It has to be this way...

[BakiHanma18]

Guys, don't forget that Raiden has type 2 immortality and can shrug of lethal damage, that and his speed amps are way better than Yujiro's (10x plus a Rm boost which in-game makes BM at least 5 times faster, don't have an official value tho) and his ap amps are also not ignorable (in game RM is a 7x amp)
Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Speed amps aren't that much better, and Raiden starts in Blade Mode, so speed is equalized to Blade Mode Raiden.

Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

 

[BakiHanma18]

He swung his (Much shittier, might I add) sword 2 and made this 20 foot vortex of cuts the sliced apart the thing holding up the crates. What I meant is if he kept spamming that after activating Ripper Mode than Yujiro would be hard pressed to get close enough to him.

This is true, but that might make things worse, as Yujiro's only viable range options are a passive constant aura that inflicts madness and fear, as well as has a physical effect, Invisible Squash (which I don't think would be useful), and the Yujiro Hanma Demon Imagine Style projection, which almost blew up an entire city block, possibly more, with one use AND it amps Yujiro's precision, combat speed, strength, and possibly other stats

Just to set the record straight, cyborgs have fear inhibitors on top of the pain ones. They don't feel fear at all

It also applies physical damage and madness

 

[BakiHanma18]

and again with the 0.5 thing? Yujiro CAN'T put Raiden down in that short amount of time, it's IMPOSSIBLE given Raiden's stamina and immortality.
And are we forgetting that Raiden starts in BM? He literally starts by slashing, 10 times faster than Yujiro's reaction speed, how is he supposed to approach Raiden without being turned into salsa?

Speed is equalized to BM Raiden...

 

[BakiHanma18]

Honestly your explaination of the 0.5 s goes completely in the face of what we are actually told about it and it's completely different but whatever, let's not derail since, as I said, the 0,5 is irrelevant

Paraphrase: "Someone is triggered by an event, and then after 0.5 seconds, they can act. Hanma Brain allows someone to skip the timeframe".

It is literally exactly what I've said, and no, it is 100% relevant, but okay

 

[BakiHanma18]

I really doubt that it's gonna have any relevance and remember, the fight starts with Raiden slashing at Yujiro at 10x+ speed, unless Yujiro can counter that somehow the fight ends right there

Since speed is equalized to BM Raiden, Yujiro should be fine to spam sense manipulation amongst other hax

 

[BakiHanma18]

I don't think Jack has senses on humans level to let that work on him.
In MGS2 as a human he already had enhanced senses due to nanotechnology inside of him (mainly vision) and in Rising he has dealt with Blade Wolf who can make himself invisible, Sam who can create afterimages et cetera

Just remember that the sense manipulation worked on Baki, who himself has some pretty crazy enhanced senses, including a Sixth sense

 

[Twellas]

Guys, don't forget that Raiden has type 2 immortality and can shrug of lethal damage, that and his speed amps are way better than Yujiro's (10x plus a Rm boost which in-game makes BM at least 5 times faster, don't have an official value tho) and his ap amps are also not ignorable (in game RM is a 7x amp)
Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Speed amps aren't that much better, and Raiden starts in Blade Mode, so speed is equalized to Blade Mode Raiden.
Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

yeah no, the speed is not equalized to BM, he just starts that way just like Yujiro starts in DB

 

[BakiHanma18]

Prediction isn't going to help you dodge something that is several times faster than you are, the fact that you PHYSICALLY can't move fast enough to dodge it still stands, and it's not a single attack, it's a barrage from all directions, even if Yujiro manages to dodge one several others are gonna come right after that one from a whole other direction.

Countering being outsped it literally one of the bonuses Prediction affords someone. 10x amp might be enough to hit Yujiro before he can move, but it's not 10x, it's considerably less than that with Yujiro's amps. With something like Udonde, he could literally dodge them all without even facing a different direction

 

[BakiHanma18]

Seriously, it's like saying that a martial arts master's skills are gonna help him dodge a point-blank gunshot: yes, he know it's coming, yes, he knows how to dodge it effectively, but nothing is gonna change the fact that the bullet is gonna come out before he can even move

I'd love to see Earl's reaction to "skills are going to help"

 

[Twellas]

