active at all times. Passive >>>>>>>> less than a second.

"He can Teleport, or just... simply dodge the attack."

Dodging an attack from someone lightyears more skilled than you who has experience fighting people far more slippery in combat than you are is going to be pretty damn hard.

The fact that the entire crux of the argument for Johnny essentially boils down to Cinder just standing around letting Johnny hit her and doing nothing to fight back is ridiculous. Cinder's aura alone would outright counter Johnny's methods of attack long enough for her to get a solid hit in and incinerate him as her aura would be more than enough to protect her from Hurricane Hands, seeing as in RWBY, aura has protected 8-Bs from 7-C wind attacks just like Johnny's, and cinder's aura is proportionally more durable.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

2x AP is nowhere near enough to guarantee a win for Johnny especially given that Cinder's Aura alone effectively nullifies it

It's going to a decent amount of damage. The same argument I used for AP is the same argument Reaper used in the Johnny vs Nonon thread.

His durability is nowhere near high enough to prevent Cinder from harming him and he has no answer to Cinder's heat attacks which would outright turn him to ash.

I guess you haven't been paying attention at all, have you? Love how you're completely ignoring Johnny's 2 counters to Cinder's fire, which I've mentioned so many times already. Even @Keeweed said the same points I've been saying. I'm not going to restate them again: TP spam and Hurricane Hands.

Johnny is definitely not more versatile as the majority of his abilities are just his physiology and maneuverability rather than his offensive versatility

1. If most of Johnny's abilities are maneuverability (which is false), then you're just further supporting my point of Johnny being able to avoid Cinder's attacks. Plus, this contradicts the point you said above. You know, the point that said that Johnny has no answer to Cinder's Heat/Fire attacks?
2. Reread Johnny's profile. That's all you need to do in order to show how versatile Johnny is in his X form.

1. He cant attack while TP spamming so that does not help him do anything other than move around

Where are you getting this from? I've never said this yet. Can you stop bringing up points the person you're debating with has never said and act like you're saying something that holds weight? I've never said that Johnny can attack while TP spamming. He can't do that. What he can do is teleport somewhere so Cinder can't find him, then attack when she least expects it.

2. Cinder's wind manip would counteract his own as Wind manip vs wind manip comes down to lifting strength, not AP

1. I need proof that wind vs wind would apply to LS.
2. Johnny's wind is ~2.31x more powerful, so by that logic, he should realistically overpower Cinder's.
3. Would Cinder even think about using her wind? If she sees it coming, she most likely would use her force field or dodge (which would not be a good idea).

and Cinder can just move around the hurricane hands or shoot around the attack as RWBY characters can casually curve bullet shots and arrows around obstacles and attacks.

1. There's no way Cinder can move around city-sized tornadoes coming her way. You're gonna have to convince me that Cinder can do that, and it's not going to be easy at all.
2. Would Cinder even go with that? As stated before, she'll most likely block with force fields, or do you what you said and move around it (which is a dumb idea).

Seeing as theyre equalized to Mach 5, Cinder would be able to cross that distance in .02 seconds. If Cinder goes for a cqc attack right away the sheer skill advantage she has over johnny pretty much guarantees that she's not going to miss especially seeing as she has feats of accurately hitting targets at range through a heavy smokescreen.

Johnny's skilled enough to pop 2 water balloons with a badge while blind.
He was able to sense his dad coming into the room.
He was also able to sense his dad giving his toys away.
He has also shown to very elusive as well.
Pretty sure Johnny should have no problem avoiding Cinder's attacks. Skill advantage won't matter here, especially if the opponent you're facing is able to sense something happen before he can even see it with his own eyes.

Cinder literally has a passive full body forcefield that is several times more durable than herself active at all times. Passive >>>>>>>> less than a second.

Good for her. Other than her fire, she has no physical way of taking Johnny down, and her fire already gets hard countered by Johnny's Hurricane Hands, in which a weaker version of his Hurricane Hands took out an entire forest fire. His TP also helps him avoid the fire attacks when he's at a distance. Dodging is also reliable, as I've just explained.

