Vietthai96
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Bulma is supergenius and omniscient, she is the all-knowing one, she is above Gods, Angels, Grand Priest and Zen'o, she is omnipotent
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『INFINITE UNIVERSE IN DRAGON BALL SUPER』
- Thread starter LuffyRuffy46307
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Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,983
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Nah, let be real, because her statement is convenient in debunking infinite universe (which later get debunked in verse but peoples just ignored it), if she made a statement about universe is infinite, i bet people will jump on her saying that she is just a human who knowledge is limited and can't comprehend the universe
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Nah, bro. Bulma understands the whole size of the Universe, and that's the only reason she went to Zuno. It was to introduce a random, and have him tell us verbatim that Bulma's breasts had reduced in size.
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Nowhere is Bulma actually stated to be wrong in what she is saying from what I can tell.
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You think you can have infinite galaxies without infinite darkness that contains them? How is this a contradiction?
Having an 'edge 'does no damage to an infinite universe, as pointed out numerous times, not sure why you brought this up
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Literally Bulma didn’t even know where the center of the universe was
Hasty12345
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whilst I do think the universe is infinite, I do find it weird how the guides describe the universe as infinite (and by extension the afterlife via being parallel and half the macrocosm) but then uses finite descriptors in relation to the infinite universe to denote the size of other realms like the afterlife and kaioshin world (1/10th the macrocosm).
You’d think the guides would just say all 3 are infinite.
You’d think the guides would just say all 3 are infinite.
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I think that whether she is stated wrong or not her claim is still a knowledge claim and if multiple guidebooks contradicts her then she is wrong.
I mean if bulma said the universe is infinite and someone was trying to use it as an upgrade people would first question her knowledge of the universe. I'm also sure if they said "it is not stated that bulma is wrong hence she is right" that would not be evidence would it?
The conversation should be "Does bulma the person contradicting the infinite universe have sufficient knowledge on the universe?" I think that should determine this CRT
Killerdrone123
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Her knowledge on the size of the universe is limited she literally didn't even know the centre of the universe and was opting to go there to find super dragon balls by going there but Jaco literally corrected her saying that there are countless galaxies she ain't finding a centre that's why they decided to go to zuno for information on super dragon balls
Idk why bulma statement is taking precedence over multiple guides when she was corrected in the series itself and it is shown that her knowledge regarding that matter is limited
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you can play devils advocate and make the argument that the milky way in DB is canonically stated to have 200 billion stars
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The guides are secondary canon. The actual manga & anime is more important.
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Why is Bulma’s, whose actual amount of knowledge regarding the universe is ambiguous, singular statement being held up in such high regard here?
Jaco, you know the guy who’s a galactic patrolman, would likely be just as credible as Bulma in terms of cosmology knowledge if not more. Not only does he say there exists countless galaxies (albeit that doesn’t equate to infinite), he also states Bulma couldn’t even begin to fathom the scope of the universe, similar to the guidebook statement of the universe’s scale being beyond human comprehension, meaning her statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Jaco, you know the guy who’s a galactic patrolman, would likely be just as credible as Bulma in terms of cosmology knowledge if not more. Not only does he say there exists countless galaxies (albeit that doesn’t equate to infinite), he also states Bulma couldn’t even begin to fathom the scope of the universe, similar to the guidebook statement of the universe’s scale being beyond human comprehension, meaning her statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Is this a counter argument?
Killerdrone123
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The point is that the show itself corrected bulma regarding her info on universe having a centre and stuff meaning she is not to be taken in such high regards when it comes to knowing the size of the universe when she herself wasn't aware and has been proven wrong
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At what point does a sentiment reiterated several times in guidebooks not take precedent over a canonically refuted claim made by a character with limited knowledge?
I could see it if it were said once or twice, but this is asinine
I could see it if it were said once or twice, but this is asinine
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°The said main source (bulma), has been corrected in the source material itself multiple times by more reliable characters, about a topic they have no knowledge about
°The said secondary sources (huge in quantity) fixes the holes and answers the ambiguous comments made in the story, without creating inconsistencies and contradictions
I hope this answers it for you
Hasty12345
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at least several + 1 evidently
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A character that was straight up corrected too.
It is utterly ridiculous at this point
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- Thread starter
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There's also the fact that she's looking for a dragon with cosmic awareness to find out where the super spheres are, Bulma is refuted in every way, her opinion is not valid for the Universe.
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The more recent information would take higher priority as even if those statements in the guide were true when they were made (the Daizenshuu 4, Daizenshuu 7 and Chozenshuu 4 and Dragon Ball GT coming out before Dragon Ball Super), more recent statements can retcon them.
The guides would simply be outdated by new canon information that we're given.
The guides would simply be outdated by new canon information that we're given.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,983
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Saying the guide is outdated isn't counterargument, especially when the suppose newer canon statements from Bulma have been proven to be wrong directly in-verse, by the same canon, the main source material itself. The age of the guide is irrelevant
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I don't think from what's been shown here that Bulma has been proven to be wrong in the series itself.
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the funny thing is Bulma simply can't be right here, doesn't matter how smart she is.
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I mean, you're not really going to convince anyone. The thread has began with like 20 people agreeing and any counterpoint gets dog piled on by ten people saying the same thing. The voters 2-2 so you'd just have to get more mods for their input.