How many times do I have to say that Yujiro has no way of killing Raiden in the 0,5 and as soon as it wears out Raiden is completely dicing Yujiro, because RM boosts his speed BY A LOT on top of the already far superior 10x of the BM

 

[BakiHanma18]

Robots don't have senses they analyse information, senses are moot
0.5 useless for reasons I already went over

Musashi's blade projection was visible on TV's across the nation of Japan, so Raiden should be able to be affected

 

[BakiHanma18]

Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

^

 

[BakiHanma18]

Guys, don't forget that Raiden has type 2 immortality and can shrug of lethal damage, that and his speed amps are way better than Yujiro's (10x plus a Rm boost which in-game makes BM at least 5 times faster, don't have an official value tho) and his ap amps are also not ignorable (in game RM is a 7x amp)
Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Speed amps aren't that much better, and Raiden starts in Blade Mode, so speed is equalized to Blade Mode Raiden.
Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

yeah no, the speed is not equalized to BM, he just starts that way just like Yujiro starts in DB

That's wrong, speed is equalized to BM, so no 4x speed amp for Yujiro, but no amp for Raiden either

SPEED EQUALIZED

YUJIRO STARTS IN DB

RAIDEN IN BLADE MODE

 

[Twellas]

Honestly your explaination of the 0.5 s goes completely in the face of what we are actually told about it and it's completely different but whatever, let's not derail since, as I said, the 0,5 is irrelevant

Paraphrase: "Someone is triggered by an event, and then after 0.5 seconds, they can act. Hanma Brain allows someone to skip the timeframe".
It is literally exactly what I've said, and no, it is 100% relevant, but okay

except that the way in which Oliva explains shows that it's not a Hanma specific ability and it is used in general by martial artists, which means that you simply need to have a certain speed in order to perform it, i quote "it's a unique idea developed only in japanese martial arts", also, in case you wanna say that "the 0,5 is just a name, it's not actually half a second, it works in less time", we are LITERALLY shown a chronometer during Baki's usage and it shows that it works only during the 0,5 seconds.

 

[BakiHanma18]

How many times do I have to say that Yujiro has no way of killing Raiden in the 0,5 and as soon as it wears out Raiden is completely dicing Yujiro, because RM boosts his speed BY A LOT on top of the already far superior 10x of the BM

Saying it more doesn't make it any more true. Yujiro doesn't get his free hit in 0.5 because Raiden can't fall unconscious, and the amp for RM isn't that big of a deal with Raiden massively outskilled and Yujiro's amps, a reaction amp for Sangan being at least 2.25x, amongst many temporary combat speed amps.

 

[Twellas]

Guys, don't forget that Raiden has type 2 immortality and can shrug of lethal damage, that and his speed amps are way better than Yujiro's (10x plus a Rm boost which in-game makes BM at least 5 times faster, don't have an official value tho) and his ap amps are also not ignorable (in game RM is a 7x amp)
Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Speed amps aren't that much better, and Raiden starts in Blade Mode, so speed is equalized to Blade Mode Raiden.
Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

yeah no, the speed is not equalized to BM, he just starts that way just like Yujiro starts in DB

That's wrong, speed is equalized to BM, so no 4x speed amp for Yujiro, but no amp for Raiden either
SPEED EQUALIZED

YUJIRO STARTS IN DB

RAIDEN IN BLADE MODE

Even if we say that (that's not how it works, the op would have specified it) Raiden has a huge speed amp in the form of his RM, which is not really quantifiable but in-game gives a DRASTIC boost.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Honestly your explaination of the 0.5 s goes completely in the face of what we are actually told about it and it's completely different but whatever, let's not derail since, as I said, the 0,5 is irrelevant

Paraphrase: "Someone is triggered by an event, and then after 0.5 seconds, they can act. Hanma Brain allows someone to skip the timeframe".
It is literally exactly what I've said, and no, it is 100% relevant, but okay

except that the way in which Oliva explains shows that it's not a Hanma specific ability and it is used in general by martial artists, which means that you simply need to have a certain speed in order to perform it, i quote "it's a unique idea developed only in japanese martial arts", also, in case you wanna say that "the 0,5 is just a name, it's not actually half a second, it works in less time", we are LITERALLY shown a chronometer during Baki's usage and it shows that it works only during the 0,5 seconds.