The fact that the entire crux of the argument for Johnny essentially boils down to Cinder just standing around letting Johnny hit her and doing nothing to fight back is ridiculous. Cinder's aura alone would outright counter Johnny's methods of attack long enough for her to get a solid hit in and incinerate him as her aura would be more than enough to protect her from Hurricane Hands, seeing as in RWBY, aura has protected 8-Bs from 7-C wind attacks just like Johnny's, and cinder's aura is proportionally more durable.

You have not been reading the thread, have you? I mean, you just jumped in out of nowhere, so I'm not surprised. I'm not explaining again what I said. I love how both you and Reaper completely ignore the 3 counters I've mentioned for Johnny that completely negates the fire argument that is being constantly used. Force fields are valid, but Johnny is literally a tank, and since Cinder won't be able to take Johnny down with her fire, she has to resort to other methods like her ice or electricity, which either gets dodged, hard countered, or tanked.

 

[Spinoirr]

"Can? Yes. Will? No. Cinder's fire is legit her only valid wincon, and Johnny has 2 counters to this (TP spam and Hurricane Hands). If he ends up being in a situation where he has to be up close and personal (which is unlikely), he can just simply dodge it.

Cinder's fire is her only wincon, and that gets hard countered by Johnny's TP spam and Hurricane Hands."

Fire manip, heat manip, or even just straight up impaling or decapitating him would all be equally lethal to Johnny, and its already been explained numerous times how Cinder can easily bypass his hurricane hands or shoot around the attack with her own ranged attacks.

"How does it work? But I'm pretty sure Johnny can avoid with little to no issue."

She can reduce him to ash if she either touches him, hits him with any of her ranged weapons, or is anywhere near her if she uses an AoE attack.

"Johnny dodges the first attack, and Cinder is already preparing for her next attack."

Again, youre arguing that Johnny would dodge an attack from someone who is absurdly more skilled than him, who has experience fighting people vastly more slippery in combat than him, who immediately goes for the kill in this key, and who comes from a verse where even the least skilled characters have absurdly more skill than anyone Johnny has ever faced. If Johnny stands still and gives Cinder that opening, shes not missing and he is most definitely not dodging.

"Then, before she can do anything else, she's getting hit with a tornado. She won't block this one, as she won't see it coming, and is not prepared for Johnny to attack next, leaving her vulnerable for an attack she won't see coming."

Again, Cinder has a passive full body forcefield that is several times more durable than she is. Wind attacks of the same potency as Johnny's exist in RWBY and 8-Bs were able to withstand them, and Cinder's aura is proportionally more durable

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Also, remember that her opponent in this thread is Johnny, who literally needed multiple gadgets in order to match someone with an extremely basic mastery of kung fu.

1. Where did you find this?
2. The verse of Johnny Test is a bit consistent, too.

Actually, I think I know what you mean. It was the episode, "Johnny Vets Dukey," where Johnny has to take Dukey to the vet, but Dukey doesn't want to.

If you'd re-watch that episode, it's depicted that Dukey is extremely afraid of the vet to the point where he'd do basically anything to avoid being there. It's even stated that Johnny clearly has no motivation to take Dukey to the vet. Of course he'd constantly lose to someone who'd do anything they can to avoid doing something.

If you'd know that I would do anything to avoid going to the hospital, and you try to take me there (with having little motivation to due so because of me being scared of going to the hospital to the point where I'd do anything to avoid going there), of course I'd do everything in my power to not go there, and of course I'd win.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Fire manip, heat manip, or even just straight up impaling or decapitating him would all be equally lethal to Johnny, and its already been explained numerous times how Cinder can easily bypass his hurricane hands or shoot around the attack with her own ranged attacks.

Johnny can avoid literally all of these attacks. I've legit gave you 4 scans to prove that. You're further proving my point of how you're not reading my comment. If Johnny can sense things happening before he can even see them with his own 2 eyes, how would he not avoid projectiles coming right to him? Skill advantage or not.

She can reduce him to ash if she either touches him, hits him with any of her ranged weapons, or is anywhere near her if she uses an AoE attack.

