Is the world of void really infinite in size?

[AKM sama]

Yeah well, when a raw translation doesn't make sense, you'd wanna go with the official interpretation of it rather than a fan interpretation.

Boros's power was stated to destroy the planet in every translation I've seen till date, except for a guide that has much less priority than the canon material. That's why he is planet level. But that's completely irrelevant.

 

[Read_this_post]

If boros was stated to be able to outright destroy the planet in the japanese versions of the canon material then yes, he should be planet level. If the english dub interpreted it that way while the original japanese versions translate to him being a surface wiper, then he shouldnt.

The actual original translation is what the writers went with originally and should take priority over outside interpretations unless something else shows otherwise.

 

[Giygas3]

@Read the post If the void is eternal, and lasts forever, then all these terms can only make sense with passages of time. We know the void doesn't have time, so saying, "It lasts forever, and is eternal" makes little to no sense.

And from what I recall, the Japanese word that they used can also mean infinite in English, which is probably why the official subs used it, rather than using filled with Eternity.

 

[Read_this_post]

I dont think the word translates to infinite at all iirc. And im pretty sure the void not having time is a complete hyperbole and flowery language.

 

[Cropfist]

What? When did Boros become planet level again?

 

[Giygas3]

@Read the Post I recall from an earlier discussion, that Sera said Eternal and Infinite in Japanese can be used as synonyms (Though It has been a couple months, so I don't remember if she said that exactly.)

How's, "A void without time." Flowery language? Seems straight forward if you ask me, and it's not really hyperbole either. The only argument that could be perhaps made from that is the fact that characters still move in the World of Void. So maybe a contradiction?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@AKM Sama, Boros is only Multi-Continent level; and it comes from raw fan translations saying that he "Shaves the earth". Yes, there are fan translations that use star given the use of the word Hoshi. But Hoshi can mean planet or star. And actually, there are Three Japanese words that can mean Infinite. Muge is the main one, and that in turn has other alternate meanings. But there's also Hateshinai and Hateshiganai; and all three of those words have Endless, Boundless, Limitless, as alternate meanings. And the other two can also mean Immortal, Eternal, or Everlasting.

However, given how dictionaries and thesaurus also include words that are similar and not just words that literally mean the same thing, there are other complications. And I think Mugen is the only one of those three that seems universally accepted as the Japanese word for Infinite here.

 

[AKM sama]

Oh yeah I'm sorry. I forgot Boros's profile is not based on the anime which is considered to be planet level. But yes, the point I was making is about all translations had him at planet level or less, except one guide.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

That's not really true yet again. If the wording of the original doesn't give infinite, even if the structure isn't how English speakers perceive it, you still give respect to the original intentions. If we went by this logic, we'd not use "Yo tengo quince anos" as mentioned above, I feel like that example got neglected unnecessarily.

Boros was more or less just an example. The fact of it just being planet in other media is more evidence but even on a context basis, it'd still be wrong was the point because it's not true to the original Kanji. The Culex example is also an example here like I brought up. They mentioned him consuming time, being antimatter, etc. when the original version didn't even remotely say something similar. Translation teams are given liberties, sometimes to the point it's not even like the original version.

 

[Ionliosite]

Someone already gave an example of that above that how a language directly correlates in perception of another doesn't always work.

An example of Spanish with "Yo tengo quince a├▒os" was a pretty good one. In Spanish, this is seen as the correct version of expressing age. However, the literal English translation would be "I have 15 years". That doesn't make sense, right? Naturally you'd want to say, you are 15 years old. If we did it the English way naturally, it'd be "Yo soy quince a├▒os". That'd be seen as grammatically improper in Spanish though. Elaborated on here that you use the word "tener" over "ser" for example.