No, martial artist can shorten their reaction time or speed up the timeframe, but only the Hanma Brain can outright skip it, check the Ogre Physiology page on this site before making claims. And that's still a Death of the Author fallacy. You wanna make it actually 0.5 seconds? Make a third CRT. As of rn, the most current CRT, 0.5 is NOT 0.5 seconds, still stands

 

[Twellas]

He swung his (Much shittier, might I add) sword 2 and made this 20 foot vortex of cuts the sliced apart the thing holding up the crates. What I meant is if he kept spamming that after activating Ripper Mode than Yujiro would be hard pressed to get close enough to him.

This is true, but that might make things worse, as Yujiro's only viable range options are a passive constant aura that inflicts madness and fear, as well as has a physical effect, Invisible Squash (which I don't think would be useful), and the Yujiro Hanma Demon Imagine Style projection, which almost blew up an entire city block, possibly more, with one use AND it amps Yujiro's precision, combat speed, strength, and possibly other stats

Just to set the record straight, cyborgs have fear inhibitors on top of the pain ones. They don't feel fear at all

It also applies physical damage and madness

the madness part is just false, all that happened to those soldiers is that they they panicked, and again, Raiden outranges the aura

 

[BakiHanma18]

Guys, don't forget that Raiden has type 2 immortality and can shrug of lethal damage, that and his speed amps are way better than Yujiro's (10x plus a Rm boost which in-game makes BM at least 5 times faster, don't have an official value tho) and his ap amps are also not ignorable (in game RM is a 7x amp)
Also this: "...Bloodlusted characters fear nothing, and won't hesitate taking injures if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle." and as we said, 1 hit from an HF blade is game over for Yujiro

Speed amps aren't that much better, and Raiden starts in Blade Mode, so speed is equalized to Blade Mode Raiden.
Also, right after the bolded part, it says "if it leads to a higher probability of winning a battle", so no, Yujiro isn't letting the sword touch him

yeah no, the speed is not equalized to BM, he just starts that way just like Yujiro starts in DB

That's wrong, speed is equalized to BM, so no 4x speed amp for Yujiro, but no amp for Raiden either
SPEED EQUALIZED

YUJIRO STARTS IN DB

RAIDEN IN BLADE MODE

Even if we say that (that's not how it works, the op would have specified it) Raiden has a huge speed amp in the form of his RM, which is not really quantifiable but in-game gives a DRASTIC boost.

If we bring up unquantifiable boosts, Yujiro's got tons that amp the original user to blitz people that outsped them. Qualifiable, Yujiro has the "at least 2.25x" reaction boost from Sangan. Unqualifiable, he's got Mach Punch, Hitless Blow, FLS, Jab, etc

 

[BakiHanma18]

He swung his (Much shittier, might I add) sword 2 and made this 20 foot vortex of cuts the sliced apart the thing holding up the crates. What I meant is if he kept spamming that after activating Ripper Mode than Yujiro would be hard pressed to get close enough to him.

This is true, but that might make things worse, as Yujiro's only viable range options are a passive constant aura that inflicts madness and fear, as well as has a physical effect, Invisible Squash (which I don't think would be useful), and the Yujiro Hanma Demon Imagine Style projection, which almost blew up an entire city block, possibly more, with one use AND it amps Yujiro's precision, combat speed, strength, and possibly other stats

Just to set the record straight, cyborgs have fear inhibitors on top of the pain ones. They don't feel fear at all

It also applies physical damage and madness

the madness part is just false, all that happened to those soldiers is that they they panicked, and again, Raiden outranges the aura

Make a CRT. He has Madness manipulation

 

[Twellas]

Honestly your explaination of the 0.5 s goes completely in the face of what we are actually told about it and it's completely different but whatever, let's not derail since, as I said, the 0,5 is irrelevant

Paraphrase: "Someone is triggered by an event, and then after 0.5 seconds, they can act. Hanma Brain allows someone to skip the timeframe".
It is literally exactly what I've said, and no, it is 100% relevant, but okay

except that the way in which Oliva explains shows that it's not a Hanma specific ability and it is used in general by martial artists, which means that you simply need to have a certain speed in order to perform it, i quote "it's a unique idea developed only in japanese martial arts", also, in case you wanna say that "the 0,5 is just a name, it's not actually half a second, it works in less time", we are LITERALLY shown a chronometer during Baki's usage and it shows that it works only during the 0,5 seconds.