Touching is a no go, so you got that, but Johnny X is a range fighter. He won't go CQC/H2H. Already explained how easily Johnny can avoid Cinder's ranged weapons, and you completely ignored it. TP is the perfect answer for AOE. Can you show me a scan of Cinder doing her AOE attacks? All I've been seeing is Cinder using her ranged weapons/attacks, which Johnny easily avoids.

Again, youre arguing that Johnny would dodge an attack from someone who is absurdly more skilled than him,

I've literally proved it with 4 scans, and you've only mentioned 1 of them, and that has to do with elusiveness, and how there are RWBY characters that are more elusive than Johnny. You ignored every other scan I showed, which is perfect proof that Johnny can dodge these attacks.

who immediately goes for the kill in this key,

That doesn't matter. At all. Johnny can literally sense things happening before he can see it with his own 2 eyes. Do I need to pull up the scans again?

and who comes from a verse where even the least skilled characters have absurdly more skill than anyone Johnny has ever faced.

That. Doesn't. Matter. How many times do I have to say this?

If Johnny stands still and gives Cinder that opening, shes not missing and he is most definitely not dodging.

And now you're doing the same exact thing you and Reaper are accusing me of doing (which I have not).

You're arguments just boil down to skill this and skill that, which won't matter because Johnny can literally sense things happening before he can see with his own 2 eyes. There, I gave you the links. Now please, click on them and look at what's happening before you say "Cinder more skilled lol."

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This thread has no right being 5 pages long with over 400 comments. This thread should have concluded a long time ago.

Also, no more RWBY vs Johnny Test matchups for a while.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Wish there was more people that were knowledgeable on the JT verse.

I'm the only one defending Johnny here.

Though, I could vote myself, since @MonkeyOfLife said you're allowed to...

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sucks for anyone that's reading everything.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Um?

• Anybody, including the creator of the thread, gets exactly one vote.

Well we know what randomguy is voting for

Know what? I might do it...

F*ck it. Johnny FRA!

 

[Popted2]

now if 2 people would vote for Cinder and Johnny they would be 7 votes for both of them, meaning that the match would result as incon

well, better than a lose no?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

now if 2 people would vote for Cinder and Johnny they would be 7 votes for both of them, meaning that the match would result as incon

well, better than a lose no?

I'll 100% take an Incon.

This thread has lasted wayyyyy too long.

Like, 5 pages and 400+ comments? No way.

 

[Spinoirr]

"It's going to a decent amount of damage. The same argument I used for AP is the same argument Reaper used in the Johnny vs Nonon thread."

As long as her aura is up it wont be doing any damage to her, thats the entire point of Aura, to prevent the user from being damaged as long as it is up. And again, 7-C wind attacks exist in RWBY and 8-Bs can withstand them with their aura with minimal damage.

"Love how you're completely ignoring Johnny's 2 counters to Cinder's fire"

Cinder's fire attacks and cinder's heat attacks are two completely different things, that has already been established numerous times in this thread.

"What he can do is teleport somewhere so Cinder can't find him, then attack when she least expects it."

Thats going to be extremely hard for him to do seeing as Cinder can literally fight invisible opponents, opponents hiding in smokescreens, opponents spamming illusions, and sense opponents from long range, all with zero issue.

"Johnny's wind is ~2.31x more powerful, so by that logic, he should realistically overpower Cinder's."

Cinder's wind can send people who have Class G lifting strength flying, Johnny's wind is not more powerful

"There's no way Cinder can move around city-sized tornadoes coming her way. You're gonna have to convince me that Cinder can do that, and it's not going to be easy at all."

Literally flying in the opposite direction. As you just said, Hurricane hands is not a 360 aoe, it is an attack in a straight line. Unless Cinder went to the Prometheus school of running away from things she literally just flies in any direction to avoid it.

"Would Cinder even go with that? As stated before, she'll most likely block with force fields, or do you what you said and move around it (which is a dumb idea)."

She would yes, she did so against Glynda, Pyrrha, Winter, and Penny, theres no reason she wouldnt do so here if Johnny manages to keep her at a distance. And i think youre confused, Cinder isnt 'most likely block with forcefields', she just has a passive forcefield. Not to say that she couldnt just fly through the tornado given that its not so far above her to prevent her from doing so and she has all the defenses and strength to do so.

