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Infinite Zamasu tier revision

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So I wanted to briefly touch up on soemthing regarding IZ and his tier. Currently he is considered Low 2-C for fusing with the universe, however there are multiple things that I think are being ignroed with this whole scene, and the context to in regards to cosmology.


If scans are needed for anything i stated, I can of course provide them, but as this info is mostly well know I will simply provide the expalniation here.


1. Even fusing with U7 would result in 2-C staus, this is due to the fact the other world is a seperate time space at least as big as the normal universe, arguably the same can be said about Demon realm to, and there are multiple pocket univeres as well such as kai realm, ROSAT etc to. So fusing even just with U7 would be 2-C.


Furthermore this is the reasoning for Zeno's tier now, nuking the other worlds (logically assumed) and living universes, as well as Mira by fusing demon realm of U7 and living Universe of U7, and one of Demigra's for controling space and time it is assumeed that is at least all U7 structure etc. And for those who would claim he can't get to other world or doesnt know about it that is clearly wrong since he already could before hand, and knew all about them being a kai as well, and has shown to cross space and time, and become it in this form, even to other sets of Universes.


2. It is implied Zamasu reached all the way to Zeno's palace since Goku is unsure if Zeno is still alive, and supreme kai says he can't die so would be, making it clear they both think Zamasu's influence has reached outside the Universes. This implies he fused with the entire future multiverse and not just U7, a feat that would be 2-C due to other worlds etc again.


3. Zeno feels he has to nuke the entire timeline to rid it of Zamasu, even his own palace was nuked, and he was left floating in nothing. We know he will nuke singular Unvierses if that is all thats needed, and purposfully left some intact in the past during a mass nuke even when annoyed. This agian implies Zamasu had spread to all parts of the future timeline if Zeno feels the need to nuke even his own home and universes he had spared before.


4. They need to leave in the time machine to escape Zeno, or Zamasu. If Zamasu were confined to just the living Unvierse they could easily just teleport to a neighboring Unvierse, or other world, or kai realm via Goku's IT, or Supreme kai's Kai Kai. They simply could not escape even with teleportation from either of them, meaning Zamasu most likely stretched across the range of their teleportation at least.


5. Zamasu legitamitly enters and starts to effect other multiverses as well, like the present one, he had already reached into effecting all the way out to Beerus castle, and was visible on Earth, so he was well on his way to taking over that timeline to.


So tbf Infinte Zamasu should be 2-C, even if it was just all U7 that would do it, and it is implied he crosses all 12 and Zeno's palace to, and is rapidly taking over more sets of Universes like the present one.
 
1. It's a possibility, but you'd have to prove that "universe" in the context implied all of the realms within U7

2. No, it's contradicted by the fact Zeno doesn't even know what is going on until he is summoned.

3. Zeno is established to be a character who overreacts to things that annoy him, so not evidence of his multi-universal bust being actually necessary to get rid of zamasu

4. Or they were trying to escape Zeno whom they knew could completely erase the timeline no matter which universe they went to

5. This was brought up in another thread, https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1118787 I considered it not enough evidence as it is reliant on outside factors such as Trunk's time travels.
 
About U7 being 2-C, wouldn't that upgrade almost all 3-A characters to 2-C?
 
AguilaR101 said:
No. it only gives them range but not the AP as space-time was not stated to be affected, only matter.
Ya, I figured.
 
If Infinite Zamasu gets upped to 2-C all the other DBS characters that were upped to low 2-C just recently will now be 2-C as well.
 
1. Why wouldn't it include all of U7? He clearly can cross space time so range is not in question, and knows of those realms in depth so that is not inquestion, and wants to be law and everything which logically would include those and gives motive to expand that far. When they refer to "Universe" they almost always include other world, kai realm etc. like in the Beerus battle goku and beerus were goign to destroy other world and kai realm to, and they refer to it all as "Universe" multiple times, and with Buu destroying the Unvierse over time it lumped kai realm and other world in with it to as part of the Universe, whenever they refer to erasing a Universe in super it is the entire macrocausm they refer to, when they refer to U10 they also include its other world and kai realm as part of the Universe, literally every incident of "Universe" refers to the whole structure, even the guides define each macrocausm as a "Universe" despite being made of multiple universe sized structures, and the living world is where the structure that is like our own universe exists, along with demon realm, ROSAT etc. Every time they mention or show Unviersal scale it includes the whole macrocausm. This would be no diffrent, we even assume it is all U7 for Demigra's space time statement, and also that other worlds are included for Zeno to, becouse it's logical to do so, not becouse they are shown on screen, as they are connected constructs and part of the Universes.


2. I dont see how that contradicts him not reaching zeno, besides nothing is to say he simply wasn't there yet is all, but the fact goku and shin think he could have reached there by now implies he was way ebyond the U7 boundaries. He didnt know who Zamasu was, same would be true if Zamasu were to reach him, he would still not get it. Fact is though Goku and Shin both thought Zeno could ahve been reached by then meaning Zamasu was likely far beyond Unviersal range by then if they felt that way.


3. The fact is he still felt the need to nuke everything, even his own home, and he origionally wanted to actually keep some universes alive even after a purge at the tournament, so we know he didnt want to nuke them or was indifferent to all of them.


