Issues with scaling for the MHA verse

[TheRustyOne]

At that point there's no saying Iida can one shot a Three Pointer, since he could be aiming for the less durable parts of the robots.

I mean Damage already brought up a far bigger problem with the Aizawa calc, since the speed of his eyes opening shouldn't be that much slower than his eyes closing. The real problem is that Todoroki doesn't need to form the entire Ice wall to block Aizawa's line of sight, it just needs to be big enough to cover himself before he sees them.

So he doesn't have to make the entire ice wall in the time it takes him to blink, but just cover himself, which would vastly lowers the results.

 

[Metalballrun]

Yeah the argument for the speed of Todoroki's ice hinges on whether or not it really took place within a blink of an eye for him to create the ice wall. And also what constitutes a blink, like is it just the closing of the eyes or both the closing and reopening that happens at 0.1 seconds.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

At that point there's no saying Iida can one shot a Three Pointer, since he could be aiming for the less durable parts of the robots.

I mean Damage already brought up a far bigger problem with the Aizawa calc, since the speed of his eyes opening shouldn't be that much slower than his eyes closing. The real problem is that Todoroki doesn't need to form the entire Ice wall to block Aizawa's line of sight, it just needs to be big enough to cover himself before he sees them.

So he doesn't have to make the entire ice wall in the time it takes him to blink, but just cover himself, which would vastly lowers the results.

The 3 pointer unlike the one pointer has no known weak point that could beat it in one blow though. It doesn't even seem to have visible eyes to attack.

 

[TheRustyOne]

That's an assumption, we don't know that. For all we know all of the robots could have weaker parts, sans the zero pointer. Unless we're saying the most durable part of the one pointer is superior to the three pointers durability. I don't think the robots should vary much in durability at all, only the zero pointer is far superior.

The three pointer is just slightly bigger and can shoot missiles or something similar. Besides the three pointers have no dura feats anyway, the one pointers feat are 9-B as well. So destroy those robots are at most 9-B.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

That's an assumption, we don't know that. For all we know all of the robots could have weaker parts, sans the zero pointer. Unless we're saying the most durable part of the one pointer is superior to the three pointers durability. I don't think the robots should vary much in durability at all, only the zero pointer is far superior.

The three pointer is just slightly bigger and can shoot missiles or something similar. Besides the three pointers have no dura feats anyway, the one pointers feat are 9-B as well. So destroy those robots are at most 9-B.

Slightly bigger? It's like over twice the bulk of the one point bot. The fact that Iida doesn't oneshot a one point bot makes no sense when we see characters like Kirishima and Aoyama do the same and even then three pointers are made to be tougher than one pointers that are explicitly described as fragile. Iida one shotting the toughest bot then being unable to beat the glass cannon makes no sense.

The three pointers are implied to be tougher by their build, point value and the description of the one pointers: fast bust fragile

 

[TheRustyOne]

I mean be bigger wouldn't make the more durable, it's about the thickness of their armor, which we can't measure. Kirishima and Aoyama's lasers are superior to Iida in this case, simple answer.

Nothing compares them to him, at least to my knowledge.

Though I'll drop this, since this seems rather unimportant for anything in the verse.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I mean be bigger wouldn't make the more durable, it's about the thickness of their armor, which we can't measure. Kirishima and Aoyama's lasers are superior to Iida in this case, simple answer.

Nothing compares them to him, at least to my knowledge.

Though I'll drop this, since this seems rather unimportant for anything in the verse.

That's fine all I was trying to say is 5% isn't a small boost based on how his base and 5% compare to Iida

Btw, I know most of us assumed this already but Hawks is confirmed to be the fastest in the top ten by the Ultra Analysis book.

 

[Earthyboy]

That argument was already debunked: "Given the level my body's at, even when I control it, it only gives a small increase in power".

Show me where and when he was comparing it to 100%.


Characters jumping from 8-C+ to High 8-C is not sketchy at all, especially because Base Deku is downscaling from High 8-C.


Casual Gran Torino can hurt Full Cowl 5% Deku just fine, that's a perfectly good feat for me.

It seems I missed this so I'll just address it.

The problem isn't with the statement itself, it's how people view it. You can't just say that Base Izuku is like 3-4 times weaker then 5% just because he considers that power a small increase. What classifies as small differs from person to person. Is 1 grains of sand small? What about 20 grains of sand? Obviously, 1 grains of sand is smaller then 20 grains of sand, but some people might consider 20 grains of sand small as well.