"Pretty sure Johnny should have no problem avoiding Cinder's attacks."

Refer to the two skill lists Reaper posted. Comparing Johnny's skill to Cinder's is like comparing a toddler's karate class to Bruce Lee.

"Skill advantage won't matter here, especially if the opponent you're facing is able to sense something happen before he can even see it with his own eyes."

Cinder literally does that casually, and matched Neo in skill with Neo being able to beat people with instinctive reactions in CQC.

"Other than her fire, she has no physical way of taking Johnny down"

Heat manip, decapitation, impalement.

"1. Where did you find this?"

The entire episode 'Johnny-Fu', where he needed a high-tech karate uniform just to be able to match Bumper who had just become a black belt in kung fu.

"Johnny can avoid literally all of these attacks."

And Reaper and I have explained why he cant. Again, Cinder scales to beating people with instinctive reactions in cqc, Johnny isnt dodging her attacks.

"and how there are RWBY characters that are more elusive than Johnny."

Neopolitan. Even without taking her semblance into account she has actual stealth, infiltration, and assassination training from the best assassin academy on the planet. With her semblance, on top of being able to teleport just like Johnny, she can make herself invisible, make herself look like other people at will and make objects as large as ships invisible or look like other ships at will, make illusions of herself in multiple places at once, make city-block spanning illusions to disorient opponents, and make illusions that can physically harm people while also redering herself invisible at the same time.

"Johnny can literally sense things happening before he can see it with his own 2 eyes."

And Cinder beats people who can do that.

"And now you're doing the same exact thing you and Reaper are accusing me of doing (which I have not)."

...You literally argued that Johnny would stand there and give a speech at the start of the fight

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve missed a ton, and I’m finishing up my move tomorrow. I’ve honestly said everything I’ve wanted to say so this would just be a disagreement of opinions from this point on: however there is one thing.

The fire being hotter than normal still has zero reason to be resistant to wind. Heat has literally nothing to do with that once so ever. However, if that for some reason needs to be it’s own thread, I promise I’ll make it Friday afternoon.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The fire being hotter than normal still has zero reason to be resistant to wind. Heat has literally nothing to do with that once so ever. However, if that for some reason needs to be it’s own thread, I promise I’ll make it Friday afternoon.

And considering that Johnny used a far weaker variant of his Hurricane Hands to take it out proves that he can take Cinder's fire out with the variant he uses far more often. You know, the stronger one that's city-sized?

As long as her aura is up it wont be doing any damage to her, thats the entire point of Aura, to prevent the user from being damaged as long as it is up. And again, 7-C wind attacks exist in RWBY and 8-Bs can withstand them with their aura with minimal damage.

That's great. She still has no way of taking down Johnny, which I'll most likely elaborate on later in this comment.

Cinder's fire attacks and cinder's heat attacks are two completely different things, that has already been established numerous times in this thread.

Ok? She still can't hit someone who can sense things happening without even looking, which you still somehow can't grasp.

Thats going to be extremely hard for him to do seeing as Cinder can literally fight invisible opponents, opponents hiding in smokescreens, opponents spamming illusions, and sense opponents from long range, all with zero issue.

Fair.

Cinder's wind can send people who have Class G lifting strength flying, Johnny's wind is not more powerful

It technically is. Plus, I need proof that wind is purely LS, and not AP. And Johnny's wind can cancel out Cinder's fire, so not only is it more powerful, it's also more useful here.

She would yes, she did so against Glynda, Pyrrha, Winter, and Penny, theres no reason she wouldnt do so here if Johnny manages to keep her at a distance.

If she can react in time, that is. It legit takes only 1 clap for his Hurricane Hands to activate.

Not to say that she couldnt just fly through the tornado given that its not so far above her to prevent her from doing so and she has all the defenses and strength to do so.

She has the defenses to go through it, but not the strength. If Cinder went in there with pure strength, no way she's getting through that. You're half right.

Refer to the two skill lists Reaper posted. Comparing Johnny's skill to Cinder's is like comparing a toddler's karate class to Bruce Lee.