This really doesn't help that the Japanese is an Eastern language as well, meaning it's more likely to be derivative of rougher translations than even Spanish to English, despite those being closer to each other than English is to Japanese. I don't think you should trust the original translation so blindly either. A lot of production places will often change around wording they consider irrelevant at a whim or even rewrite it to where it's nothing like the original to begin with. Culex is a prime example of that in of itself. I think I remember there being a similar case where Boros had his power translated to destroying a star when the original Kanji just said planet as well, something that this site accepted was wrong with the Blu-Ray guide mind you.

Apologies for the mini bible, but I find it important that there isn't a potential ignorance on the variety of language, that's all.

This, everything in this. We need to apply this, it's stupid we're having false information on our profiles because of a mistranslation.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah well, when a raw translation doesn't make sense, you'd wanna go with the official interpretation of it rather than a fan interpretation.

This so-called "official interpretation" (which doesn't have Toriyama and/or Toei backing it, mind you) has already been proven wrong, so this argument is moot.

 

[AKM sama]

Well then ask Herms to translate it correctly. Because the fan translation that is being passed as the "correct" one makes no sense and can be interpreted differently by different people. I'm still against using fan interpretation on an unclear statement.

"This so-called "official interpretation" (which doesn't have Toriyama and/or Toei backing it, mind you)"

It comes directly from Toei. Toei Animation provides the official subs.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

This is a large appeal to authority. We don't need Herms to be the one to translate it for it to be correct. There being "other interpretations" isn't really relevant if none of them mention infinite. People have used different sites or translated themselves to get the term was eternal. Eternal Ôëá Infinite. The original Kanji doesn't remotely get infinite was the point.

It coming from Toei doesn't really mean it's the objective interpretation though sub wise. There have already been examples listed where either the translators have liberty or will change around the wording to be similar yet not the same.

 

[Ionliosite]

"This so-called "official interpretation" (which doesn't have Toriyama and/or Toei backing it, mind you)"

It comes directly from Toei. Toei Animation provides the official subs.

False. The subs are done by Crunchyroll.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sometimes, even the official translators aren't very competent at translating their works; addition to words meaning multiple things or various words in their language having completely different dictionary definitions than their English dictionary counterparts; such as Hoshi's literal definition just being celestial body(s) in general and not simply star or stars.

And yeah, subs are not officially made by the creators; because I doubt most Shounen Anime's actually used words like "****" and "Shit".

 

[Kepekley23]

Are the subs really done by crunchyroll? If I recall correctly, Steve Simmons was the one who created the official Japanese subs for the FUNimation DVD release of the original Dragon Ball Z anime run.

Anyway, I would like confirmation from a renowned translator like Herms, too.

 

[Ionliosite]

Does it matter if it was FUNimation isntead of Crunchyroll? It's not like we use FUNi's translation either, in fact, we enforce ignoring it and just going for what it says in Japanese.

 

[Kepekley23]

I said subs, not dub.

 

[Ionliosite]

I said subs, not dub.

If both are done by the same people, what's the difference?

 

[Kepekley23]

The dubs are done by the voice actors.

The subs are done by people who know how to translate the Japanese language.

There.

 

[Sera_EX]

The subs and dub are not done by the same people.

 

[Sera_EX]

And yeah, subs are not officially made by the creators; because I doubt most Shounen Anime's actually used words like "****" and "Shit".

They most certainly do.

 

[Ionliosite]

The subs and dub are not done by the same people.

I think that, but Kep both are done by FUNi.

 

[Dragomer]

None of it was proven 'wrong' though, there are just some people saying 'it's a mistranslation' but no proof, unless someone has a trusted source like Herms on this i don't see why i should take 'i swear it's a mistranslation' seriously.

It change nothing either way anyway.

 

[Ionliosite]

Eh, there is the translation from the original japanese translated to english:

´╝êÕñºþÑ×Õ«ÿ）ÚûïÕé¼ÒüÖÒéïÕá┤µëÇÒü» þäíÒü«þòîÒÇé
> Great Priest: The place where it held, is the Realm of Void.

