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We'll never convince you otherwise, so I'm completely fine with you pinging more staff.I understand the argument, but I don't consider that sufficient based on what the page says. I am happy to ping more staff to evaluate it if you think my interpretation of the standards is in error.
I find this argument right here very convincing, personally.Aizen created a device through using his intellect, which is capable of harnessing the full potential of a Soul King fragment, allowing him to warp the literal fabric of reality. It initially not working doesn't disprove the fact that when fully completed, it was capable of warping reality on a 3-A level, which is what is required for Supergenius. Just because you believe he achieved this after trial and error doesn't mean the feat doesn't exist. That's a complete nonsensical assertion, and one which actively grates against our standards. Characters of certain intelligence are still capable of intellectual failure, it doesn't disprove what has actually occurred.
Deagonx, the fragments on themselves aren't capable of warping reality on a Universal scale, that's why everyone with a fragment doesn't possess Universal ap or abilities. But Aizen and Kisuke, through their intelligence, were capable of unlocking that power, and created a device that by all accounts fulfills our requirements for Supergenius.
Agreed btw.Hello people. We're going to start a new series revising Bleach profiles in terms of range, intelligence, and such.
Arcker123/Sandbox3
vsbattles.fandom.com
Today we're going to start with Kisuke and Aizen, the smartest characters in the verse. Starting off with the hardest first. I'm going to justify why I gave them a Supergenius upgrade. Gonna be finishing scan mid thread because justifications are done.
According to the Intelligence page, one can get a Supergenius rating for technology if:
The bolded is the most important argument to the case here, and I believe that Aizen and Kisuke do this with their creation of the Hogyoku, a device that is stated to warp reality on the level of the entire Bleach world, which we accept to be composed of several universes (3-A to Low 2-C Structures). Scans in Sandbox,Thanks Damage.
Since Aizen and Kisuke can use their inventions to literally warp reality according to their wishes, they should have Supergenius intelligence. Kisuke also debatably has another Supergenius feat by manipulating the Dangai's time axis to shorten the range of its temporal BFR from centuries to only days. The Dangai we accept to be a Low 2-C structure.
If this gets accepted we need to unlock the Intelligence page directly to remove Aizen and Kisuke as examples of EG since we are updating them to SG. They should probably be examples of SG if this gets accepted due to their popularity but that should be discussed elsewhere, for now, just removing them from EG makes sense.
Kisuke vs Rick Sanchez is the match ngl.
Itachi still outthinks the "Creating bullshit mcguffins are my only intelligence feats" gang by the way. Getting good grades on a high school level exam as a child and true intellectual monologues about truth > Hogyoku merchants and psuedo intellectual speeches about truth.
Agree: Arc7Kuroi, Crobatman44, Bastolan27, LordGinSama, @Godernet, @Deceived3596, @Excel616, @SlendVeny, LordTracer, UchihaSlayer96 Neutral: Disagree: Deagonx
I completely forgot about my wo(mans) nglCould someone ping Lephyr too, they’re pretty good with Bleach and I don’t think their name got mentioned when the staff pinging was a happening
That point is completely irrelevant. To put it in an analogy sense: The fragment of the Hogyoku would be the equivalent of plutonium that someone like Oppenheimer would use for a nuclear bomb, its a fuel source, its still up to Aizen and Kisuke to create a means to measure it, test it, make sure it doesn't fall apart, understand what is wrong (many of these instances we know happened in the manga, as that is specifically why Aizen determined to feed his Hogyoku Kisuke's, as he also knew what was going on and why those hundreds of souls didn't work). Unless you can provide specific arguments as to why we can't give them the super genius rating, this argument should be viewed as irrelevant.I would not agree with this. According to the novels the Hogyoku are made by fragments of the Soul King, which is what grants them their power. As seen in this scan Aizen kept feeding his Hogyoku more and more souls but failed to perfect it, only succeeding when he took Urahara's Hogyoku and fed it to his own.
What we'd expect of someone of Supergenius intelligence is that their understanding of technology is so great that they can just construct 3-A technology through raw intellect. Using a fragment of a incredibly powerful being to create a failed wish granting device that only worked when they fed it hundreds of souls as well as another failed wish granting device doesn't really pass inspection for me, personally.
No tag him again.I didn't see Deagon's ping , lemme Hakai mine rq.
To add onto this, we have many characters on here who have enough to be granted super genius level intellect, like Iron Man, Batman, Hank Pym, Brainiac, and much like Aizen and Kisuke, they can create tech or devices that can affect their verses, but sometimes, these guys use things like Celestial Tech or Element X, yet its still up to them to create their suits (or whatever else the plot needs). So if they can be given super genius, why not Kisuke and Aizen?That point is completely irrelevant. To put it in an analogy sense: The fragment of the Hogyoku would be the equivalent of plutonium that someone like Oppenheimer would use for a nuclear bomb, its a fuel source, its still up to Aizen and Kisuke to create a means to measure it, test it, make sure it doesn't fall apart, understand what is wrong (many of these instances we know happened in the manga, as that is specifically why Aizen determined to feed his Hogyoku Kisuke's, as he also knew what was going on and why those hundreds of souls didn't work). Unless you can provide specific arguments as to why we can't give them the super genius rating, this argument should be viewed as irrelevant.
