Issues about Lucario and Darkrai's scaling.

[AguilaR101]

Supposedly this version is https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lucario_(Pokemon_7) of lucario is scaled off a Darkrai from a different continuity.

But the problem is that Darkrai in this continuity doesn't seem to have any tier 2 feats on his own to justify it, why does lucario get scaled as if he defeated the composite profile version of Darkrai?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

iirc we scale legendaries as having the same power across all continuities and incarnations

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

^

Unlike normal Pokémon, there's not a whole flock of Darkrai running around. Same goes for Mewtwo. Or Yveltal. This is the way we've been scaling Pokémon for quite some time now.

 

[AguilaR101]

What does their uniqueness in the setting have anything to do with their feats?

Mewtwos profile isn't composite and makes distinction between his forms and continuity in which they appear, no one is getting tier 4 from matching mewtwo unless they do it within the specific continuity in which he has that level of power.

I don't see the point of bringing up yveltal at all.

Darkrai's profile is clearly a composite one that compilates his best showings while ignoring the lower ends or lack of feats, why should this different version of darkrai get scaled to this profile and not be judged by his own feats within the continuity?

Edit: And to add, Darkrais even within the same continuities don't have the same level of power, case in point, you have Tobias' Darkrai in the same continuity where the one that fought Dialga and Palkia exists but no one would claim the former ought to have the same stats as the latter.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[AguilaR101]

bump for answers.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe if you change the title of the thread to specify which characters scaling you'll get more replies.

 

[AguilaR101]

Maybe if you change the title of the thread to specify which characters scaling you'll get more replies.

Done.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Good.

Personally im neutral because I want to see where this goes.

 

[AguilaR101]

Final bump.

 

[Dark649]

I think that Lucario should be scaled from the feats done by legendaries in the same story, rather to powerscale him from Pokepark or Movie Darkrai.

 

[KarmodF]

I personally agree, we shouldnt scale all Legendaries to their strongest versions to all his versions, It creates big Inconsistency (Pikachu defeating Latios, Sceptile defeating Darkrai, etc...) and even If these can be considered PIS, some Legendaries show that they really varie depending on the version.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Isn't there multiple darkrai in the anime?

Pretty sure there's 3, Movie, Tobias ' (can't be the same, it's shown in subsequent films that the darkrai follows around that one chick) and one in some filler episodes.

 

[KarmodF]

Isn't there multiple darkrai in the anime?

Pretty sure there's 3, Movie, Tobias ' (can't be the same, it's shown in subsequent films that the darkrai follows around that one chick) and one in some filler episodes.

Take into acount the massive amount of Manga versions and some others that have conection even between Media.

 

[Jared1111]

To be fair, i do agree with this to some extent. Take Red from Origins being considered Small Country Level because of the three birds and Mewtwo, but Mewtwo in that very same show wasn't shown to be all that powerful, and was nearly defeated by a Mega Charizard that showed nowhere near Country Level power. It just seems weird that we scale every Legendary across every continuity to be pretty much the same (or at least, use their normal versions as a basis) when we obviously don't do the same for other Pokemon. Especially when said incarnation can be vastly different in behavior and power level.

Now, in instances like with Rayquaza or Dialga, where they have the same feats in almost every incarnation, or they exist as one being in every incarnation, that's fair. But there needs to be some precedence for it, otherwise we get weird as **** scaling like Lucario being Universe+ level (when he showed no other feats that even suggest he was capable of this)

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Was arguing something like this with someone too.

He personally believes all Darkrai should be capable of the same feats unless there's evidence to show they vary in tier. He was using this to downplay since he argued Tobias's Darkrai should be the same as the one in the movie and his Darkrai lost to Sceptile, which made him believe any Darkrai being near the CT's level is inconsistent.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean.

Darkrai has like 6 feats, one of them being tier 6, and five being tier 2. If the problem is being consistent, it's consistent

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tobias's Darkrai. No, Tobias in general is walking PIS. Like, meteor and Arceus levels of PIS.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

As far as Darkrai goes, theres a universe+ one (fought dialga and palkia , movie, shown in almost eveey movie since within the credits following that chick, thus hasnt been caught), Tobias' (City-small country?) And random in galactic battles (probably the weakest, possibly the same one Tobias has).