There's no way to legitimately determine the value of what "small" means here. It's basically impossible. The response differs from person to person because some people have different views on what "small" means. Tell me, can you objectively prove to me why small (in this scenario) actually means a 3-4 times gap? Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Earthy makes sense here

 

[BlackeJan]

EarthyBoy said what I was also thinking lol

 

[Damage3245]

There's that - and there's also feats we need to consider.

The My Hero Academia movie where 5% currently gets its scaling in this calc has him obliterate a steel pillar with a kick.

Whereas 5% Deku during his training with Gran Torino can't even break through a wall. In fact he's more damaged than the wall is when he jumps into it.

So even if you wanted to believe that base Deku is comparable in some way to 5%, he should not be comparable to "Large Building level" 5%. So base Deku's current rating is wrong either way.

 

[BlackeJan]

Well imma have to stop right there. Think of OFA's power like a SSJ transformation, it gives off either a multiplier or an addition to the base form. So we could say that 5% Deku (Movie) > 5% Deku (Training with Gran Torino)

The reason why I say this because it was already stated numerous Tims that in order for Deku to utilize OFA's power, he needs to keep training his body

 

[Earthyboy]

Well imma have to stop right there. Think of OFA's power like a SSJ transformation, it gives off either a multiplier or an addition to the base form. So we could say that 5% Deku (Movie) > 5% Deku (Training with Gran Torino)

The reason why I say this because it was already stated numerous Tims that in order for Deku to utilize OFA's power, he needs to keep training his body

Is there even any proof that it's a multiplier, to begin with? Sure he has to train his body but that's because he needs to utilize 100% eventually.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Is there even any proof that it's a multiplier, to begin with? Sure he has to train his body but that's because he needs to utilize 100% eventually.

I was under the impression it was additive like Kurama’s chakra in Naruto.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I was under the impression it was additive like Kurama’s chakra in Naruto.

Same tbh

 

[BlackeJan]

Is there even any proof that it's a multiplier, to begin with? Sure he has to train his body but that's because he needs to utilize 100% eventually.

I didn't say it had one, I was giving an example of how the power of OFA could act. I said think of the power like a multiplier or addition

 

[Earthyboy]

I didn't say it had one, I was giving an example of how the power of OFA could act. I said think of the power like a multiplier or addition

Ok then.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Ok I’m back what is the current discussion

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ok I’m back what is the current discussion

IIRC Low 7-B and High 8-C/8-C scaling

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

IIRC Low 7-B and High 8-C/8-C scaling

So it appears the argument is over base Deku scaling to 5% again

and more controversial low 7-B stuff
Likely off of the near high ends

 

[Damage3245]

I'll be making a thread tonight or this weekend to go through the students' revisions, along with other lower-tier characters.

Something we need to address is the arbitrary jumping up of tiers:

Large Building level (Blocked an attack from Eraser Head. Comparable to other members of the League of Villains as their leader)

Large Building level (Superior to his previous state)

Large Building level+ (Has trained with Gigantomachia non-stop for a month and a half, making him considerably stronger than before)

Even if we grant Tomura getting stronger from his fighting with Gigantomachia (which doesn't seem that clear), why jump up to a + sign? There's no reason for it.

Stuff like this will be covered in my CRT.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I'll be making a thread tonight or this weekend to go through the students' revisions, along with other lower-tier characters.

Something we need to address is the arbitrary jumping up of tiers:







Even if we grant Tomura getting stronger from his fighting with Gigantomachia (which doesn't seem that clear), why jump up to a + sign? There's no reason for it.

Stuff like this will be covered in my CRT.

While I know this isn’t that CRT are you suggesting in the case of Shiggy at least
He becomes
At least Large Building Level possibly higher rather than upscaling him to a +

 

[Damage3245]

At least Large Building Level possibly higher rather than upscaling him to a +

I feel like this kind of wording would be better, yeah.

 

[Therefir]

The problem isn't with the statement itself, it's how people view it. You can't just say that Base Izuku is like 3-4 times weaker then 5% just because he considers that power a small increase. What classifies as small differs from person to person. Is 1 grains of sand small? What about 20 grains of sand? Obviously, 1 grains of sand is smaller then 20 grains of sand, but some people might consider 20 grains of sand small as well.

There's no way to legitimately determine the value of what "small" means here. It's basically impossible. The response differs from person to person because some people have different views on what "small" means. Tell me, can you objectively prove to me why small (in this scenario) actually means a 3-4 times gap? Go ahead, I'll wait.