Well, as I said above, I don't think someone should have Supergenius Intelligence just for making something with Element X. Brainiac can straight up make a universe destroying device without Element X.these guys use things like Celestial Tech or Element X, yet its still up to them to create their suits (or whatever else the plot needs). So if they can be given super genius, why not Kisuke and Aizen?
Ehh, Character X being smarter than Character Y doesn't mean that Character Y can't occupy the same intelligence rating. It just means X is higher into it.Well, as I said above, I don't think someone should have Supergenius Intelligence just for making something with Element X. Brainiac can straight up make a universe destroying device without Element X.
I haven't read much of DC, so can't comment on it a lot of the times, but I am aware Brainiac also has things like having more knowledge than the entire universe put together when he was born. But even beyond that, what you said didn't counter what I pointed out, as its still up to them (Iron Man, Batman, or in this case, Aizen and Kisuke) to understand whatever the object they are using to reality warp the universe (Iron Man with Celestial Tech when he made the God Killer Mark 2 and the Hulkbuster, Batman with Element X when he created the Final Batsuit, or in this case, Aizen and Kisuke using the Soul King fragment). Also, your argument stems from that its a limiter of sorts, which you didn't show anything for it being the case.Well, as I said above, I don't think someone should have Supergenius Intelligence just for making something with Element X. Brainiac can straight up make a universe destroying device without Element X.
I agree, I'm not opposing the rating due to these characters being less intelligent than certain other characters, I am just using them as an example of what I believe the standard is, which is that a 3-A feat can be accomplished through one's technological prowess or intellect alone. "Feed this thing until it eventually gets strong enough" just doesn't really get there for me. It's fine if I'm outvoted, I recognize it as a matter of interpretation, that's just my perspective on it.Ehh, Character X being smarter than Character Y doesn't mean that Character Y can't occupy the same intelligence rating. It just means X is higher into it.
Legit dude is ignoring that very fact.Ehh, Character X being smarter than Character Y doesn't mean that Character Y can't occupy the same intelligence rating. It just means X is higher into it.
This doesn't contradict what I said, the analogy of the Soul King Fragment being the equivalent of plutonium for building a nuke does apply here. Remember Aizen and Kisuke had to make tests to see what works and what doesn't (which we for a fact know they did), otherwise if they were off, the Hogyoku wouldn't work as intended.I agree, I'm not opposing the rating due to these characters being less intelligent than certain other characters, I am just using them as an example of what I believe the standard is, which is that a 3-A feat can be accomplished through one's technological prowess or intellect alone. "Feed this thing until it eventually gets strong enough" just doesn't really get there for me. It's fine if I'm outvoted, I recognize it as a matter of interpretation, that's just my perspective on it.
I understand your point, and you are free to believe your interpretation, but as other people pointed out, the fragment of the soul king is an energy source without any inherent hax; look at Sado's trash fullbring, also the boost the hyogoku got from souls was always implied to be insignificant, like an adjuchas class hollow who cannot evolve no matter how many souls it consumed.I agree, I'm not opposing the rating due to these characters being less intelligent than certain other characters, I am just using them as an example of what I believe the standard is, which is that a 3-A feat can be accomplished through one's technological prowess or intellect alone. "Feed this thing until it eventually gets strong enough" just doesn't really get there for me. It's fine if I'm outvoted, I recognize it as a matter of interpretation, that's just my perspective on it.
I'm not sure it's allowed to format an intelligence section in that manner. That's like, 12 paragraphs just for the intelligence justification?Also Deagon, the Hogyoku isn't the only part of the Supergenius justification, I dedicated an entire section of Kisuke's intelligence section to that. Do you disagree with all of that?
I don't consider it extremely versatile to accomplish that one thing, I believe it falls under EG which they already have.Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well. Basically there should be a very extreme amount of versatility combined with a high or extremely high degree of scale.
Read the page. I'm not breaking any formatting rules.I'm not sure it's allowed to format an intelligence section in that manner. That's like, 12 paragraphs just for the intelligence justification?
Read the page to see all the feats. Why do you think I wrote it?However, my understanding is the other main feat proposed is shortening the time axis of the Dangai?
Nobody argued such. There's an "or" there for a reason. Scale alone can grant the rating, affecting temporality to such a degree is the argument.I don't consider it extremely versatile to accomplish that one thing, I believe it falls under EG which they already have.
Uh, why wouldn’t it be allowed?I'm not sure it's allowed to format an intelligence section in that manner. That's like, 12 paragraphs just for the intelligence justification?
Uh, why wouldn’t it be allowed?
Notes/Explanations
Notes can be considered as an extension of the references sections and should be used when the justification for something is too difficult to contextualize and eventually would need to involve several sentences to explain. This section can serve the purpose of explaining chain scaling and scaling values for the profiles.
It is important to emphasize that this is an optional enhancement and not inherently obligatory.