Either way, universal darkrai is like a two time thing.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That's 3 different Darkrai within one continuity.

As far as anime go, the "not a bunch walking around" thing doesnt hold.

Same goes for Lugua, birds and the eon duo.

Shit like Rayquaza, creation, lake, ho-oh, and more are unique in that canon.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There's also another Darkrai in the anime. One showed up in XYZ.

Btw I'm neutral here because I honestly don't know.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Was there? That's 4 then, wuth only one being universal, and the rest being city or unquatifiable.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well don't forget PMD and Pokepark too.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I'm not forgetting them.

They're from a different continuity. I'm talking about strictly the anime.

 

[Schnee_One]

Where does the MHS+ feat for Lucario come from?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And tbf the XYZ Darkrai kinda doesn't fight anyone. It just gives nightmares to Pikachu, Squishy and Meowth.

So there's no way of knowing if its weak or strong.

 

[Kaltias]

@Gar

Scaled from Dusknoir

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

If all the otger darkrai in the anime are city+ with one exception, that one probably is too.

Also that Dysknoir is one if the strongest Pokemon in PMD, not exactly scalable, itd be like scaling Igglybuff to everything. Or tier 3 grovyle.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@J-Man Darkrai is >>>>>>>>> Dusknoir in PMD

And iirc Grovyle with the Time Gear is Tier 2

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yeah, in PMD.

Time gears don't give any boost in power at all though.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'm pretty sure it was agreed that PMD pokemon would be Tier 2, we were even supposed to make separate pages for them because of that.

 

[KarmodF]

I see that the arguing has diverge, we are still talking about different versions of Darkrai? Because we need to seriously talk about the difference, I mean Pokepark is one thing and then you have like 3 Different Darkrais in Anime and one is 2-C scaling of Arceus and the others? One is at the same level of Ash's Sceptile and the XYZ I think it was just a cameo because I havent found any relaiable source.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I see absolutely no issues with scaling Darkrai to Tier 2 considering that he is predominantly portrayed as being that level and has actually more Tier 2 feats than feats on any other level.


As for the rest, our Pokemon profiles are predominantly composite but not absolutely so.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Why though? Darkrai m10 is 2-C, other Darkrai in the anime aren't.

Just like how Pikachu ranges from building to city+. They aren't the sane one.

 

[Dark649]

Darkrai is 2-C only in m10, Pokepark and Mystery Dungeon, all the others are far lower.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Regardless of whether our pages are composite, I'm really unsure of scaling characters between continuities like this.

Manga Darkrai AFAIK has no actual Tier 2 feats.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I'm fine with composite ptofiles, but that doesnt mean the pokemon in universe are composited beyween all media though.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You can either believe that Tobias' Darkrai is so incompetently weak and / or that the movie Darkrai is so outrageously strong above the norm that one is Tier 7 - 6 and the other is Tier 2.

Alternatively, you can assume that one of these two is PAID or an inconsistency.

As Darkrai has five Tier 2 feats and only one Tier 6 feat, it's obviously which Tier is the consistent rating.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

You're clearly missing the point.

First off, Darkrai has a single 2-C feat in the anime, bringing up other canons,especially PMD is a no go, unless we want tier 2 everything.

In the anime Darkrai is a species, there is more than one, the power varies. If anything 2-C darkrai is the odd one out in the anime.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually just a thought. Lets assume just for a second that Tobias's Darkrai is 2-C.

If we're doing as what some say here is doing, making all Darkrai across the franchise 2-C via consistency, how come Ash beating him wouldnt be PIS in Tobias's favor? Tobias is a one time character anyway who literally never shows up again, so theres nothing proving its weaker than trainers pokemon. In addition, Ash, a semi-finals opponent, was barely able to defeat this darkrai. But somehow, someone in the finals got completely curbstomped by Darkrai. How would this not be PIS?