What someone considers small varies from person to person, yes, but we do have an idea of what Deku considers "a small increase", thanks to his statement about the difference between 5% and 8%, a difference that we actually know the value thanks to our calculations.

Since that difference is what Deku considers small, then there should be no problem in using this statement as a feat.

Deku also posseses other feats as well, like being able to make Todoroki's body tremble with a headbutt, or cut in half a robot that a kick from Iida was unable to break.

Iida can hurt Deku with his punches, so his kicks should be obviously stronger.

 

[Therefir]

@Damage3245 Aizawa can overpower Bakugo, who is comparable to 5% in strength, so in theory, being stronger than him would make you Large Building level+ or at least very close to it.

 

[BlackeJan]

Deku also posseses other feats as well, like being able to make Todoroki's body tremble with a headbutt, or cut in half a robot that a kick from Iida was unable to break.

Iirc Deku said he used the robot’s weight to his advantage to damage it. Well that was what the sun said in anime iirc

 

[Earthyboy]

What someone considers small varies from person to person, yes, but we do have an idea of what Deku considers "a small increase", thanks to his statement about the difference between 5% and 8%, a difference that we actually know the value thanks to our calculations.

Since that difference is what Deku considers small, then there should be no problem in using this statement as a feat.

Deku also posseses other feats as well, like being able to make Todoroki's body tremble with a headbutt, or cut in half a robot that a kick from Iida was unable to break.

Iida can hurt Deku with his punches, so his kicks should be obviously stronger.

That's still a very vague and arguably terrible to way gauge "what he considers small." Not only is that an entirely different example where it's the case of the difference between 5% and 8%, but there's also no way of telling if it's smaller than the gap between his base, or larger. If it were smaller than something, he'd consider it already small? Of course, it'd be small. That's the problem here. Therefore, we can't use it. It's too vague like Izuku's statement.

The other feats you've mentioned are when Izuku basically was damaging an already frostbitten Todoroki, and mind you Todoroki's durability is already up in the air considering he took a punch that had four broken fingers, which would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the punch. Not only that, Izuku wasn't even looking to knock Todoroki out of the ring, he was trying to get him to use his fire most of the time. It can be inferred that he was making some sort of effort to hold back.

These arguments are just too vague to be taken literally. Either find some legitimate proof or wait until Damage posts the thread.

 

[Therefir]

Iirc Deku said he used the robot’s weight to his advantage to damage it. Well that was what the sun said in anime iirc

That statement doesn't seem to be in the manga, and the One-Point Bots can run through walls completely undamaged.

The robots can also withstand a tail attack from Ojiro.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

That's still a very vague and arguably terrible to way gauge "what he considers small." Not only is that an entirely different example where it's the case of the difference between 5% and 8%, but there's also no way of telling if it's smaller than the gap between his base, or larger. If it were smaller than something, he'd consider it already small? Of course, it'd be small. That's the problem here. Therefore, we can't use it. It's too vague like Izuku's statement.

The other feats you've mentioned are when Izuku basically was damaging an already frostbitten Todoroki, and mind you Todoroki's durability is already up in the air considering he took a punch that had four broken fingers, which would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the punch. Not only that, Izuku wasn't even looking to knock Todoroki out of the ring, he was trying to get him to use his fire most of the time. It can be inferred that he was making some sort of effort to hold back.

These arguments are just too vague to be taken literally. Either find some legitimate proof or wait until Damage posts the thread.

If it’s vague/too vague I’d suggest using a “possibly” rating as a middle ground

although I also advise waiting for damage to make the revision thread

 

[Therefir]

The other feats you've mentioned are when Izuku basically was damaging an already frostbitten Todoroki, and mind you Todoroki's durability is already up in the air considering he took a punch that had four broken fingers, which would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the punch. Not only that, Izuku wasn't even looking to knock Todoroki out of the ring, he was trying to get him to use his fire most of the time. It can be inferred that he was making some sort of effort to hold back.

These arguments are just too vague to be taken literally. Either find some legitimate proof or wait until Damage posts the thread.

The strength of a punch comes mainly from the chest muscles, his fingers being broken or not would make no difference.

Izuku stated multiple times throughout the tournament that everyone was giving their all, including himself, that's why he wanted Todoroki to give his all as well, but that doesn't mean he was going easy on Todoroki, that would contradict the entire point.