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saying, "i don't think" is not going to help anyone here
Bulma has been shown to be wrong for the reasons addressed
you could have provided like anti-feats/inconsistencies for the universe not being infinite or something
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Sure, I'm just clarifying so people don't accuse me of completely ignoring the opposition.
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Damage I mean this in all due respect, you are completely ignoring the opposition. Not in the way that you think though. You just straight up aren’t addressing the fact that yes while Bulma could be right in theory, she is still a very shaky ground to die on because her understanding is completely limited and not on the scope of someone like Jaco whom corrected her ignorance of the scale of the universe. She assumed that it was a simple matter to get to the center based on her knowledge of the “observable” universe. It’s the equivalent of someone inverse submitting to real world scientific studies and reason. Bulma herself has not studied or traveled the universe outside of Namek and Jupiter. JACO has traversed the universe and essentially told her that she was naive to think that getting to a center of the universe was viably possible due to the countless galaxies and extreme size. I don’t understand why this is such a hill to die on, had it been Whis or Jaco himself sure but this is coming from a character whom wouldn’t even have that knowledge to begin with nor was even sure of the ins and outs of the universe
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Nowhere does the phrase "observable Universe" crop up in the series or is given as a reason for her to be wrong.
That just seems like an interpretation invented by fans to explain why Bulma could be wrong without actually proving that she is.
Nowhere does Jaco say that Bulma is wrong about them being on the edge of the Universe; he just expresses doubt at being able to get to the center of the Universe.
Not being convinced by the other side's arguments doesn't mean someone is ignoring the other side completely.
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Damage she literally calls it the Observable Universe in the manga scan
AizenBankai09
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I can't keep up with everything, so I'm gonna get straight to the point
1. Bulma states that the universe has an edge (Manga), and then later on Jaco confirms that she's absolutely wrong.
People are gonna argue that bulma is smarter than Jaco, but has bulma been working as a patrol in outer space? She barely made a time machine that WASN'T even hers but her future self.
2.Same thing happened in the anime and Jaco responded with the following.
3.Herms then posted a post confirming this and it was after super was finished, he didn't say "Oh that doesn't apply to super, that's dbz exclusive only"
Lastly, the previous statements doesn't contradict anything infact all the visual bullshits have been rejected in luffy's previous thread if I'm not mistaken so what the hell are we even arguing about?
1. Bulma states that the universe has an edge (Manga), and then later on Jaco confirms that she's absolutely wrong.
People are gonna argue that bulma is smarter than Jaco, but has bulma been working as a patrol in outer space? She barely made a time machine that WASN'T even hers but her future self.
2.Same thing happened in the anime and Jaco responded with the following.
3.Herms then posted a post confirming this and it was after super was finished, he didn't say "Oh that doesn't apply to super, that's dbz exclusive only"
Lastly, the previous statements doesn't contradict anything infact all the visual bullshits have been rejected in luffy's previous thread if I'm not mistaken so what the hell are we even arguing about?
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Hasty12345
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If you argue infinite can have an edge, why are you getting hung up on the Bulma point?
Damage is unironically right about this one, Jaco doesn’t remotely correct Bulma on her assertion they’re in the edge of the universe, he thinks she’s stupid because they have no hope on finding the centre, but he implicitly agrees there is a centre. Arguing this when you assert that mathematically it doesn’t matter is a waste of energy.
Damage is unironically right about this one, Jaco doesn’t remotely correct Bulma on her assertion they’re in the edge of the universe, he thinks she’s stupid because they have no hope on finding the centre, but he implicitly agrees there is a centre. Arguing this when you assert that mathematically it doesn’t matter is a waste of energy.
AizenBankai09
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Does she have knowledge of the existence of other space-time continuums? Then she's referring to the observable universe.
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Think about what you're saying, please. How can she be asserting that she's (and by extension the others) are at the edge of the Observable Universe? By definition the observer is at the center of the Observable Universe.
That was the very first point I raised in the thread.
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- Thread starter
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Bulma's point is so interesting that when Jaco asks how many galaxies there are in the universe she can't answer, then Jaco resorts to talking to the omniscient Zuno (who in turn has more knowledge than both of them) and in the anime she is even refuted by Jaco and Sheron who has cosmic awareness (he says the universe is too huge and he can't find the dragon spheres), i'm really trying to understand Damage's point, but he is denying that Bulma is wrong and that she is an omniscient character here, we know that in fact the earth is on the edge of a galaxy and not on the edge of a universe, we saw this huge galaxy in the middle of the representation of Universe 7 that is, Bulma has no opinion about the Universe and has no knowledge about it.
AizenBankai09
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Okay, I get what you're saying, but just to clarify yeah, the observer is technically at the center of their own observable universe. But I think they meant the farthest point they could see, not literally the "edge" It's more about the limit of what’s observable, not a physical spot they're standing on. It has to be a poor choice of words
Because if you think about it, If the universe is really infinite, the observable universe can still have an "edge" But it’s not a real boundary—it's just the farthest we can see because light only travels so fast and the universe has only been around for so long. So, we can only see up to a certain point, and that’s what people call the "edge" beyond that, we just can’t see yet.
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how does infinite darkness contradict infinite galaxies
no offense but your disagreement stems from misunderstandings
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Ngl but having an edge does not stop something from being infinite.
How the **** can infinite speed characters having that speed if infinity can't have an edge?
How the **** can infinite speed characters having that speed if infinity can't have an edge?
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