...I wasn't comparing skill. The scans I was referring to were ES scans. Let me guess, you didn't click on them?

Cinder literally does that casually, and matched Neo in skill with Neo being able to beat people with instinctive reactions in CQC.

And Johnny did that casually. What's your point? That was not a skill feat. That was ES (though in some cases, the 2 kinda go hand-in-hand). Plus, Johnny X isn't a CQC/H2H fighter. Don't know why you keep showing skill feats in CQC/H2H when Johnny is not that kind of fighter, and I wasn't trying to argue skill here. I was arguing that Johnny can dodge Cinder's attacks with no issue.

Heat manip, decapitation, impalement.

Johnny avoids easily. Plus, Johnny's Body Control is the perfect counter for decapitation.

The entire episode 'Johnny-Fu', where he needed a high-tech karate uniform just to be able to match Bumper who had just become a black belt in kung fu.

Yet he shows here being able to fight on par with Dukey. The fact that they weren't being serious too holds even more weight. The verse in general is just inconsistent. And no, I'm not trying to argue skill between Johnny and Cinder. Just saying that so you won't get confused for a second time.

And Reaper and I have explained why he cant. Again, Cinder scales to beating people with instinctive reactions in cqc, Johnny isnt dodging her attacks.

And I've explained as to why he could, and you ended up translating it as skill (or, you ended up bringing up more skill feats). Pretty sure Johnny has no problems avoiding Cinder's attacks. Do I need to show you the stamps again?

Neopolitan. Even without taking her semblance into account she has actual stealth, infiltration, and assassination training from the best assassin academy on the planet. With her semblance, on top of being able to teleport just like Johnny, she can make herself invisible, make herself look like other people at will and make objects as large as ships invisible or look like other ships at will, make illusions of herself in multiple places at once, make city-block spanning illusions to disorient opponents, and make illusions that can physically harm people while also redering herself invisible at the same time.

You have literally no reason to show me this. I never said that Johnny was more elusive than RWBY characters, you literally took my words out of context.

I've literally proved it with 4 scans, and you've only mentioned 1 of them, and that has to do with elusiveness, and how there are RWBY characters that are more elusive than Johnny. You ignored every other scan I showed, which is perfect proof that Johnny can dodge these attacks.

This is what I said. You have no reason to show me this.

And Cinder beats people who can do that.

*Fights on par with people who can do that. She beats them because she's more powerful, which she is not in this scenario.

...You literally argued that Johnny would stand there and give a speech at the start of the fight

That's what Reaper argued at first, which led to me agreeing with him. You're half right.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I also forgot to mention that while Cinder was holding her own against Neo, she was still struggling to the point where she had to bust out her Maiden Powers to make Neo stop fighting her.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I also forgot to mention that while Cinder was holding her own against Neo, she was still struggling to the point where she had to bust out her Maiden Powers to make Neo stop fighting her.

"Struggling"

looks at Cinder very, very clearly holding her own and landing hits

Did we watch the same fight?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

"Struggling"

looks at Cinder very, very clearly holding her own and landing hits

Did we watch the same fight?

She literally had to bust out her Maiden Powers to get Neo to stop fighting.

Did you watch the same fight?

 

[DaReaperMan]

She literally had to bust out her Maiden Powers to get Neo to stop fighting.

Did you watch the same fight?

Okay, now direct your eyes to the entire fight before then. Just because someone wants to end a fight immediately doesn't mean they were """""struggling"""""

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Okay, now direct your eyes to the entire fight before then. Just because someone wants to end a fight immediately doesn't mean they were """""struggling"""""

If you're in a fight with someone, you're fighting regularly, and you have to bust out your powers to end the fight, that means they were struggling.

Unless you're assuming that Cinder could've beaten Neo without her Maiden Powers?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

For further elaboration, if Johnny had to use Johnny X or his inventions to end the fight, then that means he was struggling in his base form.

Same logic applies to Cinder.

 

[DaReaperMan]

If you're in a fight with someone, you're fighting regularly, and you have to bust out your powers to end the fight, that means they were struggling.

Unless you're assuming that Cinder could've beaten Neo without her Maiden Powers?