Deku even went past his limits and ignored the pain of his broken fingers and left arm just to keep fighting, he really wanted to win.

 

[KingTempest]

Here's my question.

Ochako Uraraka
Durability: Large Building level (Survived an attack from Nine, but ended up losing consciousness)

Why is this a justification?

 

[Therefir]

That's still a very vague and arguably terrible to way gauge "what he considers small." Not only is that an entirely different example where it's the case of the difference between 5% and 8%, but there's also no way of telling if it's smaller than the gap between his base, or larger. If it were smaller than something, he'd consider it already small? Of course, it'd be small. That's the problem here. Therefore, we can't use it. It's too vague like Izuku's statement.

And not sure why it's an entirely different example when in both cases he is just comparing the strength level, not to mention that it's the only thing we have to gauge the difference.

You implying base Deku is thousands of times weaker than his 5% would be even more contradictory than just using that statement.

 

[BlackeJan]

That statement doesn't seem to be in the manga, and the One-Point Bots can run through walls completely undamaged.

The robots can also withstand a tail attack from Ojiro.

It was the start of the Obstacle Race. Also I don’t see how Ojiro plays a factor in this. We don’t know how strong he is

 

[Therefir]

Here's my question.

Ochako Uraraka
Durability: Large Building level (Survived an attack from Nine, but ended up losing consciousness)

Why is this a justification?

What's wrong it? She survived a dragon attack from Nine, which can seriously hurt both Bakugo and Deku, she lose consciousness shortly after so she is not enterely on their level of durability.

 

[Damage3245]

Here's my question.

Ochako Uraraka
Durability: Large Building level (Survived an attack from Nine, but ended up losing consciousness)

Why is this a justification?

Just more bonkers movie scaling.

And that's not all. Ochaco's AP is scaling from Neito who is scaling to Mina, who is scaling to Slice. A character in the movies that doesn't even have a profile.

 

[KingTempest]

What's wrong it? She survived a dragon attack from Nine, which can seriously hurt both Bakugo and Deku, she lose consciousness shortly after so she is not enterely on their level of durability.

When did we scale off of surviving?

 

[Therefir]

It was the start of the Obstacle Race. Also I don’t see how Ojiro plays a factor in this. We don’t know how strong he is

I just reread the start of the Obstacle Race in the manga and it doesn't say anything about it. Maybe it was just anime-only?

Ojiro can hurt Kirishima's Hardened form so we do know how strong he is.

 

[Therefir]

Just more bonkers movie scaling.

And that's not all. Ochaco's AP is scaling from Neito who is scaling to Mina, who is scaling to Slice. A character in the movies that doesn't even have a profile.

Ochaco is scaling from the Quirk that Neito was using, which is Poltergeist, which can injure Mina.

Slice can hurt Dark Shadow and fight on par with Tokoyami + Dark Shadow, so we just need to create a profile for her.

 

[Therefir]

When did we scale off of surviving?

Like always? Otherwise Uraraka would have been a puddle of blood if she didn't have enough durability.

 

[Earthyboy]

The strength of a punch comes mainly from the chest muscles, his fingers being broken or not would make no difference.

Izuku stated multiple times throughout the tournament that everyone was giving their all, including himself, that's why he wanted Todoroki to give his all as well, but that doesn't mean he was going easy on Todoroki, that would contradict the entire point.

Deku even went past his limits and ignored the pain of his broken fingers and left arm just to keep fighting, he really wanted to win.

That's not what I mean. The effectiveness of the punch would be decreased since the area that Izuku's hitting Todoroki with has been damaged severely to the point that his hand might as well have been broken. In fact, I remember Todoroki saying his hands were broken. This would decrease the grip strength he'd have and grip strength obviously is tied to punching power. Therefore, the effectiveness of the punch is decreased.

And not sure why it's an entirely different example when in both cases he is just comparing the strength level, not to mention that it's the only thing we have to gauge the difference.

I explained why it's an entirely different example due to the fact that in this situation the percentages can't be compared. The difference between the percentages could be lower or greater than the difference between Izuku's, but we can't find evidence to prove that.

You implying base Deku is thousands of times weaker than his 5% would be even more contradictory than just using that statement.

Also, don't strawman me. I never said Base Izuku should thousands of times weaker than his 5%. I only said that the reasoning behind his downscaling is completely bullshit. That aside, I can't really think of anything which would contradict his Base being that weak unless you provide some evidence, but that would be taking this debate in a completely different direction.

Again, none of this stuff refutes the points I've been making.