´╝êµéƒþ®║) þäíÒü«þòî´╝ƒ
> Goku: Realm of Void?

´╝êÒâôÒâ½Òé╣）µÖéÚûôÒééþ®║ÚûôÒééÒü¬Òüä µ░©ÚüáÒü¿ÞÖÜþäíÒüáÒüæÒü½µ║ÇÒüíÒüƒõ©ûþòîÒüáÒÇé
> Beerus: A world without time and space, filled with only eternity and emptiness.

We literally provide the kanji and the translation for the whole thing. What else do you want?

 

[Sera_EX]

It wasn't a mistranslation but the statement is often misrepresented by vs debaters, go figure.

 

[Kepekley23]

I think that, but Kep both are done by FUNi.

So what?

 

[Kepekley23]

And yeah, subs are not officially made by the creators; because I doubt most Shounen Anime's actually used words like "****" and "Shit".

They most certainly do.

Some obscure or edgy shonen do, but stuff like Naruto and Dragon Ball certainly doesn't.

 

[Ionliosite]

I think that, but Kep both are done by FUNi.

So what?

So what what?

 

[Sera_EX]

Also, while I consider Hermes a trustworthy source, we don't need his word of mouth to verify anything really, especially when we have a native Japanese speaking user who is invested in Dragonball.

 

[Kepekley23]

The "so what" is because you are acting like the fact that both the dub and the sub being licensed by FUNi means they're equally unreliable.

@Sera

If she can verify this translation, that'd be good too.

 

[Dragomer]

Eh, there is the translation from the original japanese translated to english:

´╝êÕñºþÑ×Õ«ÿ）ÚûïÕé¼ÒüÖÒéïÕá┤µëÇÒü» þäíÒü«þòîÒÇé
> Great Priest: The place where it held, is the Realm of Void.

´╝êµéƒþ®║) þäíÒü«þòî´╝ƒ
> Goku: Realm of Void?

´╝êÒâôÒâ½Òé╣）µÖéÚûôÒééþ®║ÚûôÒééÒü¬Òüä µ░©ÚüáÒü¿ÞÖÜþäíÒüáÒüæÒü½µ║ÇÒüíÒüƒõ©ûþòîÒüáÒÇé
> Beerus: A world without time and space, filled with only eternity and emptiness.

We literally provide the kanji and the translation for the whole thing. What else do you want?

Anyone can write kanjis and go 'they actualy mean that', it doesn't mean they are right.

I already said what i want : a trusted source for the translation, we have some here, no ? it would be way better than an old reddit post and a youtube video as a source.

Also, while I consider Hermes a trustworthy source, we don't need his word of mouth to verify anything really
I used herms as an exemple for a trustworthy source, i didn't say we need his words in particular but we do need trusted source to verify translation, that's common sense.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Well this is getting interesting.

Following

 

[Ionliosite]

The "so what" is because you are acting like the fact that both the dub and the sub being licensed by FUNi means they're equally unreliable.

And they aren't because...?

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Well we can change it too

Shaking Eternal World of Void which was stated to have no space and time

 

[Ionliosite]

Well we can change it too

Shaking Eternal World of Void which was stated to have no space and time

That phrasing makes it sound like the feat is High 3-A, when it isn't.

 

[Dragomer]

Also i highly doubt it's accurate based on the simple fact it contradict itself, it say timeless and yet it also said it's filled with eternity ? sound like some bulshit machine translation.

 

[Shubham_Sonsurkar]

Well it would have been easier if only there were clear evidence of it's actual size

 

[Ionliosite]

Also i highly doubt it's accurate based on the simple fact it contradict itself, it say timeless and yet it also said it's filled with eternity ? sound like some bulshit machine translation.

How is that a contradiction at all?

 

[Ionliosite]

Well it would have been easier if only there were clear evidence of it's actual size

It's easy, just say "Shook the World of Void which was stated to have no space and time", and add it as support of Universal range (is the WoV even said to be universe sized?).