No, martial artist can shorten their reaction time or speed up the timeframe, but only the Hanma Brain can outright skip it, check the Ogre Physiology page on this site before making claims. And that's still a Death of the Author fallacy. You wanna make it actually 0.5 seconds? Make a third CRT. As of rn, the most current CRT, 0.5 is NOT 0.5 seconds, still stands

I mean, i don't reaqlly care about CRTs for Baki, but it's pretty much ridiculous to argue against a LITERAL chronometer about the time it takes for something to happen. Again, Yujiro can't put down Raiden in that time-frame and Raiden eventually outlasts either way due to being faster, having better stamina, a 1-hit KO and FAAAAR superior lifting strength if the fight goes h2h, yes, Yujiro outskills by a significant margin, but all Raiden has to do is get both his hands on Yujiro and it's game over, and that's if it even comes to h2h

 

[Twellas]

Does the fear and madness inducement even work on people who aren't ridiculously weaker than him? Because those soldiers were average humans. And again, he just outranges no problem

 

[BakiHanma18]

Honestly your explaination of the 0.5 s goes completely in the face of what we are actually told about it and it's completely different but whatever, let's not derail since, as I said, the 0,5 is irrelevant

Paraphrase: "Someone is triggered by an event, and then after 0.5 seconds, they can act. Hanma Brain allows someone to skip the timeframe".
It is literally exactly what I've said, and no, it is 100% relevant, but okay

except that the way in which Oliva explains shows that it's not a Hanma specific ability and it is used in general by martial artists, which means that you simply need to have a certain speed in order to perform it, i quote "it's a unique idea developed only in japanese martial arts", also, in case you wanna say that "the 0,5 is just a name, it's not actually half a second, it works in less time", we are LITERALLY shown a chronometer during Baki's usage and it shows that it works only during the 0,5 seconds.

No, martial artist can shorten their reaction time or speed up the timeframe, but only the Hanma Brain can outright skip it, check the Ogre Physiology page on this site before making claims. And that's still a Death of the Author fallacy. You wanna make it actually 0.5 seconds? Make a third CRT. As of rn, the most current CRT, 0.5 is NOT 0.5 seconds, still stands

I mean, i don't reaqlly care about CRTs for Baki, but it's pretty much ridiculous to argue against a LITERAL chronometer about the time it takes for something to happen.
Again, Yujiro can't put down Raiden in that time-frame and Raiden eventually outlasts either way due to being faster and better stamina

Except Yujiro's skill gap, speed amps, same level of stamina (both Extremely High), and passive constant damaging aura that inflicts Madness, and Sense manip, and limited invisiblility, and Pseudo Intang, and Instinctive Reaction, and Sixth Sense, and Analytical Prediction all say no

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yujiro's fear and madness only has shown to work on fodders

 

[BakiHanma18]

Does the fear and madness inducement even work on people who aren't ridiculously weaker than him? Because those soldiers were average humans

Even Baki, who was comparable, pissed himself twice just from a brief scuffle

 

[BakiHanma18]

Yujiro's fear and madness only has shown to work on fodders

Fear worked on Baki though?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Wouldn't work on Jack

Fear inhibitors and stuff. Even then, his courage and willpower is out of scale

 

[Twellas]

Does the fear and madness inducement even work on people who aren't ridiculously weaker than him? Because those soldiers were average humans

Even Baki, who was comparable, pissed himself twice just from a brief scuffle

pissing yourself isn't really relevant in a fight, and again, Raiden can't feel fear

 

[BakiHanma18]

Wouldn't work on Jack
Fear inhibitors and stuff.

Madness doesn't work either?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

When was this again?

My point still stands for madness, and Im 99.9% sure Raiden resists fear anyway

 

[SpookyShadow]

I'm pretty sure emotions that are making him unwilling to fight (which wouldn't happen anyway with his natural willpower) are on inhibitors.