Pal. They were fighting evenly. I'd bust out a superpower/amp myself if my enemy was matching me blow for blow to beat them/get them to stop fighting. You are arguing Cinder doesn't have the sense to realize someone is dead even with her.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Pal. They were fighting evenly. I'd bust out a superpower/amp myself if my enemy was matching me blow for blow to beat them/get them to stop fighting. You are arguing Cinder doesn't have the sense to realize someone is dead even with her.

For further elaboration, if Johnny had to use Johnny X or his inventions to end the fight, then that means he was struggling in his base form.

Same logic applies to Cinder.

If Cinder realized that she had to transform to end the fight, that means she was struggling. Neo was fairly casual throughout the fight. You can tell Cinder was putting more effort in landing a hit than Neo was.

If Johnny was fighting a random villain in his base form H2H, and then he went back to the lab and became Johnny X, or decided to get gadgets to defeat that villain, he's basically saying to the villain "I was struggling against you in base form, so I decided to (insert whatever he did) to end the fight."

Don't know what else I can tell you.

 

[DaReaperMan]

For further elaboration, if Johnny had to use Johnny X or his inventions to end the fight, then that means he was struggling in his base form.

Same logic applies to Cinder.

Observe the fight, if Johnny's base fight seemed dead even with his opponent and he used an invention or go Johnny X, that means he had the sense to realize he probably should power up and just wreck the opponent.

If Cinder realized that she had to transform to end the fight, that means she was struggling. Neo was fairly casual throughout the fight. You can tell Cinder was putting more effort in landing a hit than Neo was.

If Johnny was fighting a random villain in his base form H2H, and then he went back to the lab and became Johnny X, or decided to get gadgets to defeat that villain, he's basically saying to the villain "I was struggling against you in base form, so I decided to (insert whatever he did) to end the fight."

Don't know what else I can tell you.

Depends on the fight beforehand, if Johnny was at a disadvantage for the entire thing and left to do those things, yeah, he was struggling.

But if both parties are landing good hits on eachother and it's dead even then someone using a power to gain the edge is someone who has actual common sense instead of just fighting a battle its unlikely either party will win.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Observe the fight, if Johnny's base fight seemed dead even with his opponent and he used an invention or go Johnny X, that means he had the sense to realize he probably should power up and just wreck the opponent.

Depends on the fight beforehand, if Johnny was at a disadvantage for the entire thing and left to do those things, yeah, he was struggling.

But if both parties are landing good hits on eachother and it's dead even then someone using a power to gain the edge is someone who has actual common sense instead of just fighting a battle its unlikely either party will win.

The fight wasn't really dead even. Cinder legit landed 2 good hits on Neo, while Neo was fairly casual throughout the fight. It was pretty obvious who was putting more effort into landing a hit in the fight.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The fight wasn't really dead even. Cinder legit landed 2 good hits on Neo, while Neo was fairly casual throughout the fight. It was pretty obvious who was putting more effort into landing a hit in the fight.

And Neo landed 1 good hit on Cinder, plus Cinder ended the fight because she wanted to work with Neo, not kill her.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

And Neo landed 1 good hit on Cinder, plus Cinder ended the fight because she wanted to work with Neo, not kill her.

She actually had at least 3 good hits, which all were fairly casual. Cinder still needed to end the fight with Maiden Powers, regardless if she wanted to kill her or not.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Let this thread end already...

 

[DaReaperMan]

She actually had at least 3 good hits, which all were fairly casual. Cinder still needed to end the fight with Maiden Powers, regardless if she wanted to kill her or not.

First hit, a bash that barely did anything.

Second hits, same as above. It's reflex to close your eyes when an attack comes at your face.

Third hit, the only good one she actually landed.

In fact you could even say Cinder was also fairly casual from her dialogue once it's taken outside and the fact she wanted to work with Neo, whereas Neo actually doesn't have a reason to hold back against Cinder.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let this thread end already...

But I'm enjoying your pain!

 

[RandomGuy2345]

First hit, a bash that barely did anything.

Second hits, same as above. It's reflex to close your eyes when an attack comes at your face.

It's also a reflex to close your eyes when you got hit in the face.

Kobe literally doesn't blink when something's coming to his face.