4. Thats not the point, the point was they could ahve just ran from zamasu if he was confined to the living Unvierse, but they could not escape him and needed Zeno to help implying he had overtaken beyond their teleportation range.


5. Not much to say on that, it speaks for itself, and many others actually agree with it to.
 
1. Sounds substantial, I can agree with this, however I suggest you provide scans and evidence of the instances where this has ocurred so other people can analyze it and form their conclusions.

2. I think this point is mostly irrelevant compared to your first.

3. Are you sure you're not mixing up the Zenos here?, either way it's pretty hard to prove Zeno's action weren't an overreaction given his personality.

4. Sounds plausible as long as it can't be chalked up to PIS
 
1. I agree with this point. Whenever they say universe, they refer to all the realms that within it.

This was made clear during Goku vs Beerus. They said about destroying the universe and clearly the kaioshin realm was shown to be affected too. When Elder Kai was talking about Buu destroying the universe over time, he again included the kaioshin realm in it. The same thing happened in GT with Omega Shenron. Also, whenever Zeno erases a universe, he erases all of it. And when GP says that the universes shall be erased, he again means all of it.

Afaik, nobody in the series up until now has ever referred to only the living mortal universe when they say "universe".
 
The first point no. It was only the mortal universe universe until the kaioshin realm was included later on. Not from the start.

Second point, im fairly certain that is a non canon anime only feat for Buu and even then, only reason why the Kaioshin world was targeted was because of Goku and Vegeta being there. That and Bibadi and Instant Transmission

3rd point, non canon

4th point no too. Im fairly certain Zeno only destroyed a single univeree, not all of them. Even then, just because Zen'o decides to destroy all of them that time doesnt mean he does it every single time. He can pick and choose what and what not to destroy.
 
I agree with the first one, the second one is kinda debatable, but its also kinda plausable, the third, forth, and fifth IMO seem to be okay as well
 
Unite My Rice said:
The end result will just make scaling even worse.
Hmm I think it would be for the best if Jiren and the others don't scale to Infinite Zamasu because of one statement. I mean we need more proof. Its not like I don't like DB but more proof is needed.
 
It really depends on how we interpret universe we know universe 7 is both the living world and after life so it's possible when they say universe they mean that or they may only mean the living world that's what it depends on.
 
╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬× said:
Unite My Rice said:
The end result will just make scaling even worse.
Hmm I think it would be for the best if Jiren and the others don't scale to Infinite Zamasu because of one statement. I mean we need more proof. Its not like I don't like DB but more proof is needed.
But Jiren and the others do scale to IZ and a pretty strong case was made in favor of that which was agreed upon by almost everyone.

The real question here is, how do we treat the entirety of a DB universe. If 1 universe is treated as 2-C, then it is not really a big deal as it will be just a very low end of 2-C.
 
Yes. I meant 1 universe in DB has 2 different space times. So if it is 2-C, then it's not really a big deal because it's probably the lowest end of 2-C lol
 
I just want to point out that Demigra stated he controlled all of Space and Time. We only use the structure of Space and Time of U7 as a low ball.

Zamasu was not stated to have merged with anything other than the mortal universe. He would have expanded further had he not been stopped.
 
AKM sama said:
╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬× said:
Unite My Rice said:
The end result will just make scaling even worse.
Hmm I think it would be for the best if Jiren and the others don't scale to Infinite Zamasu because of one statement. I mean we need more proof. Its not like I don't like DB but more proof is needed.
But Jiren and the others do scale to IZ and a pretty strong case was made in favor of that which was agreed upon by almost everyone.
The real question here is, how do we treat the entirety of a DB universe. If 1 universe is treated as 2-C, then it is not really a big deal as it will be just a very low end of 2-C.
No they don't directly. They only scale because Shin said something vague. An Upgrade that big should have more value if we had more info than just a statement.
 
It was not vague. And it was supported by reactions of Beerus and other gods. You can find that thread where it was agreed upon in the staff discussion board though and bring this matter up with Matt or some other staff member.

But I am not willing to discuss it here and derail the thread anymore.
 
AKM sama said:
It was not vague. And it was supported by reactions of Beerus and other gods. You can find that thread where it was agreed upon in the staff discussion board though and bring this matter up with Matt or some other staff member.
But I am not willing to discuss it here and derail the thread anymore.
I have seen that thread. Yes its vague. He just said that his power feels different. Zeno faced IZ. Its not like the saiyans did anything to him. We don't know even Shin counts IZ or Merged Zamasu.

The reactions from Beerus and other gods are like that because among the mortals in the tournament Jiren is exceptional and they are facing the danger of erazure. Also, they have not seen IZ.

We also didn't have Gowasu's reaction to Jiren. Also, Shin's statements about MZ are considered hyperboles. But for Jiren they are not.
 
Unite My Rice said:
A proper evaluation of the context nullifies that entire argument.
"Proper" is subjective. I can say that back to you to nullify your argument. The thing is that neither of us is 100% sure or rather right. There are past statements in the show were it said for sure that character x is stronger than y or that a character is stronger than a form of another. Here that doesn't happen.
 
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