 

[BakiHanma18]

When was this again?
My point still stands for madness, and Im 99.9% sure Raiden resists fear anyway

He does, and the Baki v Yujiro fight, I'll get the scans later, since that point is moot now, but one chapter starts with Baki saying "I, Baki Hanma, have pissed myself twice already" toward the beginning

 

[BakiHanma18]

So now it's just Yujiro's skill gap, speed amps, same level of stamina (both Extremely High), and passive constant damaging aura, and Sense manip, and limited invisiblility, and Pseudo Intang, and Instinctive Reaction, and Sixth Sense, and Analytical Prediction

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm pretty sure emotions that are making him unwilling to fight (which wouldn't happen anyway with his natural willpower) are on inhibitors.

Because of the inhibitors, I see. I'll drop that point

 

[Twellas]

" Except Yujiro's skill gap, speed amps, same level of stamina (both Extremely High), and passive constant damaging aura that inflicts Madness, and Sense manip, and limited invisiblility, and Pseudo Intang, and Instinctive Reaction, and Sixth Sense, and Analytical Prediction all say no"

ok about the skill gap, Raiden also has a very significant speed amp and he's the faster character (still not buying that it's equalized to his BM, it would have been specified).

Yujiro has no feat stamina that comes even remotely close to half of what Raiden could do with his fodder MGS4 body, let alone his MGR one, can you show me Yujiro fighting with both his lungs pierced along with his heart and no arms?

Raiden outranges the aura and no-sells the damage,

sense manip is completely useless and probably wouldn't even work,

Raiden's visor gives him heat vision, invisibility doesn't work

None of these abilities prove that Yujiro can put Raiden down in the 0.5, none of them are even offensive, why would you even bring them up?

 

[SpookyShadow]

What are Yujiro's stamina feats? Because I think he never fought with no arms, survived being crushed by extremely massive island-ship after holding it back with one hand, was unscatched by having an extreme beatdown with pain inhibitors off or give no ***** about being impaled or stabbed in vital points multiple times in fight. And that's only few of Jack's ridiculous stamina feats.

 

[Twellas]

Seriously, let's not even pretend that Yujiro's stamina is on par with Raiden's, ok? The dude's stamina is ridiculous, he literally has a combat-related immortality and Yujiro doesn't, the stamina argument should finish right there

 

[BakiHanma18]

" Except Yujiro's skill gap, speed amps, same level of stamina (both Extremely High), and passive constant damaging aura that inflicts Madness, and Sense manip, and limited invisiblility, and Pseudo Intang, and Instinctive Reaction, and Sixth Sense, and Analytical Prediction all say no"
ok about the skill gap, Raiden also has a very significant speed amp and he's the faster character (still not buying that it's equalized to his BM, it would have been specified).

Yujiro has no feat stamina that comes even remotely close to half of what Raiden could do with his fodder MGS4 body, let alone his MGR one, can you show me Yujiro fighting with both his lungs pierced along with his heart and no arms?

Raiden outranges the aura and no-sells the damage,

sense manip is completely useless and probably wouldn't even work,

Raiden's visor gives him heat vision, invisibility doesn't work

None of these abilities prove that Yujiro can put Raiden down in the 0.5, none of them are even offensive, why would you even bring them up?

I'll ask OP

He's not even blinked at worse, I'll worry about scans if this actually becomes a point, though I don't think stamina is actually going to be a deciding factor here

Burden of Proof. I already gave proof how Baki illusions can be picked up by TVs, what makes Raiden able to resist Sense manip?

That doesn't do anything when the invisibility is via Yujiro using Instinctive Reaction to dodge Raiden's line of sight

Bro, what are you talking about? This interaction won't have to take place in 0.5 seconds, 0.5 seconds isn't the actual time as I've already established, AND they all stop Jack from being able to even touch Yujiro. At this point, Yujiro has all the time in the world to use whatever move he wants

 

[BakiHanma18]

What are Yujiro's stamina feats? Because I think he never fought with no arms, survived being crushed by extremely massive island-ship after holding it back with one hand, was unscatched by having an extreme beatdown with pain inhibitors off or give no ***** about being impaled or stabbed in vital points multiple times in fight. And that's only few of Jack's ridiculous stamina feats.

I'll grab some stamina feats later, first I want to ask OP about the "speed equalized" thing, which could invalidate many votes iirc

 

[BakiHanma18]

I've asked and await a response

Edit: From what I've just read, all 7 of Jack's votes are somewhat reliant on Jack's 10x amp. What do we do if it turns out that speed is equalized including the 10x amp?