In fact you could even say Cinder was also fairly casual from her dialogue once it's taken outside and the fact she wanted to work with Neo, whereas Neo actually doesn't have a reason to hold back against Cinder.

If she was "casual", then she wouldn't need to transform. You can clearly tell Cinder was having a harder time landing hits on Neo than vice versa.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's also a reflex to close your eyes when you got hit in the face.

Kobe literally doesn't blink when something's coming to his face.


If she was "casual", then she wouldn't need to transform. You can clearly tell Cinder was having a harder time landing hits on Neo than vice versa.

Because he was actively trying not to blink, flinch, or really anything else.

Why would Cinder not want to just end a fight against someone she wants to work with instead of kill, again? to fit with your argument?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Because he was actively trying not to blink, flinch, or really anything else.

You literally have no idea if he was actively trying not to blink. He just didn't blink. That's about it. He didn't see it coming, so the fact he didn't blink is even more impressive. Can't really see how you can refute this.

Why would Cinder not want to just end a fight against someone she wants to work with instead of kill, again? to fit with your argument?

She could've done the same thing in her base form. That doesn't matter.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He did see it coming though? Human field of view is pretty nutty and most basketball players avoid flinching to that trick.

So basically your saying Cinder should have just stomped Neo in base instead of fighting evenly like what's both on her profile, and shown clear as the sun in the cloudless sky in the fight itself. RWBY definitely has problems on it's profiles but Cinder fighting evenly with Neo is definitely not one of them.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Cinder powered up as a show of force to end the fight then and there, she didn't come there to fight Neo and didn't want to kill her, Cinder wanted to recruit her and just powered up as a means of forcing Neo to stand down.

That's honestly all there is to it, she didn't "struggle"' as you say she did, that's extremely obvious, so please stop outright ignoring the actual logical explanation for Cinder powering up that makes sense in both the fight scene itself and context.

 

[Spinoirr]

"Ok? She still can't hit someone who can sense things happening without even looking, which you still somehow can't grasp."

Adam and Fox both do just that, Adam fights with a blindfold on under a mask and Fox is completely blind, yet both can sense everything that is happening around them just fine, ad Cinder beats them. And again, Cinder beats Maria, who has instinctive reactions.

"It technically is. Plus, I need proof that wind is purely LS, and not AP. And Johnny's wind can cancel out Cinder's fire, so not only is it more powerful, it's also more useful here."

I dont understand why youre so hung up on the idea that Cinder will only be using fire here.

"If she can react in time, that is. It legit takes only 1 clap for his Hurricane Hands to activate."

And it takes a slight hand gesture for Cinder to do the same.

"She has the defenses to go through it, but not the strength."

She has Class G lifting strength. Unless Johnny has feats of blowing away someone with that kind of strength with his wind, she can force her way through it.

"...I wasn't comparing skill. The scans I was referring to were ES scans. Let me guess, you didn't click on them? And Johnny did that casually. What's your point? That was not a skill feat. That was ES (though in some cases, the 2 kinda go hand-in-hand). Plus, Johnny X isn't a CQC/H2H fighter. Don't know why you keep showing skill feats in CQC/H2H when Johnny is not that kind of fighter, and I wasn't trying to argue skill here. I was arguing that Johnny can dodge Cinder's attacks with no issue."

The point was that Cinder has beaten people with senses far better than Johnny's and with far better evasive skill than Johnny, ergo you cannot guarantee that he would be able to dodge her attacks.

"Johnny avoids easily. Plus, Johnny's Body Control is the perfect counter for decapitation."

You realize you just posted a clip of Johnny failing to stop a projectile because of the charge time and announcement of his hurricane hands right?

 

[Keeweed]

Adam doesn’t cover both his eyes. He covers only the branded one. Plus it’s a low 7-C vs a 8-C in both cases. Fox has something that negates the negatives of his blindness. Just to let everyone know I don’t care too much on this thread, I just wanted to point out those two things are nowhere near as impressive as you’re making them out to be.

 

[TauanVictor]

Cinder FRA.

 

[Ailamiona]

Voting Johnny FRA

 

[Popted2]

Grace